New Apple TV Only Supports Two Bluetooth Controllers at Once

[0098386]

You never likely considered nor pondered such a thing at all. I game and I sure didn't.

Most people don't play together on the same box regardless. They usually do it online in two different places, which makes the whole notion a bit of a moot point. I also don't think anyone ever goes out and buys 8 controllers for any system.

The idea of a party game with support for 8 people could be fun, but how often is that even going to happen?

Well it's not common but some people do get those amounts of controllers (though I've got about 5 Xbox 360 controllers, maybe 7 PS4 controllers of various types, plus a racing wheel. 7 Wii controllers). What is considerably more common is people bringing their own controllers for multiplayer games.

Supporting more than 2 would have been a big thing. Considering that Apple systems are *mostly* casual platforms (simple games with short lifespans), theres a huge position there to bring in those party games like the Wii used to have. Again - small, cheap, 2-8 player games. The PS3 has a single BT radio and supports up to 7 controllers via Bluetooth after all.

 

[0098386]

I don't see why this is a big deal? Two people is more than enough for casual gaming.

Party games were the lifeblood of the Wii, good enough to make it the best selling console of that generation.

 

[TitaniumTiti]

Can you use IR controllers?

Yes you can, they still work

 

[Knockworstface]

Anyone play "Unkilled" "Dead Trigger" "Dead Trigger 2" or Modern Combat 5 using any of this equipment?

 

[AppleScruff1]

I don't care if doesn't support any controllers and only gets one channel, I'm getting one anyway.

 

[empire01]

Anyone know if you can airplay with this? Can you stream stuff from your iPhone etc via appleTV onto your telly without logging into a wifi network?

 

[Taz Mangus]

It's the epicenter of gaming magic!!

Would that bother you if it was?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

It seems Apple is doing everything in its power to make ATV4 as underwhelming as possible. First the edict that games must work with the remote, not just a traditional game controller. Now we know games are also limited to 2 players. Also HomeKit, which ATV could make an excellent central hub, is still relatively undefined with no Killer use yet.

I miss the laser focus Apple lacks of recent when they'd push out product that was either an instant buy no-brainier, or for the more expensive items on the must-have list, because it did something really cool and you immediately understood how it fit in w/ your life or work routines and made it easier, more efficient, or mor enjoyable.

 

[ke-iron]

Anyone have a idea on when in October these go in sale?

I'm going to guess the last week since it's already October and it's still being tested in its final stages.

 

[ke-iron]

Next year: New Apple TV now supports 4K and up to 4 controllers.

Nope, most people still have 720 or 1080 tv's. Why spend the extra $20 or so to make the hardware powerful enough to play 4K if 90% of people who buys the Apple TV cannot view the content?

 

[ke-iron]

The only multiplayer I play is Smash Bros. for Wii U, anyway.

This is just about the largest local multiplayer game that is actually fun. I'll be damned if devs can make an 8 player game for Apple TV that's equally exciting.

 

[wigby]

So, what iPhone model are you referring to? Or did you mean IOS. Because Android has far more users than IOS and I bet a good percentage of them are casual gamers or at least tried one game. IOS does have better quality games than Android, but they still do not compare to consoles and Windows PC games.

For real gaming, Steam-Powered is the fastest growing platform in the world. Steam is the Facebook of gaming. Its intergraded features kill anything on the market at this time. I believe it has well over 60 Million users and at any giving time around 10 Million online. It may be much higher now. Not sure if it reached 1 Billion yet. remember most of these are real gamers, not random casual gamers. I know a few people that play IOSs games and none of them have ever upgraded to the paid version.

When it comes to gaming, Apple does not stand a chance against Microsoft, Sony and Steam-Powered. And do not forget about all the other games available for Windows PC. Mine-Craft alone which is owned by Microsoft, is still growing.

In the end, when it is added up. Windows PC is the largest gaming platform.

Just because millions of Apple phones and Android phones have bean sold and are in use, does not make either of them the largest gaming platform. The gamers make the platform...

But, hey! If you want to game on Apple TV... Hope it works out for

Studios go where the money and gamers are. Why do think every large studio has a mobile division for iOS and Android? I'm seeing commercials all over TV for casual games on my iPhone. I'm not seeing them for PCs and rarely for consoles. Steam has had years to collect PC gamers and they only have 60 million. That's a problem, not a good thing because most of those 60 million have grown up, gotten jobs, moved out of their parents homes and are now realizing they cannot afford a $2k gaming PC so they opt to game on the device they already have in their pockets.

 

[wigby]

Party games were the lifeblood of the Wii, good enough to make it the best selling console of that generation.

I think you're putting way too much stock in party games. They make for cool demos when they bare announced but I had a Wii and new several other families with Wii. I bought extra controllers and played Wii tennis with 3 others once. That's it. I tried to organize matches and parties and it was always too difficult to get that many people together. Maybe because they weren't really gamers at heart like me but isn't that what we're talking about here. Apple TV will never appeal to hardcore gamers and most casual gaming is solitary. Even if Apple TV supports 8 controllers (which it will in the future) no one will ever use it for that and Apple will end up saying to themselves "why did we ever bother supporting 8 game controllers on a box made for watching video?"

