Ireland May End Apple Tax Residency Loophole

[RoyalElephant]

They wouldn't dare if Steve was still CEO. Let's see... Apple would be out of Ireland in a week and if an Irish citizen wanted to buy an Apple product they would need to travel to the continent... and it would cost them double.

LOL Despite Apple having all those "subsidiaries" based in Ireland they don't have a single Apple Store retail store in the Republic Of Ireland. The only one is in Belfast - Northern Ireland(UK) so I have to travel 100 miles already for my "genius bar appointments".

I think Apple will leave, just as Dell did before. I can see it happening.

 

[bp1000]

Bad move Ireland

They are bang out of luck (irish luck ) and bang out of money so lets bleed the apple cashcow.

What will happen? Apple winds down it's European headquarters, distribution and assembly lines. How many jobs is that.

Ireland you need Apple not the other way round.

I know people have a bee in their bonnet about these big multinationals not paying tax but if you cut their fingers off they will go elsewhere. The top 10 companies that employee the most people in Ireland are all tech companies apart from a pharmaceutical company (and no dont mess with them either). They are only there because of the tax laws. Having thousands of people employed, paying tax and taking finance, mortgages etc is far more important than taking millions in tax revenue.

 

[Zerilos]

Just remember that companies don't actually pay taxes.... they just collect them.

Taxes are overhead, a cost of doing business. Guess who pays for them?

Competion will not cease to be a factor if Apple and other corperations are forced to pay their taxes. Ultiamtely, there is a limit to what these companies can charge for their products; go past that limit and your market disappears. As things stand Apple's profits are siting unused overseas and/or lining the pockets of executives and multi-billion dollar investiment firms.

I do agree that you can certainly overtax a buisness (or indivdual) to the point where productivity is no longer worth the effort...but we're far from that point.

 

[ccuilla]

As things stand Apple's profits are siting unused overseas and/or lining the pockets of executives and multi-billion dollar investiment firms.

That's actually what you think isn't it?!

 

[samcraig]

No one has said "They should just BUY Ireland" yet?

People are slackin'

 

[aziatiklover]

They want the Apple pie piece!

 

[Tiger8]

Are you okay with 0% income tax? Every year? And guess what, even so-called property owners are mostly renting their property from banks and the government anyway. You don't have sovereignty over your property, all you have is a government-sanctioned property TITLE that grants you exclusive use of the land that's really still owned by government. And if you don't pay the rent-whoops-I-mean-property-taxes, guess who gets to seize your property? That's right, the government, because it's not reall your property, it's theirs.

This reminds me of the 'Petoria' episode of family guy, when we discover that the land Peter's house is on is not even part of the United States.

 

[thekev]

It could backfire. Ireland needs all the jobs it can get. While it might close some loopholes, they should be careful not to penalize companies with significant operations there.

The last time people claimed it was the responsibility of governments to adjust for laws that do not work as intended. There's no perfect way to fix all laws. These articles have always lead to a string of trash posts like those I quoted below where everyone quotes 1/1000th of 1% of the tax code, simplifies that, and then claims to have the panacea for such problems at their fingertips.

Income taxes are such an absolute joke, penalizing people and corporations for productivity. A tax on land ownership is infinitely more logical because it incentivizes maximally efficient use of all land rather than hoarding, squatting, etc.

It also has other weird side effects. You might look at California's problems. They tried to cap property tax increases due to periods of rampant inflation. It enables people to keep their homes for many years, yet causes other problematic side effects.

Corporate taxes are hidden taxes on consumers. Does no one think taxes aren't figured into the prices of products?

There are deductions on foreign tax paid assuming you claimed all available returns and exemptions there, although the paperwork is quite annoying. Corporate taxes is one of many factors. It's not a direct determination of retail price. In the end they will just do whatever results in the highest profits. If corporate taxes was eliminated, it doesn't mean that prices would necessarily decrease proportionate to the cost savings.

