nMP vs iMac for Music production?

[Zwhaler]

Fun Knee. I think Derbothaus (whom I haven't seen 'round these parts for some time) was awakened from his slumber by the absurdity. With all respect, in your post you do suggest that others call you crazy… I don't wish to engage in any such activity, but do suggest a little research into topics like snake oil, magic elixirs and marketing hype. Also, Digital Audio 101, Analog Audio 101 and these:

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_26_r.pdf (note the first "Lie")

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_16_r.pdf (Page 51)

and, of course, this classic (please don't miss the reviews!):
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B000I1X6PM

PS: I apologize if I missed a "sarcasm" disclaimer.

Maybe it is a placebo, but there are many people who notice a difference in sound quality when using a better cable to connect their interface for recording. I'm not defensive about this, by the way, if you want to build a $50,000 signal chain and use a 2 dollar thunderbolt adapter to plug it in (I've tried using Apple's, and it does mess up the sound), or use the cheapest possible Firewire cable, go right ahead, I have no intention of giving you a hard time about it.

Also that last one... I read 6 pages of 1 star reviews and not a single verified buyer? Hmm...

You are crazy.

You are more right than you know about that my friend! But I don't care, I'll buy what I want and enjoy using it.

I really dont want to call you crazy but...

I get, yeah a quality firewire cable is better. But if it doesnt humm hizz whatever and works there wont be a difference between the 10$ and the 100$ silver gold plated thicker diameter audio 100% quality firewire cable.

To a degree I accept this cable hype with analoge cables. There is a point to it. But with digital cables not. If your Audio Interface sends data to your computer, these 1's and 0's cant get "better" than 1 and 0. And if some data gets dropped because the cable is really bad at those timestamps just wont be audio.

Because Audio Interfaces are made for real time communication the protocol to deliver the audio data to the pc, it doesnt get verified if the full data gets delivered. If a few 1 and 0 are dropped for this point in time wont be all the audio data here and doesnt sound.

And now dont argue, yes that is it! The cheaper cable is always dropping something and it sounds not as good, like it drops only the high end 1's and 0's. Well no. For this to happen the cable has to be very intelligent. If it drops something, it will drop data all over the place and you will notice the cable as unusable. It cant just drop all high end 1's and 0's because it doesnt know what is what. When an normal lets say a 1/4 cable sounds bad with no high end it makes sense if it is a really bad one. (small copper etc..)

I'm no scientist, but whoever wants to believe that it makes no difference and whoever does should go right ahead. I happen to have purchased the best cable I could find in order not to knowingly bottleneck my system. If it makes no difference then hey, save yourself the money and buy the cheapest firewire cable you possibly can.

And it probably gets listened to on pair of inexpensive earbuds.

Very often true, however it is not the point nor is it a good excuse to use cheaper preamps, microphones, etc.

 

[MMcCraryNJ]

lol wow. That's all I'll say.

 

[derbothaus]

I use the best optical cable and firewire cable I could get for my audio, and it sounds amazing. I wasn't sure if the "marketing jargon" was true until I had it confirmed by a friend who recently got his degree in sound design from Berklee College of Music. Call me crazy but I don't believe that a 2 dollar firewire cable is going to deliver the same audio quality as this one.

SOLID 100% PERFECT-SURFACE SILVER (PSS) CONDUCTORS:*Perfect-Surface Technology applied to extreme-purity silver provides unprecedented clarity and dynamic contrast. Solid conductors prevent strand interaction, a major source of cable distortion. Extremely high-purity Perfect-Surface Silver minimizes distortion caused by the grain boundaries which exist within any metal conductor, nearly eliminating harshness and greatly increasing clarity compared to OFHC, OCC, 8N and other coppers.

SOLID HIGH-DENSITY POLYETHYLENE INSULATION:*Any solid material adjacent to a conductor is actually part of an imperfect circuit. Wire insulation and circuit board materials all absorb energy (loss). Some of this energy is stored and then later released as distortion.*Solid High-Density Polyethylene Insulation ensures critical signal-pair geometry while minimizing insulation-induced phase distortion.

