iBooks just failed an important test

[KevinC867]

I think the iBooks app looks fantastic. However, I will be buying my books from the Kindle store. Several reasons for this: 1) Much better selection from Amazon. 2) Much more flexibility. I can read Kindle books on all my computing devices. It's just silly that I can't even read iBooks on a Mac. 3) The new Kindle is a better reading device. There - I said it. I love my iPad, but I realized that I often want to read outside in the sun and the iPad just doesn't cut it in that situation. The ultra light design is also a big plus.

I am now the happy owner of a Kindle 3 (WiFi only). It certainly doesn't replace my iPad, but it's a great supplemental device to allow me to read almost anywhere. It's great that Amazon automatically syncs my current page to all my devices.

 

[The Catalyst]

Publishers are whiny little bitches, just like the record companies. They have antiquated ideas of how the market works and are unwilling to change - I am always blown away by the number of books or magazines whose digital copies cost almost as much as their hard-copy versions, even though there is no printing and distribution cost involved. This is just as retarded as the large number of record companies who are still clinging to CD sales instead of releasing music digitally.

This.

Well said.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

I've never tried to put an ePub book onto iBooks that did NOT come from the iBook store, but Random House offers the ePub version of the book, so its obviously an Apple thing and NOT a publishers thing.

http://www.randomhouse.com.au/Books/A-JOURNEY-(EPUB)/9781409060956/eBook/

 

[saberahul]

It's true - they are still catching up; however, you have the option of importing .epub into your library or using the Kindle and other applications.

 

[NT1440]

I've never tried to put an ePub book onto iBooks that did NOT come from the iBook store, but Random House offers the ePub version of the book, so its obviously an Apple thing and NOT a publishers thing.

http://www.randomhouse.com.au/Books/A-JOURNEY-(EPUB)/9781409060956/eBook/

That line of thinking doesn't even make sense.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

Let me try again...seems to confuse you.

1) Book is available as an ePub from a reputable publishing source.
2) iBooks are ePubs
3) Book is not available in the official Apple-run iBooks store
4) Clearly, its not a format restriction. The reason the book isn't available in the iBook store is because Apple's procurement group hasn't been able to snag the rights to it....or haven't bothered to for whatever reasons they may have.

Title of thread is "iBooks just failed an important test"

If book is available as an ePub, and Apple's iBook store doesn't carry it, then its not the fault of the publisher. It is available as a Kindle version from Amazon, so they didn't have any issues snagging it. Apple just hasn't been able to for whatever reason.

Ergo...iBooks has failed a test for the OP. They are missing a lot of releases that are available in other formats, or in ePub format, from other sources.

 

[mkrishnan]

They like science stuff so asked about Steven Hawkins (brief history of time)

Did you find it when you searched for it again, but this time, you spelled his name correctly?

 

[rmscott13]

Trying

Indeed, I showed the iPad to a relative and the Book Store.

They like science stuff so asked about Steven Hawkins (brief history of time)

I said no problem and did a search........

Nothing.......

I don't know what I was expecting, but I suppose I just took it as read that well known popular modern books would all be there.

Try Stephen Hawking - might have better luck.

 

[poloponies]

Let me try again...seems to confuse you.

1) Book is available as an ePub from a reputable publishing source.
2) iBooks are ePubs
3) Book is not available in the official Apple-run iBooks store
4) Clearly, its not a format restriction. The reason the book isn't available in the iBook store is because Apple's procurement group hasn't been able to snag the rights to it....or haven't bothered to for whatever reasons they may have.

Title of thread is "iBooks just failed an important test"

If book is available as an ePub, and Apple's iBook store doesn't carry it, then its not the fault of the publisher. It is available as a Kindle version from Amazon, so they didn't have any issues snagging it. Apple just hasn't been able to for whatever reason.

Ergo...iBooks has failed a test for the OP. They are missing a lot of releases that are available in other formats, or in ePub format, from other sources.

It has nothing to do with formatting, it's about licensing. Of course the publisher can create an epub file - the issue is their allowing Apple to put it in iBooks.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

It has nothing to do with formatting, it's about licensing. Of course the publisher can create an epub file - the issue is their allowing Apple to put it in iBooks.

You are such a blinded Apple apologist you just can't see the truth here, can you?

