Is Google winning the future?

[spinedoc77]

I agree with all except for the last statement. I suspect the Pixel will be Google's vehicle to release new features/functions, exclusively to their personal platform, first each year. They'll then roll them out to their partners afterwards. But lets face it, considering it generally takes 3rd party manufacturers another 6 months to update their software regardless, it's not like they're really doing anything different than what we've seen for years. How many phone's out right now are running Nougat?

Yeah that's possible, but it seems like they would damage their reputation with the oems. Imagine if Microsoft left some windows features which only worked on the surface tablets. They are already experimenting with their own AI's and it wouldn't take much for them to switch. But even so I find it hard to imagine that Google would limit Assistant as an exclusive and risk losing all that information gathering and eyeballs on the millions of devices that are left out.

Now if it's tied to new OS releases (which I did mention) then that's understandable. But as it stands right now Google specifically has taken this away from Nexus devices which can have the latest Nougat. So as an issue it may depend on the specific oem. Maybe a smaller issue with Samsung who's updates may not be released for 8 months later, but maybe more of an issue for oneplus who may release sooner.

Lastly, contradicting both our points about updates being tied to an OS is that Google has worked hard to make it's services separate from the OS and most of them are released independently, and don't need oem or carrier approval. Of course it's possible Google will set down hardware requirements for a phone to run Assistant, but eventually the oems would comply. Either way I still see it as a bad move for Google.

 

[v0lume4]

It's hard to say... what I can say is that Apple, generally, has always dominated hardware (save for their recent competition from the Galaxy S7E). The folks at Apple are just hardware masterminds. And we all know that Apple is planning for some breakthrough technology for next year's iPhone. But for how long is hardware enough?

That's the question I've been asking myself as I plan on getting the Pixel later this year. I've gotten tired of being forced to use Apple's integrated services when the competition's services have far surpassed Apple's. When we reach a plateau in hardware design (there's only so much you can do with a slab form-factor), the next place to turn to for innovation is software (notably, artificial intelligence). And I think that Google is in a much better position than Apple in terms of software.

It's funny--Apple has always been a hardware company (with great software, mind you; come on, you know that there was no comparison between iOS and Android a few years ago). And Google has always been a software company. Fast forward to now, 2016, and while Apple still makes killer hardware, Apple's software (services, mainly) have fallen behind, whereas the competition's hardware and software has caught up and surpassed Apple. And now, Apple's biggest competitor, Google, is taking their great software and putting it on a phone of their own. How long until Apple's software catches up? Can it?

The iPhone next year will probably put other cell phones to shame for a year or two, but again: for how long is hardware enough?

 

[Savor]

There is no sole winner to me. They are all great at certain areas.

Mobile OS, online services - Google
Computers - Apple
TVs, memory, mobile photography, SoC - Samsung

I said it before many times, I can't stand iOS. I find the irony that iPhones get all the media attention and money when I find their Mac line far superior because they do use a file manager and do have torrent apps while iOS have neither out of the box. In less than 8 hours, I will finally purchase my first MacBook, a 2016 Air (128gb/8gb) for $850. All I care about is long battery life and the update on Oct 27 might lose the standard USB, MagSafe, and SD slot. So the older one seems better for me and Microsoft Windows has turned me off so much lately. The whole Note7 fiasco really put a wrench at me getting a flagship this year that I decided to get a MacBook instead.

Ecosystems breeds fanboys and fangirls. Many companies are all good at certain things. There is no perfect. Like I used to love Sony at almost anything and now can't stand them in most aspects except in gaming. I think Apple excels better at computers since that's where they first began. Call me old school, I am more of a fan of Motorola and Nokia when it comes to mobile hardware. I like LG in mobile and appliances. I love Google when it comes to services. I am enjoying my Samsung 4K curved display Smart TV which works fast.

All are good. Just intermingle and use them all. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Picking an actual winner seems pointless to me. Listen, the Note7 might be a loser to some of you but that still is the best smartphone of 2016 even with thr arrival of the V20 and Pixels and I hope Samsung never ends the Note series because that's the best smartphone series ever. I just got a free hand me down Verizon-branded Note 3 still on Android 5.0. The 2013 phone is rock solid. Long live the Note...

