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sober2ndthought

macrumors regular
Dec 23, 2013
113
105
Calgary
The cheese grater and the MacBook under my desk say "suck it" :p
They killed the netbook, and that's it.

Netbooks killed themselves. They were never really that useful. I remember using one once and being super frustrated by how slow it was. Even if the iPad was not released, netbooks probably would have died anyway. They might have lasted a bit longer.
 

springsup

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2013
1,227
1,223
How is it a stat for the purpose of finance when they don't seem to care about profit, revenue, ASP or market share per segment.

Apple doesn't give a crap that its 25% of a group that : mostly sells under-powered tablets that cost under $50 crappy and lasts less than a year; that has less than 50% of its revenue and 20% of its profits split 100 ways.

They only care if they own users start buying these tablets and no longer buy their own when their Apple ones fall apart, otherwise it is irrelevant to their long term health.

Not really. If Apple don't sell enough iPads every year, it may at some point become an unprofitable effort to sustain regardless of how many are actually in circulation.

Let's pretend an iPad lasts 10 years before you'd think about replacing one. That would mean that Apple could theoretically be employing engineers to design new iPad hardware and write software for iPads for 10 years before those efforts lead to any direct return for the company. If people went that long before replacing their iPads, Apple would need to employ fewer engineers (or have them devote much less of their time to the iPad, resulting in fewer releases) or raise prices to maintain the level of improvement to the product.

We're not anywhere near that point, though. The iPad (and tablet market in general) is slowing, but it's still very profitable. Even if it weren't, Apple would be incredibly reluctant to drop it because those customers who do value them would then be unserved by the iOS ecosystem.
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
Not really. If Apple don't sell enough iPads every year, it may at some point become an unprofitable effort to sustain regardless of how many are actually in circulation.

Let's pretend an iPad lasts 10 years before you'd think about replacing one. That would mean that Apple could theoretically be employing engineers to design new iPad hardware and write software for iPads for 10 years before those efforts lead to any direct return for the company. If people went that long before replacing their iPads, Apple would need to employ fewer engineers (or have them devote much less of their time to the iPad, resulting in fewer releases) or raise prices to maintain the level of improvement to the product.

We're not anywhere near that point, though. The iPad (and tablet market in general) is slowing, but it's still very profitable. Even if it weren't, Apple would be incredibly reluctant to drop it because those customers who do value them would then be unserved by the iOS ecosystem.

If Apple ressurected the Ipod from near death, we can be sure the Ipad is going to continue until its lower than the Ipod (because of its unique position in the enterprise market, that's even more likely). It is not even close right now. I'm talking more about IDC, the press and some people'S obsession with unit volume market sharw (not even segmented ones) as a determinant gauge of success. It is not.
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
The tablet is a luxury. A phone and laptop aren't.

A phone is a luxury in my world. I keep a regular old plain vanilla cell phone with a pre-paid plan and spend about $8 a month total ($100 a year renewable for 1000 minutes with rollover). Spending $70+ a month for something that is 100% unnecessary (i.e. you don't NEED to read email and surf the web while at McDonalds or at work and heaven forbid while driving). People that think they NEED to do that or even "text" (waste of time/money) are ADDICTED to that crap. I'm not someone who barely uses the Internet either. But it's not much fun doing it on a tiny touchscreen, IMO and I sure as hell don't need to get fired over it (or in an accident). It can damn well WAIT. Texting is the scourge of the 21st Century, IMO. A bunch of worthless talk about NOTHING. Worse yet, it's incredibly distracting and cars are weaving all over the road with people trying to text while driving (apparently people don't want to actually "talk" today, just ask each other what they're doing). But basically, I have better things I could do with $70 a month including buying a new Macbook Pro about every other year instead.

A laptop may or may not be a luxury depending on whether you need it for a job. If you just want it to surf while slurping lattes at Starbucks, I'd call it a luxury. Personally, I prefer surfing at home with a 27" monitor, full size keyboard and 5-button mouse with a scroll wheel over some tiny 15" screen and a miserable trackpad (they're HARD and cause finger/wrist pain over long periods of time IMO) and undersized keyboard.

The laptop/tablet categories could merge like we see happening on Windows with laptops that are tablets and the Surface, but those still seem like the worst of both worlds for most.

