Foxconn Ramping Up iPad Production at New Chengdu Factory

[Eraserhead]

I'm so sick of hearing this "China" talk everywhere.

Can't we build stuff over here in the U.S anymore. It really makes me sick.

Are you guys prepared to do the job for $150/month? If not, then they'll continue to be made elsewhere.

made in china and broke in a week.

The Chinese are perfectly capable of making high quality products if you pay enough money for them. For example the Chinese trains are much better constructed than most British trains.

a lot of the made in europe crap is made by imported chinese workers.

I very much doubt it. Most EU countries have laws stopping unskilled labourers moving to the EU.

 

[the vj]

I can not help thinking of Steve Balmer

... he always making fun of Apple and their products, when he was asked about the iPhone was a classic.

Now the iPad was supposed to be a device for fun and is taking over the world beyond anybody's expectations, the iPad is just a fun toy that may be even useful.

 

[nylon]

In the past, when Japan had started to industrialize, Japanese products were considered to be of poor quality. 40 years later Japanese products are some of the best and most innovative in the world. Expect the same to happen with Chinese products.

 

[jayducharme]

I would hold off buying one this late in the game if I already didn't have one. Since the newer one will probably be out early next year.

That's my thought as well. I'm wondering why production is ramping up for a model that most likely will be discontinued in a few months. I guess the holiday season is the reason....

 

[acidfast7]

my inlaws are always going about how european quality is so good compared to US and china.

they went on vacation to france and bought my son a boat. made in china and broke in a week. a lot of the made in europe crap is made by imported chinese workers. and my grohe faucets aren't made in germany either

as for wal mart i've bought stuff there that is much better made than some of the crap i have from the snobby/elite stores

I'm not sure what you're implying. Most of the stuff that I've seen Made in Germany is quite high quality, as is/was most of the stuff Made in the USA.

The difference is that the Germans realized this and are willing to pay a premium for that quality difference and I don't think that most Americans are.

It also breaks down by market segment. Germans don't spend much money of food (must be the least in the EU ... only slightly more than Americans maybe +25-35% more) or clothing (similar to Americans +25-35% more) but in housing (2-3x) / autos (2-3x) / furniture(2-3x) and other durable goods that really spend ... and that's where Americans don't spend, and that's why the manufacturing got offshored.

If Americans really were willing to pay a "quality" premium than the manufacturing would move back (it didn't really leave Germany.)

I understand that this is an Apple forum and most people (including me ... I buy all my students iMacs and MBPs for them when they start a PhD ... less headaches and maintenance, so money is actually saved when they cost 200€/day) are willing to pay a premium for "perceived" quality but most people won't ... and that's why Apple's market share will remain low and profit/machine will remain high.

.



The Chinese are perfectly capable of making high quality products if you pay enough money for them. For example the Chinese trains are much better constructed than most British trains.

That's because they "bought" the tech via tech transfer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_high_speed_rail

Siemens (Germany) refused to lower their price for the tech transfer at the beginning but finally relented.

 

[DELLsFan]

I'm so sick of hearing this "China" talk everywhere.

Can't we build stuff over here in the U.S anymore. It really makes me sick.

Keep voting environmental Marxist, anti-business liberal, pro-union, socialist, tax-cheating, and tax raising ideologues in office, and we'll eventually run every business off shore and THEN you can cry. Until then, wake up and start studying history and economics.

That hope and change won't buy a happy meal much longer.

 

[Yvan256]

My neighbor wanted to get on the 'net, so a friend of hers gave her a "good computer" (their words, not mine).

But it's a really old PC... Pentium II 500 MHz, 384 MB RAM, 15 GB hard drive. I wanted to install Ubuntu Netbook Edition, which is designed to focus on internet tasks, but even a 250$ netbook has better specifications than that old PC. But she's old and a 10-11" display is too small for her so netbooks are not an option, even if they were free.

Meanwhile, her "free PC" aside, she bought a desk and a chair for nearly half the price of an iPad. Things she would not have needed with the iPad.

Once they double the RAM and add a front camera for FaceTime, it's going to be what I will suggest to people who want to "get on the Internet". People with zero knowledge of computers, etc. I couldn't suggest a first-generation iPad at that price they're at (500$ is still a lot of money), this close to an upgrade.

