Actually I very much doubt apple have a good reason for leaving the optical out, I suspect it was a decision made but some mid level manager probably supported buy some flash presentation and the real potential impact was not picked up by senior manager on sign off. Happens all the time in big company's , even apple these days unfortunately
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Had to cancel my ATV4 because no optical audio, question...
- Thread starter SRLMJ23
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This bothered me for all of 5 minutes, until I ordered an adapter for a tenner.
I don't get the argument about quality, optical isn't even that great a connection for audio, it's prone to clock jitter (not that you're likely to notice) but extracting audio from hdmi is definitely no worse from a quality standpoint.
I used to just take toslink from my tv, and run it to my amp, surely this would work for a lot of you? I can't do this with my current set up, as it's a projector so running back from it is impractical. Ultimately I'll just get a proper receiver to replace my stereo amp, they're not expensive things.
I don't get the argument about quality, optical isn't even that great a connection for audio, it's prone to clock jitter (not that you're likely to notice) but extracting audio from hdmi is definitely no worse from a quality standpoint.
I used to just take toslink from my tv, and run it to my amp, surely this would work for a lot of you? I can't do this with my current set up, as it's a projector so running back from it is impractical. Ultimately I'll just get a proper receiver to replace my stereo amp, they're not expensive things.
I honestly think that, this being Apple with their tendency to drop "old" standards. Has just decided that at this point in time, with A/V receivers having included HDMI for so long and the Apple TV being pushed as a device for the TV. That they don't need optical anymore, that the majority of the market will be just fine with only HDMI. They're probably right as well. Apple spend an incredible amount of money on market research to make sure that they are making the right choices overall.
There's always going to be a subset of people at these transitional stages that aren't happy with the choice. But let's face it, HiFi purists (disclaimer, I'm an Arcam guy
) have options to expand without replacing everything. Most quality HiFi equipment doesn't have optical as standard anyway, we need to buy a seperate DAC for that and even those are starting to include HDMI in some cases. Off the top of my head the NAD M51, Essence HDACC, to name a couple.
That's before we get into the various breakout boxes ranging from the cheap, to the ridiculously expensive.
The issue, really is that some people want something Apple has decided has become irrelevant to them. Is it fair, or the best choice to have dropped optical? Possibly not. But nor is its Apples responsibility or duty to cater to that particular market either. They've positioned the new Apple TV as a device for the television, oddly enough, and chances are that a large portion of purchasers will be hooking it up directly to a television.
The next biggest demographic will probably have A/V receivers or sound bars that support HDMI. That just leaves, what to Apple, is probably a fringe market of people who want optical.
You'll find plenty of people willing to shout and complain about the situation, but compared to the millions you don't hear complaining because they just don't care, or notice that it's not there, not such an issue.
I'd have liked an optical out on the new Apple TV. Do I care it's gone, not really, just more fuel for the fire when I decide to convince the wife I need a new amp
Don't forget that over Optical, you are normally only limited to 2 channel audio and in the rare case that you can get 5.1, it's compressed. HDMI allows for full 5.1 and 7.1 uncompressed audio. Hence the reason HDMI is better than Optical.
My projector is the one that causes the biggest inconvenience for me, as fortunately I have a TV with 4 HDMI ports. The projector on the other hand only had a single HDMI port so looks like I'll need another little black box to get the audio to my HT set-up. Given the bigger case, I see no real reason other than cost to loose the optical out, and I think Apple have got this wrong so wouldn't be surprised to see it come back at some point.
Yes, of course that's been discussed and it's a fine option for TV. Many people have been using the optical out to go directly to their sound system so they can listen to music via Airplay without having to have the TV on. And few people who are serious about A/V want the receiver to do the hdmi switching if they can help it.
I understand that optical is not a 'mainstream' connection any longer, but from my point of view as a pretty serious Apple fan - but a reasonable one who is willing to call them out when they make bad decisions - this removal takes away a LOT of flexibility of the ATV, and removes a bit of the magic that these devices have. I've been using the Airport Express to wireless control music around my house since the very first one was released back in what, 2004? When nobody had heard of such a thing and it was a device that Apple barely even acknowledged the existence of. I've sold more of those than I can count for Apple, and the same with the ATV - in large part because of its ability to stream music wirelessly to people's existing stereo systems using the iPhones they already have. It's too bad the new ATV won't be able to do that any longer.
