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colinwil

macrumors 6502
Nov 15, 2010
296
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Reading, UK
I'm honestly not sure if your prior question was answered well. Bluetooth 4.0 cannot transmit higher than about 128kbps. This means that when Bluetooth is used, you have to take whatever audio you have and decode it to a "wave", then reencode it in near-real-time to push it over the low power protocol, Bluetooth....

I don't know where 128kbps comes from. Their Bluetooth guidelines at https://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/BluetoothDesignGuidelines.pdf state

iOS devices support the non-mandatory codec MPEG-2/4 AAC, as defined in Section 4.5 of the A2DP specification, Version 1.2. Accessories should use the AAC codec in addition to SBC, because it provides higher audio quality for a given bit rate.

The MPEG 2/4 AAC Codec Specific Information Elements, defined in Section 4.5 of the A2DP specification, that are applicable to iOS devices are listed in Table 2-2 (page 16).

Table 2-2 MPEG-2/4 AAC Codec Information Elements for iOS devices

Element Value
Object Type MPEG-2 AAC LC
Sampling Frequency 44,100 Hz
Channels 2
Bit rate 264,630 bps
VBR 0​


The document also says that the audio payload in the packets that get streamed are MPEG-4 AAC, which kind of implies that the audio doesn't get lossily decoded and re-encoded as long as the source music files are MPEG-4. (but who knows!)
 

drumcat

macrumors 65816
Feb 28, 2008
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Otautahi, Aotearoa
I don't know where 128kbps comes from. Their Bluetooth guidelines at https://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/BluetoothDesignGuidelines.pdf state

iOS devices support the non-mandatory codec MPEG-2/4 AAC, as defined in Section 4.5 of the A2DP specification, Version 1.2. Accessories should use the AAC codec in addition to SBC, because it provides higher audio quality for a given bit rate.

The MPEG 2/4 AAC Codec Specific Information Elements, defined in Section 4.5 of the A2DP specification, that are applicable to iOS devices are listed in Table 2-2 (page 16).

Table 2-2 MPEG-2/4 AAC Codec Information Elements for iOS devices

Element Value
Object Type MPEG-2 AAC LC
Sampling Frequency 44,100 Hz
Channels 2
Bit rate 264,630 bps
VBR 0​


The document also says that the audio payload in the packets that get streamed are MPEG-4 AAC, which kind of implies that the audio doesn't get lossily decoded and re-encoded as long as the source music files are MPEG-4. (but who knows!)

It comes from most devices not supporting A2DP, and the 4.0 Spec... specifically, it maxes out at 1Mbit.

Edit: most Bluetooth headphones. A lot of that comes down to power usage, as well.
[doublepost=1462973549][/doublepost]
I don't know where 128kbps comes from. Their Bluetooth guidelines at https://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/BluetoothDesignGuidelines.pdf state


Element Value
Object Type MPEG-2 AAC LC
Sampling Frequency 44,100 Hz
Channels 2
Bit rate 264,630 bps
VBR 0​


The document also says that the audio payload in the packets that get streamed are MPEG-4 AAC, which kind of implies that the audio doesn't get lossily decoded and re-encoded as long as the source music files are MPEG-4. (but who knows!)

Agreed here - if there's A2DP on the other side, it provides for packet transfer, and lets the headphones do the decoding. This does require about a 400mhz processor on the headphone side to handle the 256k AAC decode. Again, that's a power issue.

If both sides used A2DP, and the headphones have a power supply within reason, a good DAC with low noise, and the processing power on-board to handle the 256 AAC file, YES! It will be, within reason, transparent. I would love for that to happen! Unfortunately, I don't know of ANY headphone that does this yet. They all seem to do BT4.0 because the power supply isn't as tapped, and the chipsets are cheap and proven.

More: If you want to create a chain using that type of connection, you're talking your current 3.5mm plugging into a powered A2DP BT receiver. If the current state of those types of receivers are anything to go by, it is going to be a very pricy addition to get the audio quality up. Probably no less than $50 any time soon, and probably a couple hundo for a good one that's not adding white noise and has a good battery life. Frankly, I'd opt for the inline LDAC cable to avoid *yet another* thing I have to charge...
 