DIELECTRIC-BIAS SYSTEM (DBS, US Pat #s 7,126,055 & 7,872,195 B1):*All insulation slows down the signal on the conductor inside. When insulation is unbiased, it slows down parts of the signal differently, a big problem for very time-sensitive multi-octave audio. AudioQuest’s DBS creates a strong, stable electrostatic field which saturates and polarizes (organizes) the molecules of the insulation. This minimizes both energy storage in the insulation and the multiple nonlinear time-delays that occur. Sound appears from a surprisingly black background with unexpected detail and dynamic contrast. The DBS battery packs will last for years. A test button and LED allow for the occasional battery check.

What isn't "multi-octave audio"? Lol.
I would put my money into something like a master clock that would make a real audible difference. And probably costs close to the same as 1 or 2 of those cables and fixes all your $2 cables and their unfortunate 'slower' bit deliveries. But I don't know anyone who has a nice 75.00+ FW cable to A/B so I resign that fancy scientific description trumps logic and physics. Pro tip: Enjoy the magic cable but don't tell folks you bought that thing. Seriously. 20+ year vets will think you are a schmo. Explaining the benefits is like explaining religion and faith. There is no way to 'win'. They will hear that there is no difference and you will hear quite a difference. Human brains. The way we process audio is completely impressionable against other stimuli you wouldn't think would matter.
Mixing the crazy yacht priced audiophile world and proaudio is not a good idea. Opposing goals usually. Unless it makes you happy. Then, y'know, do what you love.
But goodness we are off topic.

 

[Zwhaler]

What isn't "multi-octave audio"? Lol.
I would put my money into something like a master clock that would make a real audible difference. And probably costs close to the same as 1 or 2 of those cables and fixes all your $2 cables and their unfortunate 'slower' bit deliveries. But I don't know anyone who has a nice 75.00+ FW cable to A/B so I resign that fancy scientific description trumps logic and physics. Pro tip: Enjoy the magic cable but don't tell folks you bought that thing. Seriously. 20+ year vets will think you are a schmo. Explaining the benefits is like explaining religion and faith. There is no way to 'win'. They will hear that there is no difference and you will hear quite a difference. Human brains. The way we process audio is completely impressionable against other stimuli you wouldn't think would matter.
Mixing the crazy yacht priced audiophile world and proaudio is not a good idea. Opposing goals usually. Unless it makes you happy. Then, y'know, do what you love.
But goodness we are off topic.

I appreciate the response. I don't want to come off as preachy about it at all, since I don't know much about it and simply bought into the marketing. I am a very happy customer (by the replies here I would have had amazing sound either way.) The best way I could sum my feelings about it to anyone who responded to me is with the following rhetorical question: If money were no object, would you choose a 2$ cheap firewire cable, or the one I have?

/offtopic

 

[VirtualRain]

SOLID 100% PERFECT-SURFACE SILVER (PSS) CONDUCTORS:*Perfect-Surface Technology applied to extreme-purity silver provides unprecedented clarity and dynamic contrast. Solid conductors prevent strand interaction, a major source of cable distortion. Extremely high-purity Perfect-Surface Silver minimizes distortion caused by the grain boundaries which exist within any metal conductor, nearly eliminating harshness and greatly increasing clarity compared to OFHC, OCC, 8N and other coppers.

SOLID HIGH-DENSITY POLYETHYLENE INSULATION:*Any solid material adjacent to a conductor is actually part of an imperfect circuit. Wire insulation and circuit board materials all absorb energy (loss). Some of this energy is stored and then later released as distortion.*Solid High-Density Polyethylene Insulation ensures critical signal-pair geometry while minimizing insulation-induced phase distortion.

DIELECTRIC-BIAS SYSTEM (DBS, US Pat #s 7,126,055 & 7,872,195 B1):*All insulation slows down the signal on the conductor inside. When insulation is unbiased, it slows down parts of the signal differently, a big problem for very time-sensitive multi-octave audio. AudioQuest’s DBS creates a strong, stable electrostatic field which saturates and polarizes (organizes) the molecules of the insulation. This minimizes both energy storage in the insulation and the multiple nonlinear time-delays that occur. Sound appears from a surprisingly black background with unexpected detail and dynamic contrast. The DBS battery packs will last for years. A test button and LED allow for the occasional battery check.

