It is worth buying a new iMac?

[philipma1957]

Yes, you can do that but I think it's a bad idea.

The emulation is awesome and it blew my mind to have a fullscreen Windows on one screen and just move the mouse pointer like that between two OS'es so seamlessly.

However for his purposes, I think the realistic option WITH the iMac, would be to run Windows natively.

The only thing you need to get your mind around is the belief that somehow windows is crippled onto a Mac. It isn't at all: when you boot with Bootcamp, you've got a PC. It's a real PC with the anti virus, Windows updates and all. Not saying that to diss it, but to emphasize that it's not emulation. You need to protect its filesystem. It won't be able to write to the OS X partition but OS X can write to BOOTCAMP.

And over time you still get the option of learning OS X, while doing so, you can read data from BOOTCAMP.

Well you have a point.

I ran windows/snow/lion on my mac pro 3 drives 3 operating systems and windows was nice in bootcamp.

I had the easy option of running snow or lion or windows and keeping all os

separate drives. With my mac mini I like vmfusion more then bootcamp.

 

[netexplorer]

The fan noise only happens when you are carrying out processor intensive tasks such as video editing. I don't think spreadsheets will cause this to happen. If I was you I would simply buy the iMac install windows 7 through bootcamp and then you have a great osx device and can run windows if you want.

The only limitation of the current iMac hardware you may face in the next 2-3 years would be the graphics card but the rest will be ok.

Have just looked at the CPU load when processing one of my spreadsheets (380,000 rows + some VBA) - shows me 95-97% of load, so it really depends on a spreadsheet.

Same with Stata - CPU load is almost 100%.

 

[DeF46]

Have just looked at the CPU load when processing one of my spreadsheets (380,000 rows + some VBA) - shows me 95-97% of load, so it really depends on a spreadsheet.

Same with Stata - CPU load is almost 100%.

I did mention when using all four cores, such as converting video or DVDs with HandBrake. Usually only video/image processing software uses all four cores so efficiently since it's very straightforward logic that can be split accross different threads.

 

[cocky jeremy]

By a Mac and just run Windows in Parallels or Fusion so you don't have to boot into Boot Camp. Easy enough, and you'll have a more reliable computer.

 

[Gator Bob]

By a Mac and just run Windows in Parallels or Fusion so you don't have to boot into Boot Camp. Easy enough, and you'll have a more reliable computer.

I run Windows in Bootcamp because 1) I use Windows infrequently 2) It runs as fast as a native Windows machine -- zero emulation losses.

It is 100% reliable. What could possibly make Windows in Bootcamp "less reliable" ?

 

[stevelam]

From your list of needs, you should just get a PC. You are basically just wasting money for something "pretty". If you have the cash for that and dont think your money could be better spent, then by all means.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

The point is that I'm searching for a new computer, which I'm gonna use primarily for statistical modelling, intensive spreadsheet compiling and processing in MS Excel (with more than 500,000 rows) as well as occasional running of MS Access for database management.

If you are planning on running Excel in Win7 on my your iMac then, iMac.

If you are planning on running MS Excel in OS X then, PC.

MS Excel for Mac is awful!!!!! I use spreadsheets like crazy, all day, all the time, and working on Windows 7 is the only option.

 

[netexplorer]

If you are planning on running Excel in Win7 on my your iMac then, iMac.

If you are planning on running MS Excel in OS X then, PC.

MS Excel for Mac is awful!!!!! I use spreadsheets like crazy, all day, all the time, and working on Windows 7 is the only option.

Actually I'm thinking of the first option. Have just discovered that you can't simply change the HD in the new iMac for an SSD drive, for instance, w/o running into fan issues...is it so?! Because if it's true than it's gonna get even more boring to buy a computer where you can just add/remove RAM...

 

[DeF46]

Actually I'm thinking of the first option. Have just discovered that you can't simply change the HD in the new iMac for an SSD drive, for instance, w/o running into fan issues...is it so?! Because if it's true than it's gonna get even more boring to buy a computer where you can just add/remove RAM...

If Apple resellers can install a SSD for you, or Apple themselves as an added (and very pricey) option... I imagine that it works just fine

Personally I won't risk returning the iMac for a SSD failure or even simply a SSD disappointment. I'll get an enclosure and use an external SSD.

Installing Bootcamp on external SSD is a big hassle I don't think you're going to want to get into. So you'd want an internal SSD, since you want to use Windows primarily for your work.

Since that will cost you far more than on a PC, I think you have more than enough reasons now to stick to a PC

 

[forty2j]

Actually I'm thinking of the first option. Have just discovered that you can't simply change the HD in the new iMac for an SSD drive, for instance, w/o running into fan issues...is it so?! Because if it's true than it's gonna get even more boring to buy a computer where you can just add/remove RAM...