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colinwil

macrumors 6502
Nov 15, 2010
296
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If both sides used A2DP, and the headphones have a power supply within reason, a good DAC with low noise, and the processing power on-board to handle the 256 AAC file, YES! It will be, within reason, transparent. I would love for that to happen! Unfortunately, I don't know of ANY headphone that does this yet.

My Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 Wireless headphones do. Of course we could have endless debates about what's "HiFi" - but they sound great to me :) , and latency while watching movies/playing games doesn't seem to be an issue either.
 
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Mac 128

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Apr 16, 2015
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If they really thought 3.5 was bad, why are they STILL including them on laptops and iPads?

Who said that? I didn't.

The obvious answer here is because Apple is not going to remove the 3.5mm Jack from their other products before they remove it from their best selling flagship device. Nor do I see them removing the jack from any product which otherwise has room to retain it, since I doubt Apple sees 3.5mm as being bad.

You, like many others are still proceeding from the standpoint that Apple is arbitrarily removing the headphone jack, out of greed, or some other self-interested motivation. But in light of Intel's marketing for USB-C audio there would seem to be some confirmation that all mobile phone makers must eventually remove the headphone jack to accomodate improvements and new features in their flagship devices to stay competitive, and keep their devices as small and light as possible. Otherwise this would be the dumbest move imaginable as they would give the competition a free shot at easily picking off customers, never to recover. Unless, of course, Apple is about to revolutionize the mobile audio business.

Nothing you've pointed out makes any sense for Apple to do, but then you are debating from what I consider an incorrect assumption that is further based on what is technically possible and being done in the existing market -- which is at best 2 year old technology -- and not what Apple might bring to it with the latest developments.

Seriously, I don't know how to debate with someone who assumes Apple is just arrogantly removing one of the most widely used ports in the world, and replacing it with two year old, inferior wireless audio technology, and expensive, clunky, inconvenient adapters; just to make a few extra bucks on adapters and headphone sales. It's an absolutely ludicrous position to take.

If Apple does what you and others keep saying, then they deserve all the failure they've got coming.
 

drumcat

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Feb 28, 2008
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My Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 Wireless headphones do. Of course we could have endless debates about what's "HiFi" - but they sound great to me :) , and latency while watching movies/playing games doesn't seem to be an issue either.

That setup is a great one. Would love to see that in some sub-$500 cans.
[doublepost=1462977714][/doublepost]
Who said that? I didn't.

The obvious answer here is because Apple is not going to remove the 3.5mm Jack from their other products before they remove it from their best selling flagship device. Nor do I see them removing the jack from any product which otherwise has room to retain it, since I doubt Apple sees 3.5mm as being bad.

You, like many others are still proceeding from the standpoint that Apple is arbitrarily removing the headphone jack, out of greed, or some other self-interested motivation. But in light of Intel's marketing for USB-C audio there would seem to be some confirmation that all mobile phone makers must eventually remove the headphone jack to accomodate improvements and new features in their flagship devices to stay competitive, and keep their devices as small and light as possible. Otherwise this would be the dumbest move imaginable as they would give the competition a free shot at easily picking off customers, never to recover. Unless, of course, Apple is about to revolutionize the mobile audio business.

Nothing you've pointed out makes any sense for Apple to do, but then you are debating from what I consider an incorrect assumption that is further based on what is technically possible and being done in the existing market -- which is at best 2 year old technology -- and not what Apple might bring to it with the latest developments.

Seriously, I don't know how to debate with someone who assumes Apple is just arrogantly removing one of the most widely used ports in the world, and replacing it with two year old, inferior wireless audio technology, and expensive, clunky, inconvenient adapters; just to make a few extra bucks on adapters and headphone sales. It's an absolutely ludicrous position to take.

If Apple does what you and others keep saying, then they deserve all the failure they've got coming.

You're leaving both sides here...

I don't want them to remove it. I can't make that more clear. I just keep having people say there must be some reason Apple is doing it.

Maybe there is a reason. You're pointing to Intel marketing here... I have no idea. As was said many times before, it makes no sense to remove it to me. Don't confuse me as someone who wants it gone.
 

Mac 128

macrumors 603
Apr 16, 2015
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I do understand that. I own Lightning headphones that do that today. The Sony MDR-1adac. And I'm glad they do that because they sound better out of the iPhone's 3.5mm jack.

That said, 2 of the 3 headphones in the video don't do that.

