Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues

[DMann]

I won't include design costs because you'll never figure them out and they are so diminished by the time they sell a few million devices to be negligible (the OS already existed, the technology already existed and it's just a big iPod Touch).

So, let's just down-play the design costs then, since we have no idea how sizable those figures actually are.

While we're at it, let's also play down the advertising, R&D, and the beta-testing costs as well.

FYI, the OS running on the iPad is significantly more refined, polished, and responsive than that of the iPhone/iPod Touch, in case you haven't noticed.

Their price is $499 minimum. Their profit is ~200%, ....

Uh huh.

Maybe he can outsource defense to Communist China while he's at it.

Though, China's economic practices are about as capitalistic as they come.

At least Dell still assembles their desktop computers in the USA.

And it shows.

 

[iSheep]

This thread is now a shed...'cuz it's full of tools.

LOL!

 

[sisarge]

Pipe down, Adobe.

Re the possible reason behind Apple banning Flash from creating apps being multi-tasking. Can't believe that. True that the OS wouldn't have control over various APIs - which the new multitasking would require - but if any of these apps utilised APIs which the OS needed to control but couldn't, then surely Apple just would spot this and disallow the App to be published through the app store until the feature in question was either resolved or removed. Problem solved. It would only be those who insist on jail-breaking their phones who would suffer

So, I think Apple are wrong in that respect. But....

Adobe bitching and moaning about this is plain childish. Some companies are already doing this for other programming languages and will now sink completely, whereas Adobe just lose ONE feature of a huge suite of products. They will survive. Apple are under no obligation to allow Flash (or Flash in disguise) to run under their system. The success of Apple is the tidy, uncluttered way in which their products not only run, but function. Flash, as Steve Jobs rightly points out, is a buggy mess. Likewise.. html, css and javascript can be messy - hence no other browser but Safari.

Apple control what goes on inside my iPhone, and I like that.

Edit: Opera has been approved - my mistake. Please resist flaming me, I'm sensitive.

 

[natlinxz]

The two companies clearly hate each other, I don't know why they keep "supporting" each other. I'm glad Apple is trying to kill flash though, even after ten years Flash for Mac performs like a closed beta.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Like it or not, we are on the verge of Adobe Systems suing Apple. That's on top of the possibility that the Department of Justice in the USA and the European Union antitrust authorities looking at the stipulations in the iPhone OS 4.0 SDK to see if there are any possible violations of antitrust laws in regards to eliminating competition due to Apple forcing everyone to use only Apple's programming tools to write iPhone 4.0 OS apps.

 

[sisarge]

Like it or not, we are on the verge of Adobe Systems suing Apple. That's on top of the possibility that the Department of Justice in the USA and the European Union antitrust authorities looking at the stipulations in the iPhone OS 4.0 SDK to see if there are any possible violations of antitrust laws in regards to eliminating competition due to Apple forcing everyone to use only Apple's programming tools to write iPhone 4.0 OS apps.

Apple aren't saying that everyone must use their tools to create apps. Afterall, you can code an app using a text editor. They're simply saying that you must use the correct coding language and not cross-compile - which is fair if you ask me.

As far as Apple are concerned, exporting Flash as an iPhone app is like Adobe putting an old man in a diaper and sending the old fella to play with Apple's kids. Fair. Enough!

 

[cmaier]

Like it or not, we are on the verge of Adobe Systems suing Apple. That's on top of the possibility that the Department of Justice in the USA and the European Union antitrust authorities looking at the stipulations in the iPhone OS 4.0 SDK to see if there are any possible violations of antitrust laws in regards to eliminating competition due to Apple forcing everyone to use only Apple's programming tools to write iPhone 4.0 OS apps.

You're a funny guy.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

So, let's just down-play the design costs then, since we have no idea how sizable those figures actually are.

While we're at it, let's also play down the advertising, R&D, and the beta-testing costs as well.

How about you compare similar products by Apple to other companies and compare their manufacturing price to sale price and you'll have a reasonably fair comparison without having to know every detail. The simple fact is that Apple's profit margins are far far higher than anyone else in the industry. In part, this is because they have no direct hardware competitors for their OS. Now Apple wants to play "standards games" with companies like Adobe when Apple itself is guilty of pushing its own propriety standards all the time (Apple Lossless, Quicktime, Fairplay) and not playing nice with them either (e.g. not licensing Fairplay, which is ironic given its name)

FYI, the OS running on the iPad is significantly more refined, polished, and responsive than that of the iPhone/iPod Touch, in case you haven't noticed.

