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eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
28,794
26,885
OP, this is the same 'gotcha' that iPhone 4s users with PowerPC Macs found with iTunes and iOS 7. After updating their phones would no longer sync with iTunes.

Apple used that as a way to push the old 30 pin connector users to newer iPhones.

There are ways and there are ways though. My main Macs are all PowerPC and I have since 2012 worked around iTunes with my iPhone 5, my iPhone 6+ and now my iPhone 6s+.

It's not so easy if you have no access to a newer Mac, but if I am forced to do direct syncing with iTunes I use the MacPro I have at work. Otherwise, a jailbreak helps. My iPad Air 2 is jailbroken and I can mount the filesystem on my desktop. And last but not least, I have Win7 installed on my MBP (2006 vintage) so if there is no other way to deal with the phone outside of work I use that.

In the past I've had a crap PC running Windows and that's worked too.

Apple and other companies can always tray and marginalize me, but I'm a PowerPC Mac user and I'm very used to getting around all the blocks they shove in my way.
 

gordon1234

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2010
580
190
This is one area where Windows has always been brilliant. It's backwards compatibility is incredible and should be applauded.
Actually, it is largely responsible for the low quality of most Windows software compared to OS X. Tons of developers using Windows 95-era APIs and UIs simply because they continue to work on new OSes and updating them is more work.
 

gordon1234

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2010
580
190
Planned Obsolescence. Apple wants you to upgrade to a newer OS. And, in some cases, to do that you need a newer Mac. More $$ for them.

"Planned Obsolescence" should be a banned word on these forums. Not only is OS X now completely free, but the current version runs on just about any Mac made within the last 7 years. Apple's made it about as easy as it's ever been to continue using old hardware.
 
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masotime

macrumors 68030
Jun 24, 2012
2,750
2,644
San Jose, CA
The original iPhone was launched 8 years ago.... you're still using a 6 year old operating system...?

Just upgrade already.... it's insane that people insist on hanging on to old software and hardware for so long. It's this kind of thinking that has forced the world to have to keep supporting crappy things like Windows XP and IE6/7/8 for so long.

Stop holding on to anything older than 4 years old and move on, hardware or software. The tech world moves a lot faster than classic physical goods like cars, furniture etc., people need to change the way they think....
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Oct 11, 2012
3,566
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Unless your running hardware which cannot run anything higher than Snow Leopard I cannot understand why a simple update to a modern version is not the easiest solution.
Changing the look and feel alone can already constitute to bait and switch.
I simply have no reason to change from something that works perfectly for me to something that is a pain to use and is broken sometimes...
Give me back my 4 finger swipe up to show desktop, was that too much to ask?
Give me back the beautiful look and feel of the OS, is that really that hard?
The hardware guy needs to get away from designing software and UI...
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Oct 11, 2012
3,566
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The original iPhone was launched 8 years ago.... you're still using a 6 year old operating system...?

Just upgrade already.... it's insane that people insist on hanging on to old software and hardware for so long. It's this kind of thinking that has forced the world to have to keep supporting crappy things like Windows XP and IE6/7/8 for so long.

Stop holding on to anything older than 4 years old and move on, hardware or software. The tech world moves a lot faster than classic physical goods like cars, furniture etc., people need to change the way they think....
And it is more insane that how I use MY things matter to YOU...
The ultimate crime here is that the same iTunes that is required is WORKING with Windows 7, which is just as old as Snow Leopard...
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Oct 11, 2012
3,566
3,985
Undisclosed location
Snow leopard is out of support.

This is not news.

New iOS 9 features actually require El Capitan if you want to enable them (Sync with new notes for example).
Which, I have NEVER used the Notes app...In fact, I cannot even find anything new in iOS 9 that matters to me...
The only reason I got the 6s is because of the RAM increase and the touch ID that works better than the old 5s.
 

gordon1234

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2010
580
190
Changing the look and feel alone can already constitute to bait and switch.
I simply have no reason to change from something that works perfectly for me to something that is a pain to use and is broken sometimes...
Give me back my 4 finger swipe up to show desktop, was that too much to ask?
Give me back the beautiful look and feel of the OS, is that really that hard?
The hardware guy needs to get away from designing software and UI...