Wow. As an engineer and a marketer, I'm not sure which part of me is more stunned. I would so much love to know how much of this kind of product they sell. I have to believe it's tiny or my world will be turned upside down.

 

[Gav Mack]

Fun Knee. I think Derbothaus (whom I haven't seen 'round these parts for some time) was awakened from his slumber by the absurdity. With all respect, in your post you do suggest that others call you crazy… I don't wish to engage in any such activity, but do suggest a little research into topics like snake oil, magic elixirs and marketing hype. Also, Digital Audio 101, Analog Audio 101 and these:

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_26_r.pdf (note the first "Lie")

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_16_r.pdf (Page 51)

and, of course, this classic (please don't miss the reviews!):
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B000I1X6PM

PS: I apologize if I missed a "sarcasm" disclaimer.

I missed those reviews - some were classics. Though in the UK I am old enough to remember the days of Peter Belt who was probably the craziest one of all time; I'm laughing now remembering the time spent with an enthusiast pal of mine who bought Belt's products was convinced sticking bits of tape onto my old Linn LP12's platter and my new Roksan Xerxes was making a difference to the sound. I could not notice a thing and did my best to maintain a poker face throughout. He had a lot of the Hi-Fi press convinced too at the time!

If any of you want to do some 'research' here's his website:

http://pwbelectronics.co.uk/

 

[DPUser]

Every day, technology is producing astronomical numbers of objects that seriously impair the senses and our well-being. We have, yet again, constructed a number of experiments that require virtually no financial outlay, yet are capable of exposing an invisible technological pollution which is extremely harmful to all human beings.

The first essential experimental item is one that most households possess - a deep freeze compartment within a domestic refrigerator. For a number of years, a number of people who are already aware and astute have attempted to make the rest of the population aware that, if certain items, mainly Compact Discs, were frozen and then defrosted slowly, a significant increase in the subjective sound would occur...

http://pwbelectronics.co.uk/whatamess.html

Some things never change. Thanks for sharing this Gav.

I am now enlightened.

 

[fastlanephil]

Well, getting back to the original subject.

Which Mac you should buy is getting more complicated these days.

Take for instance my situation. I didn't like creating music with two computers over a LAN so I sold my TOTL Mac Mini for $100 more than I paid for it minus the eBay/PayPal fees and tried just using my quad-core iMac. The problem seems to be now that my DAW software is a 32-bit single threaded application so it's hammering one of my cores while the others sit idle. I guess that's why Activity Monitor shows very modest use of my CPU at the bottom of it's GUI but in the CPU column it's toasting it. And there are no plans for this to change on the Mac side. The developer's gone sour on Apple.

So I'm starting to learn Logic Pro X which Pretty much utilizes all the cores and there haven't been any major issues so far.

So you really need to have at least some idea of which applications you are going to be doing most of your work with and buy the Mac that looks to be best suited for them.

The 4GHZ iMac is very strong for single core work and the Mac Pro's strong suite is multi-processing/threading.

And then there are are many other considerations such as connectivity, noise level tolerance and how long you want to keep what you have. Obviously the Mac Pro will work for you longer. But in three or four years it might be looking pretty long in the tooth compared to what Apple comes out with for the iMac or what ever.

I'm still still vasilating between the Retina iMac and the Mac Pro. The Retina iMac is still using Haswell, though be it a faster i7 upgrade option and the Mac Pro is still using Ivory Bridge. I'm not sure if it a great time to buy but if you need a new Mac right now you get one and just not worry about it.

 

[omnisphere]

fastlanephil!

I don´t think that the new Xeon CPU:s is much faster than the current ones. may be 10% faster?

I am going for the 6 Core soon!

 

[omnisphere]

I tried the 4 and 6 core in Apple store and the 4 is almost as good performer as the 6.

So the best thing for me now is go for the Quad-core nMP and later upgrade the CPU to 6 or 8 Core.

 

[fastlanephil]

fastlanephil!

I don´t think that the new Xeon CPU:s is much faster than the current ones. may be 10% faster?

I am going for the 6 Core soon!

According to posts here, the new Xeons are closer to 5% faster and actually slower for some tasks.

Apple could add more cache or something for a slight boost. The only real advantage to waiting is that there could be more or better CPU upgrade options than with the 6,1 MacPro. I'm not sure if that is a valid reason to wait.