I don't know if it is an issue with supporting multiple standards, but my Lightning headphones cannot draw power from the phone (they must be charged unless using 3.5mm) and cannot have their volume controlled by the phone, instead the volume on the phone stops working and you must use a dial on the headphones themselves. They can take in digital audio from any device with a ton of cable choices, but they don't support all of the features of any device. Maybe this is why the $800 pair doesn't support USB audio like my pair does. Might be hard to draw power and use proprietary features for multiple standards on the same chip.

The cable swapping thing will further raise prices as well. Paying Apple a Lightning license fee (and supplying the cable) for every pair of headphones you sell to an Android isn't very cost effective.

Apple may do it with Beats, but this all seems so strange, especially guaranteeing users that they'll get the same audio quality if they switch to Android. I switched to Android for a year and audio quality was a nightmare and the main reason I came back to Apple. If I'd owned my digital headphones then, audio quality wouldn't have come into play... Except for the fact that they still sound better through 3.5 (though only a very negligible amount). If Apple drops 3.5, forcing me to use my headphones digitally, I will definitely shop around for my next device. They will have given up a huge advantage that they currently have, as most Android phones use a terrible DAC that is built into the Snapdragon system on a chip. The phones with great displays tend to use that DAC, the phones with good DACs tend to use washed out displays.

But in general, you are right that swappable headphones do/will exist... And even though mine are a pain because of charging, I'd definitely suggest that no one buy any that can't be swapped. The $800 ones in the video are the perfect example... Even though they support 3.5mm, they clearly require a high volume output, making them useless for laptops, tablets, non-Apple phones. There's no telling what devices you'll own in 5 years, or even whether Apple will still use the Lightning cable. You don't want to upgrade $800 headphones until they break. I've got 3.5mm studio monitor headphones that I've owned for a decade.

Again, we're looking at 2 year old technology which has not necessarily been implemented in accordance with Apple's Lightning audio standards, which were published over a year ago. Apple almost always specifies things without explanation, and leaves certain things vague, which turn out to be for reasons Apple eventually exploits later when they enter the market with their own products.

So I wouldn't look at anything about a current product and assume Aple's just going to give us more of the same.

Will Apple limit the power draw from Lightning headphones? Maybe. They definitely limit the power a device can draw from the iOS devices. Personally I like the idea of an on board battery in some headphones to enhance other features, and preserve the phone's battery life, as long as it doesn't brick the headphones when they are drained. As for controlling volume, etc. from the phone, I'm not certain that's not a good thing, especially when everything is eventually going wireless and phones aren't likely to be anywhere nearby to control them. However, I do expect a digital interface that allows the headphones to be controlled by the phone's controls once Apple rolls out full support when they remove the Jack. Maybe an app that allows optional custom configuration and integration of the headphones with iOS.

As for what they can support, I sort of see them like iPhones which have steadily added radios and are backwards compatible with almost any wireless protocol in common use. Despite adding this expanded support year after year, the phones cost no more. So the iPhone can add new radios and support without obsoleting an older method. So too will headphones.

I don't really understand your comment about paying for a Lightning cable for use on an Android. If you have an Android, you don't buy a Lightning cable. While some SKUs may be packaged with Lightning cables, I'd imagine others won't be. Or maybe you buy them separately. That's one sure way to get Apple to be more reasonable with their Lightning licenses, when the only difference between the headphones is the cost of the cable.

Interesting point about Apple giving up a huge advantage in sound quality over that offered by Android devices. The reality is, that's enevitable, as people move to wireless. The only immediate defense is Apple needs the room for something important and that trumps their previous advantage in sound over other phones, while finding consumers value other aspects of the platform and ecosystem more.

As for price, that's the ultimate goal, to make great audio products much more affordable. Creating demand for wireless and digital audio products will drive competition, innovation, quality improvement, and lower prices. The limitations of today's commercial products are in no way a guarantee of what we can expect from Apple with the removal of the 3.5mm Jack.
 
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dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
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Again, we're looking at 2 year old technology which has not necessarily been implemented in accordance with Apple's Lightning audio standards, which were published over a year ago. Apple almost always specifies things without explanation, and leaves certain things vague, which turn out to be for reasons Apple eventually exploits later when they enter the market with their own products.

So I wouldn't look at anything about a current product and assume Aple's just going to give us more of the same.

...