Well someone once said that you can polish a turd all you want, but it's still a turd. Some of us would rather have a full computer, not a "polished" iPod Touch. It's typical Apple hardware too. Leave out the camera and USB ports, card readers, etc. and then add them in over the next three years to screw over the early adopters and pretend they made improvements that they could have had since Day 1 and then drop support for the 1st generation model less than 3 years from now.

I have a Dell Mini 10V with more power, more space, more ram and it runs the full version of Snow Leopard and cost nearly half the price and Dell still made a profit on the hardware.

Though, China's economic practices are about as capitalistic as they come.

Yes, that's a good excuse for their abysmal record of human rights (have to love Tienanmen Square), huge numbers of yearly executions (probably for just speaking their minds) and Communist government (last time I checked, Communism was the enemy of the United States of America; but it's the Capitalists' friend. Yet I cannot buy a simple Cuban cigar from a tiny little island under the banner of evil Communists.... WTF!?

And it shows.

Yes, Chinese goods are SO much better quality. I remember back when products used to last years that now last months. Coincidence that they are now made in China???

 

[Journojulz]

The simple fact is that Apple's profit margins are far far higher than anyone else in the industry.

Nicer to look at and use too.

Funny that.

Well someone once said that you can polish a turd all you want, but it's still a turd. Some of us would rather have a full computer, not a "polished" iPod Touch.

Before we do the turd calling - lets have a play on the other tablets over the next year and see what lies beneath the substance?

'Are they any good for most people to use to do the things most people want to use these things for' is a good benchmark.

It's typical Apple hardware too. Leave out the camera and USB ports, card readers, etc.

Spend your efforts on getting the basics right, then add the icing.

Look at the iPad's competition. Look at it. Real hard.

 

[Slip Jigs]

Isn't this all really a non--issue?

Create the app in Flash and compile. Use thrid party tool to decompile, bring it into the Apple approved SDK whatever, and export. Submit to app store. Get rejected because it's just another farting app.

What's the big deal?

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Isn't this all really a non--issue?

Create the app in Flash and compile. Use thrid party tool to decompile, bring it into the Apple approved SDK whatever, and export. Submit to app store. Get rejected because it's just another farting app.

What's the big deal?

Very sneaky, sir.

Well someone once said that you can polish a turd all you want, but it's still a turd. Some of us would rather have a full computer, not a "polished" iPod Touch.

You are in luck! Apple also sells computers and iPods, so you can buy a full computer, or an iPod touch if you want!

At least Dell still assembles their desktop computers in the USA.

Dell manfactures stuff wherever it can, as cheap as it can in places like Malaysia, China, and India.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Edit - whoops double post. sorry

 

[cumanzor]

Spend your efforts on getting the basics right, then add the icing.

Look at the iPad's competition. Look at it. Real hard.

What?

Anyways, the iPad won't get SD reader/USB ports without expensive add ons. The icing here, is the iPhone OS4.0 (bonus points if jailbroken)

 

[DMann]

How about you compare similar products by Apple to other companies and compare their manufacturing price to sale price and you'll have a reasonably fair comparison without having to know every detail. The simple fact is that Apple's profit margins are far far higher than anyone else in the industry.

Consumers appear to value exceptional user experience, imagine that.

Now Apple wants to play "standards games" with companies like Adobe when Apple itself is guilty of pushing its own propriety standards all the time (Apple Lossless, Quicktime, Fairplay) and not playing nice with them either (e.g. not licensing Fairplay, which is ironic given its name)

As does MS, what's your point?

Well someone once said that you can polish a turd all you want, but it's still a turd. Some of us would rather have a full computer, not a "polished" iPod Touch. It's typical Apple hardware too. Leave out the camera and USB ports, card readers, etc. and then add them in over the next three years to screw over the early adopters and pretend they made improvements that they could have had since Day 1 and then drop support for the 1st generation model less than 3 years from now.

I would hardly consider OS X Mobile a turd, in the first place. The iPad, Gen 1, is an introductory tablet primarily designed for media content, books, web surfing, e-mail, and other medium level tasks.

In regard to web browsing, and overall responsiveness, it outperforms octa-core workstations. For what it does, nothing else matches it.

I have a Dell Mini 10V with more power, more space, more ram and it runs the full version of Snow Leopard and cost nearly half the price and Dell still made a profit on the hardware.