The publisher HAS made it available in a number of formats:

Kindle:
http://www.amazon.com/Journey-My-Po...F3PMLG/ref=kinw_dp_ke?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2

Barnes and Noble Nook:
http://productsearch.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.aspx?WRD=Tony+Blair

Borders Kobo:
http://www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail?sku=0307594874


Two and a HALF booksellers already carry it...I'm only counting the Borders Kobo version as a half because they are totally lame in the ebook space.

Clearly, Apple has chosen not to carry it...or perhaps not at a price the publisher is willing to let them do so at. Regardless, as the Sesame Street-level clarity of this situation would attest:"One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just isn't the same...."

Its so humorous how fast Apple fans are to defend Apple. This one is clearly on them....the book is out there, in other formats as well as ePub format, from other ebook sources at attractive pricing. Apple just dropped the ball on it. Or possibly has a political motivation for not carrying it.

However you slice it, I'd say Publisher wins, Apple and iBooks store readers totally lose. Stick with one of the reputable eBooks sources or, as others have noted, get the Kindle or Nook version since you can get the reader apps to work on your iPad.

 

[LizKat]

How is someone who prefers the Apple ibook format a blinded Apple apologist? I like the Apple ibook format better, that's all.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

Way to miss the point Liz....jeebus, save me.

 

[JulianL]

I've never tried to put an ePub book onto iBooks that did NOT come from the iBook store, but Random House offers the ePub version of the book, so its obviously an Apple thing and NOT a publishers thing.

http://www.randomhouse.com.au/Books/A-JOURNEY-(EPUB)/9781409060956/eBook/

Actually, that's a very interesting and baffling link.

Firstly, I have put many books onto iBooks that didn't come from the iBook store, the majority in fact. These are books that I created myself by converting my old Barnes & Noble (FictionWise) books and they all work perfectly.

Secondly (and the reason I'm confused), ePub isn't really a useful term as far as ebooks are concerned (that's not your fault, it's the industry's fault) so I'm wondering exactly what that Random House book is. I've scanned very briefly their FAQs on that site and I'm none the wiser.

The issue with ePub, and why knowing that a book is in ePub doesn't tell you all that you need to know, is because ePub is just a container format and DRM can be added to the contents so you could have three books, all in "ePub" format, and all incompatible with each other because each one is protected using a different DRM. Admittedly an open (unprotected) ePub book is meaningful in that it should be readable on anything that supports ePub but if someone just says something is ePub then one needs to also know what DRM it is using to know if it can be read on one's specific device.

Now, if that Random House title really is a DRM-free ePub file then yes, we're off and running and it should just be draggable into iTunes for subsequent sync and reading on an iPad or iPhone. I find it a bit hard to believe that Random House are pushing out unprotected files here though so I wonder what DRM it is using. I think that iBooks uses FairPlay so unless the DRM on that book is FairPlay then I don't think it will be readable in iBooks.

Yes, this is all horribly, horribly confusing for the reader. I just hope this whole ebook industry matures quickly.

As for who is at fault here (Apple or publisher) I don't know enough about the detailed finances and Ts & Cs to know who has the moral ground but it is not a given that it is 100% the publisher's fault or 100% Apple's fault. If the terms that Apple presented to Random House where genuinely damaging to RH's business and just not something that they could sign up to, and Apple refused to compromise in any way to sweeten the deal enough for Random House to feel comfortable signing up, then is that Apple's fault, RH's fault, or a combination of both? As IrishVixen has pointed out, this all looks to be down to a fundemental philisophical difference between agency and reseller models so subtle compromises on nuances of the deal wouldn't have been the issue here, but the broader issue of who is to blame if two parties fail to reach an agreement still stand.

Does anyone know what DRM (if any) is on that ePub title? (Again, I'm not particularly interested in getting this book, I've just leapt on it as an example of a high profile book not on the iBook store.)

- Julian

 

[Ciclismo]

I think that if there is DRM integrated into ePub, then it is universal. Apple says that any eBook that is in the ePub format can be transferred onto the iPad to be viewed in iBook

... because the iBooks app uses ePub, the most popular open book format in the world, you can also use it to read ePub books you get from other sources with your computer. Just drag the ePub files into your iTunes Library (or select Add to Library from the iTunes File menu), then sync your iPad with your computer (iTunes 9.1 required). The books will appear on your shelf in iBooks right alongside the ones you get through iBookstore.

Source

Therefore, although you cannot purchase a title through the iBook store, you can purchase it from anywhere else as long as it is in the ePub format. You can then transfer it to your iPad using iTunes.