 

[lowbatteries]

I'm so sick of hearing this "China" talk everywhere.

Can't we build stuff over here in the U.S anymore. It really makes me sick.

Yes, lets all hope our children work on assembly lines instead of as engineers or designers.

I never really got the whole fret about all the crappy jobs going overseas. Good riddance. Invest in education and let the rest of the world be the factory that builds our ideas.

 

[lowbatteries]

My neighbor wanted to get on the 'net, so a friend of hers gave her a "good computer" (their words, not mine).

But it's a really old PC... Pentium II 500 MHz, 384 MB RAM, 15 GB hard drive. I wanted to install Ubuntu Netbook Edition, which is designed to focus on internet tasks, but even a 250$ netbook has better specifications than that old PC. But she's old and a 10-11" display is too small for her so netbooks are not an option, even if they were free.

Meanwhile, her "free PC" aside, she bought a desk and a chair for nearly half the price of an iPad. Things she would not have needed with the iPad.

Once they double the RAM and add a front camera for FaceTime, it's going to be what I will suggest to people who want to "get on the Internet". People with zero knowledge of computers, etc. I couldn't suggest a first-generation iPad at that price they're at (500$ is still a lot of money), this close to an upgrade.

My dad is in this group. Has never sent an email, never browsed by himself. If it was in my price range for gifts this Christmas, I would buy him the 3G model and a few months of service. Put the Facebook, Email, Safari, and FaceTime icons on the front page and, to him, it really would be "magical". Especially FaceTime.

To go from never-used-the-internet to having the entire internet in a 10-inch solid piece of glass and metal on your lap, that is amazing.

 

[kevingaffney]

Yes, lets all hope our children work on assembly lines instead of as engineers or designers.

I never really got the whole fret about all the crappy jobs going overseas. Good riddance. Invest in education and let the rest of the world be the factory that builds our ideas.

Better working on assembly lines than not at all and the sooner some people drop their standards a little for the next few years the better

 

[wizard]

It is a question of cost.

I'm not sure what you're implying. Most of the stuff that I've seen Made in Germany is quite high quality, as is/was most of the stuff Made in the USA.

The problem is cost. The fact is you can get very high quality items from Taiwan or China and pay pennies on the dollar for those items. Ultimately I disagree with your stance that German companies are focused on high quality any more than any other company any where in the world. Germany certainly has some more mature industries but mature does not imply high quality.

The difference is that the Germans realized this and are willing to pay a premium for that quality difference and I don't think that most Americans are.

They may be willing to pay the extra scratch for what they see as higher quality but there is nothing to convince me that there is in fact higher quality there.

It also breaks down by market segment. Germans don't spend much money of food (must be the least in the EU ... only slightly more than Americans maybe +25-35% more) or clothing (similar to Americans +25-35% more) but in housing (2-3x) / autos (2-3x) / furniture(2-3x) and other durable goods that really spend ... and that's where Americans don't spend, and that's why the manufacturing got offshored.

No I don't see this either. Spending big money on housing, autos or even furniture is a waste of money if it doesn't enhance your life in a significant manner. Americans in particular do not aspire to buying for status for the most part. Given a set income stream there are far better things to spend your money on that transportation and housing.

If Americans really were willing to pay a "quality" premium than the manufacturing would move back (it didn't really leave Germany.)

How many decent computers are manufactured in Germany? Further nobody in their right mind is willing to slap a another $500 on an Apple PC purchase just so they have a made in the USA label. If German was an open market and not a protected one there would be a complete reversal of your thinking.

I understand that this is an Apple forum and most people (including me ... I buy all my students iMacs and MBPs for them when they start a PhD ... less headaches and maintenance, so money is actually saved when they cost 200€/day) are willing to pay a premium for "perceived" quality but most people won't ... and that's why Apple's market share will remain low and profit/machine will remain high.