For months, I would bash Apple AND Samsung. And here I am getting a MacBook Air later before noon, watching on a Samsung 4K TV, and using a Note 3 with a slight hairline crack as my secondary phone because I am finally realizing the pure beauty of owning a Note phone with an S-Pen and still has a removable battery. Apple, Google, Samsung, love them all. No need to pick a side. True gadget lovers don't really care picking a winner.

 

[5105973]

There is no sole winner to me. They are all great at certain areas.

Mobile OS, online services - Google
Computers - Apple
TVs, memory, mobile photography, SoC - Samsung

I said it before many times, I can't stand iOS. I find the irony that iPhones get all the media attention and money when I find their Mac line far superior because they do use a file manager and do have torrent apps while iOS have neither out of the box. In less than 8 hours, I will finally purchase my first MacBook, a 2016 Air (128gb/8gb) for $850. All I care about is long battery life and the update on Oct 27 might lose the standard USB, MagSafe, and SD slot. So the older one seems better for me and Microsoft Windows has turned me off so much lately. The whole Note7 fiasco really put a wrench at me getting a flagship this year that I decided to get a MacBook instead.

Ecosystems breeds fanboys and fangirls. Many companies are all good at certain things. There is no perfect. Like I used to love Sony at almost anything and now can't stand them in most aspects except in gaming. I think Apple excels better at computers since that's where they first began. Call me old school, I am more of a fan of Motorola and Nokia when it comes to mobile hardware. I like LG in mobile and appliances. I love Google when it comes to services. I am enjoying my Samsung 4K curved display Smart TV which works fast.

All are good. Just intermingle and use them all. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Picking an actual winner seems pointless to me. Listen, the Note7 might be a loser to some of you but that still is the best smartphone of 2016 even with thr arrival of the V20 and Pixels and I hope Samsung never ends the Note series because that's the best smartphone series ever. I just got a free hand me down Verizon-branded Note 3 still on Android 5.0. The 2013 phone is rock solid. Long live the Note...

For months, I would bash Apple AND Samsung. And here I am getting a MacBook Air later before noon, watching on a Samsung 4K TV, and using a Note 3 with a slight hairline crack as my secondary phone because I am finally realizing the pure beauty of owning a Note phone with an S-Pen and still has a removable battery. Apple, Google, Samsung, love them all. No need to pick a side. True gadget lovers don't really care picking a winner.

Welcome back! I agree. I hate the fanboyism (I find it closes the mind to logic and reason) and think it's excessive to make declarations of loyalty to ecosystems. It's one thing to say I'm immersed in an ecosystem or have significant investment in an ecosystem. But loyalty? To me that's a more personal commitment reserved for friends and family. It implies that to go with a competing product is disloyal, with all of the negative social consequences that follow disloyalty. And that to me is illogical; I don't believe there should be negative consequences for buying a consumer product that suits a customer better.

I can't be loyal to a corporation because they are first and foremost, by law, beholden to their investors. For the sake of their investors they will try to get my money by either offering me an irresistibly good product, or gouging me or exploiting me. I think Steve Jobs was committed foremost to the first option. Since his death I see evidence of Apple mixing up methods 1 and 2 with an alarmingly growing emphasis on the second option.

Google is a mixed bag with an emphasis on exploiting customer data. But they've caught on to a form of balance where they are offering services that make the relationship feel more equitable. They weren't known for gouging so much, but the Pixel's premium pricing for some less than stellar specs and features leaves that question open. If they've done like Apple and optimized their specs and feature set to deliver a premium experience, they could redeem themselves from accusations of gouging.

Samsung is such an interesting case. They charge a lot for their flagships but deliver some great features and they give away a lot of stuff and deals. I definitely don't feel gouged dealing with them. They take some data but don't do anything particularly intrusive that I've noticed. They're products have irresistible unique feature sets. They fall down a bit on customer service when problems arise and on QC, and that's where my concerns lie.

I like my 4K tv from them, too. I didn't get the curved screen because we often have a lot of family spread around the room so we prefer traditional flat panels. But I thought that was an interesting display.