In my opinion (and it is purely that, a loosely informed opinion) the only downside to the end consumer is that you cannot purchase the ePub book directly through the iPad as it will not be downloaded into iBook automatically. This is because the iPad has no folder structure (which I think is a good thing, but I'll save that for another thread) so downloads into iBook can only de done through the iBook store or by importing it into iTunes on your computer and then syncing the iPad.

Why can you not buy the book through the iBook store? Because both Apple and the publishing house being unable to come to an agreement regarding the licencing required by the publisher on behalf of the author in order for the book to be sold through the iBook store.

 

[JulianL]

I think that if there is DRM integrated into ePub, then it is universal. Apple says that any eBook that is in the ePub format can be transferred onto the iPad to be viewed in iBook


Source

Therefore, although you cannot purchase a title through the iBook store, you can purchase it from anywhere else as long as it is in the ePub format. You can then transfer it to your iPad using iTunes.

I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure that I'm correct because I only have firsthand experience of using Fairplay and unprotected ePub with iBooks but I fear that the conclusion you have drawn from the above might not be correct. That link you give (and thank you for citing a source) just talks about using "ePub" with iTunes/iBooks and I fear that it is actually using this as shorthand for "ePub (either without DRM, or with FairPlay DRM if DRM-protected)". What would happen if that Random House book is actually an Adobe ePub book (which I believe uses Adobe Content Server DRM)? I suspect that it would not be readable in iBook (although yet again I will admit that I'm also trying to learn here so I'm not stating fact but rather trying to see if my only-slightly-informed understanding is correct).

With the usual caveats about possible errors in Wikipedia, the article there does discuss compatibility and DRM-fragmentation issues towards the end of the article under the "Criticism" section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epub

- Julian

 

[Diane B]

I believe Random House is the main publishing house that Apple hasn't signed. In truth I like the Barnes and Noble app best because it has the most options to set as one wants but I rarely buy from them. Now that they are in a bit of turmoio I look there less altho' I frequent their bricks and mortar store.

 

[NightGeometry]

I hope Random House don't allow Apple to sell their books. Apple's foisting of the agency model onto book sellers is particularly nasty. Basically it appears to be a realisation that they can't compete with Amazon on low pricing, so they have caused all other (US) ebook stores to sell books at the same price.

I am a big Apple fan, but they did kill competitive ebook pricing in the US. Luckily that doesn't seem to have happened here (possibly due to the abolition of the NBA, there is little appetite for trying to reintroduce it by another name).

 

[Ciclismo]

I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure that I'm correct because I only have firsthand experience of using Fairplay and unprotected ePub with iBooks but I fear that the conclusion you have drawn from the above might not be correct. That link you give (and thank you for citing a source) just talks about using "ePub" with iTunes/iBooks and I fear that it is actually using this as shorthand for "ePub (either without DRM, or with FairPlay DRM if DRM-protected)". What would happen if that Random House book is actually an Adobe ePub book (which I believe uses Adobe Content Server DRM)? I suspect that it would not be readable in iBook (although yet again I will admit that I'm also trying to learn here so I'm not stating fact but rather trying to see if my only-slightly-informed understanding is correct).

With the usual caveats about possible errors in Wikipedia, the article there does discuss compatibility and DRM-fragmentation issues towards the end of the article under the "Criticism" section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epub


- Julian

Quandry resolved! http://www.randomhouse.com/ebooks/ They specifically mention the iPad as being the core reader that they target.

 

[JulianL]

Quandry resolved! http://www.randomhouse.com/ebooks/ They specifically mention the iPad as being the core reader that they target.

Thanks for that. It does seem to resolve the quandary; it suggests to me that that previous link to the RH ePub release of the Blair book is not compatible with iBooks so dragging it to iTunes and syncing it to your device will probably not give you a readable book.

If you look at the web page then it does list the iPad as a compatible reading device in the orange text at the top but then just below that there is the "iPad compatible reading apps" listed and that does not include iBooks. This implies to me that RH's route to iPad reading is via people buying the Kindle versions of their books and installing the Kindle reader on their iPads rather than native support for iBook format (i.e. ePub with FairPlay DRM) books.

I do like the iBook reader so if this impasse continues then my approach will probably be to purchase Kindle titles, strip off the DRM, and convert them to unprotected ePub to load into iBooks. I'd rather not do that though so I hope that someone (Apple or Random House) blinks here.

