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macs4nw

macrumors 601
His Pono mumbo jumbo didn't work for him?
I gues there isn't as many audiofools as I thought there were.
You gotta give the man credit for a sincere effort to improve the sound quality we consumers are able to enjoy from our super convenient devices, and thereby also hopefully nudging the industry in that direction. (We've come a long, long way from carefully lowering a tone arm onto a vinyl record with limited dynamic range, giving us a handful of songs, mostly by the same artist(s), before repeating the delicate process, none of this very portable of course.

Apple reportedly snapping up a struggling Omnifone, could be construed as an effort to stymie Neil's endeavors, or it could simply be a way to augment their own cloud services, or even an indication of Apple's possible future intentions in the higher quality streaming sphere.

At any rate, I not only like Neil's distinctive style, but also applaud his sincere efforts.
 
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simonmet

Cancelled
Sep 9, 2012
2,666
3,663
Sydney
Any scientific blind ABX testing of supposed "ultra high fidelity" music, such as that sold by Neil Young's Pono outfit showed that people could not tell the difference between good quality sources like normal CD-Audio or modern iTunes downloads. And yes, even supposed audiophiles with "golden ears".

The only reason Neil Young pulled his music from streaming services was to force his fans to pay a premium to download oversized ultra-high bitrate music from Pono at exorbitant prices. Everyone saw right away that it was snake oil and it failed.

This commonly held belief is now being challenged. A recent meta-analysis found a statistically significant, better-than-average rate of correct identification that could not have been produced by chance among listeners who were trained to recognise high resolution audio. For listeners who weren't trained or chosen at random the effect was absent.

I've done some brief listening tests comparing a high resolution album I bought with the iTunes version (which is admittedly less than CD quality) and the difference is like night and day. I can correctly identify it almost 100% of the time even without my high quality DAC. And if you don't believe me I can send you example tracks and you can convert/upscale the iTunes ones and strip both files of all metadata so they look exactly the same (use tools like "Touch" in Terminal even so they look exactly the same) and you can send them back and I will tell you which is which. I can even tell if you send only only one file back whether it's the high res version or Apple iTunes.

Try me!

For this reason (and others) I stopped buying from iTunes a long time ago. Mostly because there are now plenty of other online retailers (or from the artist directly so they get more) that sell lossless or high resolution albums for the same price or less than iTunes. If someone offered you more for the same or less you'd take it right?

iTunes is only marginally cheaper even than buying new release physical CDs in a shop and CD stores often discount older albums significantly while iTunes rarely does. With iTunes you're paying for (minor) convenience and sacrificing almost everything else.
 
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nikon1

macrumors regular
Sep 15, 2014
111
135
Somewhere In South Jersey
Neil Young's "voice" in HiDef . . . . That would cause permanent "defness!"

No Thank You!
[doublepost=1478279061][/doublepost]
It's because his high quality music player startup Pono, hasn't taken off. Gee, I wonder why? iPod clones aren't exactly doing well these days. Even iPods aren't, lol. https://www.ponomusic.com/


But . . . He's still selling Non-HiDef Apparel on that site. Guess clothing sells buit HiDefPlayers don't?

YMMV
 

GeneralChang

macrumors 68000
Dec 2, 2013
1,676
1,514
Or... AM radio had awful sound quality. FM radio is also pretty bad. Tapes had terrible sound quality. CDs, although they had great sound quality, were so fragile that skipping from scratches ruined the sound quality sometimes.

Spotify isn't great, but I'll take Spotify quality over radio or tape any day.
Right? The statement that streaming is "the worst quality in the history of broadcasting" is so blatantly untrue it makes me wonder if Neil Young has ever actually listened to any form of broadcast music.
 

Ulisescm

macrumors regular
Sep 17, 2014
110
37
Mexico
Any scientific blind ABX testing of supposed "ultra high fidelity" music, such as that sold by Neil Young's Pono outfit showed that people could not tell the difference between good quality sources like normal CD-Audio or modern iTunes downloads. And yes, even supposed audiophiles with "golden ears".

The only reason Neil Young pulled his music from streaming services was to force his fans to pay a premium to download oversized ultra-high bitrate music from Pono at exorbitant prices. Everyone saw right away that it was snake oil and it failed.