I am not an audio expert. I recently purchased a HMDI ARC enabled tv and soundbar. I know there are some 5.1 limitations, but this seems to work well and eliminates a cord or two. Is this the future for average customers who want a simple setup and a quality sound? If so, then the audio output on the ATV and other devices don't really matter.
From http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-budget-soundbar/
HDMI Audio Return Channel lets the TV send audio from its internal TV tuner, apps, and from devices connected directly to it, back out via HDMI. This removes a cable from the setup, and can make things simpler to configure.
From http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-budget-soundbar/
HDMI Audio Return Channel lets the TV send audio from its internal TV tuner, apps, and from devices connected directly to it, back out via HDMI. This removes a cable from the setup, and can make things simpler to configure.
Why? Are AV receivers somehow incapable of routing a fairly low throughput data signal? That's entirely the ideal solution from my standpoint.. The AV receiver is the amplifier usually, and if it's not, then chances are you'll have a power amp that doesn't take optical so you'd need a DAC anyway.
I hear you on the airport express bit, but again, if you're not connecting it to a tv or receiver, then surely an airport express is the better option?
Bingo.
hdmi -> reciever -> tv/projector/whatever is the ideal solution here, everything else is a compromise and if you're compromising a cheap adapter is no big deal.
The primary reason has already been covered here. When you route the hdmi signals through the receiver, you lose the ability to have different screen settings for different inputs, say Movies vs. Gaming. Second, in my experience, most family members and guests will just turn on the TV and want to watch something. Having to negotiate the receiver for input switching just complicates things further.
Yes, for dedicated audio the AE is better, but many people have systems that perform double-duty for video and audio, and the old ATV's let you connect to both systems, without having to involve the other. Now you have to either have a receiver with hdmi switching (and be willing to deal with the above issues) or turn your TV on just to listen to music.
Issues? Surely when you go to all of the trouble of having several pieces of equipment involved in the process of watching or listening to things, you buy a decent remote. If not, I highly recommend it.
One button switches to all the relevant inputs, sets up whatever screen and sound modes you want and controls everything without the need for more than one remote. Far from complicating things, in my experience this simplifies the whole process. Even my technophobe dad can work my setup because all he has to do is press one button on the remote to switch on and set everything up.
Which helps exactly zip on an Apple TV, since there is no streaming service that delivers lossless multi-channel audio (and even if there was one, Apple TV doesn't support any such format).
There is only one possible reason why they decided to drop it, and that reason has a dollar sign in front of it. Apple is not introducing any new video/audio connector, so there isn't even the excuse that they are trying to force a new standard.
No, but some of us have large libraries of files that do include DTS-HD/DTS-MA/Doubly TruHD soundtracks.
I've owned several of them over the years and helped set up several others. In theory they are great. If everything in the system plays along. Inevitably things get out of sync because there is no two-way communication to indicate current state to the remote. So if anybody ventures from the pre-set macros and say, manually turns a device off or changes its input mode, the whole thing is out of sync and it no longer works until they get me involved. When you have a family full of kids and visitors, that happens a lot more often than not.
Yes, that is the replacement for optical out ports on display devices intended by the industry. Unfortunately it doesn't always work so well between devices from different manufacturers due to incompatibilities in their HDMI CEC implementations.
Legally obtained in a format that can be played through the ATV? I'm not saying it's not an issue, but if you are talking about Blu-ray rips and the like, Apple isn't exactly concerned about providing support for that kind of content.
I just bought one of these to remedy the exact problem the OP is having http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DZIXIMQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
Works brilliantly even though it does throw another remote into the mix.
The bonus is I can now have all of my devices connected to my sound system as for some reason my TV wouldn't pass anything through the optical port and up until now only my ATV3 had the privilege.
Works brilliantly even though it does throw another remote into the mix.
