Come on, Apple drives and encourages manufacturers to set prices high.
Any SATA device can be connected to the adapter.
There's a thread in the iMac forum where a member validated the interface for non Seagate SATA devices.
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LaCie Hub Now Shipping, Connects eSATA Drives via Thunderbolt
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Any SATA device can be connected to the adapter.
There's a thread in the iMac forum where a member validated the interface for non Seagate SATA devices.
Apple bought 18 million Thunderbolt controllers from Intel in the first year of production, added them to every new Mac they introduced in 2011 and the ATD. None of these products were more expensive than their non-Thunderbolt equipped predecessors. Apple has subsidized the introduction of this technology to a degree. Even the much maligned $49 cable probably carries a significantly lower margin than other Apple cables.
Low adoption rate is actually less likely to be the cause of the current high prices for Thunderbolt devices than supply pressure. The developers of these products only get the controllers that are left over after Intel feeds Apple, and they don't seem to be having a hard time selling their wares despite the pricing.
We just need maturity to come to the platform. This LaCie device has 10 additional chips in it to provide a DP++ signal on the unused Thunderbolt port. Allegedly, some of that will be integrated into the next generation controllers. Also, the Light Ridge chip is just plain big. Once it's gone through a couple die shrinks it should come down to a much more reasonable price.
You can attach any SATA drive to the GoFlex adapters. Read philipma1957's thread here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1317577/
And I absolutely call ******** on your Apple Store story. For one, there's the Apple Thunderbolt Display. And furthermore, part of the reason Thunderbolt accessories are hard to find is because supplies tend to sell out quickly due to a scarcity of controllers available for third-party use.
Oh awesome, that brings the total number of Thunderbolt devices to 7!
Its been way over a year since the first Macs have come out with thunderbolt... I can't wait for USB 3.0 to be standard on all new Macs; speeds fast enough that no SSD drive can saturate, cheap cables, cheap peripherals, backwards compatibility with all my USB 1.0 & 2.0 devices and more importantly:
works on virtually every computer sold in the last 10 years meaning external hard drives arent bound to just my computer.
As good as thunderbolt is on paper, its a 'bag of hurt' (thank you steve jobs for that wonderful line).
Its been way over a year since the first Macs have come out with thunderbolt... I can't wait for USB 3.0 to be standard on all new Macs; speeds fast enough that no SSD drive can saturate, cheap cables, cheap peripherals, backwards compatibility with all my USB 1.0 & 2.0 devices and more importantly:
works on virtually every computer sold in the last 10 years meaning external hard drives arent bound to just my computer.
As good as thunderbolt is on paper, its a 'bag of hurt' (thank you steve jobs for that wonderful line).
I didn't say I couldn't find ANY T-bolt peripherals, I said I was looking to see what new ones may have arrived. Made no comment to the effect that you couldn't find any T-Bolt anything. But if you're looking for a storage solution and don't need a new monitor the ATDisplay isn't going to mean anything to you. Great. A monitor with a T-Bolt port. And I understand WHY there's a scarcity of products on the market and wasn't commenting on that, just how these two widgets (the LaCie and the Seagate) aren't very convincing ways to spend money. Besides, the scarcity of controllers available is a very small aspect to the scarcity of T-Bolt solutions in the field. The big picture is that peripheral manufacturers have been moving slowly on it because that suits them. We all thought there would have been many, many pro audio, video, data storage solutions even just ANNOUNCED at the trade shows since the port has been on Apple laptops, but that didn't happen. They're finally dribbling in but not in the right places. The average joe has no sense that he needs to get any of these current Thunderbolt products. Why should he? There is no convincing argument on the consumer front that isn't mostly theoretical. Why would he need it? Maybe if there was an awesome peripheral to use it with, but...these two, the LaCie and Seagates are the ones getting the most press, but I would much rather see a widget that I didn't have to rationalize a hundred ways why it's really not so bad for the price.