 

[KPOM]

The last time people claimed it was the responsibility of governments to adjust for laws that do not work as intended. There's no perfect way to fix all laws. These articles have always lead to a string of trash posts like those I quoted below where everyone quotes 1/1000th of 1% of the tax code, simplifies that, and then claims to have the panacea for such problems at their fingertips.

In one way, shape, or form, people ultimately pay all taxes. Maybe it is in the form of higher prices, lower salaries, lower dividends, or reduced stock prices, but the idea that corporate taxes are the be-all-end-all is unrealistic, to say the least. Even countries with expansive welfare states (e.g. Sweden) finance them primarily through personal taxes.

That said, corporate taxation is a reality. My point with Ireland is that they need to be careful that the amendments don't wipe out a "good" tax feature along with the "loopholes." One person's loophole is another person's "stimulus" or "equitable relief." Most of these loopholes involve complex transactions structured around otherwise legitimate attempts at tax fairness. If not done properly, closing a loophole could expose companies to double-taxation.

 

[aristotle]

If you expect land owners to carry the tax burden then I suppose all renters are willing to give up their rights to voting and citizenship?

If you are not taxed then why should you deserve representation?

Some countries used only provide voting rights to land owners.

 

[alexgowers]

There should be no loopholes at all.

They are created by the corrupt for the super rich.

If I were in government I would close them all in my country then maybe it might be more profitable to run a business that doesn't come from abroad!

I mean come on it is only harming the economy allowing these guys to dodge tax when every single company that is not using a loop hole or can't afford to find one and defend it is being screwed.

It's about time the world redressed the debt, the imbalance of the rich to the poor. The rich will hate it but it takes some righteous people to finally realise they are only rich because they are draining the money off proper businesses that play ball.

 

[kdarling]

Plenty of other companies have this exact tax-avoidance strategy as well.

Supposedly Apple invented this particular "double Irish with a Dutch sandwich".

the US requires companies to pay taxes on profits earned outside the US that have already been taxed by other governments.

The US only charges the difference between the taxes owed to bring income into the US, and what was already paid in taxes to other governments.

--

What kills me is that corporations are once again asking for a tax amnesty to bring in their external funds, claiming they'll use to help create jobs, etc.

The problem is, they didn't any such thing the last time that was tried.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

 

[9000]

I'd just leave it open. "Aawww yeah, huge American corporations pay taxes in our country get trolled!"
Not that I think it's fair.

----------

If you expect land owners to carry the tax burden then I suppose all renters are willing to give up their rights to voting and citizenship?

If you are not taxed then why should you deserve representation?

Some countries used only provide voting rights to land owners.

It makes sense. Why should people be allowed to vote on things paid for by taxes that they don't pay?

I finally looked up the Obamacare tax sources, and it's ridiculous. Some very specific groups are taxed for it, and some of these taxes are on things that are pretty irrelevant. A big tax on investment income for certain people, a tax on a certain bio-fuel, and a medicare payroll tax specifically on the self-employed. The fine you pay for not buying health insurance is greater if you have higher income.

 

[ccuilla]

Supposedly Apple invented this particular "double Irish with a Dutch sandwich".

"Discovered" is probably the word you're looking for.

 

[thekev]

In one way, shape, or form, people ultimately pay all taxes. Maybe it is in the form of higher prices, lower salaries, lower dividends, or reduced stock prices, but the idea that corporate taxes are the be-all-end-all is unrealistic, to say the least. Even countries with expansive welfare states (e.g. Sweden) finance them primarily through personal taxes.

I am aware of all of that. It is paid somewhere.

Most of these loopholes involve complex transactions structured around otherwise legitimate attempts at tax fairness. If not done properly, closing a loophole could expose companies to double-taxation.

It seems insensible to allow laws with undesirable side effects to remain as a matter of convention. We can all complain about high tax rates, but only very large companies can profit from that level of circumnavigation. The smaller ones would spend more on accounting fees than they save. There's no way for me to comment on double taxation within this thread or whether the change in laws sets some companies up for that.