I love my MacBook Pro. I am happy with most of Apple's products but for now I've moved away from their phones, which I still think are good. But I'm enjoying Android features a bit more than iOS 10 right now. iOS 10 is like a pleasant tasting dinner that doesn't agree with my stomach too well. I know that makes no sense but I struggle to articulate my feelings about iOS 10.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Love the doom and gloom scenarios like that. For that alone i will give you 10/10. Other than that this is pure nonsense.

How is this nonsense? I stand by what I said with a few caveats: 1) what "winning" means is open to interpretation 2) winning might seem to imply there are losers which isn't necessarily true 3) the "future" is open ended, but is intended to project into the next 10 or so years. Nobody knows anything beyond that anyway.

I don't think Apple is DOOMED. I imagine they will be a very profitable company through the next 10 years (again anyone who attempts to project beyond that is a little foolish). I imagine there will be many profitable tech companies through the next 10 years. I guess the point that I'm trying to look at is which ecosystem do I want to invest into to give me the best overall user experience moving forward. Best "user experience" is a combination of hardware, software, services, integration with other services, and expandability into more areas (cars, AI, wearables, etc) in the future.

Thus far I have gone from thrilled with Apple's ecosystem to merely satisfied. As I've watched the tech landscape I've seen a lot of things on the google side that excites me. That being said, I am still satisfied with Apple. Watching the momentum of the industry will me satisfaction continue to diminish? Right now I like the simplicity, I'm comfortable, and I'm already financially invested. Due to the nature of the ecosystem I'd rather be all-in on one or the other. The more I continue to buy Apple products the less likely I am to switch "because I just bought an iPhone/Apple Watch/Mac/etc". So basically I want to "buy in" to the right ecosystem that will provide me the best overall experience going forward.

This is why I'd like to try to sit out of any tech refresh for as long as possible (shooting for 2 years), and then decide if I want to stay Apple or switch whole hog (I'd definitely try to test out the other options more and more prior to switching). With my 2013 MacBook Air, 2013 iPad mini 2, 2014 iPhone 6+, 2015 Apple Watch. Therefore, I imagine that in 2018 I'm going to be absolutely DYING for a tech refresh in at least 3 out of the 4 (MBA should be ok).

 

[Fernandez21]

I don't know how big something like the virtual assistant is going to be, but I just don't see many "normal" people using something like that. We've seen this several times, with 3d screens, Google glass, VR, all those things being touted as the next big thing. So while the virtual assistant might be great, I don't see non tech people using it that much.

Where I can see the virtual assistant making a huge difference is if Google can get that on Android Wear and Android Auto, I think that's where they can "own" the future.

 

[spinedoc77]

I don't know how big something like the virtual assistant is going to be, but I just don't see many "normal" people using something like that. We've seen this several times, with 3d screens, Google glass, VR, all those things being touted as the next big thing. So while the virtual assistant might be great, I don't see non tech people using it that much.

Where I can see the virtual assistant making a huge difference is if Google can get that on Android Wear and Android Auto, I think that's where they can "own" the future.

What I've found is that many times using an assistant takes just as long as just doing an internet search. Search engines are quite good at deciphering a question. Some things are kind of neat though. The other night I wanted to add a note, not a reminder but just a note on a thought I had. I was in my car and told siri to write me a note and it did. What surprised me more was an hour later I asked Siri to add to my note and it added to my previous note what I told it to. That was kind of cool and useful for an assistant IMO.

 

[tbayrgs]

Virtual assistants may not be the 'present' but I think they are definitely the future---think like the movie 'Her.' (wouldn't mind having Scarlett Johanssen whispering in my ear ). Being able to have a wearable ear piece that is fairly nondescript with long battery life allowing full-time access to a fully functional AI...that's where I think we're ultimately headed. And in that regard, I think Google's in a better position than anyone.

 

[Tig Bitties]

I personally find both Siri and Assistant to be just kind of meh, and not exciting and definitely not doing enough correctly. But baby steps i suppose.

I want full on Artificial Intelligence on my phone. Where really being hands off 100℅ works 100℅ perfectly. Talk to my phone to do things, without pressing a button, and speaking normally or in slang sometimes, and it understanding me 100℅, without having to repeat the command slowly again or touching the phone.

I want Star Trek Next Generation type assistant, "Computer-book my flight to Cleveland from Chicago to the World Series and schedule Ubor to pick me up Tuesday morning". I want that all done hands free, not touching the phone.

