Government Officials Bring in Security Experts to Test iOS 7's Activation Lock Feature

[gotluck]

No, you mean they are not Texas.

You describe a police state where people are killed for stealing a mobile phone.

If someone steals my iphone, i would not want the person dead its a phone..

fear is the only thing that stops crime though

fear runs the world baby

I want people to think I'll kill them if they steal my phone(or anything really), then they won't take it.
FYI - I wouldn't kill someone over stealing my phone.

 

[Swift]

Yeah, I don't think they get that this IS a kill switch. If we actually had a kill switch that completely deactivated your phone without any possibility of getting it back, then can you imagine how mad you'd be if you thought someone stole your phone, you kill it, then a week later you find it had fallen behind the couch with the battery dead. would be ******. At least activation lock has the slight possibility of getting it back to the owner, or as a deterrent in the first place.

Meanwhile, if you just can't find your phone, there's an app for that. Gee, what do they call it? I've found my iPhone behind some cushions. Beep, beep.

 

[Night Spring]

I hadn't thought of this. Surely they considered this when they developed Activation Lock.

So if I were going to sell an iPhone with iOS 7 on it, what's the process? Would I wipe the phone, then put my Apple account credentials into the Activation Lock screen after the phone reboots the first time after it's wiped, and then just power the phone off, put it in the box, and it's ready to sell?

No. You need to deactivate Find My iPhone BEFORE wiping the device.

 

[Night Spring]

Could have swore that someone has to remotely mark their phone as a stolen device for the phone to be locked to one iTunes account. It's not every time you activate it, only after a theft.

Nope. Once you activate Find My iPhone, activation lock is active by default. You can turn off activation lock while keeping Find My iPhone on, but you have to do it in Settings.

 

[MacDav]

This isn't their job. Doesn't the government have more important work to do?

I think you might be overlooking the fact that these guys are from New York and San Francisco?

 

[rmatthewware]

This is very definitely their job. They buy a lot of iPhones. They want them secure. If this works, it takes away a lot of the attractiveness of iPhones as something you can steal and fence. Don't worry, Libertarians. They're farming out the attempt to bypass it to honest and brave Ed Snowden contractors.

Not a libertarian. I wouldn't mind if they were doing this for their own benefit, as you said, but that's not it. They're trying to force phone makers to deter theft. It's a good feature for the phones to have, but I don't think the government has the right to pressure cell makers to do it.

 

[Small White Car]

This isn't their job. Doesn't the government have more important work to do?

This place is so hypocritical.

Do you know HOW many threads I've seen about stolen cell phones where people suggest that the victim go to the police?

As soon as we all agree to start telling people "stolen property is not the police's job" then we can start talking like you are.

Until then it seems that we all want results without effort. Ridiculous.

 

[gnasher729]

I think activation lock is going to backfire, in that a lot of people who are legitimately trying to sell or pass on their iDevices won't know to disable the activation lock before doing so, and a lot of new owners who legitimately bought or was gifted used iDevices are going to get stuck with bricked devices. Genius bars, Apple Care, Apple Support Forum, and user forums like this one are going to be flooded with calls of "Help! My newly bought/gifted used iDevice is asking me for a password. What do I do???"

1. Ask the seller for the password.
2. If the seller doesn't know the password, then the seller is either an idiot or a thief. Ask for your money back; if you don't get your money back assume it's a thief and call the police.

 

[iPhonesandMacs]

Why is this something the government needs to be involved in? If Apple can't protect consumers themselves, then people might not want to buy an iPhone with their next purchase.

Apple, known for jumping through all sorts of hoops to keep any remotely negative experience away from the iEcosystem, has far more incentive to deter theft than the government.

Because the government owns several thousand if not hundreds of thousand iOS devices.

 

[Night Spring]

For those that are getting their devices from someone they know, it is easy track down the owners to unlock the devices.

True. Could still be very inconvenient if the original owner doesn't live nearby. I've mailed iDevices to my cousins living outside the country. If the devices were activation locked and I forgot / didn't know to deactivate the lock before sending, I don't know what I would do. Can I set a temporary password for them to activate the device, then switch back to my old password afterwards? Or would I have to tell them my current password, then pick a new one?

In fact, this would be better than so-called "kill-switch". I would be able to know whether the device is activation locked or not when I buy a used phone, and not having to worry about someone activating a "kill-switch" on me down the road.

Now that is a good point, and why kill-switches are a bad idea.

 

[gnasher729]

Yeah, I don't think they get that this IS a kill switch. If we actually had a kill switch that completely deactivated your phone without any possibility of getting it back, then can you imagine how mad you'd be if you thought someone stole your phone, you kill it, then a week later you find it had fallen behind the couch with the battery dead. would be ******. At least activation lock has the slight possibility of getting it back to the owner, or as a deterrent in the first place.

In other words, if Apple listened to these bozos and implemented a kill switch, the bozos would come back a few months later whining about the kill switch.

 

[olowott]

waiting eagerly for the results .........whatever the outcome, there is time to make it better

 

[anubis]

So let's say the following happens: you go out shopping at a few places and then drive home. During the drive home, the phone slips out of your pocket and slides between the seat and console. You go inside your house, only to discover you can't find your phone. You think you may have left it at a certain store because that was the last time you remember seeing it. You go to the store and can't find it and no one has turned it in. Now you're convinced someone has stolen it. You have apple throw the "kill switch" and the phone is now dead. Later that night you find the phone in your car. It is permanently disabled. Who pays for a new phone? I bet almost everyone would expect apple to replace the phone for free.

