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lucasgladding

macrumors 6502
Feb 16, 2007
319
1
Waterloo, Ontario
Building this particular website in a CMS would be highly recommendable and my advice would be to use either Wordpress, Joomla or Drupal.

+1 for Drupal. I have been using it for several years, and prefer it over WordPress and Joomla for most projects.

One caveat is that Drupal has a considerable learning curve. You'll need to do some reading and/or watch some videos before doing anything substantial with it. Another important note is that Drupal relies on modules for basic functionality. The standard ones I use:

- ctools
- views
- pathauto
- webform
- wysiwyg
- elFinder
 

StrudelTurnover

macrumors regular
Feb 25, 2008
125
0
I also don't want to insult you in any way so just take this as constructive criticism. Also I understand you're in high school but that's no different than somebody in their 20s or 30s trying HTML for the first time.

If I was your teacher I would fail you for putting text on a background image. Please don't ever do that again. :rolleyes:

It is alarming how little text and how many images are in the index.html. To a search engine, this website is basically invisible. No business wants that. To a visually impaired person looking for a nice dinner out, this restaurant offers nothing to feel they are welcome. Blind adults use computers, they don't have a friend read over their shoulder.

Firefox -> View -> Page Style -> No Style.
Your website should be 100% usable (note I'm not saying functional) in this view, with almost no images.

Go spend lots of time on csszengarden.com when you're ready to move beyond making menus. :)

Good luck and keep in mind that to be and stay a professional designer you have to re-learn the web approximately every 6 months.
 
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TonyK

macrumors 65816
May 24, 2009
1,032
148
I was using Safari when I noticed that. Also great to hear about the changes being made. For a CMS site I recommend CMSMadeSimple. Probably the best one out their imo only downside is their support is very delayed since they are a foreign company all over Europe so we have that time delay.

Make sure the red isn't a bright red but more of a darkened red with a good black text for the elderly.

Having a spouse who is legally blind helps me with some insight. Too dark of red and she can't see it. Too bright causes issues too. Reds are also hard for people who are color blind as they will render some form of brown.

The comments about screen readers and all are good. Turn on Voice Over in OS X and have it read your site to you and it will quickly show you where changes can be made.

+1 for all the other constructive comments for which there have been MANY. Such a great group to help out.

One thing I would do is to pull the style and JavaScript out and put them in files and reference them through the src property tag.

It may not mean much for a small site but when you get to larger sites having them use the same stylesheet will be a big issue. Same goes for JS code.

Take care,
 

76ShovelHead

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
May 30, 2010
527
32
Florida
I also don't want to insult you in any way so just take this as constructive criticism. Also I understand you're in high school but that's no different than somebody in their 20s or 30s trying HTML for the first time.

If I was your teacher I would fail you for putting text on a background image. Please don't ever do that again. :rolleyes:

It is alarming how little text and how many images are in the index.html. To a search engine, this website is basically invisible. No business wants that. To a visually impaired person looking for a nice dinner out, this restaurant offers nothing to feel they are welcome. Blind adults use computers, they don't have a friend read over their shoulder.

Firefox -> View -> Page Style -> No Style.
Your website should be 100% usable (note I'm not saying functional) in this view, with almost no images.

Go spend lots of time on csszengarden.com when you're ready to move beyond making menus. :)

Good luck and keep in mind that to be and stay a professional designer you have to re-learn the web approximately every 6 months.

I've learned my lesson (with text in images) lol, never again! Anyways, I've updated the site, all pages should have the new menu bar, this time it matches the theme. All text is now physical. My biggest accomplishments were:

A 1x1 pixel of white, 92 opacity, as background, set to repeat and corners cut-off with CSS3. All green bars on the site, like around noteworthy and facebook, are divs styled in CSS with 70 percent opacity. The site loads so much faster.

Please note, I still have to correct some spelling mistakes I made (It was 5am, and I was dizzy tired haha.)

I'm having an issue getting the font-face to work with Apple Chancery.

@font-face {
font-family: "Apple Chancery";
src: url(Apple Chancery.ttf) format("truetype");
}

My CSS document is in styles folder, so I put the font into styles as well and then added this line to the top of the document. It's not doing anything, I'd really like to have this font back!

I think everyone should find this site 100% better this time around. It's no longer a mock-up of what could be. So long images, background images, and longer loading times. Hello to a million new divs.

It was a lot of work, but that's why I'm (hopefully) being paid.

