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basesloaded190

macrumors 68030
Oct 16, 2007
2,693
5
Wisconsin
Um, as a father of four that is far from rich, do I now need to go buy four iPads and purchase every textbook?

There will be a large divide between the "haves" and the "have nots" now when it comes to education.

No you don't. No where in Apple's presentation did they say that parents will now have to buy ipads for all their kids?
 

mrzeigler

macrumors regular
Oct 15, 2005
159
3
Pittsburgh
Actually, a standard iPad that could be put into 'kiosk mode' with limited functionality would allow for the device to be multi-purposed, and more valuable to the institution.

Walk into an Apple store...iPad's and iOS are clearly in some sort of kiosk mode for the public to play with. I'm sure it'd be a small step to offer it to educators.

Edit: Oops I quoted the wrong post. I was replying to the father who asked if he'd have to buy etextbooks along with an iPad.

Do you already buy textbooks for your children? If so, then you probably would.

If the district buys the textbooks (as most do), I would expect it — when it comes time to replace print texts with digital — would purchase enough licenses for a classroom and those versions would be made available to the iPads of the students in that class. At the end of the year — as with borrowing ebooks from a library — the textbook would uninstall from the student iPad and the district would be able to reassign it to another student.
 

Pilgrim1099

Suspended
Apr 30, 2008
1,109
602
From the Midwest to the Northeast
Ah, the Guggenheim.

Have you seen the new addition to the Guggenheim?

Yep. I did that.

And it didn't take very long either.

LTD, oh wait, let me take that back.

Limited, Is that so? (Yes, LTD means Limited) If you are who you say you claim to be, you should reveal your credentials to the moderators and everyone here to take you seriously. But if you don't, then you won't be.

Talking such bravado while impersonating and taking credit for something you did'nt do can have consequences. If you are pretending to take credit for work you did'nt do, you can get banned or suspended by the moderators.

I don't claim to be a big shot but I'm also a graphic designer/illustrator, and do not have respect for those who 'pretend' to be something they're not.

And if it did'nt take you so long to design the addition, how did you manage to do it? Which addition of the museum were you involved in? Name it. What tools did you use? Who contracted you within the Guggenheim or the contracted firm that probably 'subcontracted' you? And where did you major architecture at?

Oh and since you're from Canada, you can't be Frank Gehry who's now living in LA (apparently).

Sayonara.
 

wovel

macrumors 68000
Mar 15, 2010
1,839
161
America(s)!
I am really excited about this. Re-inventing the textbook and how teachers can deliver course outlines and content to their students is amazing. And it is showing that Apple is not forgetting about one of it's core markets education. The other core market was creative professionals.

The Pros of this are:

Updatable textbooks, can't update the printed page.
Paperless
Can buy them online, don't have to travel to the bookstore
Better content. Can't have moving images and videos etc in a paper book
Don't have to wait for a print run and shipping to the book stores. When the book is published it can be immediately be pushed to the App Store for people to purchase.

The iTunes U thing is good so you can have all your course information in one place. It's not as revolutionary as the textbook thing. But it is a paperless system. And it puts everything at your fingertips in one spot so a plus there.

The Cons of this are:

Handwriting skills will suffer. This is big. A lot of people these days can get fast typing speeds with no mistakes but their hand writing is so messy you can't read it. Yes in a truly paperless society handwriting will be a thing of the past for many people. But I think today we still need it.

I do think handwriting is a dying art. There is less and less call for it in the modern world. Soon enough every chart, book, letter, resume, assignment, etc etc will all be done/seen on a screen and sent electronically to others. Thus eliminating the need for handwriting.

It'll be a sad day when handwriting dies. And it will die one day. Apple is sowing the seeds for it's destruction today. And slowly decade by decade you'll be seeing it less and less. Till one day boom it's gone.

Another bad thing is for all this you need an iPad. Hopefully you can access all of this content on your Mac too. But there was no talk about that. So you'll need an iOS device (or hopefully maybe a Mac) to use all of this new content. It seems that the cost of an iPad will be added into any study you want to do. And what if the requirements for your textbooks want the new iPad? You have to mid course fork out for another newer model iPad.

That's 2 issues Apple need to consider.
Handwriting.
Do you need the latest version of iOS devices always for this?

Once those 2 issues are sorted then I say go for this as it's amazing.