This is exactly what annoys me about people that insist on running outdated software. If you want to keep using it because you're happy with it and it works for you, that's great.

However, in this case it ISN'T working for you. You can't use it with the device you want to use it with. So what you really want is the rest of the world to spend extra time and effort to support your choice never to upgrade. You can't have it both ways. Either stick with what "works" for you and accept that new stuff won't necessarily support it, or upgrade.

At my company, we recently dropped 10.6 support for our Mac product, and it literally halved the amount of work required between releases, as well as halving the QA effort required to certify a release, and this is despite the fact that we still support 10.7 and above. Making complex modern software work properly on 10.6 is a major time sinkhole. It truly is in many cases more work to support that one OS than it is to support every subsequent OS release combined.
 

AbSoluTc

Suspended
Sep 21, 2008
5,104
4,002
And it is more insane that how I use MY things matter to YOU...
The ultimate crime here is that the same iTunes that is required is WORKING with Windows 7, which is just as old as Snow Leopard...

Because of statistics..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

http://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/os-x-market-share-statistics-1-in-5-macs-still-unsupported/

Majority of PC users run Win 7. Majority of OSX users run 10.10/9.

You're 5 OS' behind. It sucks but that's how technology works. Either move up, adapt or have problems. All manufacturers and developers list what software works with what hardware. It clearly shows this on Apple's site regarding the phone and software needed to run it. Ignoring it or not knowing it doesn't change that fact.
 

masotime

macrumors 68030
Jun 24, 2012
2,750
2,644
San Jose, CA
And it is more insane that how I use MY things matter to YOU...

.....If you want to keep using it because you're happy with it and it works for you, that's great.....literally halved the amount of work required between releases, as well as halving the QA effort required to certify a release

gordon1234 has pretty much answered your query. It doesn't matter to me at all, but don't expect to feel entitled that modern hardware and software will still work if you insist on using an outdated platform.
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Oct 11, 2012
3,566
3,985
Undisclosed location
This is exactly what annoys me about people that insist on running outdated software. If you want to keep using it because you're happy with it and it works for you, that's great.

However, in this case it ISN'T working for you. You can't use it with the device you want to use it with. So what you really want is the rest of the world to spend extra time and effort to support your choice never to upgrade. You can't have it both ways. Either stick with what "works" for you and accept that new stuff won't necessarily support it, or upgrade.

At my company, we recently dropped 10.6 support for our Mac product, and it literally halved the amount of work required between releases, as well as halving the QA effort required to certify a release, and this is despite the fact that we still support 10.7 and above. Making complex modern software work properly on 10.6 is a major time sinkhole. It truly is in many cases more work to support that one OS than it is to support every subsequent OS release combined.
But it did not change the fact that the very same software released by Apple would work on a 6 year old competitor OS but not their own...
There is simply no reason for the new iTunes to be necessary to make the iPhone revive from being a paperweight simply because they have messed up with iOS 9.0.
They have buried deep in the spec page on the required iTunes and the fact that they have been advertising the new iPhones no longer needed to use iTunes to start using the phone itself is contradicting themselves.
And running newer software is meaningless if it does not work any better than the old one...
In this case, 10.10 is a whole lot worse than 10.6 in terms of user-friendliness.
 

masotime

macrumors 68030
Jun 24, 2012
2,750
2,644
San Jose, CA
the new iPhones no longer needed to use iTunes to start using the phone itself is contradicting themselves.

You don't need to use iTunes to start using it. You just can't restore because you don't have a version of iTunes that can do the restore.

Well I guess you can just continue to use your iPhone without restoring it....
 

garirry

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2013
1,543
3,904
Canada is my city
Changing the look and feel alone can already constitute to bait and switch.
I simply have no reason to change from something that works perfectly for me to something that is a pain to use and is broken sometimes...
Give me back my 4 finger swipe up to show desktop, was that too much to ask?
Give me back the beautiful look and feel of the OS, is that really that hard?
The hardware guy needs to get away from designing software and UI...
What bait & switch? You're not forced to upgrade.

I guess you're another one of those "Apple died in 2011" guys. Lion is much better than Snow Leopard in terms of features. Mountain Lion is even better if your computer supports it.