You'll also notice the site to be more user friendly. I implemented everything I and the owner talked about, except for an iframe for specials. I will be using a CSS of some sort for that. I have 3 classes left to finish for school, before the 22nd, so CSS will come sometime afterwards. It's crunch time!

The biggest accomplishment (for lack of a better word) here though, is I didn't use dreamweaver for any of this. Just bluefish, chrome, firefox, and filezilla on ubuntu.

The only issues I am having is @font-face with Apple Chancery.ttf, and on webkit browsers I noticed that you must refresh the page after initial loading in order to see the map and link for maps in the header of the page. (Chrome). I don't know why this happened, but ever since I added the Facebook Like Box this has been happening on webkit. Mozilla doesn't experience this. Any ideas?

----------

Having a spouse who is legally blind helps me with some insight. Too dark of red and she can't see it. Too bright causes issues too. Reds are also hard for people who are color blind as they will render some form of brown.

The comments about screen readers and all are good. Turn on Voice Over in OS X and have it read your site to you and it will quickly show you where changes can be made.

+1 for all the other constructive comments for which there have been MANY. Such a great group to help out.

One thing I would do is to pull the style and JavaScript out and put them in files and reference them through the src property tag.

It may not mean much for a small site but when you get to larger sites having them use the same stylesheet will be a big issue. Same goes for JS code.

Take care,

I would love to stick ALL of my styling into my CSS document, however I've noticed it won't work if I have a background image tied to one of the styles. Since the sheet is in the styles directory and not the main one, how would I have it step back into the main directory and then into the images folder, for instance?
 

andyriot

macrumors member
Jul 1, 2010
72
0
I would love to stick ALL of my styling into my CSS document, however I've noticed it won't work if I have a background image tied to one of the styles. Since the sheet is in the styles directory and not the main one, how would I have it step back into the main directory and then into the images folder, for instance?

use "../" to move up a directory.

Example = background-image: url("../img/bg.png");
 

laurim

macrumors 68000
Sep 19, 2003
1,985
970
Minnesota USA
The site is getting better. My two cents:

I was taught to never say "Click here". If people can't tell it's a button or link, you're doing it wrong. Just have "Directions" in the link style (separate color or underlined). Professional sites will never have "click here" on them.
 

lucasgladding

macrumors 6502
Feb 16, 2007
319
1
Waterloo, Ontario
I was taught to never say "Click here". If people can't tell it's a button or link, you're doing it wrong. Just have "Directions" in the link style (separate color or underlined). Professional sites will never have "click here" on them.

I wouldn't say it's always wrong to use "click here", though it is often redundant. Sometimes it can be useful as a simple call-to-action for the reader.

Your message should be clear and concise, and anything that doesn't help with that should be removed.
 
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ezekielrage_99

macrumors 68040
Oct 12, 2005
3,336
19
If it were me designing the site, I wouldn't bother with a site... I'd go with a Facebook pages with some good ol' fashion grass roots campaign to get people to "Like" the restaurant. It would be easier to set up, the SEO would be better, opportunities regarding having interaction with the brand and engaging far better response than a static site, there would be far more opportunity to make it social and promote the business for what it does well, that it's creating a great dining experience.

I'll echo what everyone else says. Charging for the site, especially charging that much, could destroy chances you would otherwise have in the future. If you had been hired by the restaurant in the first place, at your level, between $500-$800 would be reasonable IMHO. That's what I would have charged when I was starting out.

This is seriously good advice, I would have thought the same regarding pay vs. experience. Remember a client isn't hiring you just to make a site, rather they are hiring you for your knowledge, expertise and ideas.

I'm having an issue getting the font-face to work with Apple Chancery.

@font-face {
font-family: "Apple Chancery";
src: url(Apple Chancery.ttf) format("truetype");
}

For reference sake, modern browsers use OTF or EOT and never TTF, I'd suggest checking out this site it will give you a better in sight into font rendering for the interwebs.

I'd strongly suggest not using Apple Chancery, the license won't allow for using it how you're trying to use it. e.g. against terms of usage which is a bad thing ;)

I think everyone should find this site 100% better this time around. It's no longer a mock-up of what could be. So long images, background images, and longer loading times. Hello to a million new divs.

It was a lot of work, but that's why I'm (hopefully) being paid.

The BEST suggestion for you would be to use Espresso + Wordpress, really it's a match made in heaven compared to Dreamweaver. It's actually been 4 years since I've touched Dreamweaver and I haven't looked back.