I'd like a touchscreen on a desktop Mac for one reason...games. Things like flight simulators would be very handy to be able to manipulate cockpit controls directly on the screen rather than keyboard combos. It's more realistic. Otherwise, fingerprints would drive me nuts in short order, even if they are easy to clean off with a glass screen. I can see where a touchscreen could/would be useful for a notebook, however, particularly if it could run "iOS" Apps as an overlay kind of option and back to full OSX when desired. If the keyboard part could flip over and rotate smoothly so you don't need to separate it (say tuck in underneath when not in use and yet not be total junk), it might be kind of cool, really. Make something like the Launchpad button switch back and forth between modes. Desktops could then directly play iOS games as well (a plus in a few cases at least where an interesting game isn't available for OSX, although whether they play well without a touchscreen is another matter, but many would be fine with a trackpad or mouse).
 

sober2ndthought

macrumors regular
Dec 23, 2013
113
105
Calgary
Then why don't you get a laptop? The new MacBook or an Air for instance? Simply the lack of touchscreen?

I do wonder about people that say, "I want a tablet but I want a desktop OS, keyboard, USB ports and it needs to be powerful enough to run Photoshop, and Autodesk software."

No, folks. You might want a tablet, but you need a laptop.

That's the point.

Since the iPad was announced it felt like there was a push to eliminate the traditional personal computer (including macs) and replaced it with something new and shiny. There were articles all over the net about the impending death of the PC. How the PC is going the same way of the mainframe (never mind that mainframes still play a big role in our lives).

Just look at how the PC Manufacturers responded. We kept getting more and more "post-PC" devices while the traditional PC slowly disappeared from their shelves. As much as I like the Surface, I found most of the devices pushed by PC Manufacturers to be painful. Why the heck do I need a Touch Screen on my laptop whose keyboard cannot be detached? Am I suppose to reach all all the way across my desk to touch a screen?

Microsoft responded by essentially panicking and creating a horrible monstrosity called Windows 8 which effectively handicapped the traditional computer in favour of "Post-PC" devices. They started focusing their development work on Office for the iPad and neglected Office on both the PC and the Mac.

Even Apple neglected its Mac line up for years, while pushing iOS devices on to us. The Mac Pro didn't see an upgrade for years, the Mac Mini also languished for years. The iMac and Macbooks saw some upgrades but even they were be ignored in favour of Apple's new fancy iOS toy. We regularly had machines which ran on a year or two year old processors on the market. In the case of a MacPro there was a two year old CPU and a 4 year old graphics card in a device designed primary for performance. I would have hated to run a business requiring a high performance Mac during these years. I am still running a four year old Macbook Pro, because until recently it was pretty much as good as the other Macbook Pros on the market (despite the fact that AMD and NVDIA released many upgrades to their graphics chips).

5 years later, what more rational people said is coming true. The market has responded. The iPad is not a good content creation device. It is a horrible content creation device. The problem is we mostly use our computers for content creation. Why would I spend 800 dollars on an iPad when I will need a laptop which can do all that an iPad can do plus make content creation much better.

Aside from the Surface (and I guess the XBOX too), every "post-pc" product Microsoft pushed failed. The Surface succeeding because it was good at both content consumption and creation. Most people who got Windows 8 on their computers were frustrated, and many chose to stick to Windows 7. Apple was forced to play catch up on its Mac devices which were neglected for years.
 
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Wahlstrm

macrumors 6502a
Dec 4, 2013
847
847
It's because the new models vibrate too much.
Yes, this is why I skipped the Air2.
Saw it, "ohh, beautiful".
Picked it up, "this is amazing".
Played a video, "nope, never, this is crap"

Hopefully they will make the Air3 a bit more solid. :)
 

keatth

macrumors 6502a
Aug 24, 2013
512
142
Another reason why people aren't buying them from Apple is because yes the novelty has worn off and people who own them sell them to someone who will I then sell it again in the second hand market
 

dec.

Suspended
Apr 15, 2012
1,349
765
Toronto
Tablets have their place but it's rather limited.

Steve Jobs used his influence and skills as one of the worlds most convincing sales persons to annoint the iPad as "Magical & Revolutionary" his legions of followers fawned over him and "the game changer" he hyped.

Keeping the myth alive... at every opportunity he continued his praise as he crafted the "Post PC Era" storyline ... hanging on his every word the followers that believed he had the ability to know what's best for them when they didn't, bought his pitch hook line and sinker.

Fast forward to the present. The honeymoons faded, the Pitchman's gone, now the products got to stand on its own. It's going to keep selling Apple will see to that. They can't lose face, but it's big sales days seem to be over.

It's even worse - not did he only convince Apple customers of the iPad being that "magical and revolutionary" device, but he also made the entire industry including Samsung, LG, Asus and many other OEM's follow suit. Too bad that they followed him blindly.
 

prowlmedia

Suspended
Jan 26, 2010
1,589
813
London
1. So you're comparing a market of which Apple possess just 5% shares, with a market in which Apple (used to possess) 50%?

I smell the hypocrite apologist and the uselessness of arguing

2. The price point? I never talked about price, overpriced Apple device do sell when they have no competitor AND a use. Ipads have no relevant competitor but they are USELESS. For the reason I already mentioned and won't repeat.