 

[appleisking]

In other words, if Apple listened to these bozos and implemented a kill switch, the bozos would come back a few months later whining about the kill switch.

That's because no matter what Apple does, it can't win. It will always piss off someone.

 

[UnfetteredMind]

Both Gascón and Schneiderman have stated that they believe Activation Lock is an inadequate theft deterrent and Gascón has urged Apple to implement a "kill switch" that would permanently disable stolen iOS devices.

Why don't we take this further and require all goods to have kill switches so no one will want to steal anything from anyone?

 

[appleisking]

Why don't we take this further and require all goods to have kill switches so no one will want to steal anything from anyone?

Not the point. The Apple brand has become extremely popular. For example, in NY theft has gone up due to the increased presence of iphones and ipads, yet violent crime and murder are down. Something needs to be done to discourage theft, and thankfully Apple agrees and has implemented something. whether it works remains to be seen. Do we need a kill switch? Let's actually see how this works out before we listen to any "experts."

 

[0xyMoron]

I'm sure a security measure such as this won't hold up for a long time before someone comes up with a way to bypass it, shouldn't be impossible to reverse engineer. No wonder security officials are hesitant about giving it their approval (and they won't) even after the test turns out successful they simply cannot control the technology that'll bypass the Activation Lock feature when released.

How many thieves are gonna see a potential to steal an iphone and think to themselves,

"oh let me check if it has iOS 7 because i read that Activation Lock is impossible to bypass"

NONE. they'll just steal the device anyway and determine if it's useful later when the damage is already done.

 

[Night Spring]

1. Ask the seller for the password.
2. If the seller doesn't know the password, then the seller is either an idiot or a thief. Ask for your money back; if you don't get your money back assume it's a thief and call the police.

1. Just posted about how it inconveniences the seller to have to tell someone their password.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/17599889/

2. As someone already said, eventually people will learn to check that the activation lock is not on when buying used iDevices, but until then, we are getting lots of Help! posts. It's going to be a regular feature of MacRumors Forum, just like "I dropped my device in water, what do I do?" and "My screen is scratched, will Apple replace it?" and other such frequently asked topics.

 

[silverblack]

waiting eagerly for the results .........whatever the outcome, there is time to make it better

I think we already know the outcome. This exercise by the government is more to raise public awareness about the new feature, rather than really trying to break it (i.e., they don't really think there's some easy loop hole in it).

After all, what the government really want is to PREVENT the crime, not just creating lots of iPhone bricks. This requires making sure all thieves out there know about this activation lock.

 

[iOSMole]

How to bypass.
1. Steal phone.
2. Damage phone enough that it will not turn on.
3. Get a paid replacement from Apple.
4. Sell replacement for more than you paid for it.

 

[FreeState]

How many thieves are gonna see a potential to steal an iphone and think to themselves,
Quote:
"oh let me check if it has iOS 7 because i read that Activation Lock is impossible to bypass"

FYI - if you put iOS7 on and go back to iOS6 activation lock is still active, even though your running iOS6.

 

[appleisking]

How to bypass.
1. Steal phone.
2. Damage phone enough that it will not turn on.
3. Get a paid replacement from Apple.
4. Sell replacement for more than you paid for it.

Apple won't replace it if it's not under warranty, you can pay for repair but that defeats your whole plan. There's no such thing as a "paid replacement" you'd have to deal with your carrier with that.

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I think we already know the outcome. This exercise by the government is more to raise public awareness about the new feature, rather than really trying to break it (i.e., they don't really think there's some easy loop hole in it).

After all, what the government really want is to PREVENT the crime, not just creating lots of iPhone bricks. This requires making sure all thieves out there know about this activation lock.

Yea once they find out they'll stop stealing it and thefts will go down. That's the whole point, things don't just magically happen overnight.

 

[appleisking]

I'm sure a security measure such as this won't hold up for a long time before someone comes up with a way to bypass it, shouldn't be impossible to reverse engineer. No wonder security officials are hesitant about giving it their approval (and they won't) even after the test turns out successful they simply cannot control the technology that'll bypass the Activation Lock feature when released.

How many thieves are gonna see a potential to steal an iphone and think to themselves, NONE. they'll just steal the device anyway and determine if it's useful later when the damage is already done.

You are completely missing the point. It's to deter future thefts so that the whole spree can go down, not prevent individual ones, which is simply impossible. Also, the tech fix ur suggesting would have to be simple enough for the average thief to understand.

 

[smallnshort247]

All I want is a self destruct button on icloud.com if my iPhone gets stolen. Nothings better than my iPhone 5 blowing up in a thief's pocket..

 

[silverblack]

I'm sure a security measure such as this won't hold up for a long time before someone comes up with a way to bypass it, shouldn't be impossible to reverse engineer.

I wouldn't be so sure. How long has it be since anyone has been about to by-pass Apple's carrier lock using software? Two years?

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All I want is a self destruct button on icloud.com if my iPhone gets stolen. Nothings better than my iPhone 5 blowing up in a thief's pocket..

Except when you find out your own daughter, or someone you love, stole it, or hid it from you for a good reason... or worse, you forgot you had it in your own pocket the whole time!