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Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
2
Beck446 said:
If the 14" is updated to 1.5 (technically, iBooks could go up to 1.42, but won't b/c the update wouldn't be enough for Apple to justify the logistic costs of an upgrade in terms of increased sales) it would be closer to the PB in power than it has EVER been in the history of Mac! It's not gonna happen.

Actually iBooks at one time had a higher-clocked chip than the low-end PowerBooks. The high end iBooks vs. low end PowerBook. a -% difference....

Beck446 said:
Powerbook: Very overpriced and a terrible buy right now. But these things are going to positively scream when they get the Freescale dual core chip at WWDC. The video card should be updated then too. I can't wait!
PowerBooks are still being bought by a number of people. They are not overpriced compared to other laptops. The top reasons? Battery life, instant-sleep and instant-awake, built-in 802.11g, built-in BlueTooth.


End result: If you need a Mac then buy one unless it is 1 week before an Expo or something. And don't buy on a Monday. Come Tuesday you will be upset.
 

pianojoe

macrumors 6502
Jul 5, 2001
461
26
N 49.50121 E008.54558
After owning four different iBooks I finally switched to PowerBooks. My current PB is the 1.33GHz G4 12", and I already hear everybody yelling "You should've gotten an iBook and saved the money!"

Now, I have hands-on experience with recent iBooks and PowerBooks (in a Pro Audio environment as well as everyday tasks like NeoOfficeJ), and I can safely claim that PowerBooks perform much better than iBooks of equal processor speed.

Then there's design, Bluetooth, bigger HD, better keyboard, less weight, less fan noise...

I'd never go back. And, yes, I love the 12" form factor.
 

JRM PowerPod

macrumors 6502
Mar 7, 2005
446
0
Outback Australia
Beck446 said:
Whoa! Fundamental misunderstanding here. I'm not comparing Macs to PCs at all. I'm comparing Macs present to Macs past and Macs future. I don't care if a Gateway model is going to lose half it's resale value in a year b/c I have no intention of buying a Gateway. I like Mac OSX.

What I do care about is whether a PB bought today will lose a huge chunk of value when major hardware upgrades are made across the line w/in the next 6 months.

And, on a side note, once the PBs move to another chip, there won't be a huge price increase. If you think the PBs are going back to costing $3500, you are deluding yourself in a weak attempt to justify a recent PB purchase.

Who buys a PowerBook with the intention of selling it in 6 months? Of course you are going to lose money, no matter what you buy. But with your attitude that doesn't matter because you would be too scared to buy anything due to the fact things get upgraded.

And who thinks that PB's are going to cost $3500 anyway. You're the one who's deluded thinking it is safer not to buy mac stuff because it will be upgraded eventually.

LOL from the land of the kangaroo
 

Beck446

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 16, 2003
132
0
JRM PowerPod said:
Who buys a PowerBook with the intention of selling it in 6 months? Of course you are going to lose money, no matter what you buy. But with your attitude that doesn't matter because you would be too scared to buy anything due to the fact things get upgraded.

And who thinks that PB's are going to cost $3500 anyway. You're the one who's deluded thinking it is safer not to buy mac stuff because it will be upgraded eventually.

LOL from the land of the kangaroo


You guys are amazing. Don't think I didn't notice the Rev D powerbook you've listed in your signiature...

Look, I didn't say I was going thinking of buying a PB and selling it in 6 months. I have made the simple observation that if you can predict a larger-than-normal dropoff in market price of an Apple laptop, and you can predict that this dropoff will happen w/in 6 months, then your best option, as long as you can wait, is to:
A. Wait and buy the current model once the resale price drops
B. Buy a new one when the PB's get new chips, depending on your needs.

Every Mac is eventually updated, but if you can predict when the huge update is going to happen, why buy right before that?

