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charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
I know it's a bit of a leap for some people to understand.....but the "I'm a PC" ad from MS is a direct shot back at Apple, subtle but it's there and by the way it didn't work.


Yep. the message was meant to be "why would you buy from a company that stereotypes us PC users. we are more than just fat, dumpy geeks. we are all kinds of people and we are proud to be PC users"

the best part of the Apple Ads is that everything they say about Windows and Microsoft is true and even Microsoft knows it. which is why they haven't tried to sue for defamation.

as for the person that said they would devote more time to talking about Macs, they do have ads that do just that. Maybe not the last 2-3 "I'm a Mac" but they happen. and they have old campaigns outside of "I'm a Mac" just about their stuff.

one example: Iphone TV ads
 

Quillz

macrumors 65816
Jan 6, 2006
1,421
0
Los Angeles, CA
Yep. the message was meant to be "why would you buy from a company that stereotypes us PC users. we are more than just fat, dumpy geeks. we are all kinds of people and we are proud to be PC users"

the best part of the Apple Ads is that everything they say about Windows and Microsoft is true and even Microsoft knows it. which is why they haven't tried to sue for defamation.

as for the person that said they would devote more time to talking about Macs, they do have ads that do just that. Maybe not the last 2-3 "I'm a Mac" but they happen. and they have old campaigns outside of "I'm a Mac" just about their stuff.

one example: Iphone TV ads
Yes, absolutely everything ever said by Apple regarding Microsoft is true. They say you need a new PC to run Vista, and this must be true because Vista runs perfectly fine on three PCs I own from 2004, 2005 and 2006. And it's also completely true that Vista needs fixing, as Microsoft has never released a service pack for Vista, ever.

Maybe Apple needs to stop advertising and go fix the numerous bugs that plague Leopard, or is it Mac OS X, or is it 10.5? I don't know, the delayed OS has had many names over the years.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
Yes, absolutely everything ever said by Apple regarding Microsoft is true. They say you need a new PC to run Vista,

don't recall that statement ever being in an Apple Ad.

And it's also completely true that Vista needs fixing, as Microsoft has never released a service pack for Vista, ever.

so the fact that Microsoft offered to give XP to those with Vista preinstalled on their new systems cause Vista wasn't working properly means nothing to you.

Maybe Apple needs to stop advertising and go fix the numerous bugs that plague Leopard, or is it Mac OS X, or is it 10.5?

they have released multiple fixes. that's part of the reason why there is a .5 and soon be a .6. not to mention several security updates and updates to various Apple programs made to run under Leopard
 

DMann

macrumors 601
Jan 13, 2002
4,001
0
10023
so the fact that Microsoft often to give XP to those with Vista preinstalled on their new systems cause Vista wasn't working properly means nothing to you.

Furthermore,

Quoted from NYTimes:

"After almost two years, Windows Vista still faces a lackluster reception from consumers and a relentless marketing barrage from Apple. The problem was highlighted last week when Microsoft reported its financial results for the most recent quarter. Its Windows unit reported just a 2 percent rise in revenue against a 4 percent decline in operating income. The computer industry viewed the setback as a shift of historic proportions. The company acknowledged last week that the mix of Windows sales in both mature and emerging markets had tipped more toward low-cost PCs, which come with lower-margin versions of Windows and often not Vista. Sales of Office software rose 23 percent, bringing in more revenue than the operating system."

MS is no longer regarding the Vista Fiasco as insignificant. MS, themselves, have admitted that Vista is problematic, and have publicly stated that it is alright to skip Vista altogether and wait until Windows 7 before upgrading. "After all," says Ballmer, "Windows 7 will be Vista, but a lot better."
 

Quillz

macrumors 65816
Jan 6, 2006
1,421
0
Los Angeles, CA
so the fact that Microsoft often to give XP to those with Vista preinstalled on their new systems cause Vista wasn't working properly means nothing to you.
Microsoft offered XP to any end user who wanted it, not because Vista didn't work properly, but because not all legacy applications worked properly with Vista. It's not Microsoft's fault if an old application fails to work properly with Vista due to outdated and/or buggy drivers. It is seemingly never Apple's fault when something goes wrong with Mac OS X, so why is Microsoft blamed for every third party application gone awry in Vista?

Not to mention that Microsoft even offered Windows XP in the first place. I don't recall Apple offering Mac OS 9 to those who had trouble with Mac OS X, or Tiger to those who had trouble with Leopard. Microsoft offers multiple solutions to its end users, whereas Apple likes to screw its customers ever. Oh, your application needed the Classic framework and now won't run in Leopard? Too bad. Oh, your camcorder needs a FireWire port? Too bad, looks like you'll need to buy a MacBook Pro instead.