None of that addresses what any normal computer buyer cares about. I have 2 Seagate FW800 SATA adapters (with 2 ports) that came with all cables. I bought them for $20 each new at Best Buy. I like them. According to the CNET Go Flex T-Bolt review there was not a noteworthy leap in performance between it and FW800. So if anyone is asking if they should spend $99 + $50 cable for that I'd say no, it's not worth it. Why would it be? It sounds like a terrible purchase. Go find a FW800 version.
read this thread the seagate t-bolt adapter works well and has had extensive testing.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1317577/
This is a solid product with ssds works very well. You can make your iMac, Mac mini , macbook air or macbook pro have up to a 256gb ssd with sata III speeds. Or you can run them with the big Intel 600 gb sata II ssd's. It is not perfect as it does not run well with 512gb sata III ssd's.
It is viable gear for a person with 2 imacs one for work and one at home or an iMac at work and a macbook pro. You can have a portable osx with fast speeds.
Sorry, I didn't phrase my comment correctly... I meant to imply that any Apple Store person who said their store hadn't sold any Thunderbolt accessories was clearly full of it.
Oh awesome, that brings the total number of Thunderbolt devices to 7!
Its been way over a year since the first Macs have come out with thunderbolt... I can't wait for USB 3.0 to be standard on all new Macs; speeds fast enough that no SSD drive can saturate, cheap cables, cheap peripherals, backwards compatibility with all my USB 1.0 & 2.0 devices and more importantly:
works on virtually every computer sold in the last 10 years meaning external hard drives arent bound to just my computer.
As good as thunderbolt is on paper, its a 'bag of hurt' (thank you steve jobs for that wonderful line).
It's actually up to at least 22 now! There's a reasonable cross section of them listed on Intel's fluff page here: https://thunderbolttechnology.net/products
You seem to have missed the part where a single $80 SSD can already saturate a USB 3.0 connection.
Also, how is having the ability to push 10 Gbps of PCIe packets over your mini-DP port a "bag of hurt"? Some of the devices that have been forthcoming from third-parties may be questionable, but nothing about Apple's implementation has been detrimental to the consumer in any way, has it?
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That would be because the limitation is the HDD you're attaching to it. If you're connecting a SATA 6Gb/s SSD, the performance gap between the two is massive. Once again, read philipma1957's thread or this review: http://www.storagereview.com/thunderbolt_storage_with_any_hard_drive_or_ssd
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buy an imac and add the oem 256gb internal ssd keeping the hdd cost 600 extra see thumbnail.
Go buy a seagate adapter cost 99 buy a cable cost 49 buy a mushkin 240gb ssd sata II cost 273 total 422. add to you imac a savings of 178. (buy a spare 128gb ssd as a backup) .
The ssd will smoke the internal one apple puts in. Plus if it breaks you can put the spare ssd in as an instant backup.
Millions of computer people use an iMac for business and the ability to have super fast easy to replace portable osx that can be put in a safe place over night or be taken home by the owner is huge.
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This falls far short of expectations for Thunderbolt. From the first day that it was available on a MacBook, there should have been a hub with all the same ports that are on the back of Apple's Thunderbolt Display and it should have been affordable. There should also have been SSD disks with native thunderbolt ports to show off its superiority over SATA, USB 3, FW800, etc. For all its technological superiority, products like this hub show how half-heartedly the backers of Thunderbolt support it and that it will at best be relegated to niche pro segments of the overall computer market.
Definitely buying this! On eBay for $40 max. Once I have a newer Mac.
Apple, to promote Thunderbolt, should actually make the Thunderbolt cables come WITH the new Macs. It makes me just want to keep using FireWire, and I do.
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USB 3.0 is a bag of hurt, which is why Steve was trying to go to Thunderbolt. Why? Look up USB on Google. It's horrible. The promised speeds of USB 3.0 (and all versions) are much higher than reality, and it wastes your CPU. All of the video pros use IEEE 4-pin (aka old FireWire) because all of the camcorders use it because USB doesn't have the capability.
SSDs already saturate USB 3.0, but I don't know about Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt has WAY more capabilities than USB 3.0. You could connect everything you need for you Mac with just one Thunderbolt cable (except for power... for now). Fiber optics have been used since the 80s and have always been "the future".
I'm sure a lot of devices will stay at 2.0 since they don't even need 3.0, and 3.0 might even be killed (or made obscure) just because every consumer device will still use 2.0.