There is no comparison between a high res recording and an mp3, the same thing goes to compare a Blu-ray against an ITunes version of the movie (sound and audio)
 

Nunyabinez

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2010
1,758
2,230
Provo, UT
Apologies to Neil Young fans, but it strikes me as odd that the artist who seems to be most concerned about sound quality can barely stay on pitch. I like some of his songs but "keep on rockin' in the free worrrrrld," oh my ears.
 

morcutt11

macrumors 6502
Jun 26, 2015
369
1,189
USA
The final ripping/encoding is only part of the overall perceived quality of the recording. Frankly, a lot can go wrong in the mastering process that masks sounds, rolls off frequencies, etc. When I first started getting CDs (and even before that with albums) I noticed some sounded great, while others were flat, dull. In looking at all of the information on the CDs, I noticed virtually all of them I had that sounded good were mastered by Bob Ludwig at Masterdisk. None of the ones that sounded flat & dull were mastered by him. Coincidence?
 

dysamoria

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2011
2,244
1,866
I dislike his work and his voice but I appreciate the wish to only hear one's own music at the best sound quality. I hate compression. But I also hate radio more than max quality VBR MP3...
 

Jakexb

macrumors 6502a
Mar 18, 2014
798
1,106
The "quality" thing was a justification for Pono. But most people aren't that level of audiophile.
 

Thunderhawks

Suspended
Feb 17, 2009
4,057
2,118
Back when I was a whippersnapper, we had to piece together an album on cassette tape -- using dupes. Talk about crappy sound quality! But it was all we had. iTunes has light-years better quality than that.

Did I mention that we had to go to school uphill both ways, in the winter without socks and I had to carry my sister on my back?

Neil Young obviously appeals like all music to those who are moved by it. Excellent CSNY music, some really great solo albums and then for me it deteriorated into noise and animal sounds, when he goes all electric.

I think he is done with ponography and came to his $en$e$.
 

2457282

Suspended
Dec 6, 2012
3,327
3,015
Obviously, there are opinions on Neil Young's music. Mine is that I like it. Whatever your opinion, let's be thankful that it is available again along with all the other stuff we like or not like. Freedom to listen to whatever we want is good.
 

Thunderhawks

Suspended
Feb 17, 2009
4,057
2,118
I noticed some sounded great, while others were flat, dull. In looking at all of the information on the CDs, I noticed virtually all of them I had that sounded good were mastered by Bob Ludwig at Masterdisk. None of the ones that sounded flat & dull were mastered by him. Coincidence?

You didn't mention his full name:

Bob Ludwig van Beethoven an I think the good ones were early work.
The flat and dull ones he probably mastered later, when he already had some problems.

Couldn't resist, happy Friday. Margheritas at 6 :)
 
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Soni Sanjay

macrumors 6502
Dec 25, 2013
329
885
This commonly held belief is now being challenged. A recent meta-analysis found a statistically significant, better-than-average rate of correct identification that could not have been produced by chance among listeners who were trained to recognise high resolution audio. For listeners who weren't trained or chosen at random the effect was absent.

I've done some brief listening tests comparing a high resolution album I bought with the iTunes version (which is admittedly less than CD quality) and the difference is like night and day. I can correctly identify it almost 100% of the time even without my high quality DAC. And if you don't believe me I can send you example tracks and you can convert/upscale the iTunes ones and strip both files of all metadata so they look exactly the same (use tools like "Touch" in Terminal even so they look exactly the same) and you can send them back and I will tell you which is which. I can even tell if you send only only one file back whether it's the high res version or Apple iTunes.

Try me!

For this reason (and others) I stopped buying from iTunes a long time ago. Mostly because there are now plenty of other online retailers (or from the artist directly so they get more) that sell lossless or high resolution albums for the same price or less than iTunes. If someone offered you more for less you'd take it right?

iTunes is only marginally cheaper even than buying new release physical CDs in a shop and CD stores often discount older albums significantly while iTunes rarely does. With iTunes you're paying for (minor) convenience and sacrificing almost everything else.

"who were trained to recognise high resolution audio"
If you need to "train" to recognize the difference between normal iTunes downloads and high fidelity sources, then there isn't that much of a difference and it will never catch on as a mainstream thing.

"and the difference is like night and day"
You are lying, unless there were different masterings, which would be why there would be any difference to begin with.

No I don't believe you, where are your ABX test results? There isn't anyone that could realistically recognize the difference between regular AAC 256 kbps files from so-called Hi.Res tracks, providing that they are the same file with the same mastering, etc.
[doublepost=1478288749][/doublepost]
There is no comparison between a high res recording and an mp3, the same thing goes to compare a Blu-ray against an ITunes version of the movie (sound and audio)

Except there is, a well encoded MP3 or an AAC file compared to a Hi.Res track is virtually indistinguishable, providing that they are the same master and mix.

There is no difference, learn how your ears work.
 
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yesjam

macrumors 6502
Jun 6, 2014
262
1,183
Love Neil Young's music as much as anyone's. Maybe he realized that AAC files at 256kbps VBR are scientifically proven to be totally transparent to the human ear. You don't need to waste storage space or bandwidth on anything at higher fidelity.
 
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