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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
5,548
6,412
Seattle
Apple's "AI" path has been terrible for many years. I remember concluding (and maybe posting here or elsewhere) that Apple's single biggest vulnerability is its reliance on Siri to expand its UI to take advantage of all kinds of new interface processing capabilities. Siri was a bandaid or a stopgap that was probably a mistake to begin with, but reliance on it for more than a year or two when they should have been working on a parallel path to replace it from the beginning was and is a huge barrier for them. Siri is terrible in all of its implementations, on the iPhone, HomePod and CarPlay. I basically never use it, but always wish I could. I just bought a new Sony TV, which has Google TV built in. I bought an Apple TV 4K with it. I told my wife I plan to return the Apple TV as I move toward Google for my Home "AI" setup. Sad, because I do not trust Google, at all, with my privacy. But it is years ahead of Apple in terms of ease of use for its "smart" technology. I still do not understand why Apple didn't see this 10 years ago, and still doesn't seem to see it now. Maybe its the "emperor has no clothes" syndrome, or like the guy who gives a weird, stupid response on Family Feud, but the family says, "yeah, great answer, great answer" and claps for him. Apple's C suite is saying,"Siri is our future, we can make it better, it will catch up, just give it more resources...." Dumb, and sad.
Yes, Siri seems to have been a dead end that turned out to be nearly impossible to modify and that Apple didn’t bother replacing for too long. It sounds like that is going to change.

Siri is not the only thing Apple has been doing with AI. They have been doing what they call machine learning for years, which is a functional AI focuses on specific features. Last year they did an experiment with the typing suggestions by using a transformer AI to learn your typing patterns. A transformer is what an LLM is but on a smaller scale.

I imagine an arrangement where Siri has a local LLM that listens to your requests (or via typing) and interprets the intent, even asking clarifying questions. Once it knows that you want, it would check its available functions in the OS or apps or web and bring those together to satisfy your requests. They could expand on the intents frameworks that expose app functionality to Shortcuts to provide a toolbox for the local AI. A lot of apps will have their own machine-learning-style AI functions, as well that could be called by a Siri. For some things, it will make more sense to pass the request on to a server-based AI like Gemini, OpenAI, or Baidu. This whole idea of the local AI that connects to other systems for different functions is similar to the Large Action Model envisioned by those crazy kids that made the Robot R1.

I’m really interested in where this could go.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
5,548
6,412
Seattle
I have alot of menu items and I have had menu items hidden under that notch.

It should simply not be there and simply have a thin bezel.

If the Mac had Face ID, then maybe I could understand having a notch. But without Face ID, the notch is ridiculous.

Thin bezels > Notch.
Haven’t you fixed that problem, yet?

I had too many menu items to fit on the menubar well before we got our first notch. That’s why I got Bartender and it does an excellent job of managing those pesky little icons. I have most of them pushed off to a hidden panel that only appears when I want them. Much better. When I got a laptop with a notch, there was not problem with menubar icons because I had already installed Bartender.
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
5,548
6,412
Seattle
YES. I'd MUCH rather they bring the bezel back. Or just get rid of the stupid cam entirely, that would be fine too. It's not like I don't have a sticker permanently over the cam anyway.

Webcams are a bug, not a feature.
then just use one of the utilities or manually select one of the resolutions that is 16:10 and make your whole screen fit below the notch. Then you can pretend it is just a big bezel like you want. then you can put a post it on the camera and you‘re all set. 😉

If I thought that webcams were a bug I’d never be able to join a meeting and couldn’t do my job.
 
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krakenrelease

macrumors regular
Dec 3, 2020
109
102
I was planning on getting an M3 ultra for AI / ML tinkering, bring on the M4! Not sure if that is overkill as I'm not interested in LLM's. That seems the hot ticket nowadays. The 512GB unified memory is UNHEARD of. Some interesting times we are in thats for sure.
 

caioferrari

macrumors member
Oct 14, 2012
57
41
I get your point and I get his speculation. I purchased Ultra only to find that the M++ MAX that followed not so longer after was pretty competitive. Lesson learned.

On the other hand, do as he speculated- that is, roll out Ultra first- and it will be a good while before MAX & PRO follow and longer still until base arrives. Ultra will be "king of the chips" until the next Ultra is released... unlike now, where it is king of Silicon only until next MAX... which has been < 6 months later so far. Ultra buyer then probably sees the superiority for maybe 3 months before the proposition to wait for the next MAX likely < 3 months away take over. If so, 3 months is a short window as King of the hill in the most expensive Mac.

If I was re-buying my ULTRA Mac, I would have purchased MAX instead... and won't buy ULTRA again unless it is meaningfully superior to the rest of the lineup... including the MAX that follows.

So we'll see.

The same problem applies to a buyer who pick an upgraded RAM or SSD thinking on future.
Apple is putting some specific cores on chip that makes new processors much faster than its predecessors even without tons of RAM.

I think that we are going to see a NPU race.
 

caioferrari

macrumors member
Oct 14, 2012
57
41
If NPU is going to be the next big sales argument, it’s not impossible to see, Max and pro chips with more NPU cores than the regular chip, just like already happens with CPU and GPU.
 

Torty

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2013
979
756
If NPU is going to be the next big sales argument, it’s not impossible to see, Max and pro chips with more NPU cores than the regular chip, just like already happens with CPU and GPU.
Maybe but iPhone is the flagship and the bread and butter product for apple. So their "killer AI features" have to work with iPhone on iOS.
 

logikzsan

macrumors newbie
Mar 4, 2024
5
0
Do you guys think it would be a mistake to buy right now an M3 Pro Max with 15% discount or it would be smarter to wait for the fall and the release of this new M4?
Thanks.
 