And frankly, it does mean nothing to me. I don't care if Vista didn't work for you or your friend. Vista has always worked flawlessly for me, and that's all that really matters. It runs better on my MacBook than does Leopard and XP, and that's how I judge operating systems. At the end of the day, it comes down to what works the fastest and performs the best.
 

Quillz

macrumors 65816
Jan 6, 2006
1,421
0
Los Angeles, CA
Furthermore,

Quoted from NYTimes:

"After almost two years, Windows Vista still faces a lackluster reception from consumers and a relentless marketing barrage from Apple. The problem was highlighted last week when Microsoft reported its financial results for the most recent quarter. Its Windows unit reported just a 2 percent rise in revenue against a 4 percent decline in operating income. The computer industry viewed the setback as a shift of historic proportions. The company acknowledged last week that the mix of Windows sales in both mature and emerging markets had tipped more toward low-cost PCs, which come with lower-margin versions of Windows and often not Vista. Sales of Office software rose 23 percent, bringing in more revenue than the operating system."

MS is no longer regarding the Vista Fiasco as insignificant. MS, themselves, have admitted that Vista is problematic, and have publicly stated that it is alright to skip Vista altogether and wait until Windows 7 before upgrading. "After all," says Ballmer, "Windows 7 will be Vista, but a lot better."
Of course it's alright to skip Vista and wait for Windows 7, as you'll still be paying Microsoft money.

The fact that some businesses are skipping Vista means nothing. There are many businesses today that continue to run Windows NT 4.0 or Windows 2000 Server. And yet I don't see people citing as evidence for the "failure" of Windows XP or Windows Server 2003. Because with businesses, it's not about having the latest and greatest, it's about having what works. There is nothing inherently wrong with Vista or Windows Server 2008, it's simple a question of value at the end of the day. For most businesses, we already have a Windows Server installation running and it's fine, so why bother changing it?

As for Ballmer's comments, it's absolutely true. Windows 98 was Windows 95, but better. Windows XP was Windows 2000, but better. And Windows 7 will be Windows Vista, but better. Microsoft appears to have a strategy similar to Intel's "tick-tock." That is, they tend to do a major OS revision ever 5-7 years and then follow it up with a number of minor OS upgrades that fix the bugs and annoyances of its predecessor. We saw this with Windows 3 in 1990, then Windows 95 in 1995, Windows XP in 2001 and Windows Vista in 2007. Between 3 and 95, there were minor releases such as 3.1 that fixed and added features. Between 95 and XP, there was 98 and ME that also fixed and added features. Between XP and Vista, we had XP SP2, a very significant milestone. And now it only makes sense that between Vista and the next major Windows milestone (perhaps Azure), we see yet another interim release, in this case, Windows 7.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
I don't recall Apple offering Mac OS 9 to those who had trouble with Mac OS X,

when OSX was originally released, they kept a Classic Mode available until the bulk of 3rd party apps were updated. So it's not like they just shrugged and said "too bad for you"

At this point if someone is still using OS9 or OS9 versions of applications, how can Apple be blamed. You are talking about 5 year old software.

Also, have you ever taken in a computer after a new version 'failed'. if not, how do you know that they wouldn't give you a copy of Tiger, Panther, whatever.

Microsoft offers multiple solutions to its end users, whereas Apple likes to screw its customers ever.

yeah, they created the whole in store technical support service to better screw customers.
Oh, your application needed the Classic framework and now won't run in Leopard?
anyone that expects a Classic application to run on an OS version that is 4-5 years newer is an idiot. sorry but true.

Vista has always worked flawlessly for me,

yipee for you. but it has not been the case for everyone and for some still isn't. And Microsoft hasn't done the best job of handling it. Unfortunately for them, Apple is more than happy to point this out to folks. No one is stopping Microsoft from turning the tables and doing the same to Apple.
 

elppa

macrumors 68040
Nov 26, 2003
3,233
151
I don't recall Apple offering Mac OS 9 to those who had trouble with Mac OS X

They didn't offer it, they gave it to you.

Every retail copy of OS X 10.0 and 10.1 came with Mac OS 9. Every Macintosh sold dual booted into both.

Comparing the ridiculously well handled OS 9 -> OS X transistion to XP -> Vista is silly. XP and Vista are both NT based kernels, OS 9 and OS X are completely different specimens.

Apple could upgrade their customers from OS 9 -> OS X (which share nothing in common) by giving them a simple click-though installer on a CD, which once finished, left you with a dual booting machine and a machine which could virtualise your OS 9 applications inside of OS X.

The fact they did this 6 years ago on measly hardware compared to todays standard is testament to the effort they put into the transition.

