PowerMac G5's...what speed bumps can be expected?

[pianodude123]

future

Now, now, no need to get testy.
I thought spam was heavily processed 'meat'.

The generally expected bump will be dual 3.0GHz, with the rare rumour of a 3.2GHz processor. The 3.2 isn't very likely tho, unless IBM has made significant progress in boosting yields.

I like your joke and everything...but you people have to learn that there might be dual 20 GHz someday...it is all a matter of time. I recently called apple and they didnt expect a price break in the PM until late june...either that or they are coming out with a new generation. Powermac g6 will not come out until next year(late)

 

[pianodude123]

DL superdrive

16x DL SuperDrive

That's another reason I've been waiting, the DL writing SD. So that when the media comes down within the next year my SD is ready to go. No buying a DL external or internal and doing a swap. Granted it's not comlicated to do but I'm lazy.

The next thing would be how long before the DL SuperDrives hit the PowerBooks?

The dual layer superdrive will ship with all 2005 models of the apple computers. That is the fact. Now, needless to say if you buy one now, and they dont ship your's with a DL, thats fine, but it will be shipping within the next few months

 

[kirk26]

You may need to work on your sentence structure... Aren't one word answers considered spam?

Anyway, I'm hoping for 3.0GHz G5s by mid year so that the iMac can get some sort of upgrade too.

3.1

 

[awesomebase]

Not Apples to Apples (or PCs)

I'm hoping for a PowerMac lineup that will make me buy one.

Right now I'm in an interesting position. I have a perfectly good and well maintained Windows XP desktop. It's plenty fast, I can get all my work done with it, but somehow I just prefer working on my 15" PowerBook G4 1.25 GHz. Unfortunately, the PowerBook is always mobile with me, meaning I can't switch to it then depend on it not to have an accident and leave me without the use of my main machine, and it's a bit too slow for me to use for all of my work. There's nothing wrong with my current setup, but I want to switch my primary machine because I'm just more productive working in Mac OS. Unfortunately, there's nothing available that I can justify buying at the moment.

I wanted to like the Mac mini, I really really did. I even ordered one. Sadly, when I had the chance to play with a 1.42 GHz 512 MB demo unit before my order for the same came in (three weeks past the initial four week estimate) I was unimpressed by the complete lack of difference compared to my PowerBook. I realise it should only be about 15% faster at most, but side-by-side the two machines felt exactly the same. I cancelled my order, half because I was getting sick of being brushed off whenever I called to check on my incredibly late order with no updated ETAs, and half because of the lackluster performance compared to what I already have and consider to be too slow.

So, now, I'm looking at the other product lines. The eMac and iMac won't do; I have a good display already, I need to be able to use a real Windows XP desktop from time to time so I can't get rid of it, I have no desk space for another display, and I bought a nice KVM switch just so I don't have to play musical chairs. Okay, so I'm down to the PowerMacs.

The PowerMacs. My desktop has an Athlon XP 2500+ CPU, which runs at 1.87 GHz. Ballpark, then, if I get a 1.8 GHz PowerMac G5 then I'll reproduce what I already have, except with a junk graphics card and cripped expansion, for $2000. Hmm. I don't have $2000 to spend on a machine that's as fast as a machine that I'm already outgrowing. I can't justify it.

If I get a dual 1.8 GHz machine, then I'll get a machine that's about 50% faster than my current machine for $2700. Right, I can justify $2000 for a complete system replacement that gives me that much of a performance increase, but not $2700. And I would still get a junk graphics card and cripped expansion. I'd have to spend another $750 to get a graphics card that's as good as what I have in my Windows desktop. $3500 is out of the question for a 50% increase in performance!

If I get a dual 2.0 GHz machine, then I'll get a machine that's about 70% faster than my current machine for $3300. Blink blink. That's getting into the major bucks category. At least the expansion wouldn't be crippled, but it's $750 on top of that to replace the graphics card leaving the total at $4050. I could buy a perfectly good car for that price!

And forget the dual 2.5 GHz. I mean, it's not like I don't have enough money to buy one squirreled away in savings, but I just can't justify dropping that kind of money on a computer.

So, what does that mean for me? It means that I want to buy a high end iMac G5, except without a display, and without it ending up being a Mac mini. That kind of money I can justify spending on switching from a working computer to another one just for some intangible OS benefits, even if the performance isn't as good as the system being replaced. More than that, though, and I'll want some serious bang for the buck.

I guess this all means I'll just have to wait, yet again, for a product that I can buy and be happy buying.

Well, I'm glad that you are considering the move from an XP machine to OS X, it was something I did over 4 years ago and I'm enjoying the benefits! I'm going to try to state this without being offensive, but, you're making the very same mistake that virtually all PC users make. That is comparing processor speeds. Let me put it to you another way. Think of the processor speed as one part of a sophisticated equation that needs to be resolved. There is no doubt it has impact on the performance of the computer system, but what you're missing more than that is how all the pieces fit together.
I suggest that you look at the Apple site and review the G5 architecture and see how everything interacts. It will give you a much better perspective on why it is a much faster and more efficient processor.
Do you ever wonder why the servers you see online from Dell and HP have processors running between 1GHz and 2GHz while desktops are easily twice that? It is because the architecture that goes into those processors is much more efficient and powerful than the desktop versions.
There are things like the FSB, L1, L2, and L3 cache amounts, the number of steps required to complete a calculation, floating-point performance, its connection with memory, hard drives, and the OS.
If you can understand these concepts, than you will see things in a more realistic light and will be able to compare things with a more unbiased eye.
For my part, my dual 1.8GHz machine is more than capable of running two dozen programs that are inherently processor intensive all at the same time without any kind of staggering or lag. I would NEVER be able to do that on my XP machine. Never mind that it gets bogged down just getting email from Outlook or connecting to my VPN. That is not to say that it is not a powerful machine. The problem is that my antivirus and spam-blocking utilities eat up so much of the power the machine has available. Add to that the dozens of spyware programs that are constantly being attached and removed by the system and it is no wonder that the machine runs much slower.
Specifications are limited by how they perform in the real world. I'm willing to bet that you can get any G5 machine that Apple has and you will be able to do all of your work in a timely, productive manner. You don't even have to worry about performance hits, even the hard drives are Serial ATA. As for the video card, unless you work with AutoCad 24/7, I wouldn't worry about it. For games, get an XBox or Playstation, it costs $150 for that, that is 1/3 of the price of any good video card for the PC or Mac, and it frees up your computer to do real work.