Interesting point about Apple giving up a huge advantage in sound quality over that offered by Android devices. The reality is, that's enevitable, as people move to wireless. The only immediate defense is Apple needs the room for something important and that trumps their previous advantage in sound over other phones, while finding consumers value other aspects of the platform and ecosystem more.

As for price, that's the ultimate goal, to make great audio products much more affordable. Creating demand for wireless and digital audio products will drive competition, innovation, quality improvement, and lower prices. The limitations of today's commercial products are in no way a guarantee of what we can expect from Apple with the removal of the 3.5mm Jack.

Personally I am not against Apple removing the headphone jack as long as it is replaced with a comparative standard alternative. BT is not it. It is surprising how people react when you gift them with a good pair of wired headphones that replaces either the stock Apple ones, the cheap ones they brought as a replacement, or basic BT headphones.

For giving up the advantage to Android, if they go jackless, yes, Apple will. BT tech is mediocre for music and designed for calls, remote speaker systems and various other devices. As a true music audio device, it sucks. Then there is the battery component. Lightning is just another non-standard option that will require an outside DAC raising the cost of headphones and limiting selection.

True iPhone users/devotee's/lovers will use an iPhone irrespective of what Apple does with it. For the rest of us, as iPhone users, we use the device but we aren't married to it. Concern is based on the recent history of Apple and their penchant for not adopting standard tech, I see them either just going BT (poor choice), Lightning (worse choice) or something totally off the wall which is compatible with nothing else. Personally I have 8 devices that use headphones. I have a set of BT for workouts and wired for all else. Like many, I will not be looking for a next iPhone if the above concern comes to fruition.
 
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Mac 128

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Personally I am not against Apple removing the headphone jack as long as it is replaced with a comparative standard alternative. BT is not it. It is surprising how people react when you gift them with a good pair of wired headphones that replaces either the stock Apple ones, the cheap ones they brought as a replacement, or basic BT headphones.

For giving up the advantage to Android, if they go backless, yes, Apple will. BT tech is mediocre for music and designed for calls, remote speaker systems and various other devices. As a true music audio device, it sucks. Then there is the battery component. Lightning is just another non-standard option that will require an outside DAC raising the cost of headphones and limiting selection.

True iPhone users/devotee's/lovers will use an iPhone irrespective of what Apple does with it. For the rest of us, as iPhone users, we use the device but we aren't married to it. Concern is based on the recent history of Apple and their penchant for not adopting standard tech, I see them either just going BT (poor choice), Lightning (worse choice) or something totally off the wall which is compatible with nothing else. Personally I have 8 devices that use headphones. I have a set of BT for workouts and wired for all else. Like many, I will not be looking for a next iPhone if the above concern comes to fruition.

If nothing else, I think we can all agree Apple are marketing geniuses. Apple will have to sell the removal of the 3.5mm jack even if justified, and even if Android turns around and drops it a year later -- Apple will still be the first to do it, out of the gate, and will be impacted by doing it. Most anyone commenting on this negatively assumes Apple is just going to necessarily remove the jack, despite the competition, and otherwise leave things exactly as they are. From a marketing and sales standpoint that would be suicide.

What I see happening is Apple including a pair of high quality Lightning headphones in the box. For the average user who is used to Apple's current earbuds, or a cheaper set, these will sound amazing and have the affect of convincing them. And how can Apple not step up their game then? I see it as similar to Apple including the dock with the original iPhone. It cost them extra to do, and they don't do it anymore, but it set the stage for what customers came to expect from using the iPhone. But it doesn't stop there, Apple will have to roll out a set of new standards for wireless audio and power consumption, along with their rumored earbuds, and other wireless products. They will have to deliver a viable alternative, or again suffer the losses.

As for giving the advantage to Android and moving away from the iPhone because of it, again you're assuming Android won't be dropping their headphone jack on their flagships in a year following Apple. And in appraising Apple's decision here, it would be folly if that's not the case. Moreover, you're comparing Apple's alternatives for replacing it only on what you're currently aware of in the commercial workspace, or again assuming a totally incompatible future standard. There's definitely middle ground there. Granted it wouldn't the first time Apple introduced a proprietary standard, but if it's truly revolutionary and better, then who cares? Android still has to remove their headphone jack, and they won't have it. And how could Apple remove the headphone jack and not introduce something better? That would just be foolish on their part. And considering how significant this move is, I fully expect whatever they introduce to be backward compatible with existing standards as well.