Believe it or not you're making hard work for yourself AND your client, with Wordpress updates, maintenance and changes are a snap once setup correctly. Also regarding tools it's much better served to what you're trying to achieve, that is a good quality solution for the client.

The benefit being you'll be able to work on this site wherever you have access to interwebs connection and a browsers, also your client wont hassle you for updates in the future ;)

You'll also notice the site to be more user friendly. I implemented everything I and the owner talked about, except for an iframe for specials. I will be using a CSS of some sort for that. I have 3 classes left to finish for school, before the 22nd, so CSS will come sometime afterwards. It's crunch time!

Sorry but the usability is tough, it follows no logical ordering and I've found the site to be rather slow though I'm not sure if it's because of hosting and images.

I find rather puzzling is why you'd put the CTA below the fold while the level of typography regarding the navigation is so pulled back?

Also from a general design perspective there are minimal level of typography and things don't seem to have structure (I refer to the reviews page.)

This is an excellent case study by Smashing I'd suggest really looking at, it will give you clarity to responsive design and usability wrapped up in a clean package.

Simplifying, moving to Wordpress, and cleaning up the alignment/type would make this site an awesome portfolio piece for you and a quality business tool for the client. That would be my suggestion/advice.

BTW good luck with the design.
 
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laurim

macrumors 68000
Sep 19, 2003
1,985
970
Minnesota USA
I wouldn't say it's always wrong to use "click here", though it is often redundant. Sometimes it can be useful as a simple call-to-action for the reader.

Your message should be clear and concise, and anything that doesn't help with that should be removed.

There's really no reason to use "Click here" when there are always more appropriate calls to action that aren't so clunky. For example:

Read why people think this way

Buy tickets before they're gone

"Click here" might have been useful when the web was new and people didn't know what links look like but nowadays, it's almost insulting to the viewer. Something like "Directions" is so common it doesn't require any more help.
 

76ShovelHead

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
May 30, 2010
527
32
Florida
There's really no reason to use "Click here" when there are always more appropriate calls to action that aren't so clunky. For example:

Read why people think this way

Buy tickets before they're gone

"Click here" might have been useful when the web was new and people didn't know what links look like but nowadays, it's almost insulting to the viewer. Something like "Directions" is so common it doesn't require any more help.

I agree with you 100%, and may even take it further in suggesting that by today's standards, just the directions would've worked with an elegant color change (Which was actually my first implementation). But the owner insisted I put "Click here" since her audience is rather... Old. lol. Otherwise, and before I met with her, I would have just left it black and when hovered over, a deep red.

----------

use "../" to move up a directory.

Example = background-image: url("../img/bg.png");

Thanks,

Got a lot of studying to do to finish up my online courses before the 22nd, but even after I sell this site I will be working on it. I have a lot of dedication to my work :).
 
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76ShovelHead

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
May 30, 2010
527
32
Florida
If it were me designing the site, I wouldn't bother with a site... I'd go with a Facebook pages with some good ol' fashion grass roots campaign to get people to "Like" the restaurant. It would be easier to set up, the SEO would be better, opportunities regarding having interaction with the brand and engaging far better response than a static site, there would be far more opportunity to make it social and promote the business for what it does well, that it's creating a great dining experience.



This is seriously good advice, I would have thought the same regarding pay vs. experience. Remember a client isn't hiring you just to make a site, rather they are hiring you for your knowledge, expertise and ideas.



For reference sake, modern browsers use OTF or EOT and never TTF, I'd suggest checking out this site it will give you a better in sight into font rendering for the interwebs.

I'd strongly suggest not using Apple Chancery, the license won't allow for using it how you're trying to use it. e.g. against terms of usage which is a bad thing ;)



The BEST suggestion for you would be to use Espresso + Wordpress, really it's a match made in heaven compared to Dreamweaver. It's actually been 4 years since I've touched Dreamweaver and I haven't looked back.

Believe it or not you're making hard work for yourself AND your client, with Wordpress updates, maintenance and changes are a snap once setup correctly. Also regarding tools it's much better served to what you're trying to achieve, that is a good quality solution for the client.

The benefit being you'll be able to work on this site wherever you have access to interwebs connection and a browsers, also your client wont hassle you for updates in the future ;)



Sorry but the usability is tough, it follows no logical ordering and I've found the site to be rather slow though I'm not sure if it's because of hosting and images.

I find rather puzzling is why you'd put the CTA below the fold while the level of typography regarding the navigation is so pulled back?

Also from a general design perspective there are minimal level of typography and things don't seem to have structure (I refer to the reviews page.)