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It may be DisplayPort without Thunderbolt.
Apple, to promote Thunderbolt, should actually make the Thunderbolt cables come WITH the new Macs. It makes me just want to keep using FireWire, and I do.
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Oh awesome, that brings the total number of Thunderbolt devices to 7!
Its been way over a year since the first Macs have come out with thunderbolt... I can't wait for USB 3.0 to be standard on all new Macs; speeds fast enough that no SSD drive can saturate, cheap cables, cheap peripherals, backwards compatibility with all my USB 1.0 & 2.0 devices and more importantly:
works on virtually every computer sold in the last 10 years meaning external hard drives arent bound to just my computer.
As good as thunderbolt is on paper, its a 'bag of hurt' (thank you steve jobs for that wonderful line).
USB 3.0 is a bag of hurt, which is why Steve was trying to go to Thunderbolt. Why? Look up USB on Google. It's horrible. The promised speeds of USB 3.0 (and all versions) are much higher than reality, and it wastes your CPU. All of the video pros use IEEE 4-pin (aka old FireWire) because all of the camcorders use it because USB doesn't have the capability.
SSDs already saturate USB 3.0, but I don't know about Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt has WAY more capabilities than USB 3.0. You could connect everything you need for you Mac with just one Thunderbolt cable (except for power... for now). Fiber optics have been used since the 80s and have always been "the future".
I'm sure a lot of devices will stay at 2.0 since they don't even need 3.0, and 3.0 might even be killed (or made obscure) just because every consumer device will still use 2.0.
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It may be DisplayPort without Thunderbolt.
This is an interesting alternative.
Sonnet Thunderbolt - ExpressCard 34 Adapter. £129.97
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ECHO-E34-Th...L90K/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1333696913&sr=8-8
Sonnet Thunderbolt - ExpressCard 34 Adapter. £129.97
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ECHO-E34-Th...L90K/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1333696913&sr=8-8
Perhaps $50.-, but not this nonsense. I wonder what new connectivity they will come up with in two years. Maybe "Thunderscrew"? The apple cinema display for instance should have some sort of rear plug for customers to have a choice of an appropriate apple cable assembly to suite individual needs at the other end. At no charge. My G-speed Q Raid is perfectly fine with FW800 and they are not exactly jumping to TB with significant market penetration. Apple should perhaps rethink their interface game with third party manufacturers before buyers get really sick and tired of lack of back compatibilities.
The leading companies that make pro video hardware (AJA, Blackmagic & Matrox) all announced and/or started shipping ThB I/O devices last year. Promise has shipped a ThB to fiber adapter. Sonnet announced a number of ThB devices last year although they have only started shipping one (an ExpressCard34 to ThB adapter).
While not a landslide of devices it's enough to give significantly more flexibility to video production hardware decisions than just 12 months ago.
Your G-Speed Q RAID is being majorly bottle necked by FW800 and G-Tech announced and demo'd ThB drives last year (they just haven't started shipping them yet). I wouldn't be surprised if being bought by Hitachi has temporarily delayed some of the new products getting out the door.
Lethal
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I got one for $5. Just saying, the USB to SATA adapter would go at the slow USB speeds, making it pointless. I only use my adapter to test hard drives or get data to/from an internal drive of some other computer.
I think Apple needs to start producing their own TB peripherals if they want TB to take off. Its not about driving down the cost (which wouldn't be Apple's style): its about driving up the value and widening the appeal.
The third parties have had a year, and come up with a couple of expensive external drives and some specialist video editing peripherals. Oh yes, there's the Seagate GoFlex adapter which lacks a Thunderbolt daisy chain connector and so is useless to anybody who uses a MacBook with an external monitor. The most interesting products are the TB-to-expresscard and TB-to-PCIe adapters - but then you still have to find a suitable card to plug in to do what you want.
This Lacie adapter probably falls into the "specialist" niche: it makes sense if (e.g.) you're a video editor with a bookcase full of eSATA drives containing valuable material, but not if you just want a way of adding a new external HD.
None of these are "good value" outside of the niches at which they are aimed. They're working on a deficit model - fixing problems for people migrating from Pros and expressCard-equipped MBPs - rather than capitalising on what TB could do for the rest of us.