 

[pbasmadj]

Not a fan of the new Apple TV, at all. In fact, just bought the prior generation at the store yesterday. I don't like how they changed the form factor so It doesn't match the Airport Express anymore, I liked the older classic remote more, and they added all this functionality that I literally don't want AT ALL. All I want it to do is stream music, movies from the computer, airplay for guests, HBO/Netflix/etc/ screen savers, and stream computer live. Actually, kind of despise the new one. Zero desire to own.

 

[0098386]

Studios go where the money and gamers are. Why do think every large studio has a mobile division for iOS and Android? I'm seeing commercials all over TV for casual games on my iPhone. I'm not seeing them for PCs and rarely for consoles. Steam has had years to collect PC gamers and they only have 60 million. That's a problem, not a good thing because most of those 60 million have grown up, gotten jobs, moved out of their parents homes and are now realizing they cannot afford a $2k gaming PC so they opt to game on the device they already have in their pockets.

And yet the people I know with expensive computers and who upgrade them frequently are those with full time jobs, homes/mortgages.
I can only speak for my own company+games. In order of most profitable for us it goes PC and Mac > Console > Handheld > Mobile. PC gamers are willing to spend a lot on the games too both financially and in time. At least that's what I've found. I couldn't comment on how everyone behaves.

I think you're putting way too much stock in party games. They make for cool demos when they bare announced but I had a Wii and new several other families with Wii. I bought extra controllers and played Wii tennis with 3 others once. That's it. I tried to organize matches and parties and it was always too difficult to get that many people together. Maybe because they weren't really gamers at heart like me but isn't that what we're talking about here. Apple TV will never appeal to hardcore gamers and most casual gaming is solitary. Even if Apple TV supports 8 controllers (which it will in the future) no one will ever use it for that and Apple will end up saying to themselves "why did we ever bother supporting 8 game controllers on a box made for watching video?"

Again you're only giving us an insight into yours and your friends gaming habits. I don't think I've been to a house party this year that didn't involve a 4 player multiplayer game. One of the best multiplayer games I've ever played (and I recommend everyone play it) is Johan Sebastian Joust on the PS3. With 7 Move controllers it's just incredible. I think someone pirated it for mobiles but it was removed after legal pressure, I believe.

With my friends, even the non-gamers are up for Mario Kart 64 or a Mario Party title.

 

[alexgowers]

Hopefully this is not final and apple decide multiplayer with mfi is something that people should get. I think the Apple TV is the sleeper console that'll have some massive titles available before you know it.

 

[driceman]

I'm sure Apple has a passing interest in the gaming market as it could be an extra source of revenue for them, but it's pretty clear at this point that Apple TV games aren't going to be Wii/PlayStation/Xbox competition (at least not anytime soon).

What I don't understand is this kind of half-@$$ed attempt to get involved in gaming. I think they should either go all-out and make it a legitimate gaming device or not incorporate gaming at all, none of this in-between stuff that just confuses people. 4K support, 500 GB of storage, gaming-console graphics, and four-player support that doesn't require that the Apple TV remote works with the game need to happen before this will be a real market contender. I know Apple's brand is going to help sell the thing, but I don't think it'll stretch far enough to get people to buy games in the App Store that are required to support the Apple TV remote. As someone else said, Apple should just make their own gaming controller. If Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft can do it then certainly Apple can.

 

[Richdmoore]

Anyone play "Unkilled" "Dead Trigger" "Dead Trigger 2" or Modern Combat 5 using any of this equipment?

I am using the madcatz micro with an iPad Air 2. The controllers work great with unkilled & mc5, although I found the controller more sensitive than on the Xbox one. (It could be due to the size of the micro controller, they make a full size one as well I have not used.)

I haven't played extensively with dead trigger two using the controller. Dead trigger one does NOT work, you can move around, but the fire button (and others) do not work. Of course, this may change in a future update.

The odd thing about the mfi controllers vs ps4/Xbox is that the sticks do not have clickable buttons, so to port a game over from those systems requires at least a little thought about reworking those controls. All the face buttons (including the dpad) on the mfi controllers are pressure sensitive, while the original Xbox controller had some sensitive buttons as well, the Xbox 360/one use just on/off buttons.

 

[driceman]

Gradual improvement, Apple's speciality.

Interestingly, Jobs tried doing the opposite and making one killer product to rule them all multiple times (the original Macintosh, the NeXT cube). Both flopped abysmally because adding in all those features drove the price up and 99% of people weren't willing to spend $2500 on a Mac in 1984 and $7000 on a NeXT cube in 1990.

Criticize Apple all you want for holding back features (and I see your point here, don't get me wrong; you'd think they'd either go all-in on this gaming thing or just not bother with third party controller support), but trying to make a device that'll be perfect for everyone, with all the latest features, for the next five years is a terrible business model. Apple's not really in the business of losing money when they sell hardware, which is what Sony and Microsoft do every time they sell a game console, which they hope to make up by selling games.