This is an excellent case study by Smashing I'd suggest really looking at, it will give you clarity to responsive design and usability wrapped up in a clean package.

Simplifying, moving to Wordpress, and cleaning up the alignment/type would make this site an awesome portfolio piece for you and a quality business tool for the client. That would be my suggestion/advice.

BTW good luck with the design.

I hate all these EULA's lol. I need an elegant font that will work without all these laws attatched to it. Open Source FTW. As for the site being slow, it's probably the background image. It is like super huge, 3000x3000 px or something. I'll have to optimize it for the web. Even more so because I bet the majority of users will be on IE 6 with Pentium 3's.

I'll being looking into this Wordpress thing. I've never really paid it much attention, but I like to learn things BEFORE I go into school so that I just fly by the course work.

Thank you for the tips, you were very thorough, I appreciate it! I need to dedicate my summer to learning Wordpress. I'll look into Wordpress. But I still have afew questions.

If I were to use Wordpress, I would have to wrap my design around a basic template? Would it have to be served on their servers? How would I implement it?

I was under the influence that Wordpress was an online website/blog maker. I know that it can be professionally themed, but the way it sounds from everyone here is like a file I would put on the server and brand, similar to like macrumors uses a service for their forums but have their branding all over it.
 

laurim

macrumors 68000
Sep 19, 2003
1,985
970
Minnesota USA
Otherwise, and before I met with her, I would have just left it black and when hovered over, a deep red.

THAT would definitely be the WRONG thing to do. Linked text should NEVER look exactly like regular text. I'd buy not underlining text links until moused over but AT LEAST they should have something that shows they are links that doesn't require a mouse to discover. I think that's why your client didn't like your initial implementation, not because you didn't say 'Click Here". You didn't have to put "Click Here" in the menus or on your picture links, right?

People aren't going to mouse over every single thing on the page to make sure something's a link or not because you've chosen to make it a treasure hunt by not making it clear in an instant what's a link and what's not. Plus, what if the person is viewing it on a phone?
 

Jessica Lares

macrumors G3
Oct 31, 2009
9,612
1,056
Near Dallas, Texas, USA
If I were to use Wordpress, I would have to wrap my design around a basic template? Would it have to be served on their servers? How would I implement it?

I was under the influence that Wordpress was an online website/blog maker. I know that it can be professionally themed, but the way it sounds from everyone here is like a file I would put on the server and brand, similar to like macrumors uses a service for their forums but have their branding all over it.

WordPress is great, once you learn it, you'll never want to make a site any other way. It is kinda wrapping your site around a template, but you have a lot of freedom in doing it. Basically, you'd design the website first, then plug in the WordPress short codes afterwards. I would suggest coming up with a few basic templates like for posts/pages along the way. Once I'm done coding, it only takes me a minute to set my stuff up for WordPress because of that.

And yes, you pretty much just download a ZIP of the platform, upload it, and run it off a MySQL database with whatever plugin/themes you want. Since like 2.3 or something, everything is handled in the dashboard itself. So you can download whatever you need and have it loaded to your site with just a click. Just make sure when you're making your themes, you have them properly labeled, otherwise they won't work correctly.

As one last thing, I recommend Typekit https://typekit.com/ and Google Web Fonts http://www.google.com/webfonts . A good font goes a long way.
 

ezekielrage_99

macrumors 68040
Oct 12, 2005
3,336
19
I'll being looking into this Wordpress thing. I've never really paid it much attention, but I like to learn things BEFORE I go into school so that I just fly by the course work.

Thank you for the tips, you were very thorough, I appreciate it! I need to dedicate my summer to learning Wordpress. I'll look into Wordpress. But I still have afew questions..

No problemo, I understand where you're coming from regarding feedback on your work/career.

Wordpress, honestly I'd start looking at wordpress.org and theme forest I'd also recommend checking Smashing it has great tips for Wordpress, web dev/design and ux/ui.

I'd check out learning HTML5 and CSS3, Wordpress is pretty darn easy once it's set up, to customise themes you really need to have a good workable knowledge with CSS and how HTML works. Smashing does have very good sections devoted to Wordpress and customising themes.

Fonts, there's nothing wrong with Georgia + Helvetica... Old school but it looks good and is functional from platform to platform and computer to computer.

From a career perspective, Wordpress is very good to know and is one of those skills that can be applied to other areas, it's cheap, relatively easy to setup and the fact it has a great user base makes it really accessible.