And finally, Apple pays less than $18 for all the I/O chips used in the iPhone presently, including the DAC and amp. So while the price may go up initially on headphones and other audio equipment, it won't go up significantly, and over time it will come back down as demand and competition increases. I don't see Lightning as a problem at all, since Android and the rest will likely move to USB-C within a year of Apple doing it, which while seemingly the presumptive standard, is not widely adopted, much less in wide use and thus requiring adapters for many years to come as well. So it doesn't matter whether it's a Lightning adapter or a USB-C one. For existing Apple customers who have already endured one nightmare cable switch, and already have Lightning as a standard, it's a no-brainer. And by the time USB-C does dominate the market and everyone has updated their equipment with native USB-C ports, wireless will likely have become the new standard anyway, not just for audio, but charging and data as well.
 
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Rigby

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2008
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San Jose, CA
I'm honestly not sure if your prior question was answered well. Bluetooth 4.0 cannot transmit higher than about 128kbps.
I don't know where this is coming from, but it is incorrect. A2DP bitrate is up to about 720kbps. The standard SBC codec can use up to 372kbps. AptX uses 352kbps in standard mode. Apple supports AAC @ 256kbps over Bluetooth in the iPhone. The bitrate is not quite high enough for lossless stereo, but the sound quality can be very good, especially when using AptX or AAC.
The Bluetooth specification, under 4.0, has a maximum. There are other Bluetooth formats, but the one that would help (A2DP, up to 768kbps) isn't widely used.
Huh? A2DP is widely used.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
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If nothing else, I think we can all agree Apple are marketing geniuses. Apple will have to sell the removal of the 3.5mm jack even if justified, and even if Android turns around and drops it a year later -- Apple will still be the first to do it, out of the gate, and will be impacted by doing it. Most anyone commenting on this negatively assumes Apple is just going to necessarily remove the jack, despite the competition, and otherwise leave things exactly as they are. From a marketing and sales standpoint that would be suicide.

...

And finally, Apple pays less than $18 for all the I/O chips used in the iPhone presently, including the DAC and amp. So while the price may go up initially on headphones and other audio equipment, it won't go up significantly, and over time it will come back down as demand and competition increases. I don't see Lightning as a problem at all, since Android and the rest will likely move to USB-C within a year of Apple doing it, which while seemingly the presumptive standard, is not widely adopted, much less in wide use and thus requiring adapters for many years to come as well. So it doesn't matter whether it's a Lightning adapter or a USB-C one. For existing Apple customers who have already endured one nightmare cable switch, and already have Lightning as a standard, it's a no-brainer. And by the time USB-C does dominate the market and everyone has updated their equipment with native USB-C ports, wireless will likely have become the new standard anyway, not just for audio, but charging and data as well.

Adapters :confused:
That went over real well last time.
Personally I think you pretty much have the right path. I do think suicide is an option from a cost driver perspective :(...
I hope they don't remove it as it will push me out of the iPhone bucket. Time to wait and see.
 
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AsherN

macrumors 6502a
May 11, 2016
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Every rental car I've had for the last 3 years or so has had Bluetooth. Just had a great Chrysler 300 rental last week that was awesome with my iPhone.


Because I want to pair my phone to some random car, and download my phone book to it, NOT
 

drumcat

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Feb 28, 2008
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I don't know where this is coming from, but it is incorrect. A2DP bitrate is up to about 720kbps. The standard SBC codec can use up to 372kbps. AptX uses 352kbps in standard mode. Apple supports AAC @ 256kbps over Bluetooth in the iPhone. The bitrate is not quite high enough for lossless stereo, but the sound quality can be very good, especially when using AptX or AAC.
Huh? A2DP is widely used.
All of the above is correct for BT 4.5 / A2DP / AptX. You are absolutely right.

Your point about AptX being widely used... Not in consumer level earbuds, sub $200 cans, and post-purchase 3.5mm adapters. That's the point. Yes, the tech exists, and if the cheapest BT devices work on AptX or any A2DP standard, dropping the plug might be less of an issue.

In 4-6 years, this might be appropriate. Right now, A2DP / AptX isn't widespread; BT 4.0 is the de facto. As that changes, THEN a 3.5 wind down might be in order if it was beneficial.