Even this isn't truly correct either. In the USA the Mac is rapidly gaining market share for some of the reasons you describe. However Apple is under significant pricing pressure in the USA, people still walk out of Apple stores mumbling about the hardware price. A computer in many cases is like a machine tool, a machine shop owner might tolerate certain quirks if it means a machine will do a job at a significantly lower price, likewise people tolerate Windows or Linux machines due their lower up front costs. Some however evaluate things differently putting value on the Apple operating system for example.

When it comes right down to it the only thing Apple hardware has going for it is the OS. The quality of the physical part of the computer is highly debatable.

 

[Eraserhead]

That's because they "bought" the tech via tech transfer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_high_speed_rail

Siemens (Germany) refused to lower their price for the tech transfer at the beginning but finally relented.

Well its a free market. Companies weren't forced to do business with them and give them the technology as well.

I mean as a large company if agree to sell something for a certain price I can't exactly bitch about how unfair it was afterwards.

 

[alent1234]

i have one of the last US made Thomasville bedroom sets. when i was buying it i saw the new Chinese made furniture side by side. the chinese made stuff was so much better looking. they built a brand new factory and it was fully computerized and automated.

my US made set, everything is crooked since it's made by hand. the spacing between the outside and the drawer is different everywhere. on the chinese made stuff it's the same.

supposedly the US workers were unionized and refused to let thomasville build the factory in the US. the old one in the US is three stories and people have to drag the furniture up and down the stairs

 

[wizard]

That is not a very healthy attitude to have.

Yes, lets all hope our children work on assembly lines instead of as engineers or designers.

I never really got the whole fret about all the crappy jobs going overseas. Good riddance. Invest in education and let the rest of the world be the factory that builds our ideas.

So would you turn food production, basic necessities and military production over to the Chinese? How about the medical establishment? Beyond that do you really believe everybody in this country really is cut out for the types of jobs you seem to prefer?

What is funny here is that this problem of Chinese electronics may suddenly go entirely away. All we need to have is a full scale war start up between North and South Korea and we will have no Apple products at all. I will then have a good laugh.

It does make me wonder what Apples contingency plans are if doing business with China suddenly becomes impossible. Even a move to Thailand or India would result in significant price increases. Worst though is where would they get their parts? Frankly the China problem will like go away with the deaths of millions once the bombs start dropping in asia.

 

[alent1234]

Are you guys prepared to do the job for $150/month? If not, then they'll continue to be made elsewhere.



The Chinese are perfectly capable of making high quality products if you pay enough money for them. For example the Chinese trains are much better constructed than most British trains.



I very much doubt it. Most EU countries have laws stopping unskilled labourers moving to the EU.

NY Times had an article a few months ago how the big italian designers are importing chinese workers to work in sweatshops in italy. but even before that it was common knowledge that the people making the expensive clothing don't get paid much.

for the UK, my wife used to tell me how the US brand Delta faucets were crap and how the european stuff was so good. one time she took me to a store in manhattan where they sell $3000 faucets from england.

few months later i found out that these faucets are made by the same company as Delta which is owned by a company that makes 50 or so different brands of home improvement products. and the delta faucets in home depot feel a lot sturdier and better made than the expensive ones i saw

and years ago i read in the wall street journal how most of the old line european family brands were bought up years ago by private equity and the manufacturing moved to china or eastern europe

 

[gtgrad95]

7 million units in Q4? Seems kinda high considering iPad 2 will probably be out in Jan. I myself am waiting for that.

 

[alent1234]

So would you turn food production, basic necessities and military production over to the Chinese? How about the medical establishment? Beyond that do you really believe everybody in this country really is cut out for the types of jobs you seem to prefer?

What is funny here is that this problem of Chinese electronics may suddenly go entirely away. All we need to have is a full scale war start up between North and South Korea and we will have no Apple products at all. I will then have a good laugh.

It does make me wonder what Apples contingency plans are if doing business with China suddenly becomes impossible. Even a move to Thailand or India would result in significant price increases. Worst though is where would they get their parts? Frankly the China problem will like go away with the deaths of millions once the bombs start dropping in asia.

do you really think the chinese will go to war with the US over north korea?