It seems that will eventually come, but is years off. Until then I find these current smartphone assistants to be battery drainers, and not as useful as seems.

 

[apolloa]

I think one of the major competitors in all this is being forgotten about, Amazon. They are HEAVILY pushing services, their services work and are reliable, they are a household name and pretty much everyone uses them and they have great trust and customer service reputation built up.
I think they are potential 'winners' MORE so then anyone else. I love using Amazon services, so does the next person..

When others like Apple use your server farms you know you are a player. Amazon are already doing g what Apple is freaking of with television and I hate to say it, they seem to be having more success at it currently too.

Thekr Alexa service seems to work very well and is gathering great third party support already.

Yeah I feel Amazon will be at or very near the top for services in the future.

 

[Technarchy]

I personally find both Siri and Assistant to be just kind of meh, and not exciting and definitely not doing enough correctly. But baby steps i suppose.

I want full on Artificial Intelligence on my phone. Where really being hands off 100℅ works 100℅ perfectly. Talk to my phone to do things, without pressing a button, and speaking normally or in slang sometimes, and it understanding me 100℅, without having to repeat the command slowly again or touching the phone.

I want Star Trek Next Generation type assistant, "Computer-book my flight to Cleveland from Chicago to the World Series and schedule Ubor to pick me up Tuesday morning". I want that all done hands free, not touching the phone.

It seems that will eventually come, but is years off. Until then I find these current smartphone assistants to be battery drainers, and not as useful as seems.

We are certainly working toward that type of computing experience.

Virtual assistant is just a code word for fledgling AI. Baby steps are being taken.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

This is a really hard one to predict. It depends really on what's going on inside the HQ in Cupertino. There are hints of strife and a hostile management from the members of Viv who fled Apple in the wake of Steve's death. There is the sudden death of the car project. There are all the accumulated signs of the ship not being run very tight, such as buggy software releases and now noticeably more buggy hardware (hissing, connectivity issues, fit and finish issues to name a few topics that have cropped up). Also stock never seems to be available when you want it.

It's easy to look at all of those kinds of things and take it as a really bad sign.

But if you look at Apple's acquisitions in the last two years, they bought some pretty promising players in the field of AI and augmented reality and health. I'm not sure Tim is interested in virtual reality so I don't think we will see anything with a wow factor in that area unless he is trying to misdirect us. I don't think he is because augmented reality fits in better with other things Apple is doing to get us more engaged with each other and our surroundings rather than isolated. Even if Tim didn't know how to pronounce "Pokemon" he seemed tuned into how the game worked to get people out of the house, together and more fit.

At least the nature of the acquisitions and the functions of the new offices in various countries look like they could be meaningful investments in a cohesive long term strategy to produce products that can change how we interact with our homes, our entertainment, how we communicate, and how we look after our health and finess. When Tim alludes to focusing on these areas, it strongly suggests he may finally be focusing on technology that relates to each other and to us again better than a car pulled out of nowhere. I think the dude may at last be getting in touch with some semblance of focus and vision again.

The question remains if Apple can use these resources in a sensible way. They really need editors. People who can look at the late stage prototypes and do what Steve used to do and ask "What the hell were you thinking?" And who aren't afraid to say "This makes no sense at all." or "that looks ridiculous, refine it."

I'm not counting Apple out by any means. But I am exploring other options as any prudent consumer should.

Great post, Mrs. Mom. You do write some of the most thoughtful posts on this forum.

To my mind, Apple is currently in a state of flux. Tim Cook has been at the helm for five years, and it feels like this is a natural break in the season. I, too, get the feeling that there is a lot of tension at Apple, and I think a lot of that is because of the emphasis moving to services in tech generally. On one hand, Apple have reaped huge revenue from IAPs, largely due to games. On the other hand, their services are a pale shadow of Google's and the chasm between them simply won't be bridged any time soon.

I worry for the future of Apple. No, they're not going out of business, and will no doubt have huge profits for the foreseeable future. But I have never seen so much negative sentiment surrounding Apple this year since I started using Apple products in 2001. For all the genius of Ive, I feel that Apple need to replace him and Eddy Cue and Tim Cook, and probably many other senior staff. I feel that Apple's whole culture is wrong for tech today. It's not necessarily anyone's fault; it is a culture that was nurtured by Steve Jobs, and worked brilliantly when Jobs was CEO. But it's not working with him gone. We need new people to transform Apple's culture and help the company to compete in services.

