Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Pentalobe Screwdriver

Tomorrow

Tomorrow

macrumors 604
Mar 2, 2008
7,160
1,365
Always a day away
Texas_Toast said:
According to Wikipedia, this is what a pentalobe screw looks like...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_security_screw

To me it looks like a cloud or a flower.

So why is it when I look online for pentalobe screwdrivers most of them look like this...

http://www.smartphoneparts.com/product/SPPIP-2466.html

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/P5-Pentalob...187961?hash=item5687f54e39:g:D4gAAOSw-RRXDKUL
Click to expand...

One's pointed, one's rounded. Aside from that, are they really any different?
 
Texas_Toast

Texas_Toast

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 6, 2016
1,718
329
Texas
Tomorrow said:
One's pointed, one's rounded. Aside from that, are they really any different?
Click to expand...

So can you please help me find me a rounded screwdriver on eBay...

Everything I see called "pentalobe" looks like a star with pointy edges.

I assume these will not work.
 
A

ApfelKuchen

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2012
4,334
3,011
Between the coasts
Texas_Toast said:
So can you please help me find me a rounded screwdriver on eBay...

Everything I see called "pentalobe" looks like a star with pointy edges.

I assume these will not work.
Click to expand...

The "official" pentalobe has curves, not straight lines/points. I'm guessing this has to do with patents - the star-shaped screwdriver has been designed to fit within the dimensions of the pentalobe screw head, without matching the shape.

Based on long experience with other proprietary screw heads (I have none with Pentalobe), I would not use the star-shaped screwdriver. It will be applying most of the torque at the points of the star, with less force distributed elsewhere (as those straight sides will probably not contact the screw at all). This greatly increases the possibility that the screw head will be damaged.

The even distribution of force is one of the prime considerations behind fastener head design - the larger the contact surface area, the less force is applied to any part of the relatively soft metal of the screw head. The more precise the fit between tool and fastener, ditto.

Added: Let me add that I'd be leery of either of the screwdrivers you linked - yeah, the price is low, but note the descriptive text for the cloud-shaped pentalobe -
This tool is not for repeated dis-assembly and reassembly of your iPhone 5 and iPhone 4/4S Pentalobe screws.
Click to expand...
They also recommend buying Phillips screws as replacements... not necessarily a bad recommendation, but it raises a suspicion that this screwdriver may damage the pentalobe screw heads. Personally, I'd go to ifixit.com and spend the extra money for a proper pentalobe. A well-made tool is a joy to own, and can pay substantial dividends in quality of workmanship.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JackRoch, Texas_Toast and Mr_Brightside_@
Texas_Toast

Texas_Toast

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 6, 2016
1,718
329
Texas
ApfelKuchen said:
The "official" pentalobe has curves, not straight lines/points. I'm guessing this has to do with patents - the star-shaped screwdriver has been designed to fit within the dimensions of the pentalobe screw head, without matching the shape.

Based on long experience with other proprietary screw heads (I have none with Pentalobe), I would not use the star-shaped screwdriver. It will be applying most of the torque at the points of the star, with less force distributed elsewhere (as those straight sides will probably not contact the screw at all). This greatly increases the possibility that the screw head will be damaged.

The even distribution of force is one of the prime considerations behind fastener head design - the larger the contact surface area, the less force is applied to any part of the relatively soft metal of the screw head. The more precise the fit between tool and fastener, ditto.
Click to expand...

I agree, but what is the solution then? :(
 
Texas_Toast

Texas_Toast

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 6, 2016
1,718
329
Texas
ApfelKuchen said:
Personally, I'd go to ifixit.com and spend the extra money for a proper pentalobe. A well-made tool is a joy to own, and can pay substantial dividends in quality of workmanship.
Click to expand...

ifixit's website doesn't show any pictures of their screwdriver head.

From what I can tell, they also only offer a pointed star design.

That and I have a gripe against ifixit... They once asked me to fax my driver's license for an order under $50 and so I will not be making any purchases from them. I live in Texas damn it! Screw ifixit.
 
G

Gjwilly

macrumors 68040
May 1, 2011
3,216
701
SF Bay Area
You're comparing a simplified 2D birds-eye view with an actual 3D object.
A star with 5 sharp points is wrong but 5 perfect little arcs is also wrong.
That's just not how it works in the real world.
 