The bonus is I can now have all of my devices connected to my sound system as for some reason my TV wouldn't pass anything through the optical port and up until now only my ATV3 had the privilege.
sure to be "technical"....you knew exactly what i was talking about. Another person complained that they only had 2 hdmi ports on their tv, how will they use the new apple tv?? The list of complaints goes on and on with anything that Apple comes out with. You spend $2,000 on a "supposed" decent receiver, but aren't willing to pay for an adapter for your outdated equipment?
Can people please stop saying optical is outdated - as has been pointed out many times in 2 channel audio it is still the standard - period. In DACs it is still the current standard - period. In headphone amps combined with DACs it is still the standard - period. HDMI is not found on these devices and is never likely to be - it is a Video and Audio connection with copy protection - why would audio only devices 2 channel include such an connector ????
In short if you say optical is out dated you have no clue.
This would all be of no consequence if ATV was only a video / game device, but its not it is also a audio one and up to now quite a useful one - what most of us will now do is not by an adapter, cheap ones are crap for audio, we will move to other audio streaming devices
The AppleTV is predominately a video media streamer. Yes it can be used to play audio files, but it is by no means its main aim. Again, I will repeat, it is a shame v4 doesn't have optical out but I would be interested to see how many people actually used it anyway.
Legality doesn't have a ton to do with it. Regardless, I'm talking about the ability of 3rd party apps to play container formats that support those features. Not the 1st party player.
It's a drag that the ATV has no optical out now, but it makes sense. Apple doesn't mess around with hanging onto ports when they become obsolete. Just ask anyone like me who was invested in NuBus.
Home theater receivers are not the same as audiophile hardware in most cases. An owner is lucky to get six years out of a home theater receiver because of the swiftly changing landscape of not only video and audio but also content delivery. You can buy a stereo amp that will last last you a lifetime, but the days of home theater receivers that remain relevant for even a decade are long gone.
I'm a good example. My Onkyo TX-SR504 is eight years old. I should have updated it a couple years ago. It has no HDMI ports, no network connectivity of any kind, no automatic speaker calibration... a dinosaur and not even ten years old.
I took the release of an optical out-less AppleTV as a sign to do something about the ancient nerve center of my setup. The Onkyo TX-NR646 will be here next week. Until then my new AppleTV will have to live in my bedroom where a newer Sony all in one sound bar/sub knows how to talk to it without a toslink.
Home theater receivers are not the same as audiophile hardware in most cases. An owner is lucky to get six years out of a home theater receiver because of the swiftly changing landscape of not only video and audio but also content delivery. You can buy a stereo amp that will last last you a lifetime, but the days of home theater receivers that remain relevant for even a decade are long gone.
I'm a good example. My Onkyo TX-SR504 is eight years old. I should have updated it a couple years ago. It has no HDMI ports, no network connectivity of any kind, no automatic speaker calibration... a dinosaur and not even ten years old.
I took the release of an optical out-less AppleTV as a sign to do something about the ancient nerve center of my setup. The Onkyo TX-NR646 will be here next week. Until then my new AppleTV will have to live in my bedroom where a newer Sony all in one sound bar/sub knows how to talk to it without a toslink.
funny thing is i have very new sony LED TV that does optical out so its not so obsolete just yet. Pretty handy too cos my sony surround sound system is 6 or 7 years old and accepts optical in. so everything goes to tv via HDMI and comes out via optical. Sounds lovely too, gonna be a few more years before i feel any need to upgrade.
Hogwash. Nothing happens like that at Apple. The port was dropped for the same reason floppy and optical drives were dropped from iMacs and later MacPros: they believe it's obsolete and they're not interested in continuing to support it. Simple as that. As usual they're looking forward, not back. Their answer would no doubt be that HDMI is a superior connector for audio, that if you want the best experience you should be using it and if for whatever reason you can't or don't want to there are work arounds that won't cost you an arm and a leg.
There's nothing unusual about this at all. Apple has been doing the exact same thing for decades.
Sure, but "Apple obsolete" tends to lead "objective obsolete" by a fair margin. How long AFTER Apple dropped floppy drives were they genuinely obsolete?
Apple tends to evaluate these things in terms of upcoming generations rather than previous ones. Clearly they don't see any use for optical audio going forward, at least in the livingroom.
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completely agree, think you are correct. toslink still got a little life left in my front room tho