 

[Tig Bitties]

Back to the Apple company being stale right now. I tend to agree, with Tim Cook at the helm, I think his job was to keep her steady as she goes, don't rock the boat with possible risky bold moves at this time, keep the money machine flowing, and nothing radical changed.

But...that will change, and Apple will start innovation again soon IMO.

I think the iPhone 8 or whatever they call next Summer's phone will be their fresh start again, down the new path.

 

[Gypsy36]

I very much want there to be competition in the game because that breeds innovation and I find Apple is falling behind what they used to be in terms of product and service.

That being said, I couldn't care less about AI, the google data mining practice concerns me and, when I look at their new phone, I see an iphone on the android system. The visual similarities, even in the ads are a little startling.

 

[Tig Bitties]

Wake me once we have true Artificial Intelligence A.I. on our phones, with new battery tech that lasts several days with heavy use. That will come some day, but I think that's a decade or more away.

 

[spinedoc77]

We are certainly working toward that type of computing experience.

Virtual assistant is just a code word for fledgling AI. Baby steps are being taken.

IMO virtual assistant is just another phrase for google search.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

IMO virtual assistant is just another phrase for google search.

Then you don't understand Virtual Assistant at all

 

[spinedoc77]

Then you don't understand Virtual Assistant at all

I understand the concept, but my concept of it differs than the current implementation.

 

[Tig Bitties]

Also if you enable everything on as far as hands free assistance on modern smartphones, so it's always listening, and doesn't need to be picked up and tapped to activate. That's a MAJOR battery waster, and just drains power.

Smartphones need way better battery technology, not just large 4,000mAh batteries, but new tech that will have very thin and small batteries like 1,500mAh sized, while offering the stamina of like a 10,000mAh battery. That's what I want to see, a phone that can be unplugged for days, and still have true Artificial Intelligence little Data from Star Trek Next Generation sitting inside your phone, doing everything you ask of it, completely hands free, never even picking up the phone once, never having to repeat yourself, it should just work as if you were talking to a true to life robot from a Sci-Fi movie. Until that day, I don;t care for this current gen stuff

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Also if you enable everything on as far as hands free assistance on modern smartphones, so it's always listening, and doesn't need to be picked up and tapped to activate. That's a MAJOR battery waster, and just drains power.

Smartphones need way better battery technology, not just large 4,000mAh batteries, but new tech that will have very thin and small batteries like 1,500mAh sized, while offering the stamina of like a 10,000mAh battery. That's what I want to see, a phone that can be unplugged for days, and still have true Artificial Intelligence little Data from Star Trek Next Generation sitting inside your phone, doing everything you ask of it, completely hands free, never even picking up the phone once, never having to repeat yourself, it should just work as if you were talking to a true to life robot from a Sci-Fi movie. Until that day, I don;t care for this current gen stuff

That's just hilariously inaccurate. Phones have had handsfree for a while now and it doesn't "majorly waste" the battery.

Do some reading up on co-processors and big.LITTLE before you post misinformation.

 

[epicrayban]

In light of some of our frustrations with Apple's latest products, including the newly announced MBPs, here's a great article from Forbes. And basically what I've been warning about for years:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/10/30/whats-wrong-with-apple/#306c41152c66

What's Wrong with Apple?

Apple is no longer the darling of the tech world it once was. It used to be that if you wrote something that even mildly suggested problems at the company, you were subjected to howls of execration by a seemingly endless legion of Apple fan boys. Yet clearly, those days are now over.


It goes on to say:

The present technological environment is vastly different than in the late 90’s. Today, the nascent technologies are cloud and cognitive computing, which require different culture and capabilities than devices do. Even if Steve Jobs were still alive and actively managing the company, it is not at all clear that Apple could retain its dominance.

The truth is that product innovation is fundamentally different than technological innovation. Apple excels at the former, which requires a deep understanding of the consumer, tightly integrated operations and strong engineering and design capabilities. It is much worse at the latter, which favors exploration and a more open approach.