Texas_Toast

Texas_Toast

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 6, 2016
1,718
329
Texas
Gjwilly said:
You're comparing a simplified 2D birds-eye view with an actual 3D object.
A star with 5 sharp points is wrong but 5 perfect little arcs is also wrong.
That's just not how it works in the real world.
Click to expand...

In post #10, it was *implied* that based on the two links that I provided that the screwdriver from Wiha is NOT a pentalobe...

So I wasn't wrong.

I'm still waiting on you to provide me a link showing me a true pentalobe screwdriver.

Based on my research, nobody makes one except maybe Apple themselves...
 
Texas_Toast

Texas_Toast

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 6, 2016
1,718
329
Texas
Texas_Toast

Texas_Toast

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 6, 2016
1,718
329
Texas
JohnDS said:
If you are going to continue to be rude, I don't know why anyone would help you.
[doublepost=1478829847][/doublepost]You might read the reviews here: https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00GY8VQQE/ref=cm_cr_dp_syn_footer?k=Wiha 26794 Precision Pentalobe Screwdriver Set (PL1-PL6)&showViewpoints=1
Click to expand...

The reviews don't tell anything about my concerns...

And it appears that @Gjwilly also doesn't think those screwdrivers are the same as a true (flowery) pentalope pattern...
 
J

JohnDS

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2015
1,183
249
Perhaps Gjwilly can clarify his comments. I did not read them to mean that. The 47 reviews on Amazon of the Wiha screwdrivers are almost universally excellent, for instance :

"Yes they are probably the most expensive pentalobe drivers on Amazon. But these fit the screws perfectly. They are forged in an accurate shape for the screws. (Some drivers have star shapes instead of the pentalobe shapes.)"
​
and

"Pro:
+ Real Pentelobe drivers.
+ Fits the screws perfectly. I don't need to worry about striping these screws. Other sets or drivers include a '5-star' that have have play to them. I can definitely see myself striping these screws considering the amount of torque I had to apply to loosen these.
+ Apple stores use these drivers. If they're good enough for Apple, they're good enough for me."
​
and

"These are the absolute best drivers for Apple and Mac products on the market. yes they are pricey but if you do a lot of tech work like me you will NOT be stripping screws like with other drivers! Super products!"
​
The only real complaints are about the price.
 
G

Gjwilly

macrumors 68040
May 1, 2011
3,216
701
SF Bay Area
Trying this one more time.
If you took your Wikipedia drawing and created a screwdriver tip that perfectly matched it you'd have a hard to use, very impractical tool. The screwdriver would only work if rotated to the precise angle so that the lobes on the driver aligned with the lobes on the screw. You'd also have to insert the driver at an exactly 90-degree angle or the edges of the lobes would hang up and you'd either damage the tool or damage the screw.
What you see from Wiha is the real world example of a driver designed to fit the pentalobe screw easily and without damage to the screw or the driver.
The cheaper versions with the 5 sharp points will quickly deform or damage the screws.
Apple might have a driver that more closely matches the Wikipedia image on an assembly line somewhere where the driver is automated and the parts are held stationary but I highly doubt it.
The Apple tech in the back of the Apple Store is using a tool that matches the Wiha.
 
A

ApfelKuchen

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2012
4,334
3,011
Between the coasts
Texas_Toast said:
Link?

When I looked at their screwdrivers online, they are all "star" tips... :(

Compare the patterns of these two...

https://www.amazon.com/Wiha-26794-Precision-Pentalobe-Screwdriver/dp/B00GY8VQQE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_security_screw

They don't match...
Click to expand...

As noted, it's not likely that they could match precisely - there always has to be a bit of "play." In this case, the only apparent deviation from the theoretical is that the 5 "points" don't taper to sharp points. They've been squared-off and chamfered, which is likely necessary, both to do less damage to the screw head and to aid insertion/removal. However, the recesses are curved in a manner that would seem to match the curves of the screw head.

Effectively, the Wiha bit is the opposite of the 5-pointed star design - there will be broad contact with most of the screw head, lacking only contact at the points.
 