I think with the upcoming iPad announcement, we will see some relief from the cost of an iPad perspective. At the very least, I would expect the ipad2 to stay in production as the lower cost model. I would not be surprised to see an even lower cost model aimed at the K-12 market.
 

5883662

Cancelled
Jan 20, 2010
232
178
And this does worry me about ebooks in general out in the 'real world.' It's a concern, I just don't think it's a concern in this particular field.

I can't think of a single high school textbook I wish I still had. I just don't see it as being a problem for textbooks which are meant to be used for a year and then given back. For an individual, there is no 'long term' when it comes to middle school or high school books.

I suppose I was talking about University here - missing the point. I agree with middle/high school textbooks such as maths, languages, history etc... but would find it hard to be able to work digitally and taking notes. Remember all the doodles we drew on each page? ;-)
 

AppleInLVX

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2010
1,239
744
I guess this announcement wasn't for me. I don't get how it'll work. The whole thing hinges on a totally Apple-centric model, requiring Macs to make content and iPads to consume it. By their own stats less than a half year ago, Apple only has about 1/4 of the market. Unless I'm not appreciating how supersaturated the education sector is with Apple gear, I can't see how there's enough tech around to do this. Cool as iPads are, this is a HUGE expense to work within a very specific milieu. I don't see how this can work if it needs the purchase of Mac-centric systems for all of education and the purchase of an iPad for every student. Apple would rule the world if it happened, but I can't see that.

Am I wrong here? Is there something I don't get?
 

gramirez2012

macrumors 6502a
Jun 21, 2010
663
12
Chicago, USA
What about getting students iPads more easily? It's like the only students who can afford them are those who are in private schools. The Bord of Ed. isn't going to fund iPads for every public school student.

Many schools ARE providing iPads or laptops for every student, including public schools.
 

wovel

macrumors 68000
Mar 15, 2010
1,839
161
America(s)!
LTD, oh wait, let me take that back.

Limited, Is that so? (Yes, LTD means Limited) If you are who you say you claim to be, you should reveal your credentials to the moderators and everyone here to take you seriously. But if you don't, then you won't be.

Talking such bravado while impersonating and taking credit for something you did'nt do can have consequences. If you are pretending to take credit for work you did'nt do, you can get banned or suspended by the moderators.

I don't claim to be a big shot but I'm also a graphic designer/illustrator, and do not have respect for those who 'pretend' to be something they're not.

And if it did'nt take you so long to design the addition, how did you manage to do it? Which addition of the museum were you involved in? Name it. What tools did you use? Who contracted you within the Guggenheim or the contracted firm that probably 'subcontracted' you? And where did you major architecture at?

Oh and since you're from Canada, you can't be Frank Gehry who's now living in LA (apparently).

Sayonara.

He was making a joke, boy did it go way over your head.

Edit: Read through this link, and then you can post your apology. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0697763/quotes
 

drober30

macrumors 6502a
Jul 5, 2007
840
97
When you talk about cost....

This iPad/iBooks will, without a doubt, be less expensive than traditional textbooks.

We pay thousands in shipping charges for book throughout our district. Books are heavy and have all the other downsides already mentioned in the presentation.

As a high school teacher, I really hate it when I have to order ten or twenty replacement books to replace lost/damaged books and the replacements are a different version number. Not necessary a different "edition" but version so things do get moved around and when my assignment states to look on page 36, that no longer holds true for the newer replacement books.

With digital, all students books would be updated and I can change/correct my assignment once.
 

PhoneI

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2008
1,629
619
No you don't. No where in Apple's presentation did they say that parents will now have to buy ipads for all their kids?

So I can send my kids to class and have them be the only kids still using an actual book because I can't afford an iPad. You don't see a problem with this?
 

ericinboston

macrumors 68020
Jan 13, 2008
2,005
476
Did you live on/near campus or commute?

If you can go back to your dorm or apartment between classes, book weight isn't a big issue.

If you catch a bus or share a ride or even have a car, you're far more likely to have a bookbag filled with all the books you need for the day ... and if you attend an urban college, as I did, you probably park in the cheapest parking spot, which is the farthest from your classes, so you're not going back and forth to your car during the day to pick up/drop off books.

1)I lived on campus all 4 years...would have liked to live off campus but the city crime was crazy...and I was a dj and computer guy...that's the jackpot for thieves.