What the makers don't seem to get is this: once you've produced a nice box, added the Thunderbolt-to-PCIe bridge, TB in and out sockets and the TB cable (if you don't include it in the price, the customer is going to mentally add $50 anyway) you have something which is already going to have to retail for $100+ before you even add any functionality. Once you've paid the TB premium, why not cream it with every interface under the sun using cheap-as-chips PCIe-based controllers? I don't want to add lots of single-function boxes and pay for a new box, TB-to-PCIe bridge and $50 cable each time - and while you can hook 6 boxes together that's going to get messy.
The most promising thing so far is the still-not-available Belkin hub:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/9/26...ress-dock-will-finally-go-on-sale-this-summer
So, that would be my monitor (via the TB daisychain), possible extra monitor (via HDMI, if that works) network, Firewire drives, USB mouse, keyboard etc. hooked up to my laptop with one cable - cool.... but... $300 for a bit of Belkin silver plastic? No USB3? No eSATA (why connect new hard drives via a "middle man" interface like USB or Firewire? With eSATA to connect fast HDs, lack of USB3 becomes much less of an issue)...
However, if Apple took that concept, wrapped it up in a classy bit of Jonny Ive milled Aluminium (actually, a Mac Mini case might do) added eSATA (reducing the need for USB3) and, maybe, build in a MagSafe PSU, then I'd be begging them to take my $300.
I'd buy a TB display in a shot if I didn't have pre-Thunderbolt devices that I'd want to use with my main monitor.
All current hard drives have a SATA connector. Doesn't mean that will always be the case, especially now there are faster connector protocols such as Thunderbolt.
But currently your info reinforces my query. What advantage does this hub have apart from daisy-chaining when it is connecting to slower devices?
Currently Thunderbolt only seems to have a theoretical advantage and a big cost disadvantage compared to USB3. That needs to change for it to succeed.
Confused
I'm super confused by all the TB hate going on in here. TB has been a super exciting lifesaver for me and the people I know. Being able to have add ons like this http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/ultrastudio3d/ and intensity extreme in the field and also in studio has been killer. Makes the iMac and mac mini actual work machines now that we can finally have real extras without access to pcie like a normal tower.
The 27" iMac with 12 gigs of memory and the 6970 2gig is a cheep super compact easy to work with editing machine. Of course you may want a mac pro or custom pc for super heavy work but these kick ass for news and simple shoots.
I'm super confused by all the TB hate going on in here. TB has been a super exciting lifesaver for me and the people I know. Being able to have add ons like this http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/ultrastudio3d/ and intensity extreme in the field and also in studio has been killer. Makes the iMac and mac mini actual work machines now that we can finally have real extras without access to pcie like a normal tower.
The 27" iMac with 12 gigs of memory and the 6970 2gig is a cheep super compact easy to work with editing machine. Of course you may want a mac pro or custom pc for super heavy work but these kick ass for news and simple shoots.
It's connected via DisplayPort. Thunderbolt is backwards compatible with DisplayPort.
Aside from the MacBook Air, all other Thunderbolt equipped Macs already come with all of the ports on the back of the ATD. I guess Apple figured they'd throw them in for free if you bought one of their displays, and overall, it's a pretty reasonable solution for an MBA owner.
Thunderbolt is a meta-protocol that wraps DisplayPort and PCIe packets, there isn't really a "native" Thunderbolt. Sort of like ExpressCard with PCIe and USB. On the day that ExpressCard was released there were no "native" ExpressCard SSD's to show its superiority and yet nobody proclaimed it was doomed to failure. Thunderbolt overlays PCIe capabilities on top of a digital display interface and only requires about 5% of the internal volume that ExpressCard does. At the same time, it offers considerably more throughput than even ExpressCard 2.0, which has barely seen the light of day.
Why don't you round up all of the ExpressCard and PCIe cards designed specifically for the Mac and see how big of a pile you get. If you aren't using the USB interface through ExpressCard, or PCIe to x silicon for which a usable Mac OS X driver exists, you have to write and validate your own. For the limited market that exists for these devices, that can be an issue.