Le0M

macrumors 6502a
Aug 13, 2020
850
1,200
I hope we still get the full fat AI experience on M2 Max era chips. This was a big purchase for me, I don't want to upgrade again for as long as possible.
I think most new AI features that will be introduced in June will work for all M chips. Only the most demanding ones will be limited to the top-notch processors.
 
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logikzsan

macrumors newbie
Mar 4, 2024
5
0
I think most new AI features that will be introduced in June will work for all M chips. Only the most demanding ones will be limited to the top-notch processors.
So, maybe this can answer my question in a certain way 😅
 

Torty

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2013
979
756
So we will see a lot of development in AI capabilities of CPUs. Maybe it makes sense to get
I think most new AI features that will be introduced in June will work for all M chips. Only the most demanding ones will be limited to the top-notch processors.
One year later the same will happen when we will see the M5. Maybe it’s a good idea to get a second HW upgradable system (windows? Linux?) to keep pace with all the AI development.
And keep the existing apple w/o the latest and greatest AI features. Maybe it’s something most don’t really need.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,567
11,310
Your point? Less than 1% of people who post on these forums need 128GB much less 512GB. The other 99% make up the 8GB-96GB user base. My M2 13” MBP has 24GB of DRAM and my 2019 iMac has 64GB and I sure don’t feel as though I’m being deprived. Heck, my 8GB M1 13” MBP still works fine 90% of the time, almost to the point that I wonder why I bought the 24GB M2 other than it was $800 off at Best Buy and I love a great deal.

Ehh. 8 feels increasingly stingy, especially on a $1,599 model. They should probably go to 12 now.
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 601
Jul 14, 2015
4,021
5,380
East Coast, United States
I thought they were going to up the base unified memory with the M3, but the upgrade seems to always go one iteration past when they should do it, before someone at Apple finally realizes that they’re just doing it out of spite.

This happened with Apple clinging to the base 16GB of storage on the iPhone.
 
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Torty

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2013
979
756
I thought they were going to up the base unified memory with the M3, but the upgrade seems to always go one iteration past when they should do it, before someone at Apple finally realizes that they’re just doing it out of spite.

This happened with Apple clinging to the base 16GB of storage on the iPhone.
Apple sells millions of devices. I think it's the best thing THEY can do, selling HW as cheap as possible and people have the possibility to get a better configuration and pay good money for it which is good for their margin.
 

seek3r

macrumors 68020
Aug 16, 2010
2,260
3,213
YES. I'd MUCH rather they bring the bezel back. Or just get rid of the stupid cam entirely, that would be fine too. It's not like I don't have a sticker permanently over the cam anyway.

Webcams are a bug, not a feature.
Pretty much anyone who uses their mac for work on a team uses a webcam daily - including me. Do you think that camera is just for selfies or something?
 

Johnstrass2

macrumors member
Mar 30, 2023
40
48
Will the next MacBook Pro get a redesign it’s had 3 generations with the same look
One word : touchscreen

Of course, the industrial cog who is currently running Apple has made it clear that he doesn’t want to touchscreen MacBook because people are still willing to buy an extra iPad for that…
 
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caioferrari

macrumors member
Oct 14, 2012
57
41
Do you guys think it would be a mistake to buy right now an M3 Pro Max with 15% discount or it would be smarter to wait for the fall and the release of this new M4?
Thanks.
When the M3 was in development, there was widespread anticipation for the new 3nm chips, with expectations of significant performance enhancements. However, upon its release, the improvements were only marginal.

Considering the AI capabilities of the latest processors, it's worth noting that the M series has had neural cores since the M1. Surprisingly, there hasn't been much discussion about performance boosts in NPU cores until now. The M3 showed a 15% increase in NPU speed compared to the M2, indicating progress, but still falling short.

The iPhone 15 Pro boasts an NPU nearly twice as fast as the M3, highlighting the potential for further advancement.

I believe that AI will become the primary selling point in the future, with companies focusing on NPU performance over CPU or GPU. Benchmarks will likely emphasize the speed at which devices can handle AI tasks. The M4 could potentially see significant enhancements in NPU performance, possibly through additional cores or improved speeds.

Is this a game-changing feature for you? If so, it might be worth waiting for the M4. It's important to remember that the AI competition is just beginning, and we can expect numerous improvements in the coming years. However, it's also worth considering that waiting indefinitely may become a perpetual strategy.
 

FlyingTexan

macrumors 6502a
Jul 13, 2015
870
599
Totally agree and I used to upgrade every year. Now only every 3 as I rarely feel like the hardware is the problem anymore as it used to be. Will be getting the M4 to replace my M1’s.
But does your m1 even feel slow? Why replace? I bought my m1 as a refurb more on a whim than anything. I had the 13" m1 and apple gave me $630 in a return and I'd only paid $1100 for it three years earlier. All the reviews were saying how the M1 14" had better speakers than the M2 14" so I went that route. Honestly for everything I do it's no slower than anything else. I am starting to get a little worn out with the design, I'll give it that. I REALLY wish they'd do a lenovo like carbon fiber.
 

Torty

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2013
979
756
You know you dont have to buy the latest mac every time one is released, right?
Maybe they should not release every new year a new soc and therefore cripple functionality. Looks like M3 got the old NPU from A15/M2 and not from A17 only to let the M4 look better.
Not much performance gain in CPU and GPU speed expected with the switch from N3B to N3E. So they needed the NPU thing.
Ah and I bet M4 pro gets the better Memory bandwidth again.
 
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