- Julian

 

[Ciclismo]

I think that this boils down to Apple not wanting to give RH the profit margin that they are after (which is why they won't release any titles over the iBook store). I still maintain that the reason for this is that most publishing houses are run by retards who are incapable of understanding that the retail world has changed and who still cling to outmoded pricing models.

 

[diabolic]

For instance, your Amazon Kindle books are stored on your Amazon account not really on your iPad. There would be no way for another app to access the Amazon database to allow it to download the book into it. Nor would Amazon release the book to a central database on the iPad because it would have to give up control of the book.

This is definitely not the case. The books are stored on the devices. The books are available whether you are connected to the internet or not. If you use the Kindle reader for the PC, you definitely have access to the files, and removing the DRM and converting them to another format isn't too tough if you search around.

 

[lilo777]

That's something I'm worried about too when I get my iPad. Hopefully a new version of iOS will provide a dedicated "books" directory that any app can have access to .

That's unlikely. As I understand, Amazon uses its own proprietary format for Kindle and therefore other applications can not read it.

 

[JulianL]

I think that this boils down to Apple not wanting to give RH the profit margin that they are after (which is why they won't release any titles over the iBook store). I still maintain that the reason for this is that most publishing houses are run by retards who are incapable of understanding that the retail world has changed and who still cling to outmoded pricing models.

I'm sure it all comes down to money. I don't know enough about the publishing industry to know whether to agree or disagree with your second sentence so I leave it to (publishing) industry insiders or followers to comment on that.

Given Apple's intransigence, to the point of not really seeming to care whether they get Random House on board or not, I worry about how commited they are to the ebook market. I fear the ambivalence comes from the top. I followed the live blogs for the iOS 4 press event 6 months or so ago and that presentation comprised Jobs going through the "seven tent-poles" (major features) of iOS 4. One of the tent-poles was iBooks on the iPhone and the live Engadget (I think) blog commentary on that one said something like "Even Steve doesn't seem that excited about this one" when he got to that bit of the presentation.

If Apple really want to build iBooks up to be a true Kindle competitor then they need to (a) do better on content, and (b) make the iBooks reader available on non-Apple devices. I'm getting less and less sure that they're serious enough about this market to be willing to do either of these. Ultimately they could just withdraw from the eBook market by stopping investing significant resources and leaving it to stagnate. Both the iPad and iPhone (and Touch) are multi-use devices so I can't imagine that the availability of the iBook reader and store drives many sales of Apple devices. Has anyone really bought an iPad just to run iBooks? If someone is an avid ebook reader then, had iBooks not been available, surely that person would have just installed Kindle or some other reader for their reading app.

- Julian

 

[JulianL]

That's unlikely. As I understand, Amazon uses its own proprietary format for Kindle and therefore other applications can not read it.

Yes, but one possibility is that even the current iPad iOS 3.x release supports an "Open in..." function so that one app can pass a file to another app that has registered itself as understanding that content (e.g. an app like a mail reader can invoke an "open with..." operation on a spreadsheet attachment and if there is something like Documents To Go installed then that will have registered that it understands .xls files and will be launched and passed the spreadsheet file at launch.).

With the above mechanism then I can envisage a unified "Bookshelf" app where that app gives the user a unified view of all their Kindle, iBook, B&N, PDF or any other book that they want to put on their bookshelf. When a user opens a particular book then this bookshelf app can't display a single one of them so if invokes an "Open with..." action on the selected book and, so long as the Kindle reader (for instance) registers itself with iOS as an OS-wide service that knows how to handle that file type, then the Kindle reader will be launched to read the book. Unfortunately on exit the user would drop back to the home screen rather than being returned back to the Bookshelf app which is what I would prefer so it wouldn't be a seamless experience but it would be something. I also suspect that things like user notes and bookmarks might be problematic. Another snag is that it relies on all the reader apps registering themselves as an available "Open with..." service.

- Julian

 

[smetvid]

Why isn't asking Apple why they don't support the native Epub format? Everybody wants to blame everybody else except for Apple for shaking things up and creating a system when there were other systems in place. Perhaps the iBooks format is better but it is a new format and before it takes off the iBooks app should have supported other native formats. I also love Apple products but I fail to see how this is the fault of everybody else. You should all start demanding Apple allow native import of the epub format not that everybody else should drop the format they are used to using just to use Apple's format. Apple is a massive underdog here. Yes there should be an industry standard but I fail to see why the Apple format should be that industry standard. Apple are the ones here that people should be demanding add native support for other book formats.