From what I'm reading the next significant Intel CPU release won't be until Skylake which is probably a few years off for the Xeons.

 

[elvisizer]

The best way I could sum my feelings about it to anyone who responded to me is with the following rhetorical question: If money were no object, would you choose a 2$ cheap firewire cable, or the one I have?

/offtopic

I would choose the $2 cable in a heartbeat, as long as it works. Firewire is digital- either the ENTIRE signal gets there, or NOTHING does.

Also loved your comment on a thunderbolt adapter coloring sound. Do you also try each PCI slot to find the best sounding one? lolololololololololololol

You really should just stop talking for awhile there, champ.

 

[fastlanephil]

I tried the 4 and 6 core in Apple store and the 4 is almost as good performer as the 6.

So the best thing for me now is go for the Quad-core nMP and later upgrade the CPU to 6 or 8 Core.

I've read that people are reporting that the 4 core Mac Pro does better in real world tasks than what Geekbench would have you believe so your observation could be correct. That's always been the case it seems.

There's also a 10 core upgrade for the 6,1.

Good luck!

 

[wesk702]

My 6 core is too much machine for my production needs, but damn it feels good. Everything is just so blazing fast it drives me to insanity when I use a computer that isn't as fast. If you got the cash burning a hole in your pocket, get the 6 core, but most important will be the 1TB ssd. 4 cores is fine but the 1Tb is a necessity especially if you want speed. My big projects on logic and ableton can be easily handled on even an older cMP, so any of the nMPs will be fine.

 

[davidec]

There's very few reasons to buy a nMP over a cMP. Noise and modernity are two, but these are mitigated by the fact that you get equal power for a fifth of the price and more compatibility and versatility in a cMP over a nMP. Until Apple allow Logic X to utilise Open GL then there's little reason to own a nMP.

The classic allows full 400/800 Firewire compatibility without the need for dangling converter cables, 4 hard drive bays without external enclosure and the ability to upgrade the CPU, Ram and graphics cards.

I recently purchased a twelve core 2.66 2010 MacPro and I am getting a benchmark of 29,000. Running natively in 64 but I have twenty four cores available to me in Logic and even the largest multi-layered orchestral instrument in Kontakt (like those from Sonokinetik) won't touch the 30 gig of ram I have in the Machine. Nor will 50 instances of whatever most CPU hungry component push the 24 cores.

All of this for 2K. I have over 10 Macs across several studios and this set up is by far the most reliable, powerful and trouble free.

Funny to hear everyone talking about the quality of this versus the quality of that - but the reality is that you can't polish a turd. It would just be good to be able to create the biggest turd possible by spending 2K as opposed to 8K and using the 6K on a good Moog synth, or a Neumann Mic or a decent soundcard, mixer or all of the above.

 

[MMcCraryNJ]

There's very few reasons to buy a nMP over a cMP. Noise and modernity are two, but these are mitigated by the fact that you get equal power for a fifth of the price and more compatibility and versatility in a cMP over a nMP. Until Apple allow Logic X to utilise Open GL then there's little reason to own a nMP.

The classic allows full 400/800 Firewire compatibility without the need for dangling converter cables, 4 hard drive bays without external enclosure and the ability to upgrade the CPU, Ram and graphics cards.

I recently purchased a twelve core 2.66 2010 MacPro and I am getting a benchmark of 29,000. Running natively in 64 but I have twenty four cores available to me in Logic and even the largest multi-layered orchestral instrument in Kontakt (like those from Sonokinetik) won't touch the 30 gig of ram I have in the Machine. Nor will 50 instances of whatever most CPU hungry component push the 24 cores.

All of this for 2K. I have over 10 Macs across several studios and this set up is by far the most reliable, powerful and trouble free.

Funny to hear everyone talking about the quality of this versus the quality of that - but the reality is that you can't polish a turd. It would just be good to be able to create the biggest turd possible by spending 2K as opposed to 8K and using the 6K on a good Moog synth, or a Neumann Mic or a decent soundcard, mixer or all of the above.