I think you mean Hitachi being bought by WD/Toshiba, but yes it does seem to have delayed new products. That and the Thailand flooding which did no favors for WD or Hitachi.
I bet Thunderbolt will be far more popular for connecting high resolution (2560x1440) displays than USB 3.0. As a replacement for mini-DisplayPort, which it is, it offers very few disadvantages. As a connection for a hard drive, it has issues until you need better than FW 800 or (soon) USB 3.0 performance.
Ay, there's the rub isn't it. There aren't a lot of PCIe cards or ExpressCards out there designed specifically for the Mac either. Writing and supporting drivers for Mac OS X is a bit of a hassle, so most manufacturers don't bother.
The Thunderbolt controller does all the Thunderbolt to PCIe conversion for you, but it doesn't take care of all of the Thunderbolt to DP++ details. In addition to the dual port Thunderbolt controller being 50% more expensive (and 50% bigger) it also requires using about 10 more chips to handle video output in case someone wants to connect a DisplayPort device to it. Thus single port devices for less than $85 and dual port devices for less than $175 are pretty unlikely during the first go round.
While I agree that you might as well make a completely tricked-out device if you're already going to have to charge $200 for it, the problem is once again with the drivers. You've got to get all of those PCIe to whatever bridges working. I'm guessing that's why Belkin is so far behind schedule with their hub, the complexity kinda killed it.
Another overpriced Apple peripheral. People are actually surprised?
As others have said, it is Lacie, not apple. But yes, I am surprised tbh. Starting with the pricing of the iPad and iPhone, Apple found a 'sweet spot' for pricing. Since iPad gen 1, I've bought a number of Apple products that didn't feel over priced at all.
"I suspect, however, that for the next few years, USB3 will be ubiquitous, while TB will end up much like FireWire."
By the end of this year, USB3 will have eclipsed both Firewire 800 -and- Thunderbolt, and will have become "the new standard" for connecting external devices to Macintosh computers.
It will at once be faster than Firewire, and an order of magnitude more affordable (and easier to connect) than Thunderbolt.
Nothing wrong with Firewire, but Apple doesn't seem willing to take it faster than the "800 level", and the majority of consumers seem to prefer USB. Firewire will die a slow death on the Mac, but it will soon go the way of SCSI. By the way, I've still got a couple of old external SCSI enclosures in this room. What to do with them?
Thunderbolt seemed to be the "technology of the future", UNTIL it was actually introduced. And then.... nothing to connect it to. Fifty bucks for a simple cable? Who's going to buy this?
Thunderbolt is destined to become the "Edsel" of connection technologies. A few folks will find use for it, but for the overwhelming majority of users, the Thunderbolt port will be "a port ignored".
I was never previously a fan of USB, which -- at least in the beginning -- had all sorts of glitches vis-a-vis Firewire. But that seems to be changing. For the next few years, it looks like USB will rule the roost....
By the end of this year, USB3 will have eclipsed both Firewire 800 -and- Thunderbolt, and will have become "the new standard" for connecting external devices to Macintosh computers.
It will at once be faster than Firewire, and an order of magnitude more affordable (and easier to connect) than Thunderbolt.
Nothing wrong with Firewire, but Apple doesn't seem willing to take it faster than the "800 level", and the majority of consumers seem to prefer USB. Firewire will die a slow death on the Mac, but it will soon go the way of SCSI. By the way, I've still got a couple of old external SCSI enclosures in this room. What to do with them?
Thunderbolt seemed to be the "technology of the future", UNTIL it was actually introduced. And then.... nothing to connect it to. Fifty bucks for a simple cable? Who's going to buy this?
Thunderbolt is destined to become the "Edsel" of connection technologies. A few folks will find use for it, but for the overwhelming majority of users, the Thunderbolt port will be "a port ignored".
I was never previously a fan of USB, which -- at least in the beginning -- had all sorts of glitches vis-a-vis Firewire. But that seems to be changing. For the next few years, it looks like USB will rule the roost....
Adding a HD in the old days ran $900... if you NEED IT, you'll BUY IT!
I paid 1000's for a Mac II ci lol... it was there for users who needed it, no big deal but the prices WILL come down.