My point is not that this stuff doesn't exist. My point is that if they pull the 3.5 with the iPhone 7 model, in 2016, it will be too early. It will cause many to consider not upgrading or to switch. As an investor, that hurts me directly and the move seems extremely premature. Signal the coming change, start pushing "Apple Bluetooth Audio Compliance" or some crap to get OEMs to get A2DP into products, and then remove it. That's if you really have a good reason at that point.

For all of us with multiple, $100+ headphones and earbuds, we will pause before upgrading. I hope the 6S+ is not Peak iPhone.
 
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Rigby

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All of the above is correct for BT 4.5 / A2DP / AptX. You are absolutely right.

Your point about AptX being widely used... Not in consumer level earbuds, sub $200 cans, and post-purchase 3.5mm adapters. That's the point. Yes, the tech exists, and if the cheapest BT devices work on AptX or any A2DP standard, dropping the plug might be less of an issue.
I have no idea what you are talking about. There are many cheap BT headphones with AptX support. Here's the first result I got when searching for "Bluetooth headphones AptX" on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Aukey-EP-B4-Bluetooth-Headphones-Smartphones/dp/B014HCTOY4/
 

drumcat

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I have no idea what you are talking about. There are many cheap BT headphones with AptX support. Here's the first result I got when searching for "Bluetooth headphones AptX" on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Aukey-EP-B4-Bluetooth-Headphones-Smartphones/dp/B014HCTOY4/

I guess I'm wrong. Those look pretty new.

I would still suggest that based on the "other" listings below, this is a very new level. Maybe they're all going that way, but it reinforces my point. It's GOOD that they are changing, but these appear to be the exception, not the rule. It reinforces the idea that removing the 3.5mm plug is a bad idea in 2016.
 

Rigby

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I guess I'm wrong. Those look pretty new.

I would still suggest that based on the "other" listings below, this is a very new level. Maybe they're all going that way, but it reinforces my point. It's GOOD that they are changing, but these appear to be the exception, not the rule. It reinforces the idea that removing the 3.5mm plug is a bad idea in 2016.
Cheap BT headphones with AptX have been available since at least 2014.
 

martin.busek

macrumors newbie
Jun 10, 2015
10
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Can you find me a pair of bluetooth earbuds that sound better or just as good as corded ?


Yes, I have tried many of them and at the moment I own one pair of over ear BT headphones and 4 pair of in ear BT headphones. The over ear are Audio Technica WS99BT. They are just amazing and I use them every day for over a year. I just changed the ear pads to get more comfort when I wear them longer than 2 hours. Because the inner circle on the original ear pads is perfect circle around 38mm I think, which is a bit small for most of the ears to fit in. I tried many ear pads and only after like 6 order I found perfect ones, which are the same size as the original ones but bigger inside, with oval shaped hole and my ears fits in perfectly now. And they sound even better. I have tried many other over ear headphones in the shops but I think the Audio Technicas are simply the best. And they support both, AAC and AptX codecs, which is great too.
In ear headsets - I have tried few cheap ones and one pair of pricier ones (jaybird X2). Jaybirds are not bad but there is still something missing... It's just not right. They cost around 150 USD and there is few other headsets for 20 USD which are same or even better, like the pair of QCY QY5S, which is some unknown brand. I bought them on Aliexpress for like 17 EUR and they sound really good. Sometimes I feel like they sound better than Jaybirds, which really hurts, because of the price I paid for them :).
 

drumcat

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So, I'll just go ahead and ask... are there any known Bluetooth adapters for passive earphones that offers either AAC or AptX? I'm very interested to know this...
 

Rigby

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2008
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So, I'll just go ahead and ask... are there any known Bluetooth adapters for passive earphones that offers either AAC or AptX? I'm very interested to know this...
You could use something like this in receiver mode:

http://www.amazon.com/Latency-Wireless-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B01B4W40VC

Here's one that apparently supports AAC (but no AptX):

http://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Transmitter-Zio-Switchable-Entertainment/dp/B0126WBDV4

This one supports both:

http://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-receiver-amplifier-class1-black/dp/B00JUGSUQG/
 
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sshambles

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kyykesko

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Doesn't really matter what a $800 lightning headphone set sounds like. Nobody in their right mind would buy one you can only use with a single device. Or maybe those same people only own their iPhone 7. Good luck.