Complete gibberish. You percentages are made up and You have zero point here other than 'I have no use for it so it must be rubbish'

iOS and iPad, Used by millions, loved by millions. Loads of competitors.
 

prowlmedia

Suspended
Jan 26, 2010
1,589
813
London
If this was the case they would have held off on the MacBook and released the device in October. Yes, Apple needs to understand that they are not separate categories but there's no sign that they haven't changed their minds on this when it's showing that they still believe this 100%.



That is an extremely narrow use case that they won't use as the main reason for making a device.

Not narrow at all. Freaking massive. Millions of designers and artists would love one. Music too.
 

thekeyring

macrumors 68040
Jan 5, 2012
3,485
2,147
London
That's the point.

Since the iPad was announced it felt like there was a push to eliminate the traditional personal computer (including macs) and replaced it with something new and shiny. There were articles all over the net about the impending death of the PC. How the PC is going the same way of the mainframe (never mind that mainframes still play a big role in our lives).

Just look at how the PC Manufacturers responded. We kept getting more and more "post-PC" devices while the traditional PC slowly disappeared from their shelves. As much as I like the Surface, I found most of the devices pushed by PC Manufacturers to be painful. Why the heck do I need a Touch Screen on my laptop whose keyboard cannot be detached? Am I suppose to reach all all the way across my desk to touch a screen?

Microsoft responded by essentially panicking and creating a horrible monstrosity called Windows 8 which effectively handicapped the traditional computer in favour of "Post-PC" devices. They started focusing their development work on Office for the iPad and neglected Office on both the PC and the Mac.

Even Apple neglected its Mac line up for years, while pushing iOS devices on to us. The Mac Pro didn't see an upgrade for years, the Mac Mini also languished for years. The iMac and Macbooks saw some upgrades but even they were be ignored in favour of Apple's new fancy iOS toy. We regularly had machines which ran on a year or two year old processors on the market. In the case of a MacPro there was a two year old CPU and a 4 year old graphics card in a device designed primary for performance. I would have hated to run a business requiring a high performance Mac during these years. I am still running a four year old Macbook Pro, because until recently it was pretty much as good as the other Macbook Pros on the market (despite the fact that AMD and NVDIA released many upgrades to their graphics chips).

5 years later, what more rational people said is coming true. The market has responded. The iPad is not a good content creation device. It is a horrible content creation device. The problem is we mostly use our computers for content creation. Why would I spend 800 dollars on an iPad when I will need a laptop which can do all that an iPad can do plus make content creation much better.

Aside from the Surface (and I guess the XBOX too), every "post-pc" product Microsoft pushed failed. The Surface succeeding because it was good at both content consumption and creation. Most people who got Windows 8 on their computers were frustrated, and many chose to stick to Windows 7. Apple was forced to play catch up on its Mac devices which were neglected for years.

What people haven't really mentioned, is that the iPad isn't stalling because of the Surface. The Surface isn't stealing the tablet market. Samsung hasn't launched a Surface competitor. The Galaxy Tabs are like iPads.

Also, people look at products like the MacBook Air and the rumoured iPad Pro and think they can be one device. But they're not similar. Just the thinnest laptops and most powerful tablets are next to each other in a spectrum of power/portability. There is no way my 15" MacBook Pro is similar to an iPad, or an iPad mini (or, if you go far enough, a Kindle Fire!).

Steve Jobs said "Laptops and smartphones, is there room for a third-category of device in the middle?" Analysts and critics answered "No!" Now, they say "Apple *needs* a device between a tablet and a laptop"!
 

sober2ndthought

macrumors regular
Dec 23, 2013
113
105
Calgary
What people haven't really mentioned, is that the iPad isn't stalling because of the Surface. The Surface isn't stealing the tablet market. Samsung hasn't launched a Surface competitor. The Galaxy Tabs are like iPads.

Also, people look at products like the MacBook Air and the rumoured iPad Pro and think they can be one device. But they're not similar. Just the thinnest laptops and most powerful tablets are next to each other in a spectrum of power/portability. There is no way my 15" MacBook Pro is similar to an iPad, or an iPad mini (or, if you go far enough, a Kindle Fire!).

Steve Jobs said "Laptops and smartphones, is there room for a third-category of device in the middle?" Analysts and critics answered "No!" Now, they say "Apple *needs* a device between a tablet and a laptop"!