 

[sudo1996]

I think you're putting way too much stock in party games. They make for cool demos when they bare announced but I had a Wii and new several other families with Wii. I bought extra controllers and played Wii tennis with 3 others once. That's it. I tried to organize matches and parties and it was always too difficult to get that many people together. Maybe because they weren't really gamers at heart like me but isn't that what we're talking about here. Apple TV will never appeal to hardcore gamers and most casual gaming is solitary. Even if Apple TV supports 8 controllers (which it will in the future) no one will ever use it for that and Apple will end up saying to themselves "why did we ever bother supporting 8 game controllers on a box made for watching video?"

I think 4 is the magic number. Whenever friends were over, we used all 4 controllers for the GameCube, N64, or Xbox we were playing on. Most games wouldn't work well with >4 players, and the room would get crowded, but 4 is fine.

 

[Misaki]

Maybe it makes sense to differentiate between the AppleTV hardware and tvOS 1.0. I'm pretty sure the AppleTV itself has no hardware limitation for the number of paired/connected bluetooth devices...

To state the obvious.

https://developer.apple.com/library...elessControllerDiscoveryWithCompletionHandler:
or
https://developer.apple.com/library...ef/index.html#//apple_ref/occ/cl/GCController
The device searches asynchronously for discoverable wireless controllers as well as controllers that are connected to iOS devices that have been placed in controller-forwarding mode. Whenever a new controller is connected, aGCControllerDidConnectNotification notification is posted. When no more devices can be found or the discovery process times out, the completion handler is called.

So it stops looking for controllers when it can't find any more. Essentially you need all controllers active simultaneously.

https://developer.apple.com/library...ml#//apple_ref/c/tdef/GCControllerPlayerIndex
GCControllerPlayerIndex
Constants

• GCControllerPlayerIndexUnset
  
  The default index for a player on a controller. No lights are lit on the controller.
  
  Available in tvOS 9.0 and later.
• GCControllerPlayerIndex1
  
  Specifies that player one is using this controller.
  
  Available in tvOS 9.0 and later.
• GCControllerPlayerIndex2
  
  Specifies that player two is using this controller.
  
  Available in tvOS 9.0 and later.
• GCControllerPlayerIndex3
  
  Specifies that player three is using this controller.
  
  Available in tvOS 9.0 and later.
• GCControllerPlayerIndex4
  
  Specifies that player four is using this controller.
  
  Available in tvOS 9.0 and later.

So the software limit is 4 because this struct only supports 4 controllers.

Also the documentation says tvOS 9, matching with iOS 9, not 1.0

 

[ratanshah]

Apple's fourth-generation Apple TV includes support for a full App Store, making it possible for developers to create games and apps for the device for the first time. A platform like the Apple TV seems well-suited to multiplayer games, but it appears the new Apple TV will only support two Bluetooth controllers at once and three Bluetooth-connected devices total.

Our sister site TouchArcade got in touch with several developers who have Apple TV Dev Kits to test the limits of multiplayer gameplay on the devices, and these developers found they were only able to connect two controllers in addition to the Apple Remote control.

That means that at the current time, the Apple TV supports a total of three players for local gameplay using controllers, which will likely be the preferred method of control for games like first person shooters and platformers. Attempting to connect more than two controllers causes one of the first connected controllers to disconnect, and multiple Made for iPhone (MFi) controllers were tested by various developers.
The limitations on Bluetooth-connected devices do not extend to the iPhone, which can also be used as a controller in multiplayer games. Implementing iPhone control methods is tricker than simple MFi controller support, however, as it requires developers to build custom iPhone support into apps.

All tvOS games and apps are required to include touch-based controls for the Siri remote, so most titles should work with simple iPhone controls, but many gamers may prefer using MFi controllers. Apple's decision to force developers to build games around touch support has not been a popular one, as it limits games to very basic control schemes.

Apple may be planning to expand the number of controllers supported by the Apple TV ahead of its October launch, but for now, it looks like the device will only support two controllers simultaneously, further limiting the gaming capabilities of the Apple TV.

Article Link: New Apple TV Only Supports Two Bluetooth Controllers at Once

 

[ratanshah]

Too bad if Gaming is planned option

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

It seems Apple is doing everything in its power to make ATV4 as underwhelming as possible. First the edict that games must work with the remote, not just a traditional game controller. Now we know games are also limited to 2 players. Also HomeKit, which ATV could make an excellent central hub, is still relatively undefined with no Killer use yet.

They could have included a built-in web cam (what do those cost wholsale these days for Apple? $8?) and had FaceTime in every home theatre room (would be cool, IMO as I wouldn't even have to get up to do a full screen 93" video chat with someone). No no. That would require THINKING to include something like that.

 

[nepalisherpa]

Nope, most people still have 720 or 1080 tv's. Why spend the extra $20 or so to make the hardware powerful enough to play 4K if 90% of people who buys the Apple TV cannot view the content?

Then why release a phone with 4K video capability? If you are going to release a phone then release a medium that can play those videos as well. 4K TVs are getting cheaper by the day.