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AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
Most enterprise customers are moving away from host based storage solutions and more towards network based storage solutions (NAS over existing TCP/IP infrastructure or dedicated SANs).

But, few enterprise customers are using Apples in their datacenters.


Dang 18TB sounds like a wild amount of space. I'd like to meet the consumer, or Prosumer who even use half that space.

I have 11 TB on my home server (Windows Home Server). Then 18 TB in 13 drives on my main desktop (eSATA is my friend). Secondary desktop with a 6 TB hardware RAID-5 array for safety.


i.e. some say BD quality means at LEAST 10-12GB rips per movie.

BD movies are hitting above 40+ GB per movie in AVC (MPEG4). How can you compress that by a factor of 4 and maintain "BD-Quality". Serious RDF at play here. ;)
 

nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,719
3
Here's a device more suited to TBolt than a portable disk like the LaCie...
I know, and I've linked it on a number of occasions already, as I also see it as the way for storage to truly utilize the TB interconnect. The LaCie is a bit of an odd-ball (fast, but 2x SSD's are limited in both capacity and what you can do with them; i.e. can't run but RAID 1 once it's been reconfigured <assuming it can> for a redundant means of storage). So I see it as more of a means for things like OS and audio library storage for example (need fast random access reads, and this assumes the striping doesn't actually slow it down in this regard, as sometimes does).

Most enterprise customers are moving away from host based storage solutions and more towards network based storage solutions (NAS over existing TCP/IP infrastructure or dedicated SANs). Host based storage is a nightmare to manage. TB being a host based technology pretty much guarantees it's non-acceptance into enterprise solutions.
TB's not aimed at the enterprise market in it's current form though. It's a cross between consumers (convenience, but cost information suggests it's going to be too expensive for this group), and a niche of independent/SMB professionals, such as audio or video editing done on a laptop (i.e. location shooting of a commercial or movie types of situations where hauling the entire desktop and accoutrement's around are a massive hassle). So we're talking about DAS here, not NAS or SAN.

Before it was released as TB, Light Peak had (still does if they get what they originally proposed out) potential for the enterprise market (i.e. cheap, fast optical interconnect definitely gets attention in this market, as current optical tech is expensive). Granted, it wasn't initially stated it would be usable as a networking interconnect, but the potential was there, and may still be if they've not totally given up on it. But if they can't get the optical circuits in at the low cost it initially promised (they may be trying to wait for graphene based optical modulators to accomplish this), it may not take off there either, as FC can already fit the bill as a usable optical networking interconnect that costs an arm + leg. :D :p

Small/medium business ? Yeah, I guess. Low server count to manage, so the problems of host based storages are minimized (though always there...), but then again, NAS is so cheap these days that even these businesses can get all the advantages of network based storage (pooling and consolidation of storage resources) without added costs.
NAS may be cheap to implement, but it's also slow (presumes the budget's not there for 10G Ethernet; but if it is, the requirements probably will lean towards SAN as the right fit anyway).

But, few enterprise customers are using Apples in their data centers.
True, and despite the argument that Macs are cheaper in terms of IT costs, there's other considerations to be taken into account as well (support is a big one IMO, as they really do need things like same day hardware support while it's under warranty). Apple falls flat on their faces on this one.
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
BD movies are hitting above 40+ GB per movie in AVC (MPEG4). How can you compress that by a factor of 4 and maintain "BD-Quality". Serious RDF at play here. ;)

I think it's a matter of BD titles are trying to fill the available space (i.e. why not? It's there; use it). That doesn't mean they need that much space to look good. 10-15GB seems to be the area most people I've seen claim they can't tell the difference. But WTF do I know? I think my 4GB 720P ATV G1 compatible encodes look great (I can't see any visible errors even when I freeze frame, unlike say cable television where compression artifacts are very common and easy to spot, even on the best stations. The Super Bowl was simply AWFUL looking here.)
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
NAS may be cheap to implement, but it's also slow (presumes the budget's not there for 10G Ethernet; but if it is, the requirements probably will lean towards SAN as the right fit anyway).

Unless you attach the TB arrays directly to the secretary's computer, the bottleneck is the network, not the NAS' interconnect. ;)

What good is having a 10 Gbps pipe from your storage to your server if all the rest of your equipment is 1 Gbps shared/100 Mbps shared ?

Some people overthink solutions sometimes...
 

nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,719
3
Unless you attach the TB arrays directly to the secretary's computer, the bottleneck is the network, not the NAS' interconnect. ;)

What good is having a 10 Gbps pipe from your storage to your server if all the rest of your equipment is 1 Gbps shared/100 Mbps shared ?