 

[9000]

Corporate taxes are hidden taxes on consumers. Does no one think taxes aren't figured into the prices of products?

Actually, that's not directly true. I'm sure they sell at the highest price they can get away with.

 

[whooleytoo]

Bad move Ireland

They are bang out of luck (irish luck ) and bang out of money so lets bleed the apple cashcow.

What will happen? Apple winds down it's European headquarters, distribution and assembly lines. How many jobs is that.

Ireland you need Apple not the other way round.

I know people have a bee in their bonnet about these big multinationals not paying tax but if you cut their fingers off they will go elsewhere. The top 10 companies that employee the most people in Ireland are all tech companies apart from a pharmaceutical company (and no dont mess with them either). They are only there because of the tax laws. Having thousands of people employed, paying tax and taking finance, mortgages etc is far more important than taking millions in tax revenue.

Ireland aren't exactly 'cutting their fingers off'. The country still has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the world. It's just closing loopholes which mean companies (including Apple) were avoiding paying even that low rate by exploiting looseness in Irish tax residency law.

It's not as if Apple is going to move business to the US (35%?) or the UK (23%?) instead of Ireland's 12.5% because of this change.

 

[ccuilla]

Actually, that's not directly true. I'm sure they sell at the highest price they can get away with.

Yes it is true. Your second sentence is a secondary issue that's irrelevant to the first claim (that taxes are paid by the customers/consumers.)

 

[Ryth]

I really wish Apple has to start paying all that tax to the US and even has to pay back taxes to the US so our government can use it for wage increases for president, congress, and house members as they are doing such a wonderful job.

What money is left over can go into a fund the government can use to help create more technology and software to intrude into its citizen's lives.

I know that money would be much better in the hands of our government rather than waiting in the banks of a company like Apple that may very well be used to pay for the R&D of a revolutionary new piece of tech.

Nice sarcasm.

 

[rdlink]

Are you ok with 25% real estate tax? every year?

People will simply stop owning, they'll rent

From whom?

 

[9000]

Yes it is true. Your second sentence is a secondary issue that's irrelevant to the first claim (that taxes are paid by the customers/consumers.)

No, it's not. If company A is suddenly taxed more tomorrow, they're not necessarily going to raise their prices. Maybe I should have said that "any rational company will charge whatever they can get away with."

Hint: Apple and their RAM options.

 

[whooleytoo]

Just remember that companies don't actually pay taxes.... they just collect them.

Taxes are overhead, a cost of doing business. Guess who pays for them?

That's just a matter of perspective.

I could say I (and people like me) pay the corporate tax for the companies I do business with. You could also say the company that employs me pays it, as all my money comes from them. Or, you could say my employer's clients pay it, as all the company's revenue comes from them. Or the clients' customers pay it, as all the clients' money comes from them.......etc...etc...

It's just a circular point.

 

[Michael Goff]

Poor Apple.

Evil Irish Government, trying to stop Apple from using tax loopholes to get out of paying taxes. What do they think taxes are, a way to fund the Government?

/s

 

[faustfire]

Competion will not cease to be a factor if Apple and other corperations are forced to pay their taxes. Ultiamtely, there is a limit to what these companies can charge for their products; go past that limit and your market disappears. As things stand Apple's profits are siting unused overseas and/or lining the pockets of executives and multi-billion dollar investiment firms.

I do agree that you can certainly overtax a buisness (or indivdual) to the point where productivity is no longer worth the effort...but we're far from that point.

Exactly.

Companies charge the prices that the market will bear.

 

[sboultbee]

The US is also one of the only countries that double taxes people and businesses. If you are an American you have to pay income taxes no matter where you earn money in the world, and even if you pay taxes to a foreign government. Same for businesses.

Yes, but you're allowed a credit on your U.S. taxes for the tax you pay to the foreign government.

There's a calculation to be done in order to determine the exact amount of the credit, but it is there to offset the double taxation.