Hosting well it depends where you are in the world. There's a tonne of cheap and reasonably good hosting service for not that much, if you're in the US then I'm not really going to be much help considering I'm in Australia :eek:
 

Comeagain?

macrumors 68020
Feb 17, 2011
2,190
46
Spokane, WA
If I were to use Wordpress, I would have to wrap my design around a basic template? Would it have to be served on their servers? How would I implement it?

I was under the influence that Wordpress was an online website/blog maker. I know that it can be professionally themed, but the way it sounds from everyone here is like a file I would put on the server and brand, similar to like macrumors uses a service for their forums but have their branding all over it.

Wordpress is a free CMS, primarily used for blogs, but can be used as a straight CMS. You download the .php files, and run them on your own server, as long as it has .PHP and MySQL. If you don't have a server that has that, a cheap (read free) fairly reliable testing place is 000webhost.com.

Wordpress does not require that you have any branding visible, but I believe the comments in the code must stay.

This is similar to vbulletin for Macrumors, only vbulletin requires to have branding on every page, unless you pay to have it removed.

Btw, the phone number on the site is too high, and causes it to go "behind" the text above it.
 

hwojtek

macrumors 68020
Jan 26, 2008
2,274
1,276
Poznan, Poland
the background image. It is like super huge, 3000x3000 px or something. I'll have to optimize it for the web.

You need to think really hard if web design is really the path you should've chosen. It takes a lot of time to develop taste and nurse the talent for the graphics side of things, and also you need to elevate your understanding of the technical side.

I'll being looking into this Wordpress thing. I've never really paid it much attention, but I like to learn things BEFORE I go into school so that I just fly by the course work.

Thank you for the tips, you were very thorough, I appreciate it! I need to dedicate my summer to learning Wordpress. I'll look into Wordpress. But I still have afew questions.

You need to learn a lot. FYI, the answers to your questions regarding WP are "no", "no", and "you'd need to have exceptional understanding and skills in CSS".

I don't want to sound rude (though probably in American standards I did) but the website you've presented seems like an exercise of an 10-yrs old. Just for reference, take a look at a (random) local restaurant site that popped up in my Google: http://www.alegloria.pl/restaurant
 

bpaluzzi

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2010
918
1
London
You need to think really hard if web design is really the path you should've chosen. It takes a lot of time to develop taste and nurse the talent for the graphics side of things, and also you need to elevate your understanding of the technical side.

Okay folks, time to stop piling on. The OP has been extremely receptive to comments, and has been open to criticism, no matter how rudely it was presented or ill-advised the advice was.

As you stated above - it takes time. Posts like this do nothing to encourage good learners like the OP. Waaaaaay out of line.
You need to learn a lot. FYI, the answers to your questions regarding WP are "no", "no", and "you'd need to have exceptional understanding and skills in CSS".

If you think it takes "exceptional understanding and skills in CSS" to use Wordpress, I'd put forward that you are in NO way qualified to be giving advice in this discussion.
I don't want to sound rude (though probably in American standards I did) but the website you've presented seems like an exercise of an 10-yrs old. Just for reference, take a look at a (random) local restaurant site that popped up in my Google: http://www.alegloria.pl/restaurant
You are exceptionally rude. And off base. Not sure if the example was supposed to be of a "great site", but it failed pretty miserably, IMO. It has a lot of the same problems as the op's site, and in some ways (nav structure, for one) is worse than the op's site.
 

olup

Cancelled
Oct 11, 2011
383
40
before you start with wordpress check out these books on HTML and CSS,if you haven't already .

dan zeldman-designing with web standards(definitely read that to get a good understanding about web standards)
http://books.google.de/books?id=hVsCia9J8XEC&pg=PA412&dq=dan+zeldman+designing+with+web+standards&hl=de&sa=X&ei=eYPMT_ChHJDZsgbS3qnbBg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=dan%20zeldman%20designing%20with%20web%20standards&f=false

Jon Duckett-HTML and Css(a very nice looking and seemlingly good basic book about HTML and CSS)
http://books.google.de/books?id=blCyf8XF41sC&printsec=frontcover&dq=jon+duckett+html+and+css&hl=de&sa=X&ei=ioPMT96OFc7NsgbZ9ZTbBg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=jon%20duckett%20html%20and%20css&f=false

Jason Cranford Teague-speaking in styles(good book on css)
http://books.google.de/books?id=8YLVlHBn0RAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=speaking+in+styles&hl=de&sa=X&ei=YYTMT4SiOofdsgaCxOmvBg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=speaking%20in%20styles&f=false

http://sixrevisions.com/ also has good tutorials, articles and infos on webdesign, wordpress and stuff like that.
 