That feature still exists.

Opinions. Also, the pre-Yosemite look is exactly the same as on SL.

Now you're just being desperate.


Come on dude. Snow Leopard is 6-year old. Five major updates have been released since. Programs started reducing compatibility with SL for a year now. And Apple has been discontinuing more and more services with SL, iTunes was discontinued for SL one year ago and recently for Lion as well. Update to a more modern OS (I personally don't really like Yosemite, so Mavericks is still very good in your case), and if you're running a computer from 2006, don't you think it's time for a new one?
 
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AbSoluTc

Suspended
Sep 21, 2008
5,104
4,002
But it did not change the fact that the very same software released by Apple would work on a 6 year old competitor OS but not their own...
There is simply no reason for the new iTunes to be necessary to make the iPhone revive from being a paperweight simply because they have messed up with iOS 9.0.
They have buried deep in the spec page on the required iTunes and the fact that they have been advertising the new iPhones no longer needed to use iTunes to start using the phone itself is contradicting themselves.
And running newer software is meaningless if it does not work any better than the old one...
In this case, 10.10 is a whole lot worse than 10.6 in terms of user-friendliness.

See my post above.
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Oct 11, 2012
3,566
3,985
Undisclosed location
You don't need to use iTunes to start using it. You just can't restore because you don't have a version of iTunes that can do the restore.

Well I guess you can just continue to use your iPhone without restoring it....
It would not boot out of the start up screen. How do you this brick?
 

gordon1234

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2010
580
190
But it did not change the fact that the very same software released by Apple would work on a 6 year old competitor OS but not their own...

Not even remotely equivalent. Windows and its longer periods between upgrades and indefinite support for old APIs, and host of built-in compatibility tweaks to keep old software running forever is just a completely different beast.

Most Windows software still supports Windows XP. When Windows XP came out, Macs were still all shipping with OS 9 installed. Should all Mac developers be ensuring their software still runs on OS 9?


And running newer software is meaningless if it does not work any better than the old one...

Except it does work better - the latest version of iTunes runs on it. If you were using it, you wouldn't be having all these problems and complaining.
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Oct 11, 2012
3,566
3,985
Undisclosed location
What bait & switch? You're not forced to upgrade.

I guess you're another one of those "Apple died in 2011" guys. Lion is much better than Snow Leopard in terms of features. Mountain Lion is even better if your computer supports it.

That feature still exists.

Opinions. Also, the pre-Yosemite look is exactly the same as on SL.

Now you're just being desperate.


Come on dude. Snow Leopard is 6-year old. Five major updates have been released since. Programs started reducing compatibility with SL for a year now. And Apple has been discontinuing more and more services with SL, iTunes was discontinued for SL one year ago and recently for Lion as well. Update to a more modern OS (I personally don't really like Yosemite, so Mavericks is still very good in your case), and if you're running a computer from 2006, don't you think it's time for a new one?
First of all, who said I am running a computer from 2006?
If I can actually get Mavericks, I would have compromised...but guess what? It is nowhere to be found anymore...(I have even went as far as going to the dark sides to try to find it...because I absolutely hated the look of the "flat" garbage.)
The idea that Apple died in 2011 had never crossed my mind until you mentioned it. And it really feel like it did.
The moment that they let a hardware guy run the show of designing a software UI is the gateway to hell.
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Oct 11, 2012
3,566
3,985
Undisclosed location
Not even remotely equivalent. Windows and its longer periods between upgrades and indefinite support for old APIs, and host of built-in compatibility tweaks to keep old software running forever is just a completely different beast.

Most Windows software still supports Windows XP. When Windows XP came out, Macs were still all shipping with OS 9 installed. Should all Mac developers be ensuring their software still runs on OS 9?




Except it does work better - the latest version of iTunes runs on it. If you were using it, you wouldn't be having all these problems and complaining.
Are there any Apple software still supporting XP?

And it does NOT work better, at least not for me.
Try using the touch pad, for example without using your thumb and see if you are able to show the desktop. Try fiddle with the settings on that and see.
The latest iTunes? Come on, that one is a clear given that the newer one sucks. Can't find anything like it used to be on the side bar and have to go through multiple clicks to do whatever it was a single click.
 

