So how does this explain-away my triple-connection DP monitor setup?
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Do two external monitors require both Thunderbolt ports or can a hub be used for two monitors on same Thunderbolt port?
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So how does this explain-away my triple-connection DP monitor setup?
I meant there's no such thing as a Thunderbolt to DisplayPort cable.
All Thunderbolt to DisplayPort cables are actually USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode to DisplayPort cables.
I just made sure to purchase reputable USB-C -> dP (bi-directional) cables, when I did.
What's the real friction between TB4 and USD4?
What's the real friction between TB4 and USD4?
TLDNR: TB4 is USB4 that has been certified by Intel and licensed to use the TB4 brand - which requires support for a bunch of "optional" parts of the USB4 & related standards.
USB4 took the high-speed data protocol from Thunderbolt 3 and added support for hubs with multiple downstream TB/USB4 ports and the ability to "tunnel" USB 3.x data from the host in much the same way as TB3 carries PCIe and DisplayPort data. However many parts of the standard are "optional" - including some legacy Thunderbolt backward compatibility, 40Gbps mode, power delivery past 7.5W and support for more than one display over USB4/TB.
TB4 is "just" USB4 with an Intel certification/branding scheme that requires more of the options to be supported by TB4-branded devices, such as 40Gbps mode, 15W minumum power, support for at least 2 displays via Thunderbolt.
That's why on some M1/M2/M3 MacBooks the ports are branded "Thunderbolt/USB4" rather than TB4 - they support all of the hub/USB tunneling stuff from USB4 but fall short of the TB4 requirement to support at least 2 external displays via TB. The M2 MacBook Air had "Thunderbolt/USB4" ports while the M2 Mini - with essentially the same system-on-a-chip - had "Thunderbolt 4" ports - AFAIK that was simply because (lacking an internal display) it could offer 2 external displays over TB.
As far as I know, TB5 works the same way - the USB4v2 standard defines the new features (faster speeds/PCIe v4 support) and TB5 is an Intel-certified branding for USB4v2 devices that requires higher minimum specs.
So, "TB4" is just a more stringent standardisation?
The de'jour ASMedia "Bouncer" chip designs seem to allow more patrons to attend the Party; but, not all attendees want to follow the rules...
I don't mind more stringent guidelines, yet I do mind when the enforcement is basically designed to be lax.
IAFAIK TB4 refers to the same standards as USB4/USB 3.2/USB-PD/USB-C but with many of the optional parts of the USB standards made compulsory.
I don't think TB4 certification is "more stringent" than USB-IF certification... but I believe that USB-IF certification is optional whereas TB branded devices have to be certified.
I don't think there's a simple answer to any question about USB4/TB4
- it's a huge mess of different protocols, different options and inconsistent naming standards. Even the minimum features depend on whether it's a host port, a hub/dock, a charging port....Well, the USB-IF is nonprofit. I guess Intel can afford better lawyers to enforce Thunderbolt branding and crack down on fakes.
USB4 stuff that is USB-IF certified should be just as standards-compliant as TB4, you just need to check more carefully which features it supports.
It's just that USB branding leaves a grey area for legitimate but non-certified products (which may be perfectly good), whereas Thunderbolt-branded products are either certified or outright fake (and fakes are almost certainly trash).
Until the invention of USB-C, this used to be the truth:
(xkcd.com)
Then some genius said "That didn't work, so let's make one universal connector that can support all of those standards!"
So there are now 32768 (2^15) different standards.
This still applies. Try buying a Thunderbolt hub and hope you don’t get a USB-C hub instead.Until the invention of USB-C, this used to be the truth:
(xkcd.com)
Then some genius said "That didn't work, so let's make one universal connector that can support all of those standards!"
So there are now 32768 (2^15) different standards.
Guys... My head will explode, all these options, standards and non working solutions...
After reading this thread and a zillion more information about this I have decided that I want DisplayPort, not HDMI. The Dell P2715Q supports both, so DP should be a better option, right?
Will the OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock work, with one MiniDisplayPort cable and one USB-C to DisplayPort cable?
Or is it smarter to keep my current USB-C dock and buy a separate Dual DP Adapter?
🤪🤯
After reading this thread and a zillion more information about this I have decided that I want DisplayPort, not HDMI. The Dell P2715Q supports both, so DP should be a better option, right?
Will the OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock work, with one MiniDisplayPort cable and one USB-C to DisplayPort cable?
Or is it smarter to keep my current USB-C dock and buy a separate Dual DP Adapter?
🤪🤯
Question not "smarter" but preference. You want only one cable connected to MBA which support 2x displays, you need TB dock. The specs of the OWC TB3 dock say it supports 2x 4K 60Hz displays
- Thunderbolt 3: Up to 5K @ 60Hz via a native Thunderbolt 3 display or 4K @ 60Hz via a Thunderbolt display or a USB-C display adapter
- Mini DisplayPort 1.2: Up to 4K @ 60Hz
Yes. MBP M4 support up to two external displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt. You will use both downstream TB ports on the dock, one for each ASD.
If you have a MacBook Pro with the regular M4 processor you only have Thunderbolt 4 and don't need to pay for a Thunderbolt 5 dock or cable.
I have used both the DP, and the HDMI, ports on my P2715Q's to the same subjective effect.
Can't really say that one port is better than the other.
The P2715Q's are just 'displays', after-all....
DP would be better if the display supported 10bpc but I don't think the P2715Q does support 10bpc.
The DisplayPort EDID say 8 bits per channel. The HDMI EDID does not mention deep color.
If you are using DP, you may need to disable MST in the display menu to get 4K60 instead of just 4K30.
I can vouch that WavLink WL-UTD21H is fully functional with a pair of 4K monitors via DisplayPort attached to Intel, M1 or M3 Macs via Thunderbolt. The unit also provides a pair of DisplayPort to HDMI adapters (hence you can use it with HDMI monitors).
DisplayPort is a better option than HDMI, since the monitor can tell the computer that it is on standby or turned on, or vice versa. Hence, if you have a pair of monitors attached, you can turn one or both off, and macOS will recognize that. Hence, you won't have a "phantom display" that's common when you use HDMI.
Not every display seems to support this, though, but my LG will even if connected via HDMI, if I change the display to another input.