One thing, personally I think the Surface is just a Laptop without a pre-attached keyboard.
 

doug in albq

Suspended
Oct 12, 2007
1,449
246
The news keeps telling us the PC (personal computers in general) are DEAD. They imply that smart phones and tablets are the future. But if tablets are dead now also, does that mean the only "computers" people will buy are PHONES? I imagine most people buy those to TEXT more than anything else with other Apps being "occasionally used" by comparison. Thus, are smart phones really that more advanced than an old Motorola RAZR if people don't actually use them as computers? Or is society simply more interested in talking/texting about brouhaha more than anything else?

I think the past is the future. People that used computers in the '80s were computer nerds. Today, people that buy tech gadgets regularly are tech nerds (and yes most of them buy computers too). You average person who isn't really interested in "tech/computers" themselves just want a phone that can text and check the weather and send some Facebook or Twitter comments once in awhile. Hence, I wouldn't expect computer sales in general to be population-level high forever. If you're not fully utilizing what you have, you're not going to buy a new one every year. People used to get new phones every other year due to contracts and subsidizing, but as that ends, the INCENTIVE to even buy a new smart phone every other year will disappear. It's also the law of diminishing returns. The first iPhones weren't that fast or useful. But as they get faster and faster, just how fast do they need to be to check the Weather report? After you have 8 or 12 Megapixels, how many more do you really need if you're not going to print 20x30 wall-sized pictures? Sooner or later, you realize you can save a LOT of money by not constantly upgrading. I bought a Touch and keep a cheap cell phone for calls ($8 a month). What I save by NOT getting an iPhone, I can buy a brand new Macbook Pro every other year if I want (or use the money for something else or just save it). I don't need to surf the Internet at work or at the mall that badly. I'd rather do it at home with a 27" screen, a comfortable chair and a real keyboard and mouse.

I know I tried a bunch of Apps on my iPod Touch when I first got it, but find I use it more for listening to music or watching videos after the newness wore off (how much Bejeweled or Angry Birds can one play, after all? It's not really good for playing more advanced games like a FPS, IMO and never will be due to the lack of advanced controls). Plus advertising and in-app purchases has all but killed much of my interest. At least on a full blown computer you can install an ad-blocker. It's a bit more work (or cost) with mobile devices and doesn't seem to work as well (i.e. many of them are screening the data for you and thus represent a security risk as your selections are being sent to the company/person to be screened of ads. That means they know what you're doing). The small screens suck as well yet tablets are too big to fit in your pocket so they're not any more mobile, IMO than a nice notebook which can do so much more.

Have you seen the movie Idiocracy? Absolutely no "Truck Drivers" anywhere.

We have entered the era where "real" computers are only for professionals and tech nerds.
 

sober2ndthought

macrumors regular
Dec 23, 2013
113
105
Calgary
Have you seen the movie Idiocracy? Absolutely no "Truck Drivers" anywhere.

We have entered the era where "real" computers are only for professionals and tech nerds.

Do you have a job? Do you do work at school? Chances are you are gonna need a full sized computer.

There are a handful of people who will not need one, but most professions will require a full sized keyboard, mouse and display.
 

doug in albq

Suspended
Oct 12, 2007
1,449
246
Do you have a job? Do you do work at school? Chances are you are gonna need a full sized computer.

There are a handful of people who will not need one, but most professions will require a full sized keyboard, mouse and display.

School/College equals future professional.

Job? like working at a fast food restaurant? don't need a computer for that...Or did you mean a professional job?

Thanks for reiterating exactly what I said with your second sentence.
 

sober2ndthought

macrumors regular
Dec 23, 2013
113
105
Calgary
School/College equals future professional.

Job? like working at a fast food restaurant? don't need a computer for that...Or did you mean a professional job?

Thanks for reiterating exactly what I said with your second sentence.

80 percent of the jobs out there will still require a computer. 20 percent are a handful, I was thinking closer to people who worked with their hands.

And anyway if the sales are any indication, people still want the full computer.
 
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The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,276
19,494
UK
Do you have a job? Do you do work at school? Chances are you are gonna need a full sized computer.

There are a handful of people who will not need one, but most professions will require a full sized keyboard, mouse and display.
only if you require to do work at home...
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
Have you seen the movie Idiocracy? Absolutely no "Truck Drivers" anywhere.

We have entered the era where "real" computers are only for professionals and tech nerds.

Consider me a "tech nerd" then. Given I'm nothing like your classical "nerd" I really don't know the fascination with that word to describe people that like high tech gadgets and computers, but use whatever bigoted term makes you feel the most self-important like most Millennials today that think because they have friends on Facebook they are somehow "important" and what other people do doesn't matter at all.
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,276
19,494
UK
Problem with that is do you want an over price media consumption device, when a laptop costs nearly as much, and is a much better deal?
nearly as much? aren't most laptops over 700-1,000+? compared to the ipad £400-500.

I havn't needed to use my laptop for years..tablets is all i need generally for at home
 
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