I just looked up its specs - 29 to 31 Hz via single link, 59 to 61 via dual-link. Bummer.
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I hear you - 30 Hz is baaaaad.
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Jaguar on newer 'unsupported' hardware
- Thread starter Amethyst1
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Forgot to add...
You could try 2048×1152 at 60 Hz, 2096×1179 at 60 Hz, or 2112×1188 at 59 Hz which just about fit within single-link DVI. If your monitor takes to that, you'd at least not be stuck with 1080p anymore.
You could try 2048×1152 at 60 Hz, 2096×1179 at 60 Hz, or 2112×1188 at 59 Hz which just about fit within single-link DVI. If your monitor takes to that, you'd at least not be stuck with 1080p anymore.
Well, I'm less bothered by the lack of screen space than by the blurriness that comes with using something other than the native resolution. I suspect this won't get any better with the resolutions you're proposing, so it's probably not worth trying ... I'd be fine with 1080p if only it was sharp.
I've already tried that, and while it does look sharper, the pixels are annyoingly large indeed at this resolution. Has kind of a Super Nintendo feel to it. Also, at a resolution this low, space does start to become an issue after all. (Fun fact: Without any modification, I can only select 30 Hz for 1280x720 as well ...)
Boom! 
![2560x1440-Jag.png]( "2560x1440-Jag.png")
I realised as I was setting everything up that the PC Mac Edition 9600, is a 9600 Pro, so it has the same Device ID as the original PM7,2's 9600 Pro which is supported by 10.2.8 so I was a bit more confident things would work but the questions still remained, would the kexts play ball thanks to the same Device ID or still Kernel panic because of different hardware/ROM's from that 64MB G5 9600, secondly would the external NDRV the 9600 PC and Mac Edition requires, work in 10.2.8 and thirdly would it work at 2560x1440@60Hz?
well as you can see it does! as you can see the NDRV works I have 2560x1440 at 60Hz and so does GPU acceleration
amusing the displays control panel would crash when I tried to open it when connected to my 2560x1440 Dell U2715H monitor (connected up through my atlona AT-DP400 I kindly got from @Amethyst1 a while back exactly for this sort of experimentation )
but was fine when connected to my normal single link DVI test monitor, I forgot to enable monitor control in the menu bar so dont know if that would work, I do know that when I hot plugged the 2560x1440 monitor it crashed the system, but thankfully cold booting with the 2560x1440 monitor worked
twas pretty wild seeing Jaguar at 2560x1440 on my main monitor LOL (even just seeing the OpenFirmware prompt at that rez is always fun LOL)
I realised as I was setting everything up that the PC Mac Edition 9600, is a 9600 Pro, so it has the same Device ID as the original PM7,2's 9600 Pro which is supported by 10.2.8 so I was a bit more confident things would work but the questions still remained, would the kexts play ball thanks to the same Device ID or still Kernel panic because of different hardware/ROM's from that 64MB G5 9600, secondly would the external NDRV the 9600 PC and Mac Edition requires, work in 10.2.8 and thirdly would it work at 2560x1440@60Hz?
well as you can see it does! as you can see the NDRV works I have 2560x1440 at 60Hz and so does GPU acceleration
amusing the displays control panel would crash when I tried to open it when connected to my 2560x1440 Dell U2715H monitor (connected up through my atlona AT-DP400 I kindly got from @Amethyst1 a while back exactly for this sort of experimentation
)but was fine when connected to my normal single link DVI test monitor, I forgot to enable monitor control in the menu bar so dont know if that would work, I do know that when I hot plugged the 2560x1440 monitor it crashed the system, but thankfully cold booting with the 2560x1440 monitor worked
twas pretty wild seeing Jaguar at 2560x1440 on my main monitor LOL (even just seeing the OpenFirmware prompt at that rez is always fun LOL)
thanks this is exactly the sort of stuff I live for so when someone actually needed it tested and had I already had the hardware on hand I was more then happy to oblige and try and get it working
I would have probably tested it myself regardless out of sheer curiosity as per above eventually!
Any chance of this working in 10.1.5 even without accelerated graphics?
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On the T221 at 3840×2400, it makes my eyes explode LOL.
Oh, wow! Thanks a lot for trying this out!
What exactly did you have to do? Just install the ATi drivers? I guess you'd have to install Jaguar first with a different graphics card installed, as the install DVD would not work with the 9600 PC & Mac edition at all?
Do you think this is a "stable" configuration?
(If yes, this would probably "force" me to buy a Power Mac and try to find this card after all … I guess a G5 PowerMac7,2 would work fine as well?)
Thanks a lot for trying this out!What exactly did you have to do? Just install the ATi drivers? I guess you'd have to install Jaguar first with a different graphics card installed, as the install DVD would not work with the 9600 PC & Mac edition at all?
Do you think this is a "stable" configuration?
(If yes, this would probably "force" me to buy a Power Mac and try to find this card after all
… I guess a G5 PowerMac7,2 would work fine as well?)
Oh, wow!
What exactly did you have to do? Just install the ATi drivers? I guess you'd have to install Jaguar first with a different graphics card installed, as the install DVD would not work with the 9600 PC & Mac edition at all?
Do you think this is a "stable" configuration?