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BanterClaus

macrumors regular
Feb 19, 2011
195
25
UK
Okay I'll tell you what I personally think the main problem is here. I'm a student at college (i'm 16 so that equates to HS in the states, right?) and when I first started to try make websites I made the same mistake as I think you are making.

So here is some advice for future reference. It looks like you have pretty much designed the site almost entirely in dreamweaver. This isn't the way to do it. Have the full site designed in photoshop before beginning on the code. The design will just look so much more fluent and professional. If you go straight into dreamweaver it will just end up looking like it has been slapped together. Your overall code isn't bad at all it's just that you need a design before you begin doing the code. You can then neatly stitch the design together in CSS/HTML to produce a more professional looking website. Please don't feel insulted by what I have said I am just trying to give you some advice. Overall it is an okay little website.

In terms of selling it I think that price is way too high. Work for free so you can build your skills. I have never sold a website for more than a couple of hundred pounds.

Some professionals will probably come along and rip what I have said to shreds here but oh well. Hope I was of some help. This may be all the wrong advice as I am not studying web design in any subject at college and I don't intend to follow it as a career path I just think it is a useful skill to have.
 

hwojtek

macrumors 68020
Jan 26, 2008
2,274
1,276
Poznan, Poland
If you think it takes "exceptional understanding and skills in CSS" to use Wordpress, I'd put forward that you are in NO way qualified to be giving advice in this discussion.

Thank you. By "exceptional" I mean literally "exceptional", as opposed to "skills 95% of theme modders have". Obvioulsy, you can be an exception to this rule and can mod a whole Wordpress theme from fixed to fluid layout in no time. Kudos to you, sir.

You are exceptionally rude. And off base.

Why nurse mediocrity just to keep up the self-esteem of the OP? If something is ugly why not call it ugly? Because the OP asked if we like it or not and is therefore protected? What you are trying to do is to frame me into being personal about the OP and I am not. I blame the product, not the person.

Not sure if the example was supposed to be of a "great site", but it failed pretty miserably, IMO. It has a lot of the same problems as the op's site, and in some ways (nav structure, for one) is worse than the op's site.

No, as I've stated above this is a random website that popped up in my Google. However as I've examined it a bit more throughly, it's coded properly with external CSS, logical navigation (horizontal for sections, vertical for subsections) and (ta-daam!) it even has got the <head> contents properly, with proper html lang= directive instead of superfluous metanames of the OP's site.
If I were to code a website for any client, I'd take a look on a LOT of competition's websites first and then create something they don't have. I know creativity is underrated, but this one cries for some.

And I absolutely concur every single word BanterClaus wrote above. The OP uses the wrong tools and uses them wrong. The effect is clearly visible, so the sooner he's going to stop developing this 20th century Geocities lookalike, the better. I'd restart from scratch with this one.
 

bpaluzzi

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2010
918
1
London
Thank you. By "exceptional" I mean literally "exceptional", as opposed to "skills 95% of theme modders have". Obvioulsy, you can be an exception to this rule and can mod a whole Wordpress theme from fixed to fluid layout in no time. Kudos to you, sir.
Those are in no ways exceptional CSS skills. Those are fundamental skills.

Why nurse mediocrity just to keep up the self-esteem of the OP? If something is ugly why not call it ugly? Because the OP asked if we like it or not and is therefore protected? What you are trying to do is to frame me into being personal about the OP and I am not. I blame the product, not the person.

There's a difference between giving constructive criticism and being a prick. You fall down on one side of that divide, for sure.
 

lucasgladding

macrumors 6502
Feb 16, 2007
319
1
Waterloo, Ontario
But the owner insisted I put "Click here" since her audience is rather... Old. lol.

Some things are "wrong", some things are just poor messaging. In cases where you need to pick your battles, I would focus on the "wrong" items. "Click here" is often just poor messaging IMHO.

That said, I do think it can work in some instances. "For more information on ..., click here" is when I usually see "click here" used, often in press releases. Even Apple uses it on their website.
 
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lucasgladding

macrumors 6502
Feb 16, 2007
319
1
Waterloo, Ontario
There's a difference between giving constructive criticism and being a prick. You fall down on one side of that divide, for sure.

Agreed. The OP deserves credit for being receptive. He already knows he has a lot to learn, which is why he is asking for input. Insulting him doesn't do much to encourage professional development.
 
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