AbSoluTc

Suspended
Sep 21, 2008
5,104
4,002
I have to say, if you're that unhappy, why are you still using Apple products? That's the big question here.
 

flyinmac

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2006
3,579
2,465
United States
eh, it works with a 6 year old Windows though, so what the heck is with Apple now?


The darn phone won't boot out of the start up loop...

The facts is that all software and hardware companies will provide better product support for Microsoft Windows than any other operating system. The humorous part is that this statement applies to Apple as well.

Apple knows that Windows is where the users are. And, like any other company, Apple will throw more support at Windows than OS X.

I'm a longtime Apple user from the days of the Apple II. But after the last few rounds, I'm migrating over to Windows.

Once I get switched over, I'll keep using my Macs until they die. But I won't buy anymore. My 2006 Mac Pro is happily running Windows 10 Pro 64-BIT natively directly on the hardware. Sadly it won't run OS X 10.8.x or newer. Well, it will, just that Apple hasn't given 10.8 or later permission to install (which is just a matter of editing a file and blessing the Mac Pro).

As of now, I refuse to upgrade to iOS 9 because my contacts, calendar, and data are all in OS X 10.7.5.

I'm not buying a newer Mac to update to iOS 9. That's ridiculous.

Instead I'll migrate my data to Windows on the same machine. And then enjoy better product support from Apple as a Windows user.

I've successfully installed Windows 10 on computers as old as 8 and 10 years old. And they're running great.

Want to get the longest useful life out of your computer? Switch to Windows.

Want the best product support from Apple? Switch to Windows.
 
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garirry

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2013
1,543
3,904
Canada is my city
First of all, who said I am running a computer from 2006?
I never did, I said that if you were running a computer incapable of running the latest version you should upgrade.
If I can actually get Mavericks, I would have compromised...but guess what? It is nowhere to be found anymore...(I have even went as far as going to the dark sides to try to find it...because I absolutely hated the look of the "flat" garbage.)
Dude, just, no. I went to the "dark sides" and found plenty of Mavericks copies on Pirate Bay. Search there dammit. Google obviously won't get you anywhere.
The moment that they let a hardware guy run the show of designing a software UI is the gateway to hell.
It feels now that you really are way too pissed and you NEED to argue about something. What the hell are you talking about? What "hardware guy" are you talking about? What does that have to do with anything.
 

Paddle1

macrumors 601
May 1, 2013
4,813
3,120
And it is more insane that how I use MY things matter to YOU...
The ultimate crime here is that the same iTunes that is required is WORKING with Windows 7, which is just as old as Snow Leopard...
Windows 7 is designed to last longer than Snow Leopard, it's currently the most popular OS, and it was the newest version of Windows until 2012. Microsoft still supports it. iTunes compatibility goes back to OS X Mountain Lion from that same year. Snow Leopard on the other hand was made with mainly 2009-2010 in mind. Apple dropped support for it in February of last year. (Basically, Apple does not find the amount of users still on 10.6 adequate enough to make it worth supporting.)

Either way, you probably should consider upgrading if it's becoming a hassle to use 10.6.
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Oct 11, 2012
3,566
3,985
Undisclosed location
I never did, I said that if you were running a computer incapable of running the latest version you should upgrade.

Dude, just, no. I went to the "dark sides" and found plenty of Mavericks copies on Pirate Bay. Search there dammit. Google obviously won't get you anywhere.

It feels now that you really are way too pissed and you NEED to argue about something. What the hell are you talking about? What "hardware guy" are you talking about? What does that have to do with anything.
My iMac is more than capable of running just about anything (Late 2009 27" model with 32GB RAM upgrade), yet it was running way faster in Snow Leopard than it is now with 10.10. I have yet to find out the reason why.
Hardware guy: Ive. Making UI user unfriendly since day one because of some obsession. Here is an example, the End call button on iOS 7.1 changed from a easily accessible large rectangle with clear wording "End" to a tiny little circle with just the symbol of the handset. Is it making the function any easier to use? It was simply reducing the area on the screen where user can use to end a phone call.
 
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