I didn't find the test - unless it's that video I can't be arsed to watch. Browsing through an actual article is so much faster.

Doesn't matter what they do. A dongle isn't an option and I'm not going to buy a phone that doesn't connect to 80% of my devices. Not that it sounds like iPhone 7 would be worth a buy to begin with.
[doublepost=1463068169][/doublepost]
As someone who listens to music at work with headphones while charging...no thanks.

Same here. My 6+ starts to complain about low battery latest at 2pm if I don't keep charging it every chance I get. There's no way I'd be able to listen to anything if I wasn't able to charge the phone, too.
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What I see happening is Apple including a pair of high quality Lightning headphones in the box. For the average user who is used to Apple's current earbuds, or a cheaper set, these will sound amazing and have the affect of convincing them.

Apple? High quality headphones? Give me a break. If anything they'll just add another mediocre set that feels horrible in your ears but you don't notice it because it sounds even worse. And it only works with your phone so you get to go buy better headphones anyway for anything else. But oops, you can't use them with your phone and all of a sudden your new Apple "High quality" headphones don't sound so high quality anymore.

No matter what they did the only reasonable replacement for the 3,5mm would be USB-C, not some proprietary junk port nobody else ever uses. And no, I wouldn't buy iPhone with only USB-C either.

Killing 3,5mm at this point means it hurts most of the users. You end up with loads of headphones people can no longer use with their phones, only with everything else. And you have lots of useless pieces of plastic with Apple logo nobody wants to use - but is forced to because it's the only way to get any sound out of your phone. Oh wait, but there may be dual speakers. Mind blown!
 
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Mac 128

macrumors 603
Apr 16, 2015
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Doesn't really matter what a $800 lightning headphone set sounds like. Nobody in their right mind would buy one you can only use with a single device. Or maybe those same people only own their iPhone 7. Good luck.

I agree, why would anybody buy an $800 headphones that can be used with a single device (assuming they have some adapter-phobia)? Fortunately, Headphones will come with single combined digital/analogue ports that will accommodate any cable the adapter-adverse want to attach -- USB-C, Lightning, 3.5mm, 1/4, etc. This will be true for most wireless headphones as well, so even the battery running out won't be a problem.

Doesn't matter what they do. A dongle isn't an option and I'm not going to buy a phone that doesn't connect to 80% of my devices. Not that it sounds like iPhone 7 would be worth a buy to begin with.

Well, then you will probably have to do without a new flagship phone in a couple of years. Apple isn't doing this to alienate customers and drive down sales, they're doing it because they need the room for enhancements and new features -- and if Apple does, so does everybody else. The competition will all begin to drop it on at least their flagship phones within a year of Apple doing it. That's why Intel is actively marketing USB-C audio. That, or it's a massive conspiracy. Which makes more sense?

Same here. My 6+ starts to complain about low battery latest at 2pm if I don't keep charging it every chance I get. There's no way I'd be able to listen to anything if I wasn't able to charge the phone, too.

This has to be the single dumbest meme circulating ... of course there will be a way to charge your phone while listening to music on your headphones. At a minimum, the Lightning cable included with the iPhone will have a passthrough connector. Easiest problem ever solved, and to think they came up with it about the same time electricity was invented.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
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drumcat

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Feb 28, 2008
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Well, I think it's time I jump of this thread. However, it has been unusually enlightening. (+1 Rigby)

Here are the conclusions I've personally drawn:

- Bluetooth has a newer standard that is becoming more widely available (A2DP).
- A2DP allows both AptX and AAC passthrough, and those codecs at that bandwidth will sound very transparent (read: great)
- iPhone 6S will transmit AAC via A2DP right meow.
- Several higher-end cans have successful implementations of A2DP, a few have crappy ones.
- Some newer earbud products are starting to include AptX, though none seem to be established IEM brands thus far
- Vast majority of consumers know how BT 4.0 sounds; most ok with it, but those that aren't don't know much about A2DP
- Battery powered adapters for A2DP in some forms are available today, though no word on noise floor / quality objectively

Out of all of this, I personally:

- Still think that removing the 3.5mm from the iPhone 7 is too early
- I will be trying an adapter again - my last attempt was a 4.0 and sounded awful, so now I know what to avoid

Should be interesting...
 
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