Is sleep broken on Apple Silicon?

[Krakenmare]

Hey guys,

Wondering what is your experience with sleep and Apple Silicon? from what i can tell it's totally broken in context of what intel macs used to do.
The Macbooks seem ok, but Mac Mini and iMac is fubar, or am I doing something wrong? have spent a bit of time on this and not getting anywhere. I realise power efficiency is pretty awesome and it matters less if it sleeps or not. But when you want to have a bunch of USB drives they spin up non stop all night. Not to mention preserving the internal soldered SSD.

I started fighting with this on an iMac M1, DFU'ed it to Monterey thinking it will be easier to work with, but i cant get it to sleep the same way an Intel mac sleeps. Basically: womp 1 and networkoversleep 1 breaks sleep totally. Now i got a used M1 mac mini and it's the same crap (also on Monterey for now).

any insight or experiences would be much appreciated, we have a harem of Macs here and use Wake on Lan a lot, my pmset script :

sudo pmset -a autopoweroff 0;
sudo pmset -a powernap 0;
sudo pmset -a tcpkeepalive 0;
sudo pmset -a standby 0;
sudo pmset -a proximitywake 0;
sudo pmset -a networkoversleep 1;
sudo pmset -a hibernatemode 0;
sudo pmset -a womp 1;

Thank You! Happy Sunday!

 

[mr_roboto]

You're not describing clearly what the problem is. What behavior is different from an Intel Mac? What result did you expect, and what do you observe? "Breaks sleep totally" doesn't mean much, what specifically does the machine do when you regard sleep as totally broken?

You're also taking proactive steps that seem questionable. Why would you expect forcing the machine back to Monterey to work better than a more recent macOS release? Monterey was only the second major release of macOS for Apple Silicon, and they were still working a lot of bugs out.

There's also all the pmset things you're tinkering with. Do you actually know what each does, and why you're changing it?

In at least one case, what you're doing is explicitly documented as unsupported by the pmset man page - Apple says you are not supposed to change the value of 'networkoversleep'. (As of Sequoia, at least. Not sure about Monterey.)

 

[Krakenmare]

There's also all the pmset things you're tinkering with. Do you actually know what each does, and why you're changing it?

no, i just click around and issue random commands, have been very lucky in this approach so far

In at least one case, what you're doing is explicitly documented as unsupported by the pmset man page - Apple says you are not supposed to change the value of 'networkoversleep'. (As of Sequoia, at least. Not sure about Monterey.)

on no, is the Apple police going to come and get me? help me?

 

[mr_roboto]

no, i just click around and issue random commands, have been very lucky in this approach so far

on no, is the Apple police going to come and get me? help me?

I mean, if you don't actually know what you're doing with pmset, maybe don't mess with it so much and then complain when things don't work the way you expect?

And no, the Apple police aren't coming to get you. The point is that if the documentation for a knob says it's unsupported to change that knob's setting, and doesn't even clearly document what it does, you may experience unpredictable results if you decide to go twist it anyways.

 

[lowendlinux]

My drives spin up periodically when my Mac sleeps, my Intel and PowerPC Macs the hard drives spun up.

 

[Krakenmare]

My drives spin up periodically when my Mac sleeps, my Intel and PowerPC Macs the hard drives spun up.

periodically would be ok, but it seems to be 3-4 times an hour, i have a tower of desktop powered USB drives, its not exactly silent when all 5 five spin up every few minutes. Intel macs seem to be about every 2-3 hours which is fine.

 

[benwiggy]

what i can tell it's totally broken in context of what intel macs used to do.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that they would work identically, given the different nature of the architecture.

i have a tower of desktop powered USB drives, its not exactly silent when all 5 five spin up every few minutes. Intel macs seem to be about every 2-3 hours which is fine.

The above having been said, I doubt that there would be a difference in USB device handling, given the same OS. Are these mechanical hard drives? I would not trust bus power to be sufficient for 5 of them.

Mac Mini and iMac is fubar, or am I doing something wrong?

I have an M2 Pro Mini, and it goes to sleep fine. But as it's a desktop, plugged into the mains, I'm less bothered about whether it sleeps or not.

You seem to be using some kind of sleep management/monitoring utility. Does this app change the sleep behaviour? Could it be the root cause of the problem?

(Also, there are about a zillion posts here that start "My monitoring utility told me that this is happening -- is this normal / should I worry / am I being hacked..? For an easy life, I recommend uninstalling them all.)

 

[Krakenmare]

i think it's time to accept that it will work differently,
the drives are powered by mains, on a powered hub also.

when you say your M2 Pro sleeps fine, what do you mean? do you know the sleep/wake pattern of it?

i dont use to app for anything but monitoring, its just easier than running terminal commands, such as:

log show --predicate 'eventMessage contains "Wake reason"'

it's not only easier but much much faster, apart from that the app doesnt do anything for me
app URL https://ohanaware.com/sleepaid/

im just dissapointed how these silicon things handle sleep, maybe better to use intal macs for situations where multiple USB drives are hanging off it

 

[LeVan]

i think it's time to accept that it will work differently,

Do you absolutely need to have all those USB drives connected all of the time? I connect mine when I do a backup, otherwise they are disconnected.

Why do you have networkoversleep set as ON? (networkoversleep 1) If Apple says it should not be used, first I would use "networkoversleep 0" and not touch it again. Womp should be off, ie., womp 0

In regard to the Mac waking up too often; take a look here, post#2 and #21, especially <https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...l-me-how.2349833/?post=34303211#post-34303211>
The issue of Dark wake, where something makes the Mac wake up when it should stay asleep is rather complex.
The following was found here on MacRumors:

To fix dark wake, sleep issues in Sonoma, and Sequoia:
1. Open Terminal
2. Create the folder structure necessary in terminal with this Terminal command:
sudo mkdir -p /Library/Preferences/FeatureFlags/Domain/
3. Copy the code below into a editor and make sure the boolean flag is changed from <true/> to <false/>
Save the file as powerd.plist into the new folder: /Library/Preferences/FeatureFlags/Domain/
Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
<key>CoreSmartPowerNap</key>
<dict>
<key>Enabled</key>
<false/>
</dict>
</dict>
</plist>

4. Reboot

5. An extensive search on MacRumors shows an addition to the previous sleep-wake, dark wake solution, which also includes making that /Library/Preferences/FeatureFlags/Domain/ folder and copying the new edited powerd.plist to that folder.
Stop the dark wakes due to "RTC.Maintenance" (Apple’s intrusion): Do these Terminal commands line by line:
sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.mDNSResponder.plist NoMulticastAdvertisements -bool true
sudo pmset -a disksleep 0
sudo pmset -a womp 0
sudo pmset -a powernap 0
sudo pmset -a ttyskeepawake 0
sudo pmset -a tcpkeepalive 1
sudo pmset schedule cancelall
sudo pmset repeat cancel
Note; to lock the sleep / Wake schedule:
sudo chflags schg /Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/com.apple.AutoWake.plist
Unlock before any OS update, using the code below, Relock afterwards:
sudo chflags noschg /Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/com.apple.AutoWake.plist
reboot

 

[benwiggy]

when you say your M2 Pro sleeps fine, what do you mean? do you know the sleep/wake pattern of it?

I mean that when I come back after some time away, it's often asleep. What more is there to know?

Have you switched OFF the System Setting to put hard disks to sleep when possible?