2)I hear you and others about book weight. And I'm sure there's a percentage of the population that have to carry a lot of books each day. But what is it with all this complaining? I sound like my grandfather about walking uphill both ways to school barefoot in 3 feet of snow. :)

Seriously...what is with all this complaining about weight? It's as if every high school kid and college kid have to carry 11 books for the entire day on their back. It's NOT. It's carrying (regardless of weight) books from class A to class B and at some point to your bus/car/dorm. That's it. You plop your bag down on the floor once you get to the class!!! So you walk 5 minutes with 10, 20, or 30 pounds of books in your backpack/bag! What a bunch of bleeping whiners!

Again, I understand there are some extreme examples of extremely heavy bags. But I've never heard that to be anywhere near the norm. Unless you're a girl...who complains about everything in life being too heavy. Call me sexist, if you will.
 

stordoff

macrumors regular
Aug 24, 2009
132
0
I went to college for 4 years...majored in Computer Science with Business Applications. I had lots of computer books, science, and math. Yes, each was well over 300 pages long. Yes, some were heavy...but NONE were some kind of 1200 page monster.

In college, I would attend a few classes each day (usually 3-4) and most had at least 1 hour or more between classes...so I did not need to carry around all 3-4 books every day.

I'm studying law, and the books for each class are 700-1100 pages long. I often have three classes in a day, and don't have any time between them (10 minute break or so). Carrying the books around is really annoying.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
At the end of the day - a lot of what was presented was sizzle.

Here's the recap.

Apple has created an ebook creation tool which is better than what they had before and probably better than previously existed elsewhere

Apple has the major book publishers interested in this format and will be providing content (eventually).

That's pretty much it. Not to downplay it - but I will - it's only revolutionary if it gets widely adopted and there IS that content.

One or two books at one or two grade levels isn't going to do much.

Content is king. So until there is that content - this is just brewing.
 

Hastings101

macrumors 68020
Jun 22, 2010
2,341
1,463
K
Of course, none of this matters until schools actually have iPads available for every student in every classroom... which is unlikely to happen in anything but the wealthiest school districts for a few years, especially with the cuts in public education spending thanks to recent economic trouble.

Maybe Apple has thought up a way around that though.
 

Dgail

macrumors regular
Mar 10, 2011
105
1
Mt. Hood to Puget Sound
iBook

I find it interesting that the iBook app is considered inferior to other eBook readers. I do not have experience with the physical Kindle or Nooks, but have the Kindle on my iPad.

I find that that I actually prefer the iBook reader to the Kindle for iPad (was this intentional?) due to its ability to change fonts, font size and the "sepia" background as a means to lessen the effects of shiny glass glare. The Kindle for iPad seems to me to be a large PDF of what I am reading and does seem to be inflexible.

Regarding the cost of textbooks, if all Apple is charging ($14.99), that is a steal compared to what you would have to pay for a paper copy. Of course I am old enough to remember when schools provided loaned textbooks (and at the time California was known to have the best education system in the country). Having done 2 graduate degrees in the early 80s and 99-02, the cost of textbooks (particularly science which update yearly) was and remains outrageous.
 

Soccer5se

macrumors member
Oct 21, 2011
91
1
South Korea
The Free textbook on the store is awesome, however, it's almost a 1GB. I guess they will have to make the ipad HD a little bigger in the future. Or give us more room in the cloud.
 

milo

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2003
6,891
523
What don't you people get? if a school gets iPads, they can simply buy one copy of a textbook for $15 and they can get 40 ipads, they can apck moer students to a teacher and they can actually save money.

But is that really the case? Typically copyright law wouldn't necessarily allow that and I can't imagine the publishers agreeing to a system that would be OK with that. I assume the license agreement specifies buying one copy per student and they'd go after violators.

More likely the savings is that physical textbooks may cost $50 and as enough textbooks are used it ends up cheaper that way in the long run.


Apple is poised here. They could knock iPad's down to $200 for educational institutions to buy and make it up on the backend through their cut of textbook sales.

It's rumored that the iPad 2 will still be sold at a lower price when iPad 3 ships, which would be a good fit for this. At the time of that announcement they could announce even lower educational pricing as well.


No iBooks for mac, what an absolute STINKER.

Yep, the iPad stuff is cool but no access on a computer will be a deal breaker for many people. I'm still not likely to use something I can't read on my mac (and Kindle material can be read on pretty much any platform).
 
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