Hardly - the only significant profit Dell makes is when units are sold at a very high volume - your contribution amounts to a pittance.

Yes, that's a good excuse for their abysmal record of human rights (have to love Tienanmen Square), huge numbers of yearly executions (probably for just speaking their minds) and Communist government (last time I checked, Communism was the enemy of the United States of America; but it's the Capitalists' friend. Yet I cannot buy a simple Cuban cigar from a tiny little island under the banner of evil Communists.... WTF!?

Well, at least they show up to work, on time, work a full day, sober, and don't tend to flake out on Fridays and Mondays.

Coincidence that they are now made in China???

As are Dells.

 

[Lazrhog]

The way I see it, if Adobes Flash CS5 just produced an entire xcode project with all the source code needed to compile under xcode and produce an App, there wouldn't be a problem ......

.... however, Adobe don't want to give up all their proprietary rendering code and Flash scheduling etc. That is the REAL problem. The ball is in Adobes court, not Apples as far as I am concerned. If Adobe do launch a law suit, then it is doomed to failure.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

You are in luck! Apple also sells computers and iPods, so you can buy a full computer, or an iPod touch if you want!

Nothing in the 10" size range other than the iPad. That's why I bought a Dell Netbook and hacked it for OSX instead. I'm very happy with it, especially for $350.

Dell manfactures stuff wherever it can, as cheap as it can in places like Malaysia, China, and India.

LOL. Where do you think Apple manufactures its equipment? CHINA buddy.

 

[Great Dave]

Creative Professionals switching to PC?

All the NAPP guys (and gals) seemed to use Macs exclusively. Recently though most are now using PCs.

Even the latest CS5 seminar, there was only one guy - Corey Baker using a MacBook Pro. All the rest had PCs.

And I know Bert Monroy had mentioned that he has gone to PC.

Also, Creative Cow mag used to be all about Apple. Now in the current issue, you can clearly see the use of PCs instead.

I doubt this is just because of the fallout from Apple's exclusion of Flash on the iPhone, but it just seems weird for many of Apple loyal to jump over to PC.

Also, my neighbor recently got a Dell and it was made in the USA. Even some of their laptops are assembled in the USA.

I think the last thing that I bought from Apple that was made in the USA was a Quicksilver like 10 years ago. I can't say I remember having an Apple product since then made or assembled in the USA, as far as I can recall they are all from China.

 

[Darkroom]

I doubt this is just because of the fallout from Apple's exclusion of Flash on the iPhone, but it just seems weird for many of Apple loyal to jump over to PC.

i too have noticed this trend. it's not so strange after you understand that creative professionals are more loyal to their own work and workflow than to apple or mac os x. apple hasn't catered visual artists for years.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Nothing in the 10" size range other than the iPad. That's why I bought a Dell Netbook and hacked it for OSX instead. I'm very happy with it, especially for $350.

Damn, that's quite a bit less than an iPad. Do you use it for anything above web browsing? Does photoshop run well?

Actually, scratch that-- photoshop doesn't really run well on my Octo 2.8 with 8 GB ram.

LOL. Where do you think Apple manufactures its equipment? CHINA buddy.

Yes, I know. You mentioned before that Dell assembles some stuff in the USA.

At least Dell still assembles their desktop computers in the USA.

I didn't think Dell had any US manufacturing anymore - or they are closing the last of them down this year. I think they have one in Ireland, IIRC, but even then, I heard that's moving out into eastern Europe.

I think that might have something to do with the inconsistent stories of dell quality. We had some crappy ones in the office, and some that have run almost non-stop for years. My old dell workstation still flies. THen again, I think the precisions and servers were made in Austin, TX instead of Mexico or India. They might all be outside of the US now.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Damn, that's quite a bit less than an iPad. Do you use it for anything above web browsing? Does photoshop run well?

I've never tried Photoshop on it. I've done most of my photo editing with my PowerMac (upgraded 2001 machine) running CS3. It runs fine. Given the Netbook is slower than the PowerMac, I'd imagine it'd be a bit slower. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you'd qualify as "above" web browsing. I've run a lot of different applications on it and even several non-demanding games (World of Goo, Planet Mule, ScummVT, Mame, etc.) It's a nice little machine for the price (starts at $250, which is less than many iPod Touch models) with 160GB of hard drive space, 1GB ram, etc. Mine has 802.11N on it and it works fine with both my N networks. More importantly, I'm not worried about taking it on vacations, etc. I always think twice about doing that with my 15" MBP, given its high cost.