The fact they moved to a whole new processor architecture and did this in such a transparent way is again testament to Apple's software engineering expertise.

And the fact they did all this within the timeframe it took Microsoft to move from XP to Vista says… well, I'll leave it up to you.

Epic Fail is trying to make Apple out as the bad guys.
 

chagla

macrumors 6502a
Mar 21, 2008
797
1,727
yah yah, except apple has to deal with ONLY ONE iteration of hardware set whereas Windows has to deal with billions of possible hardware combinations.

it's not windows's fault for manufacturers bundling craps with computers.
it's not windows's fault for crashing for badly written drivers, software or poor quality hardware.

thanks.
 

elppa

macrumors 68040
Nov 26, 2003
3,233
151
yah yah, except apple has to deal with ONLY ONE iteration of hardware set whereas Windows has to deal with billions of possible hardware combinations.

it's not windows's fault for manufacturers bundling craps with computers.
it's not windows's fault for crashing for badly written drivers, software or poor quality hardware.

thanks.

So… What were they doing the rest of the time?

Ensuring greater compatibility means MS are on a slower release schedule and may explain some 6/7 year gap between Xp and Vista, but not all of it.

Considering Apple changed from a proprietary internal OS to a UNIX based OS and then changed the processor architecture in less time than Microsoft took to transition from one OS (XP) to another (Vista) which both share the same kernel and run on the same architecture is quite impressive.

Microsoft play a clever game, you need to stop falling for it:
[1] They talk about the “eco-system” and broad device support and hardware choice as an advantage of Windows.
[2] Then when anything goes wrong they blame their partners.

A bit hypocritical by Microsoft don't you think? Not quite as hypocritical as blaming a lack of interesting hardware made by their partners for the failure of “Plays for Sure” and then introducing Zune which used… a reference design from Toshiba (who just so happened to be one of Microsoft's “Plays for Sure” partners!).
But that's another story.

It works both ways too. Let me demonstrate:
[1] Is it Sony's fault they still have to offer a 7 year old OS on their super cool TT Laptop beacuse Vista doesn't run as well and their customers demand it?
[2] Is it HPs fault their machines suffered from spyware, malware and viruses in the past?

Further to your impassioned defence of the biggest, richest software company in the world:
  • Poor drivers and poor hardware is hard to handle at an OS level (although not impossible!).
  • There is no way an OS should crash because of poor software.
  • There is also no way an OS should slow down because it has a lot of software installed. period.

This is all to do with poor architectural decisions made in Windows (*cough* Registry *cough*). And since Microsoft make Windows they should take some of the blame. They should have taken responsibility for the security of their platform far earlier than they did.

Trying to undermine Apple's software engineering expertise with the age old “they support more hardware” argument will always fall flat on its face.

It's precisely the reason that Apple follows the integrated model they do and is able to deliver better products faster to market as a result. They avoid many of the pitfalls that Microsoft must handle.

The fact that Microsoft does a reasonable job (and getting better) of managing all these pitfalls and is able to be so successful is quite impressive.

But this is not a reason to belittle Apple's software engineering and expertise.

PS: Mac OS X runs on more processor architectures than Windows (3 — PowerPC, X86, ARM). Many PCs are built to a standard spec. Most PC Laptops have similar hardware following an intel platform. Sure there are quite a few custom rigs out there, but let's not over state the amount of configurations MS has to support — it's not like every single user in world has a unique PC!
 

Quillz

macrumors 65816
Jan 6, 2006
1,421
0
Los Angeles, CA
  • Poor drivers and poor hardware is hard to handle at an OS level (although not impossible!).
  • There is no way an OS should crash because of poor software.
  • There is also no way an OS should slow down because it has a lot of software installed. period.
Then why did no one blame Apple for Application Enhancer crashing Leopard? It was all Unsanity's fault, and yet by your very logic, it should have been Apple's, since you just stated that in no way should an OS crash because of poor software.
 

elppa

macrumors 68040
Nov 26, 2003
3,233
151
Then why did no one blame Apple for Application Enhancer crashing Leopard? It was all Unsanity's fault, and yet by your very logic, it should have been Apple's, since you just stated that in no way should an OS crash because of poor software.

Quite right.

In theory though this is not always the case. Notice I said above that there is “no way it should happen”, not “no way it can happen”.

Back to the incident in question, plenty of people did blame Apple for the incident and the Leopard Software itself for blue screening.
 

liptonlover

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2008
989
0
Bean counter is my fav, hands down. The latest one could have been good, I don't think Justin reacted right when PC said 10m, and I don't think PC said 10m soon enough. Oh well, it was still hilarious :cool:
 
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