First point....Firewire is a dead standard, even for audio. It would be foolish to believe that a Firewire 800 port in 2015 could be seen as a "pro". Intermediate to advanced level audio interfaces are all moving to thunderbolt, the entry level stuff is still using USB. A converter dongle from TB to Firewire, if someone needs one, can't possibly be seen as such a huge annoyance that one would forgo TB in favor of Firewire.

Second point...Internal hard drive bays are more personal preference than anything else. Do you want your drives inside or outside of your system? Do you want something portable you can easily move, or something that will always stay inside of the system? Remember we are talking about music production scenarios in this thread...session work is rarely started and finished on one system alone. Me personally, I'd rather have external Thunderbolt drives, something as fast or much faster than an internal SATA drive that I can pick up and go.

Third point...The CPU and RAM is user upgradeable on the nMP, just as it is on the cMP. The GPUs I will give you are not, however why would this matter to someone focused on audio production anyway? Kind of stretching it to call it a drawback. Besides, you are limited to what cards you can use inside of a cMP anyway, it's far from plug and play.

Also, I think you are really downplaying the noise, heat, and power consumption points. The last thing I want during a mixing session is to have a loud machine next to me...it's even more important to not track anything with a machine that loud. It is super convenient to not have to worry about which closet you're going to shove your computer in so that your work isn't being disturbed. It's also quite nice to have lower power bills.

I've said it in previous threads, but if you're strapped for cash or have a tight budget, the cMP is a good choice. I just find it hilarious how so many people try to justify choosing a 2010 machine in 2015 because it "does more" or "does better", which often requires you to frankenstein your system to hell and back to get the same level of functionality. It makes sense for people who have already invested in a cMP and want to get the most out of their investment versus buying a new machine altogether...but come on.

 

[davidec]

Anybody using the new Mac Pro (trash can) late 2013-2014 for music production?

I was going to buy a iMac 27" i7 late 2013 but waited to see what the retina iMac could be, but i am now scared of the reports of spinning fan noise and maybe heat problems in the near future?

So now I have iMac 27" i7 late 2013 or new Mac Pro Quad or Hexa-Core to choose from.

Not sure which is the best choice, but I am more in to the Mac pro because of the silent fan and the ability to upgrade SSD, CPU quite easy.

So now is the big question iMac vs nMP?

There is a big price difference but i think that the nMP Hexa-core 4650$ will last a lot longer than the iMac 3800$.

Now I have a old iMac late 2006 and it is still going, but it is to old to use for music production now so i need to buy an new Mac soon.

If I buy the iMac i can save some money, but I think it will only hold for about five or six years, almost impossible to upgrade.

If i buy the nMP Quad it will last three years and then I can upgrade the CPU and extend the lifespan several years.

The Hexa-Core is my safest bet, but i am not sure if I take the right decision because all my money will go to just the Computer.

Which would you choose and why?

I really hope that you guys can give me some good advices here.

First point....Firewire is a dead standard, even for audio. It would be foolish to believe that a Firewire 800 port in 2015 could be seen as a "pro". Intermediate to advanced level audio interfaces are all moving to thunderbolt, the entry level stuff is still using USB. A converter dongle from TB to Firewire, if someone needs one, can't possibly be seen as such a huge annoyance that one would forgo TB in favor of Firewire.

Second point...Internal hard drive bays are more personal preference than anything else. Do you want your drives inside or outside of your system? Do you want something portable you can easily move, or something that will always stay inside of the system? Remember we are talking about music production scenarios in this thread...session work is rarely started and finished on one system alone. Me personally, I'd rather have external Thunderbolt drives, something as fast or much faster than an internal SATA drive that I can pick up and go.

Third point...The CPU and RAM is user upgradeable on the nMP, just as it is on the cMP. The GPUs I will give you are not, however why would this matter to someone focused on audio production anyway? Kind of stretching it to call it a drawback. Besides, you are limited to what cards you can use inside of a cMP anyway, it's far from plug and play.

Also, I think you are really downplaying the noise, heat, and power consumption points. The last thing I want during a mixing session is to have a loud machine next to me...it's even more important to not track anything with a machine that loud. It is super convenient to not have to worry about which closet you're going to shove your computer in so that your work isn't being disturbed. It's also quite nice to have lower power bills.

I've said it in previous threads, but if you're strapped for cash or have a tight budget, the cMP is a good choice. I just find it hilarious how so many people try to justify choosing a 2010 machine in 2015 because it "does more" or "does better", which often requires you to frankenstein your system to hell and back to get the same level of functionality. It makes sense for people who have already invested in a cMP and want to get the most out of their investment versus buying a new machine altogether...but come on.

Whilst I agree with you 100% you have gone on a little bit of a tangent and missed the fine print of the OP. He wants to save money and is hesitant to spend all his money on a nMP. I think for people that can afford a nMP it's a no brainer, but in this instance the cMP is a brilliant option for the OP and gives him spare money to buy something bits that will actually help with quality of production and recording.

As for firewire interfaces not being pro that's just completely misleading. Apogee, Lynx and SSL still make Firewire and USB interfaces alongside their new thunderbolt range. Zero latency can be achieved on USB let alone Firewire and unless your daisy chaining ten of these units then there's little benefit to TB.

 

[fastlanephil]

Whilst I agree with you 100% you have gone on a little bit of a tangent and missed the fine print of the OP. He wants to save money and is hesitant to spend all his money on a nMP. I think for people that can afford a nMP it's a no brainer, but in this instance the cMP is a brilliant option for the OP and gives him spare money to buy something bits that will actually help with quality of production and recording.

As for firewire interfaces not being pro that's just completely misleading. Apogee, Lynx and SSL still make Firewire and USB interfaces alongside their new thunderbolt range. Zero latency can be achieved on USB let alone Firewire and unless your daisy chaining ten of these units then there's little benefit to TB.

I've looked into the refurbished 12-core Mac Pro. There seems to be a small market for taking a used 2009/2010 Mac Pro, cleaning it up and hot rodding it with up to a dual 3.46 6-core. Multi-core processing is finally a standard now for DAW work and the Logic Pro X update last spring brought this to the twelve core Mac Pro. So it does make them an attractive option for those with demanding software but limited means and anything that sounds really good is demanding.

I really shouldn't have to be thinking about this but the iMacs are still using processors from last September with very little gain exspcted for the next generation CPU. So it looks like maybe another 12 to 18 months for a significant upgrade for the iMac.

What happened to Moore's Law?

 

[koyoot]

What happened to Moore's Law?

Died. With the increased costs of producing CPUs. Going from 22 to 14 nm increased the manufacturing cost of CPUs 4 times. Going from 14 to 10 it will increase it another 4-5 times.

That is basically why Intel skipped desktop mainstream market and in future will produce only High profit CPUs for Mobile, NUC and All-In-One segments. And it is why they pull out from Motherboard segements for desktop mainstream CPUs.

If you will want custom build PC, you can have it. Just buy a Xeon.

 

[VirtualRain]

What happened to Moore's Law?

Moore's law simply states that the device count in integrated circuits will double every year. It was later (mis?) stated by some Intel CEO to say that CPU performance would double every 18 months.

The original law is still holding as far as I know. Even the performance doubling every 18 months might be true if you consider the increase in core counts... We're now at 18-cores per CPU, up from 12-cores last year and 6-cores not long before that. So in about a 2 year span core counts have tripled.

The problem is prices for top performing CPUs have gone through the roof from somewhere around $1.2K a couple years ago to $2.5K for last year's 12-core to $4.5K for this years 18 core monster. So computing power per dollar has really leveled off.

 

[fastlanephil]

Moore's law simply states that the device count in integrated circuits will double every year. It was later (mis?) stated by some Intel CEO to say that CPU performance would double every 18 months.

The original law is still holding as far as I know. Even the performance doubling every 18 months might be true if you consider the increase in core counts... We're now at 18-cores per CPU, up from 12-cores last year and 6-cores not long before that. So in about a 2 year span core counts have tripled.

The problem is prices for top performing CPUs have gone through the roof from somewhere around $1.2K a couple years ago to $2.5K for last year's 12-core to $4.5K for this years 18 core monster. So computing power per dollar has really leveled off.

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe weak AMD CPU offerings also puts upward pressure on prices.

I just bought a 2009 5.1, 3.46 12 core from a builder on eBay for less than $2.5K. I guess it's a sign of the times when one resorts to picking though the Mac bone yard.

 

[omnisphere]

I have the 4-Core now and it is a power machine! Love it!

 

[fastlanephil]

I have the 4-Core now and it is a power machine! Love it!

Great!

It sounds like you made a good choice for your immediate needs and for another eight years.

 

[Zwhaler]

I would choose the $2 cable in a heartbeat, as long as it works. Firewire is digital- either the ENTIRE signal gets there, or NOTHING does.

Also loved your comment on a thunderbolt adapter coloring sound. Do you also try each PCI slot to find the best sounding one? lolololololololololololol

You really should just stop talking for awhile there, champ.

I haven't been on here for awhile and just got your quote notification. Was that long enough for you? By the way, the Thunderbolt adapter comment wasn't from me, that was from my producer friend working in my studio. I don't own a Mac with Thunderbolt. User Syncamorea over at Gearslutz wrote this:

"Brisson wrote an article about cables acting as filters and the physics is correct. Cables do in fact effect analog signals because they have impedance and capacitance but as you say, the actual effect can be minimal. If you look at the advancements in high end scientific instrumentation over the last 20 years, a significant component has been in cable design that allows ultra-fast switching to be reliably executed. So I've been involved extensively on the science side and have seen the measurable benefit, for example in the field of accurate mass analysis in mass spectrometry. And due to being in and out of pro audio, I've been in the listening rooms of fanatics that literally spend tens of thousands of dollars on interconnects." Link (yes this discussion is somewhat humorous)

He goes on to basically say that he isn't convinced it is worth it to buy these cables. I made the purchase with the intention of gaining a scientifically measurable benefit, no matter how small. I use quality cables across the board in my studio for the reason stated above. I could probably gain more benefit by buying even higher end converters, but that's an entirely different discussion.

 

[barkmonster]

Look, here is the truth about music production.

People were using PowerPC Power Mac G5's in the early naughties to make some of the best music ever. Some people still use those, cause they still work and are still blistering fast for it.

Some people realised that they can get away with a core i5/i7 series laptop and decided to go with that.

The truth is, music production is not that difficult for a computer. A dual core system with a spinning HDD and a decent amount of ram (8GB) will do it more than fine.

Editing photos and video are way more resource intense than audio.

You can get any Mac Pro 3,1 and up or any core i5/i7 Intel Mac and be fine.

You don't need some brand new computer. You need a creative drive, not gear lust.

What really irks me is these days, the most resource intensive application people run is the web browser. It's pathetic really. Get any Intel Mac, do a fresh install of the OS and the Apps you need and you'll never have an issue.

Some things to consider are the a SSD will make your life much faster and you might want a 27 inch screen for the extra space.

Things that will make music production better are far more expensive and not computer related: You need a good pair of headphones, speakers and audio interfaces. These things will easily cost way more than the computer.

Don't forget, you can't buy good music taste

Take away an as yet invented infinite input audio interface, infinite outboard fx and infinite hardware synths and that 100% host-based system has no upper limit for how much CPU power you could possibly need.

Brian Transeau for example is still using 2 x Quicksilver G4s loaded with TDM cards and an old Mac OS 9 version of Logic because he has a 96 input Apogee system, £1,000s of synths and outboard to use with it and modern Pro Tools systems don't allow you to use Logic as a front end for the hardware.

That's a big difference from trying to run very CPU and RAM intensive software synths and CPU-hungry emulations of valve-state hardware using only the CPU your Mac comes with.

It's as naive an argument as people saying, "you can only play one part at a time anyway, why do you need so many audio tracks", or the ever clueless, "Why don't you just bounce a few tracks down?" (as if you don't still have a limit on CPU resources).

I'd get a used 2009 - 12 Mac Pro off eBay and build it up cheaply. I've seen the hex 3.33Ghz regularly for under £900 used and it beats the current quad nMP on CPU power, plus has all those internal SATA and PCIe slots that neither the nMP or iMac have. I agree with everything you said about going for an older Mac Pro but it's insane to think all people do is track external instrument inputs and claim photo editing is more CPU intensive, it's not!

I bought my current system to use as a tie over after having a G4 for years with the intention of getting a more modern Intel Mac Pro (the older kind) and using the Mac Mini as a media centre after buying a few software upgrades I needed. A used Mac Pro is my only option because they make literally nothing comparable to it on cost, expandability or features.