Some people overthink solutions sometimes...
TB's not meant to be networked as it currently exists (could be done via a host system). As per the NAS's bandwidth, I was presuming that all the networking equipment was the same (not using a 100Mb/s ports anywhere in the path or bandwidth limits - I presumed you would have realized this is what I was getting at).

Most of this centers around DAS, and I've seen NAS used for that (attached to a single computer, not a network for either primary or backup duty). In such cases, they can do better with eSATA and a Port Multiplier enclosure IMO (in terms of cost and performance).
 

toke lahti

macrumors 68040
Apr 23, 2007
3,276
502
Helsinki, Finland
And obviously they do, don't you remember the iphone 4 that was in a 3gs type case found at a bar? Who is to say apple isn't testing 4k displays and let intel use one for their demo?
That phone was newer used in a public demo.
Apple hasn't shown any unfinished products at least in this millenium. Maybe longer. They just don't do it. Believe it or not.
 

toke lahti

macrumors 68040
Apr 23, 2007
3,276
502
Helsinki, Finland
People having to work on really large datasets locally on very high-end workstations. Basically, Firewire's niche.
Firewire was much better compared to others at that time.
Hdd's were faster with fw and digital video cameras had fw.
Now, tb das isn't faster than esata das and not a single camera has tb and probably never will.
So tb will be nice only for few video / movie editing situations with BoB & das.
Maybe that's what Apple is after at and it's enough for them.
 

xxBURT0Nxx

macrumors 68020
Jul 9, 2009
2,189
2
That phone was newer used in a public demo.
Apple hasn't shown any unfinished products at least in this millenium. Maybe longer. They just don't do it. Believe it or not.
i didn't say they "showed it" in a public demo you did...

you are trying to tell me that apple never lets anyone have a sneak peak of their hardware ahead of time? How do you think things like software get developed?

Nobody had access to the app store sdk ahead of time, but when they announced it at the keynote they magically had software to demo from several companies...

These new enhance iphones that have been supposedly given to devs so they can develop games and test on what will presumably be iphone 5 hardware... those didn't come from apple.

Like I said, they may not show what the product is going to look like, but there is nothing stopping them from passing out a "dummy" unit with upgraded internal hardware for testing purposes. I never said they show them to the general public, but you are a fool if you think apple has not shown anything they have created to someone else before launch in this millennium.

I also have said it may not be an ACD... the author of the article said it was, i specifically said it does not look like one if they are referring to the same video, but even we don't know what "demo" of TB they are talking about, so we don't know either.
 

toke lahti

macrumors 68040
Apr 23, 2007
3,276
502
Helsinki, Finland
i didn't say they "showed it" in a public demo you did...
No you didn't, you said:
Who is to say apple isn't testing 4k displays and let intel use one for their demo?
Their demo was public, wasn't it?
you are trying to tell me that apple never lets anyone have a sneak peak of their hardware ahead of time? How do you think things like software get developed?
Not in public, ever heard about NDA?
 

xxBURT0Nxx

macrumors 68020
Jul 9, 2009
2,189
2
No you didn't, you said:

Their demo was public, wasn't it?

Not in public, ever heard about NDA?
Like I have said numerous times, I don't know if the demo was public. the only video I can find of a similar demo is from IDC 2009, but it is not exactly as the article describes. I have also pointed out the difference of the article being written recently, vs a press event in 2009 multiple times... never once did I claim "Apple Shows New 4K ACD in Public Press Event"

How are we to know if this was a private event or not... and either way I have acknowledged that it may not even be an ACD and that the author was likely just saying that because they were demoing it in OSX perhaps...
 

toke lahti

macrumors 68040
Apr 23, 2007
3,276
502
Helsinki, Finland
How are we to know if this was a private event or not... and either way I have acknowledged that it may not even be an ACD and that the author was likely just saying that because they were demoing it in OSX perhaps...
Liveblog:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-20035571-76.html?tag=mncol;txt
Photos:
http://news.cnet.com/2300-11386_3-10006810.html
Video:
http://news.cnet.com/1606-2_3-50100772.html

When intel invites press to demo it's its very idea to be as public as possible.
Presenter said "2k" about the monitor, which looks like to be normal production model ACD. Maybe pcmag's reporter got it wrong.

Btw, afaik, there's still no mass produced 4k monitors...
Anybody seen them?
 
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