But who knows, maybe I'd say the same thing if I'd just bought a PB :rolleyes:

The smart money is on the sidelines right now
 

chaosbunny

macrumors 68020
Apart from the hardware (which I think doesn't "suck"), to me the "it looks good" factor is a rather important one. Being a freelance designer I spend 8 - 10 hours a day in front of my machine, + 2 or more with games or something. I think sitting so much time in front of/looking at a beautiful silver stylish computer is more fun than spending it in front of an ugly black plastic piece...
 

nickane

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2005
346
2
Macs are indeed in a dire state right now but this is mainly hinged upon the move to 64-bit, so sure, things aren't great but by the end of this year (by which time even the mini/emac will have a g5, presumably), apple's market share could start doing big things. I was of the mind that the pbs (and maybe even, as was alleged by digitimes, the ibooks at the same time) would go g5 upon the release of tiger, but if that's really happening in april, i guess not. Here is the mac line as I see it:

PMs - these need an upgrade soon, but until ibm brings out a new processor, what with? Its been said before, but WWDC at the latest, surely? Until then, of course, PMs look increasingly shaky. But so what if the imac gets too close? U can't do anything to it. But why would I wanna buy a top-of-the-line mac only to have to upgrade almost every component to justify having bought the model over an imac.

Imacs - these are fine, other than a few minor hitches, most of which will hopefully be resolved with the next rev. (april 1st is dubious for obvious reasons, but as this has done so well and there's nothing else they can update between now and june other than emacs, they probably will), which TS is probably overpessimistic about as a gpu upgrade seems certain to me. AE/BT etc may become standard as with the laptops, those who suggest otherwise forget that imacs aren't conventional desktops and that half the draw is the lack of wiring. Mine shipped on thursday so there's nothing I can do about any of that crap now, but whatever, it'll run tiger, so i'm happy.

As for PBs/IBs: No matter what testbench scores say, G4s will struggle with tiger, its a fact. Say what u like about ppl who always want the latest and greatest, right now apple is selling laptops that will struggle with this year's OS, and that is just not cricket. PBs will have something new by WWDC, maybe sooner. That rev. D was clearly just an attempt to make the line more competitive by lowering the price and offering special features as standard that were optional before, and that we can assume will be standard on the g5s/dual cores (does anyone know how well a dual core would run tiger?). Ibooks will get g5 as soon as possible, a simultaneous release is likely but only if there are enough processors and they can offer a pb that is significantly faster than the ib. I have been told unequivocally by many ppl that a g5 cannot be put into a laptop, but I'm under the impression that IBM came up with a mobile variation on it ages ago, which'll be ready pretty soon.

Emac: Back in the fray, apparently. And why not? CRT may not fit in with steve's big plan but these fill an important gap in the edu market that minis could never replace. Who knows, they could even squeeze an lcd in but i don't see how with such thin profit margins. Emacs need g5s by the end of the year and will probably get them a few months after the ibooks do.

Minis: A crucial element in Apple's bid for market share, I'd expect these to fare similarly to the emacs. It will be interesting to see which of these gets a new chip first, or if they will be updated together and treated as part of the same product tier.

Now that the ipod and desktop lines have 3 tiers, ie mini/imac/pm and shuffle/mini/photo, maybe Jobs will do the same to laptops, bringing out a sub-notebook or ebook (they'll probably come up with something better than that) designed for wireless browsing and basic operations on the go. Unlikely, but Jobs loves this kind of marketing logic.

In short, I agree with beck446, in that the present is bleak, but the future looks promising. Apple's fluffed it many times before but what with the g5, the acclaim heaped upon panther, all the ipod convertites, more budget options becoming available and (most importantly) the shift in role occupied by the home computer towards media centre, I'd say apple are poised to take a huge chunk out of the pc market, its just that their computers have never been so lacking in futureproofing. Of course, knowing apple, no sooner will they have resolved this mess then they'll have the G6 in PMs too early and its architecture will be as different to the g5 as it was to the g4 and everyone'll run scared back to wintel.

But as my allegedly-soon-to-be-outdated imac wings its way to me, I have to wonder how accurate my predictions truly are.
 

CaptainCaveMann

macrumors 68000
Oct 5, 2004
1,518
0
nickane said:
I have been told unequivocally by many ppl that a g5 cannot be put into a laptop, but I'm under the impression that IBM came up with a mobile variation on it ages ago, which'll be ready pretty soon.
I see your still dreaming. :rolleyes:
 
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