 

[acidfast7]

NY Times had an article a few months ago how the big italian designers are importing chinese workers to work in sweatshops in italy. but even before that it was common knowledge that the people making the expensive clothing don't get paid much.

for the UK, my wife used to tell me how the US brand Delta faucets were crap and how the european stuff was so good. one time she took me to a store in manhattan where they sell $3000 faucets from england.

few months later i found out that these faucets are made by the same company as Delta which is owned by a company that makes 50 or so different brands of home improvement products. and the delta faucets in home depot feel a lot sturdier and better made than the expensive ones i saw

i was just going to post that ...

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/09/12/world/europe/PRATO.html?ref=italy

about your faucet comments ... i've done a complete queen anne victorian restoration myself, so why don't you list an English company or two so we can do a comparison.

 

[flopticalcube]

So would you turn food production, basic necessities and military production over to the Chinese? How about the medical establishment? Beyond that do you really believe everybody in this country really is cut out for the types of jobs you seem to prefer?

What is funny here is that this problem of Chinese electronics may suddenly go entirely away. All we need to have is a full scale war start up between North and South Korea and we will have no Apple products at all. I will then have a good laugh.

It does make me wonder what Apples contingency plans are if doing business with China suddenly becomes impossible. Even a move to Thailand or India would result in significant price increases. Worst though is where would they get their parts? Frankly the China problem will like go away with the deaths of millions once the bombs start dropping in asia.

Actually, it's a very healthy attitude. Fostering mutual interdependence amongst nations which specialize at what they are best at yields not only better products at lower prices but less willingness to fight pointless wars. US manufacturing employment has been falling for 40 years and will continue to fall regardless of China. Currently, the 18m Americans employed in manufacturing produce more than any other country on earth so at the same time there is nothing to fear nor any potential growth coming.

 

[DCJ001]

Hard to believe it's only been out for 6 months or so. They've really taken off, more than I ever expected.

I've yet to take the plunge myself, still not sure if the iPad is for me.

If you haven't tried one out yet, stop by an Apple Store when you get a chance.

Once you use an iPad for a little while, you'll realize that you have to have one.

 

[acidfast7]

Yes, lets all hope our children work on assembly lines instead of as engineers or designers.

I never really got the whole fret about all the crappy jobs going overseas. Good riddance. Invest in education and let the rest of the world be the factory that builds our ideas.

have you seen the recent percentages of foreign graduate students in American doctoral programs? in the biological sciences, it's usually over 50%.

No I don't see this either. Spending big money on housing, autos or even furniture is a waste of money if it doesn't enhance your life in a significant manner. Americans in particular do not aspire to buying for status for the most part. Given a set income stream there are far better things to spend your money on that transportation and housing.

there was almost no housing bubble in germany. also, in the western world, germans save the greatest percentage of their monthly disposable income. i'd consider them frugal while demanding quality. they almost always sacrifice quantity (material goods)/space (housing) for quality.

How many decent computers are manufactured in Germany? Further nobody in their right mind is willing to slap a another $500 on an Apple PC purchase just so they have a made in the USA label. If German was an open market and not a protected one there would be a complete reversal of your thinking.

none. how many auto manufacturers does germany have? and germans will pay the premium for the final assembly to be performed in germany.

Even this isn't truly correct either. In the USA the Mac is rapidly gaining market share for some of the reasons you describe. However Apple is under significant pricing pressure in the USA, people still walk out of Apple stores mumbling about the hardware price. A computer in many cases is like a machine tool, a machine shop owner might tolerate certain quirks if it means a machine will do a job at a significantly lower price, likewise people tolerate Windows or Linux machines due their lower up front costs. Some however evaluate things differently putting value on the Apple operating system for example.

apple is still TINY in market share. 7.2% last time I check ... I'd hardly consider that surging. maybe percentage-wise, but overall it's not so impressive.

When it comes right down to it the only thing Apple hardware has going for it is the OS. The quality of the physical part of the computer is highly debatable.

I still haven't seen another company provide a laptop with an aluminum unibody, backlit keyboard and glass screen for under $1200. it's pretty easy to argue that all of those items are quality components that aren't often found on other machines. also, i know this an anecdotal, but my aluminum MB is holding up much better after 2 years of heavy use than my HP did and they were similar in purchase price.

Well its a free market. Companies weren't forced to do business with them and give them the technology as well.