(If yes, this would probably "force" me to buy a Power Mac and try to find this card after all
you can boot 10.2.8 at least without installing ATI Displays 4.5.7 first, but you boot to a broken greyscale because of no NDRV (and OS X not knowing how to use the OpenFirmware frame buffer properly!)
so I would recommend using another/the machines factory graphics card to install the ATI Displays 4.5.7 stuff first
as for stability, its not something I particularly tested but it did not crash on me randomly, but I have not tried changing rez on the fly and I do know hot plugging it once did crash the system but that was not something I revisited to see if it was a one off a sure fire way to bring the system down LOL
(I just unplugged the secondary 1080p monitor and cold booted with just the 1440p monitor hooked up and all was fine)
and once it was up and running it seemed fine
yeah a PowerMac7,2 should work with the appropriate G5 build of Jaguar (restore disks for which are on the Macintosh garden) but its not a configuration I have personally tested
Ok, I see.
Could you, by any chance, check if you can reproduce the crash through hot-plugging or changing the resolution? Would be awesome!
Do you think it could have something to do with the adapter you're using?
Could you, by any chance, check if you can reproduce the crash through hot-plugging or changing the resolution? Would be awesome!
Do you think it could have something to do with the adapter you're using?
did a little bit more testing and can confirm that hot plugging my Dell monitor will crash the system, but it does it on both ports including the Single link port, so it might just be a bug with my monitor and the system or such etc
as long as you boot the system with the monitor already plugged in its perfectly fine, the little display preferences menu bar applet has no idea what to make of it tho LOL (probably the same reason system preferences crashes when ya click on displays)
Pardon my ignorance, but what can be run on Jaguar today ? Or Panther ? Seems there is more support for Tiger and leopard, unless installs this just to see how Mac OS X used to look like.
There's one big reason to run Jag over later versions.
forums.macrumors.com
Classic on Tiger/Panther vs. Jaguar/Puma/Cheetah
Some while back, I had stumbled upon the claim that something fundamental changed in Classic when OS X transitioned from 10.2 Jaguar to 10.3 Panther, which was something about it becoming "double-buffered" or something to that effect. I thought of asking here if there's anyone who knows more...
forums.macrumors.com
Some people want to run the best version of Mac OS 9.2, for most uses, and that happens to be in 10.2. Why do you think there's so much activity about it compared to 10.3?
Of course, if you need direct hardware access, that's a whole different matter, but the only way to properly run the original Escape Velocity outside of 9.2 is to run it in 10.2. On 10.4, it's a slideshow. It's a 68k app, designed for a world of 70 mhz 68020 chips, or thereabouts. it shouldn't be a slideshow on a 700mhz G4 eMac, and it's not when running directly in OS 9, either. But 9 hates my kvm switch, while 10 has no problems with it.
Beyond that, we're getting into "why bother with ppc hardware at all?" territory. And, I mean, there's not so many great ways to run OS 9 apps that use a gpu, or a ppc mmu, for that matter. Yes, we have QEMU, but it's such a mess trying to get sound out of it, and just setting the thing up is a headache.
And I mean, if you're going to use a ppc Mac at all, why not try to do it all?
This is true.. however, the only Mac I have that is capable of Jaguar is my PowerBook G4 1GHZ Titanium and I haven't installed it to get a feel of it. As for OS 9, I have a modified OS 9 from os9lives.com - I didn't use the installer disc that came, since the one I found on os9lives.com has some extras built in. I do like OS 9 a lot and PowerPC of course I will always believe it was better than x86. With ARM, the final defeat of Intel is coming and I am so so glad about that. PowerPC WON the war, but as an incarnation within ARM.
I never ran 68k apps on my G4 PowerbOOK - Do I need an emulator to run these under OS 9.2.3 ? oPPS, 9.2.2 ?
No extra software needed to run 68k apps under OS 9. Note that 68k app compatibility isn't 100%, so you may encounter some 68k apps that refuse to work on PPC.
In my experience, I've had more trouble with apps from the 80's expecting 16-color video modes, and not finding them, than real 68k emulation trouble, and that speaks to the quality of Apple's 68k emulator in PowerPC versions of OS 9.
Newer Macs simply can't do anything lower than 256 color, and old apps have trouble with that.
So, for instance If I wanted to run a nice game from 1995, I can do it under OS 9, but anything from 1980's 0 1985-1989, will not run correctly ? I think the lowest OS 9 I can go is 9.2.2 - My Pismo which I retired a few months ago can run 9.0.4, I could only get OS 8, or below to run using an emulator.
Depends on the app. I personally haven't delved too deeply into the 80's but the 90's, especially around 1990, seems to be something of a minefield of "this program will run better in 16-color mode" and "this program will only run in 16-color mode."
The first can be ignored because we're using hardware orders of magnitude more powerful than it's expecting, but the second doesn't have a solution other than older video hardware, or a more purpose built emulator. I've personally never run into anything in the OS 9 kernel that can't actually handle old 68k software, but perhaps I haven't looked hard enough.
I wonder if there is a MAME or MESS for OS 9 ? If anything, I like playing the retro-arcade games under OS 9. While Leopard runs very very nicely and fast on this 1GHZ Titanium(I feel its faster than my DLSD 1.67 which lacked L3 cache), its a great system for running older stuff.. Given also the 1GHZ titanium supports LBA 48 I can put any size MSATA drive in here that I want.