Are you on a budget here? You could consider the Mac Pro, which while overdue for an update, is running Xeon server CPUs which still run faster than any iMac, and offer the complete ability to take a screwdriver to it and do whatever you please (assuming you can find drivers for any hardware you swap in).

To be perfectly honest, though, you are the target audience for those HP Z1 All-in-one workstations. Heavy on CPU (also running Xeons), light on graphics, and completely customizable. The only drawback is that they can't run OS X for the benefit of other members of your household.

 

[Winni]

....
The point is that I'm searching for a new computer, which I'm gonna use primarily for statistical modelling, intensive spreadsheet compiling and processing in MS Excel (with more than 500,000 rows) as well as occasional running of MS Access for database management....

You don't have a dilemma. Or, to put it that way: Your only dilemma is that you WANT to buy into the hype and buy Apple hardware although you already know that your software requirements clearly say that you need a system with Windows on it (which is usually defined as a "PC").

You need to run MS Access. Well, you have my sympathies - because MS Access probably is one of the worst pieces of software on that planet - and I am NOT a Microsoft basher, just a guy who makes his living in IT and grew to hate Access and its infinite number of bugs with a passion. But you need it, and MS Access ONLY runs on Windows. There are no OS X or Linux versions of Access. Or of Microsoft Visio or Project, for that matter.

So you --NEED-- Windows to run the software that you --NEED--. Which means that you do NOT have a business case for Mac OS X - rather the opposite, you have THE perfect case AGAINST buying and using Mac OS X! Really, where is that dilemma you were talking about?

Okay. You can buy a Mac, wipe out OS X from the hard disk and happily use your Apple PC with Windows ONLY. I actually know people who do that, it is not uncommon or unheard of. It just doesn't make any economic sense, because you pay MORE for the hardware and then you also pay MORE for the software (because you have to buy the Windows license on top of the already expensive hardware), but it can be done. And it works very well. Apple hardware is very compatible with Windows, and 64-Bit Windows 7 runs GREAT on Macs.

If you go down that lane, I recommend buying an OEM version for Windows 7 IN GERMANY. I just paid 45 Euros for a Win 7 Pro RE-INSTALLATION DVD with a Dell Win 7 COA license sticker. IN GERMANY, THIS IS LEGAL. But unfortunately for you, as far as I know, Germany is the only country on the planet where Microsoft's licensing policies have conflicted with the local law. If you want to purchase OEM licenses in the US, you might run into licensing issues with Microsoft and have to buy the much more expensive retail boxes instead if you want to be 100% sure that your license is valid. But in Germany, Microsoft had lost their case 12 years ago and since then license transfers are fully legal and so is re-selling "used" software or the use of Systembuilder/OEM software without bundled hardware. That's why you can get a fully valid Win7 Pro OEM license for 45 bucks here.

But back to the Mac and Office. The OS X version of Microsoft Office is no match for its Windows sibling. The Windows versions eat Office:Mac alive and swallow it down in one piece. It's not even a contest. Office:Mac is a slow, buggy, handicapped crutch with less features when compared to Office for Windows. And it doesn't matter WHY this is the case or who's to blame or whose fault it is that there is no viable alternative to MS Office on the Mac.

The Mac is NOT a corporate/enterprise/business platform. It never was, it never will be. You need a business desktop/notebook, you use a Windows machine with Windows software. Apple only ships consumer and home user products, that's an undeniable matter of fact. They don't even cater to their once favored target audience of movie and music editors anymore.

There are many cases where you might get a Mac and OS X to work well enough in the business world, but the feasibility of this is usually very questionable. It's usually not worth the extra money, time and effort.

I can understand if you love the design of Apple hardware. I do, too. If you want to spend the extra buck on the design, do it. Linux runs great on Apple hardware, and so does Windows. But with your business needs, don't expect OS X to become your best friend - ever.

If you buy that Mac, buy it with a Windows license.

 

[netexplorer]

Guys, thank you very much for the comprehensive responses. Appreciate your time and effort very much! I will probably stick to a PC at the end of the day, since it fits my business needs in a slightly better way.

 

[Winni]

By a Mac and just run Windows in Parallels or Fusion so you don't have to boot into Boot Camp. Easy enough, and you'll have a more reliable computer.

Not really. In my experience, Windows 7 is more robust, stable, secure AND FASTER than OS X Lion on THE VERY SAME Apple hardware.

To add insult to injury, OS X Lion is slow and buggy enough to turn your proposed scenario into a usability nightmare. And you would also burn A LOT of system power on the the virtualization layer alone.