DeltaMac

DeltaMac

macrumors G5
Jul 30, 2003
13,480
4,411
Delaware
tl;dr
If you buy a pentalobe driver that is advertised to be the correct type used in a Mac, then you will be good (doesn't really matter what the shape of the driver head is, flower/star, as long as it works.) Get the tool from a reliable source, and you will be good to go.
(post #19 is good, too)
(I like the Wiha tool, Wiha knows hand tools.)
Ideally, the "flower-type" shape will best fit the pentalobe, as it is designed as a security screw, and has tiny "ramps" as part of the screw design. The "star" design is possibly not quite right, but will remove/tighten the pentalobe screws perfectly, as long as the head size is correct for the screw.
 
Texas_Toast

Texas_Toast

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 6, 2016
1,718
329
Texas
JohnDS said:
Perhaps Gjwilly can clarify his comments. I did not read them to mean that. The 47 reviews on Amazon of the Wiha screwdrivers are almost universally excellent, for instance :

"Yes they are probably the most expensive pentalobe drivers on Amazon. But these fit the screws perfectly. They are forged in an accurate shape for the screws. (Some drivers have star shapes instead of the pentalobe shapes.)"
​
and

"Pro:
+ Real Pentelobe drivers.
+ Fits the screws perfectly. I don't need to worry about striping these screws. Other sets or drivers include a '5-star' that have have play to them. I can definitely see myself striping these screws considering the amount of torque I had to apply to loosen these.
+ Apple stores use these drivers. If they're good enough for Apple, they're good enough for me."
​
and

"These are the absolute best drivers for Apple and Mac products on the market. yes they are pricey but if you do a lot of tech work like me you will NOT be stripping screws like with other drivers! Super products!"
​
The only real complaints are about the price.
Click to expand...

I didn't read all of the reviews, but they do sound positive.

My concern above was that after looking at the same link you provided for the screwdriver, it didn't look like it matched the actual shape of the true pentalobe screw that Apple uses.

(If you search online, a lot of places call Torq and the star design "pentalobe" which is not only confusing, but deceptive.)

If the screwdriver works, I guess it doesn't matter what it looks like or is called, but based on my research yesterday, I was becoming very disappointed with the search results I saw.
[doublepost=1478884481][/doublepost]
Gjwilly said:
Trying this one more time.
If you took your Wikipedia drawing and created a screwdriver tip that perfectly matched it you'd have a hard to use, very impractical tool. The screwdriver would only work if rotated to the precise angle so that the lobes on the driver aligned with the lobes on the screw. You'd also have to insert the driver at an exactly 90-degree angle or the edges of the lobes would hang up and you'd either damage the tool or damage the screw.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree.

Gjwilly said:
What you see from Wiha is the real world example of a driver designed to fit the pentalobe screw easily and without damage to the screw or the driver.
Click to expand...

Okay.

Gjwilly said:
The cheaper versions with the 5 sharp points will quickly deform or damage the screws.
Click to expand...

Agreed.


Gjwilly said:
Apple might have a driver that more closely matches the Wikipedia image on an assembly line somewhere where the driver is automated and the parts are held stationary but I highly doubt it.
Click to expand...

Okay.


Gjwilly said:
The Apple tech in the back of the Apple Store is using a tool that matches the Wiha.
Click to expand...

Okay.
 
oneMadRssn

oneMadRssn

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,990
14,044
I own the iFixit kit, and I can confirm the pentalobe screwdrivers are rounded flower-shaped tips. I have also used both sizes to open various iPhones and Macbooks. They work very well.

Avoid the cheapo screw-drivers from Amazon and ebay. The tolerances are not so good, so you risk stripping the screws. Also, they are very soft, so the driver head gets worn out after only a few screws.
 
Texas_Toast

Texas_Toast

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 6, 2016
1,718
329
Texas
oneMadRssn said:
I own the iFixit kit, and I can confirm the pentalobe screwdrivers are rounded flower-shaped tips. I have also used both sizes to open various iPhones and Macbooks. They work very well.

Avoid the cheapo screw-drivers from Amazon and ebay. The tolerances are not so good, so you risk stripping the screws. Also, they are very soft, so the driver head gets worn out after only a few screws.
Click to expand...

If all of these manufacturers would have a close up (macro) shot of their screwdriver tips, then I wouldn't have needed to start this thread... :rolleyes:

I assume that any of these kits would be the same as what @Gjwilly and others recommended on Amazon, right?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...+Pentalobe+Screwdriver+Set+(PL1-PL6)&_sacat=0
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom