Notebook Refresh to Be Highlight of WWDC, Non-Retina MacBook Pro to Continue?

[vpro]

patience is virtuous !

It took about nine months until all the remaining 17" MBP were sold off in the UK refurbished store. Nine months for the leftovers. I think the 17" was the computer that everybody wanted, but nobody bought.

Exactly - people TAKE TIME to make PRO decisions sometimes, you got to hand it to apple for making great PRO machines with premium prices, only those who can justify the cost and produce great work with it will consider buying one, and keeping one for a long - long time. You are right. CONsumers have to educate themselves tremendously before making such a PROsumer decision, you are right on, people who just follow fads and want the 'greatest' now will buy WHAT EVER the industry throws at it, which are just scrap metal. When any company sells enough scrap metals, they pool all the extra profit together and develop really incredible PRO machines that you have to PAY for, and it becomes an investment.

Apple has to continually make consumer gadgets now because they are buying time, they are investing in innovation, that takes a LOT OF TIME right? So what ever! Apple couldn't care less about what you think or read about selling best or worst, apple is always ahead of the pack and on top of their game, you just sit back, smile and wait.

As a PROsumer recording artist and designer, I EXPECT nothing less, if I have to wait to spend 4500 plus dollars of my hard earned cash, through my full time self employment in the arts industry, I will for sure wait to pay premium for what I really NEED. I spend that money for the best and I don't expect them to refresh for up to 8 + years if it takes apple that long, because my machine is still making me a LOAD of cash.

It is worth the wait for PROsumer tools by apple. This is why they 'only sold so much' of the 17" MBPs, because it wasn't meant to be trendy, it was their PROstandard and they created that market for the PROs in mind, not the regular CONsumer...

Thank you.

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Lotta idiots in this forum.

Nice one - good of you to point yourself out in a crowd. Pat yourself on your weak back.

 

[dysamoria]

I wonder how many people are still sitting at home watching their old SD TVs versus how many people went out and bought a new HD TV even though they didn't actually need a new TV.

Poor people like me may want one, but not be able to buy one. I'm not going to buy the cheapest piece of crap just to get the HD specification. I also can't afford blu-ray, though I'd really very much like to have that, instead of watching things in crappy streaming compressed crap. I'd love to have blu-ray for data backup for my art and music data. Also too much money.

Eventually I'll be forced to replace my SD CRT monster tv and CRT monster computer monitor (used for gaming and photography), when other devices I use fail to support them. So, yeah, the tech industry creates "demand," but it's not because we see it and want it. It's because the old stuff stops being available for use and all new stuff requires the new formats. You suddenly find that you can't buy, for example, a blu-ray reader/writer for your computer and watch movies in blu-ray... because the anti piracy BS means a CRT/VGA display isn't supported. Before you know it, you're almost a decade out of date because you couldn't afford to keep buying stuff every year or two.

Streaming sucks. The quality is junk OR the playback is junk. Partially because Flash is junk, but also because the connection isn't superb. I live near a relatively large city and my DSL is only just acceptable for general use. Netflix works sometimes, with interruptions part way through. YouTube sucks ass (especially because the piece of crap won't buffer more than five seconds at a time and it won't retain my "use the worst quality" setting unless I log in, and I'm sick of google logins and data collection). There's no fiber available from any provider. Verizon isn't rolling it out. Hasn't been for years. They barely maintain the copper lines. And even the DSL is ridiculously expensive. On top of that, the USA's two service providers are trying to ditch all physical lines for cellular. A foolish act that will leave the USA with the worst data infrastructure. Go read DSLReports news items some time. There's no way streaming-only media is going to take over like this.

 

[mdelvecchio]

This is where Apple needs two product lines. Firstly the cMBP for those of us who work for a living (needing our optical drives and physical ethernet ports, etc), building IT infrastructure. And secondly the rMBP for you 'artistic' types to connect to wifi (using the infrastructure we built) while in Starbucks.

I feel sad for your organization that the IT group doesn't have access to wifi. I do software dev work for enterprise Fortune 100 and 500 corps and we do. Goals, eh?

For hi performance file transfers what stops rMBP users from using the thunderbolt-to-gigbit-ethernet adapter? ignorance? stubbornness?

 

[AppleMark]

Huge storage space is not always that important when you're over 512GB.

Really, for who? I was talking about my requirements.

You should know that SSDs are very expensive, so you shouldn't expect miraculously low prices or the same prices of 10 year old technology. Don't be naive.

Naive? You seem to have missed my point.

I was not expecting low prices, in fact it was you that was stating that others would by the rMBP if it were the same price as the HD version. You just need to bear in mind that will not be the only determining factor.

 

[enigma2118]

Current model price drop...how much do you think?

So with this coming out today, we seem to be getting closer to the possibility. I am looking for a macbook pro right now myself. I expect some people to start selling their used macbooks now before it comes out.

What do you all think the price drop would be when/if the new line comes out?

 

[G4er?]

Also, there is still demand in emerging markets, where Internet penetration isn't advanced, for optical disk drives.

Heck. There is still a market for them here. Let's hope Apple rethinks removing them from all the desktop computers.

 

[rtdunham]

... what with the ios 6 fiasco, as well as the growing expectations for ios to finally catch up with android in the versatility of the ui, they 've shifted the ever shifting teams (because of course hiring people with 150 billion in the bank isn't easy) to ios.


Right now in the os x team there's only the cleaning lady left.

Thank god we've got you to dispense facts when we need them.

Since you know all, can you tell us the cleaning lady's name, too?

 

[iSunrise]

I feel sad for your organization that the IT group doesn't have access to wifi. I do software dev work for enterprise Fortune 100 and 500 corps and we do. Goals, eh?

For hi performance file transfers what stops rMBP users from using the thunderbolt-to-gigbit-ethernet adapter? ignorance? stubbornness?

You're either completely missing the point or don't want to understand what he wanted to tell you. Educate yourself about people that build IT infrastructures and need to change locations constantly with uncertain ways of access in a couple of dozen of companies per month, with the need of direct access to configure networks and various types of systems. You cannot use WLAN for direct access to anything, WLANs even depend on LAN access to configure them. And if you're moving around a lot and don't sit on your ass all day, you stand in front of various systems where you don't want to use adapters, because they are a total pain in the ass.

As a software dev you don't need to care about all of that, since all of your fortune 100 and 500 corps have WLAN access for your needs. But we're not talking about software devs. We're talking about the people that build the infrastructure that you use.

 

[radiologyman]

You're right. 750 GB of flash storage is just overkill and not worth the $700 extra.

Get external USB or network drive if u need space

 

[adder7712]

Has intel even started shipping haswel?

Desktop processors are shipping in June, I think.

 

[skaertus]

Those of us that use DVD's and Ethernet ports DO NOT WANT ADAPTORS!!!! Is it really that difficult to believe that I want these things built into my laptop? This is where Apple's product line is too narrow. Some users want light and thin, the rest of us work for a living and need a proper work tool. We aren't so bothered about the thickness of our laptops, but not having the right ports (when every other manufacturer has them) is just not on.

I understand lots of people don't like Apple's approach. But the fact that Apple's product line is too narrow is seen as a strenght rather than a weakness by most financial analysts. Apple is not changing its way because of that. It's been like that for years, and it's Steve Jobs' touch. He always wanted a computer to be thin, to have very few connections and no user-upgradeable parts.

You may not be bothered by the thickness of your laptop, but Apple certainly is. And you may worry about your computer not having enough connections, but Apple simply wants as few connections as possible.

I personally think that Apple should have more lines of laptops, and provide users with some choices. But Apple just doesn't work this way. You may hate Apple for that, but that's the way things are.

That's why people who wants choice, and wants to open their computers, and want every kind of connection, buys a PC. Especially for work.

 

[macman34]

Thank god we've got you to dispense facts when we need them.

Since you know all, can you tell us the cleaning lady's name, too?

Sure. She's called Sue, she smokes too much and has a bit of drinking habit on the side, she also spits in people's coffees when they are not around. Word is she's sleeping with the janitor who used to be Steve's gardener since way back when he used to park his motorcycle in his villa, pre Lauren days, when he was going out with Joan Baez to dylanize himself.

The janitor is a stand up guy I hear, plus all that smoking Sue does has done wonders for her jaw, so Gary, that's the janitor, keeps his mouth shut, and she sticks around. He reckons nobody really got hurt with a bit of good old saliva in their cups of coffee. And I reckon she's done a pretty good job with the lions, for the money that they pay her at least.

And it's not if 99.999% of the rest of the team shifted over to ios have been doing much better, at least os x is still better than windows, something you can't really say for ios and android. Cook, try missing a Goldman conference for a change and give the woman a pay rise you stingy bastard, or she'll be serving you some really frothy coffee.

Glad I could be of help Dunham.

 

[skaertus]

Just to point out that you don't actually know that. You've read Intel's marketing tripe. Intel regularly claims dramatically increased battery life. It is yet to live up to expectations set. To avoid disappointment, expect a modest increase in battery life, akin to processor speed bump. 10%-15%

In fact, nobody knows that. I'm just believing what Intel is saying, and Intel is saying that Haswell will represent the biggest improvement in battery life in a single generation ever seen in the whole history of processors. I'm believing it because Intel's statement is very bold indeed. If Intel fails to deliver that, it will be a major disappointment. I guess Intel would not dare to state something so boldly just to fail to meet this statement a few months after...

 

[skaertus]

I prefer the standard MBP. I hope he is correct. And my current AIR meets my needs. Retina would be nice, but I don't wish to pay extra for it.

I guess most people are of this opinion. Everybody seems to think retina is nice, but just a few are willing to pay for it.

 

[69650]

Poor people like me may want one, but not be able to buy one. I'm not going to buy the cheapest piece of crap just to get the HD specification. I also can't afford blu-ray, though I'd really very much like to have that, instead of watching things in crappy streaming compressed crap. I'd love to have blu-ray for data backup for my art and music data. Also too much money.

Eventually I'll be forced to replace my SD CRT monster tv and CRT monster computer monitor (used for gaming and photography), when other devices I use fail to support them. So, yeah, the tech industry creates "demand," but it's not because we see it and want it. It's because the old stuff stops being available for use and all new stuff requires the new formats. You suddenly find that you can't buy, for example, a blu-ray reader/writer for your computer and watch movies in blu-ray... because the anti piracy BS means a CRT/VGA display isn't supported. Before you know it, you're almost a decade out of date because you couldn't afford to keep buying stuff every year or two.

Streaming sucks. The quality is junk OR the playback is junk. Partially because Flash is junk, but also because the connection isn't superb. I live near a relatively large city and my DSL is only just acceptable for general use. Netflix works sometimes, with interruptions part way through. YouTube sucks ass (especially because the piece of crap won't buffer more than five seconds at a time and it won't retain my "use the worst quality" setting unless I log in, and I'm sick of google logins and data collection). There's no fiber available from any provider. Verizon isn't rolling it out. Hasn't been for years. They barely maintain the copper lines. And even the DSL is ridiculously expensive. On top of that, the USA's two service providers are trying to ditch all physical lines for cellular. A foolish act that will leave the USA with the worst data infrastructure. Go read DSLReports news items some time. There's no way streaming-only media is going to take over like this.

I sense yours is not a happy lot at the moment my friend.

I agree with you, tech companies create demand by making your current stuff obsolete every few years. They've been pulling that crap for years and nobody says a thing because we all want the latest must have gadget that we can't really afford but buy anyway.

You could always move to the UK. It rains a lot, it's cold even in the summer and we pay well over the odds for most things but the telly is quite good and the pubs are open 24 hours.

 

[69650]

Actually almost all films made in the past fifty years are either 4k or 8k, so the content is there. Streaming will be difficult, requiring 50Mb speeds. Downloading will be easier, but requires no data cap on your service. Each film could be 100gb. Apple doesn't like BR for obvious reasons and will not go that direction.

I have a BR drive in my MP but it takes about 30 minutes to put the film into a format I can view, since there are no reliable BR reading apps for Mac OS.

Apples 4k TV is due in about 5-9 months and will be able to play whatever you hook to it, upscaling all the time. There is a 4k available now for $1200, Sony for $5000, and more to come. My hifi preamp has the ability to upscale video to 4k.

MacPro (new model) will need a video card that has the capability to view and edit 4k video. A modular MacPro should work pretty well.

For me that's the main problem with streaming and downloading tech. They are always going to be behind the curve because the broadband providers will never keep up with the increasing bandwidth requirements.

I've got an average broadband speed and it takes hours to download HD content from iTunes. It's actually quicker to walk to the shop and buy the BluRay instead. It's going to get even worse with 4K films and then 8K films, etc. Watching online streams in the evening just ends up with lots of buffering.

Even if the cable providers did start to invest to roll out 100Mb into your house, the coverage will inevitably be limited and it will cost a fortune. I don't know what the solution is.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Always amazing how much whining is going on about a rumor.

What is clear though is that we all have different needs and use our MBP's in different ways.

It is impossible for any manufacturer to make everybody happy, so there will be a small percentage who will not be able to get the options THEY want from Apple.

My guess is as good as any analysts' and I think Apple will leave 2 MBP lines leftover.

One for tinkerers and one for users who don't want to get into their machines.

From my experience "Les Tinkerables" will be useful much longer , as my current 2007 MBP 17" proves. Some more memory, HD space etc. and that thing is going strong in it's 6th year.

Doubt that will be the case in the future with all retinas, HD removed and no access to memory.

 

[Cubytus]

the macbook pros will be future proof.
fast WIFI ac, SSD with min 768gb or would be happy with the new and cheaper 960gb ssd.

I would like 13' with dedicated grafic card and 16gb ram.

16GB is actually very easy and relatively cheap to add. About $100. Couldn't be happier not to wait for the hard drive to load stuff when I need them.

On the other hand I think Intel hasn't made an excellent job with power consumption of their CPUs. i7 is still dual core only on the 13" (four virtual cores), and I'd take a dedicated gfx card. Not sure though if it would fit in the 13", as it is already quite packed.

Heck. There is still a market for them here. Let's hope Apple rethinks removing them from all the desktop computers.

Here as well, even if I think I could live with an external ODD now my film collection has been stolen.

I understand lots of people don't like Apple's approach. But the fact that Apple's product line is too narrow is seen as a strenght rather than a weakness by most financial analysts. Apple is not changing its way because of that. It's been like that for years, and it's Steve Jobs' touch. He always wanted a computer to be thin, to have very few connections and no user-upgradeable parts.

You may not be bothered by the thickness of your laptop, but Apple certainly is. And you may worry about your computer not having enough connections, but Apple simply wants as few connections as possible.

I personally think that Apple should have more lines of laptops, and provide users with some choices. But Apple just doesn't work this way. You may hate Apple for that, but that's the way things are.

That's why people who wants choice, and wants to open their computers, and want every kind of connection, buys a PC. Especially for work.

There's a difference between "narrow" and "two lines only". Apple wouldn't be hurt having a third line for power users. Especially if the only improvement needed are the internals.

If you want as few connections as possible, you must either go all wireless, which isn't currently possible with the state of technology, or pack the maximum amount of power in a small form factor. You can't currently be small, thin and fast and yet keep every user happy. I just love how my Mac connects to a projector automatically while PC users must still struggle to get theirs to display a picture. Same goes for the high speed connections needed, not everyday but often enough to make them essential.

Just by curiosity I looked at a profesional line HP laptop with essentially the same power and connections as a MBP 13". It was twice as thick, 60% heavier, and had poorer battery life. I can get that power and openness from my MBP.

For me that's the main problem with streaming and downloading tech. They are always going to be behind the curve because the broadband providers will never keep up with the increasing bandwidth requirements.

I've got an average broadband speed and it takes hours to download HD content from iTunes. It's actually quicker to walk to the shop and buy the BluRay instead. It's going to get even worse with 4K films and then 8K films, etc. Watching online streams in the evening just ends up with lots of buffering.

Even if the cable providers did start to invest to roll out 100Mb into your house, the coverage will inevitably be limited and it will cost a fortune. I don't know what the solution is.

It's not Apple's fault that ISPs are dragging their feet into investing their massive profits to upgrade their network and give customers speeds fit for the XXIst century.