So is Google winning the future? Don't know, but they're in a good position to. Apple has changed; that or our view of them has to change. Unfortunately.

 

[ag29]

Smartphones need way better battery technology, not just large 4,000mAh batteries, but new tech that will have very thin and small batteries like 1,500mAh sized, while offering the stamina of like a 10,000mAh battery. That's what I want to see, a phone that can be unplugged for days, and still have true Artificial Intelligence little Data from Star Trek Next Generation sitting inside your phone, doing everything you ask of it, completely hands free, never even picking up the phone once, never having to repeat yourself, it should just work as if you were talking to a true to life robot from a Sci-Fi movie. Until that day, I don;t care for this current gen stuff

It's only been 9 years since the original Iphone came out and there's been major improvements, and I wouldn't doubt it if within the next 5-10 years everything you're asking for will be there.

 

[Michael Goff]

In terms of services, I think it'd be silly to discount Microsoft.

 

[The Game 161]

In light of some of our frustrations with Apple's latest products, including the newly announced MBPs, here's a great article from Forbes. And basically what I've been warning about for years:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/10/30/whats-wrong-with-apple/#306c41152c66

What's Wrong with Apple?

Apple is no longer the darling of the tech world it once was. It used to be that if you wrote something that even mildly suggested problems at the company, you were subjected to howls of execration by a seemingly endless legion of Apple fan boys. Yet clearly, those days are now over.


It goes on to say:

The present technological environment is vastly different than in the late 90’s. Today, the nascent technologies are cloud and cognitive computing, which require different culture and capabilities than devices do. Even if Steve Jobs were still alive and actively managing the company, it is not at all clear that Apple could retain its dominance.

The truth is that product innovation is fundamentally different than technological innovation. Apple excels at the former, which requires a deep understanding of the consumer, tightly integrated operations and strong engineering and design capabilities. It is much worse at the latter, which favors exploration and a more open approach.


So is Google winning the future? Don't know, but they're in a good position to. Apple has changed; that or our view of them has to change. Unfortunately.

Until people stop to buy the apple product things will always be an apple world in terms of success and sales. People buy or upgrade even when they aren't that impressed.

I'm sure the 2017 iphone will be the highest seller ever next year if rumours come true. There is at least more balance now in the market. Hopefully google keep improving and samsung get back on track as samsung phones are still more impressive than what google has right now imo

 

[spinedoc77]

That's just hilariously inaccurate. Phones have had handsfree for a while now and it doesn't "majorly waste" the battery.

Do some reading up on co-processors and big.LITTLE before you post misinformation.

That's one thing that amazes me about the iPhone, even with Siri always listening I'm still floored when I turn on the phone and see 100% after an entire day of being off the charger, but not being turned on.

But back on topic, has anyone else just kind of stopped using this stuff? I just found that many things were just glorified internet searches and I could accomplish a lot more if I just paused and concentrated on my phone for a minute. I still use Siri for hands free type of stuff, but the whole assistant thing just doesn't seem very useful to me, maybe I'm just not getting it, or didn't give enough of my information to it.
[doublepost=1478134482][/doublepost]

Until people stop to buy the apple product things will always be an apple world in terms of success and sales. People buy or upgrade even when they aren't that impressed.

I'm sure the 2017 iphone will be the highest seller ever next year if rumours come true. There is at least more balance now in the market. Hopefully google keep improving and samsung get back on track as samsung phones are still more impressive than what google has right now imo

It seems like the turning point is that Apple is abandoning its loyal fanbase, but creating a new fanbase in terms of the masses of consumers out there. The MBP is pitiful IMO, but it's breaking sales records. There are a hell of a lot more regular consumers out there than us fanboys, and Apple realizes that means more money. It's a shame they couldn't find a way to appease both camps, but profit is profit.

What Apple has to be careful of is losing the cool factor. This was because all the artistic types and "rebels" used their device, and it's always fashionable to be the "rebel", until the rebel becomes the establishment. It's interesting because the rebel was always fighting against beige box oems and Microsoft, but Microsoft has become a sort of rebel, releasing product after product showing brand new functionality, styling, etc and shaping the market, slowly becoming the cool kid on the block. Hindsight is scary, that's how fast these things happen. Who would have thought Sony would have fallen off the top of the world like they did?