Usually, most people only assign one or two of the four CPU cores of a Mac to the VM, and usually less than half of the available system RAM. In other words, the OP would buy today's hardware to eventually run Windows - his BUSINESS platform!!! - on what would technically be a five year old system. Where does that make ANY sense?

VMWare Fusion is a great tool - for software and systems developers, network engineers or when you only need Windows software OCCASIONALLY.

But when you need Windows software most of the time, you should rather install Windows natively and put OS X in a virtual machine. If you need OS X at all, that is. Which the OP doesn't.

The simple questions are:
- What software do you NEED?
- What do you need to run this software?
- Which environment suits those needs BEST?

If you need a lot of computing power for number crunching in Excel and Access, the answer to these questions can hardly be to run Windows in a VM with a large OS X overhead. It's complete nonsense.

Using Windows natively is the only option that makes sense in this scenario.

 

[netexplorer]

You don't have a dilemma. Or, to put it that way: Your only dilemma is that you WANT to buy into the hype and buy Apple hardware although you already know that your software requirements clearly say that you need a system with Windows on it (which is usually defined as a "PC").

You need to run MS Access. Well, you have my sympathies - because MS Access probably is one of the worst pieces of software on that planet - and I am NOT a Microsoft basher, just a guy who makes his living in IT and grew to hate Access and its infinite number of bugs with a passion. But you need it, and MS Access ONLY runs on Windows. There are no OS X or Linux versions of Access. Or of Microsoft Visio or Project, for that matter.

So you --NEED-- Windows to run the software that you --NEED--. Which means that you do NOT have a business case for Mac OS X - rather the opposite, you have THE perfect case AGAINST buying and using Mac OS X! Really, where is that dilemma you were talking about?

Okay. You can buy a Mac, wipe out OS X from the hard disk and happily use your Apple PC with Windows ONLY. I actually know people who do that, it is not uncommon or unheard of. It just doesn't make any economic sense, because you pay MORE for the hardware and then you also pay MORE for the software (because you have to buy the Windows license on top of the already expensive hardware), but it can be done. And it works very well. Apple hardware is very compatible with Windows, and 64-Bit Windows 7 runs GREAT on Macs.

If you go down that lane, I recommend buying an OEM version for Windows 7 IN GERMANY. I just paid 45 Euros for a Win 7 Pro RE-INSTALLATION DVD with a Dell Win 7 COA license sticker. IN GERMANY, THIS IS LEGAL. But unfortunately for you, as far as I know, Germany is the only country on the planet where Microsoft's licensing policies have conflicted with the local law. If you want to purchase OEM licenses in the US, you might run into licensing issues with Microsoft and have to buy the much more expensive retail boxes instead if you want to be 100% sure that your license is valid. But in Germany, Microsoft had lost their case 12 years ago and since then license transfers are fully legal and so is re-selling "used" software or the use of Systembuilder/OEM software without bundled hardware. That's why you can get a fully valid Win7 Pro OEM license for 45 bucks here.

But back to the Mac and Office. The OS X version of Microsoft Office is no match for its Windows sibling. The Windows versions eat Office:Mac alive and swallow it down in one piece. It's not even a contest. Office:Mac is a slow, buggy, handicapped crutch with less features when compared to Office for Windows. And it doesn't matter WHY this is the case or who's to blame or whose fault it is that there is no viable alternative to MS Office on the Mac.

The Mac is NOT a corporate/enterprise/business platform. It never was, it never will be. You need a business desktop/notebook, you use a Windows machine with Windows software. Apple only ships consumer and home user products, that's an undeniable matter of fact. They don't even cater to their once favored target audience of movie and music editors anymore.

There are many cases where you might get a Mac and OS X to work well enough in the business world, but the feasibility of this is usually very questionable. It's usually not worth the extra money, time and effort.

I can understand if you love the design of Apple hardware. I do, too. If you want to spend the extra buck on the design, do it. Linux runs great on Apple hardware, and so does Windows. But with your business needs, don't expect OS X to become your best friend - ever.

If you buy that Mac, buy it with a Windows license.

Actually that is fortunate for me, because I am from Germany. But I would probably stick to a PC anyway with the preinstalled version of Windows. Thanks for your reply!

 

[New Apple]

Actually I'm thinking of the first option. Have just discovered that you can't simply change the HD in the new iMac for an SSD drive, for instance, w/o running into fan issues...is it so?! Because if it's true than it's gonna get even more boring to buy a computer where you can just add/remove RAM...

http://www.btobey.com/learn/imac-ssd-install.php

 

[Fishrrman]

"It is worth buying a new iMac?"