I mean as a large company if agree to sell something for a certain price I can't exactly bitch about how unfair it was afterwards.

of course it is, but it's FOOLISH to assume/imply that China did all of that engineering independent, which was strongly implied in the initial post.

So would you turn food production, basic necessities and military production over to the Chinese? How about the medical establishment? Beyond that do you really believe everybody in this country really is cut out for the types of jobs you seem to prefer?

What is funny here is that this problem of Chinese electronics may suddenly go entirely away. All we need to have is a full scale war start up between North and South Korea and we will have no Apple products at all. I will then have a good laugh.

It does make me wonder what Apples contingency plans are if doing business with China suddenly becomes impossible. Even a move to Thailand or India would result in significant price increases. Worst though is where would they get their parts? Frankly the China problem will like go away with the deaths of millions once the bombs start dropping in asia.

rare earth minerals. need i say more?

 

[alent1234]

i was just going to post that ...

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/09/12/world/europe/PRATO.html?ref=italy

about your faucet comments ... i've don't complete queen anne victorian restoration myself, so why don't you list an English company or two so we can do a comparison.

http://www.masco.com/our_companies/index.html

here is the company and all the brands they own around the world

 

[alent1234]

have you seen the recent percentages of foreign graduate students in American doctoral programs? in the biological sciences, it's usually over 50%.



there was almost no housing bubble in germany. also, in the western world, germans save the greatest percentage of their monthly disposable income. i'd consider them frugal while demanding quality. they almost always sacrifice quantity (material goods)/space (housing) for quality.



none. how many auto manufacturers does germany have? and germans will pay the premium for the final assembly to be performed in germany.



apple is still TINY in market share. 7.2% last time I check ... I'd hardly consider that surging. maybe percentage-wise, but overall it's not so impressive.



I still haven't seen another company provide a laptop with an aluminum unibody, backlit keyboard and glass screen for under $1200. it's pretty easy to argue that all of those items are quality components that aren't often found on other machines. also, i know this an anecdotal, but my aluminum MB is holding up much better after 2 years of heavy use than my HP did and they were similar in purchase price.



of course it is, but it's FOOLISH to assume/imply that China did all of that engineering independent, which was strongly implied in the initial post.



rare earth minerals. need i say more?

at some point quality is too expensive

why buy a 15" MBP that will last for years for $2000 when you can buy a laptop for under $1000 that will last long enough? i was even shocked when i bought a $299 toshiba laptop as a gift a few months ago about how good the quality was for the price

i have a lenovo for $700 from my employer. brand new. dropped it on the sidewalk one time. some of the plastic fell off but it's still works like a champ. core i5 CPU, etc. very nice laptop. the new dell laptops are an amazing value for the price.

iphones and iPads work just fine with iTunes on Windows

 

[acidfast7]

at some point quality is too expensive

why buy a 15" MBP that will last for years for $2000 when you can buy a laptop for under $1000 that will last long enough? i was even shocked when i bought a $299 toshiba laptop as a gift a few months ago about how good the quality was for the price

i have a lenovo for $700 from my employer. brand new. dropped it on the sidewalk one time. some of the plastic fell off but it's still works like a champ. core i5 CPU, etc. very nice laptop. the new dell laptops are an amazing value for the price.

iphones and iPads work just fine with iTunes on Windows

that's exactly my point. this price point is always much lower for the Americans than for others. most people I work with and know, would rather have a 2500€ MBP for 4 years than one new 600€ laptop every year or two new 1250€ machines every two years.

for one thing, it's not environmentally friendly, and secondly, one just ends up accumulating a lot of junk/stuff. sure, you could donate it somewhere, but a cash donation would go much further than a second hand machine.

 

[Thunderhawks]

I'm so sick of hearing this "China" talk everywhere.

Can't we build stuff over here in the U.S anymore. It really makes me sick.

If the American people would vote for the right politicians with business sense we would. The biggest problem is TAXES and their structure.

Intel wanted to build a plant in California (i.e. creating lots of jobs), but the State (and Federal) couldn't offer the tax breaks other countries give.

So, a few million dollars later (saved by Intel) the plant is in China. This goes on all the time.