 

[Mal67]

Please tell me where you can buy software applications on thumb drives? What Kuo was saying is that in emerging markets they don't have the same level of broadband penetration as in the US so many people still require an optical drive to install software because they don't have the option to download it. External optical drives are all very well but many people prefer to have everything built in on a portable machine.

And of course hanging an external od off your system kind of defeats the whole minimalist ethic that Apple wants us to follow. However for those of us who purchase physical media who find downloading large amounts impracticable, costly, time consuming, unsatisfactory in terms of what is available or for any one of a whole bunch of reasons if you want to keep having the Apple experience that is what you have to do.

 

[maxosx]

the macbook pros will be future proof.

There's not a single computer available today, or in the next several months, that's future proof. That concept is nothing but a fantasy, and a bad one at that. The speed of development is simply too fast to keep up with.

Buy what suits you now, with only one thing in mind. To use it and enjoy it.

Forget looking too far ahead. Trying to insure you have something that will be comparable to the "Latest" six to eight months out is setting yourself up to be disappointed.

 

[vpro]

no future proof for retinas

these are great looking machines and computers but just as soon as they've been released, their problems are countless and still rising. i don't remember the most powerful macbook pros ever released with so many problems so early on and lasting so long???? but mind you it took them several generations to finally get it right, almost.

the only future proof is to make sure your wallet is always packed with loads of cashews...

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the reality is that even though there were "less" 17 inchers sold, very few were returned. the refurbs mainly consisted of built to orders, most people couldn't justify spending additional 500 for them, buyer's remorse and such, but the majority of the refurbs were left over brand spanking new machines they had to put into plain boxes.

with the new line of macbooks, many people are buying them but many more have been returning them, the people spouting stats and stuff, should also release the number of returns, i'm sure there were more returns of late than 17 inchers sold, which means 17 inchers are still on top because those who purchased them are still very - very happy and productive on them.

apple doesn't make powerful - long life machines anymore, they make consumer gadgets - so you keep buying and they keep smiling. hopefully they are putting those excess profits to great innovations and development of even more powerful computers.

so keep buying the new trendy retinas and IOS devices, it means the PROSumers will eventually get their powerful 17" MBPs again with or without retina display, we just want to see them back on the menu boys.

 

[EwanMcTeagle]

Thanks. I just called and talked to an apple store employee. They of course have no idea or won't hint even if they do. He did say that his opinion is that if the 15" cMBP is still around, the current base model is 4gb of ram with maximum apple upgrade of 8gb. He feels that they'd probably make 8gb the base and 16gb the upgrade. Since I already ordered it with the 4gb and upgraded myself to the 16gb from OWC, it would be moot. He also felt that they'd probably have a slightly higher processor speed but that wouldn't be too noticeable. I don't care about HD's as I can upgrade that down the road as I see fit.

The only concern is if they have a 15" cMBP with the new processor. I don't know how much faster it would be than the current gen, but that's the only thing I would be bummed about being a month or two late in regards to having.

No problem. From what I've read (also here on MRumors) the speed bump on Haswell will be something of about 15%, but that's in marketing figures, so... go figure

 

[SnoFlo]

Just by curiosity I looked at a profesional line HP laptop with essentially the same power and connections as a MBP 13". It was twice as thick, 60% heavier, and had poorer battery life. I can get that power and openness from my MBP.

Uh, that hasn't been my experience; at least with Dell's comparable Precision Mobile Workstation line. I bought the M6700 (w/ IPS LCD) to replace my 2011 17" MacBook Pro and it has been an eye-opener, especially to an Apple laptop user for the past 15 years like me.

 

[DesertEagle]

The reasons given are not enough for Apple to discontinue the cMBP, and I hope they will keep it.

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the macbook pros will be future proof.
fast WIFI ac, SSD with min 768gb or would be happy with the new and cheaper 960gb ssd.

I would like 13' with dedicated grafic card and 16gb ram.

How do you define "future proof"? How many years ahead?

 

[nolegirl01]

What do you guys think will be included in the new Retina Macbook pros? I just bought my 15'' rMBP back in August and I am very curious what changes they are making to it....