It might be, but if you buy one before the new models are introduced (which is going to happen soon), you may be disappointed....

 

[New Apple]

"It is worth buying a new iMac?"

It might be, but if you buy one before the new models are introduced (which is going to happen soon), you may be disappointed....

it depends if Apple traps you into the SSD (default) at their own prices
(small capacity that forces you to add a secondary or increase the size of the first overp.)

 

[cocky jeremy]

I run Windows in Bootcamp because 1) I use Windows infrequently 2) It runs as fast as a native Windows machine -- zero emulation losses.

It is 100% reliable. What could possibly make Windows in Bootcamp "less reliable" ?

I don't mean Parallels makes the Mac more reliable than Boot Camp. I mean it's a more reliable to use Windows than having a Windows PC. I recommended Parallels/Fusion over Boot Camp for the reason of not having to switch back and forth between OS X and Windows.

 

[Mike Valmike]

But back to the Mac and Office. The OS X version of Microsoft Office is no match for its Windows sibling. The Windows versions eat Office:Mac alive and swallow it down in one piece. It's not even a contest. Office:Mac is a slow, buggy, handicapped crutch with less features when compared to Office for Windows. And it doesn't matter WHY this is the case or who's to blame or whose fault it is that there is no viable alternative to MS Office on the Mac.

Um, no. For Office 2008 maybe. That wasn't too great. But Office 2011 for Mac is effectively identical to Office 2010 for Windows, and I ought to know given that my livelihood requires me to use both every single day.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

Actually I'm thinking of the first option. Have just discovered that you can't simply change the HD in the new iMac for an SSD drive, for instance, w/o running into fan issues...is it so?! Because if it's true than it's gonna get even more boring to buy a computer where you can just add/remove RAM...

Not sure about the new iMacs and SSD's. I installed an SSD in my 2008 iMac and never heard of fan issues (or experienced them). It is a medium difficulty install (90% just removing screws) for my 2008.

Um, no. For Office 2008 maybe. That wasn't too great. But Office 2011 for Mac is effectively identical to Office 2010 for Windows, and I ought to know given that my livelihood requires me to use both every single day.

I have to strongly disagree with you on this. In Excel on Mac the simple lack of auto-complete for similar cells is a deal breaker for me, not to mention some VBA functions don't translate to VBA on a Mac. As for Word, I'm not as bothered by the Mac version although it does have a tendency to hang up every once in a while. If the OP were using just Mac:Word I wouldn't be as defiant, but if he's a bigtime Excel user then in no way can I recommend he use Office:Mac.

 

[Wrathwitch]

For what my opinion is worth. I recommend you going with the Windows machine.

I am a huge Mac fan as a coworker of mine. He still has a windows machine because some of the accounting software he requires for his other job is not compatable with OSX.

If you run the native OS for the predominant software you use, you will likely have less issues and frustrations in the end. 50% + work done on Windows MS software, GO FOR A WINDOWS machine imo. It will do the job you need. It may not be as pretty to look at (hardware). But only a fool who uses their machine for work will choose something for looks over the bread and butter work he has to do.

I finally knuckled under and bought a Gaming PC even though my iMac (2009) 27" quad core has done everything I needed it to up to present, but I admit to the graphics being just a bit tired for some newer games. So I have a PC for gaming and my iMac for everything else (I never use MS Office).

Let us know what you decide.

 

[forty2j]

I have to strongly disagree with you on this. In Excel on Mac the simple lack of auto-complete for similar cells is a deal breaker for me, not to mention some VBA functions don't translate to VBA on a Mac.

You like the auto-complete? I find it highly irritating. Usually I'm making a list of similar-but-not-quite-the-same values.

Hasn't MS themselves stopped work on VBA, asking people to use something (anything) else?

 

[LaunchpadBS]

Anyway it's gonna be quite hard to convince my wife that a standard PC might be as good as an iMac. Design is still a major issue for her... And I probably agree with that.

Software is the issue here, yes it looks purdy but there are loads of well crafted PCs out there nowdays. And they are the same quality (same internals for the most part)

Can you live without OS X? I personally can't

 

[GimmeSlack12]

Hasn't MS themselves stopped work on VBA, asking people to use something (anything) else?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they have. But who knows when I'll actually get to that process.

Regardless, I use what I use and others use what they use. Whatever helps you get the job done.

 

[CausticPuppy]

Hmmmm, if there are only a couple Windows programs you need, first check to see if they work with Crossover (which is WINE wrapped in a nicely packaged and supported distribution).

It's possible your Windows programs might run natively on OSX using that API layer.