 

[howard]

a line of powermacs 3.0 2.5 and 2.0 would be spectacular. I just hope they come out before the end of the semester as thats when I plan on getting one.

In some ways I would prefer price drops to big speed bumps. If I could end up affording the top of the line model that would rock, but where there at now I can barely stretch to the middle model.

 

[gangst]

Yea I'm well hoping for dual 3.0, as I have £4000 burning a hole in my pocket and dont ant to buy a 2.5 to see them get updated quickly

 

[advocate]

Not quite. The FSB on the Athlon is 333MHz, while the PM 1.8GHz(single) has a 600MHz FSB. That's more important than clockspeed and would make a difference.

Well, I did say ballpark. Also, my A7N8X does dual channel memory, closing the gap by quite a bit.

You also stated that it'd cost you $750 to upgrade to a comparable graphics card as in your PC.

Canadian dollars, including 14% sales tax.

 

[DickArmAndHarT]

Video

I bought my dual 1.8GHz G5 (with no PCI-X and only 4 memory slots) and it is by far the most powerful machine I've owned. I'm hard pressed to think of any really good reason to get anything faster. I've literally done the following, all at the same time: 1) play a DVD movie, 2) scan photos on my Epson scanner, 3) buy and play music from iTunes, 4) have my .Mac mail, gmail, and Entourage mail all open, 5) run iPhoto and iChat 6) run Filemaker Pro 7 and Omni Graffle. There are a good half-dozen other programs and utilities I had running as well with not even a hiccup in the system. I have 1GB of RAM installed. I can't even fathom what the extra speed would do for me at this point. In fact, I would probably rather do one or both of the following instead:
1) get the new ATI X800 video card and/or 2) add 1GB to 2GB more of RAM.
I did swap out my hard drive for two 300GB Serial ATAs, but other than that, this machine is a dream! And I bought it used direct from Apple for a great price! You can't go wrong with these machines, I think they're fantasticly powerful! Have fun and don't worry so much about the speeds... there are people running 400MHz G3 towers and doing everything they need to do on their systems.

Sure there amazingly fast but..when working with video and photoshop and after effects at the same time..Need to be really pushing the edge .time is money..not that i do anything business like on my pb..but i will..gotta graduate high school first
n

 

[advocate]

Well, I'm glad that you are considering the move from an XP machine to OS X, it was something I did over 4 years ago and I'm enjoying the benefits! I'm going to try to state this without being offensive, but, you're making the very same mistake that virtually all PC users make. That is comparing processor speeds.

I'm going to try to state this without being offensive, but you failed. You must have started writing vague references to stuff you don't understand but have seen other people mention before reading the part where I said that I own and love a PowerBook. That's a Mac, by the way. You don't need to treat me like a luser who's thinking about switching because he likes the wallpapers better here. I'm getting real work done on the PowerBook and I know its benefits and limitations well.

Never mind that it gets bogged down just getting email from Outlook or connecting to my VPN. That is not to say that it is not a powerful machine. The problem is that my antivirus and spam-blocking utilities eat up so much of the power the machine has available. Add to that the dozens of spyware programs that are constantly being attached and removed by the system and it is no wonder that the machine runs much slower.

In the 19 years that I have been using computers, starting with an Atari ST and moving through DOS 2.11, Windows 3.0, OS/2 v2, (MacOS) System 6, and Linux kernel 0.96, and others, and newer versions of the same, I have only once had a piece of malware on any of my computers and that's when I wrote a virus while working my way through a book on how they work. Did you read the part where I said my current desktop is clean? I run HouseCall once every blue moon to verify that I still don't have any viruses, I run Spyboy S&D and Adaware once in a blue moon to verify that I still don't have any spyware. If your Windows XP machine has that many problems, then I suggest that you spend some time to learn about how computers work and take your head out of the Apple propaganda.

 

[acedickson]

Well, I did say ballpark. Also, my A7N8X does dual channel memory, closing the gap by quite a bit.
Canadian dollars, including 14% sales tax.

Ah, Canada eh.

 

[nek]

my estimates are similar to carletonmusic's but with a bit more variation between the models. the models ARE in $500 increments ya know.

differences are in bold

2.0 Ghz G5 (single);
256MB RAM (4GB capacity - same as the current SP 1.8)
80GB HD;
8x DL SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra

2.0 Ghz G5 (dual);
512MB RAM
160GB HD;
16x DL SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra

2.5 Ghz G5 (dual);
512MB RAM
160GB HD;
16x DL SuperDrive
ATI 9600XT

2.8 Ghz G5 (dual);
512MB RAM
250GB HD; or 160GB in conjunction with $100 price cut on the top model
16x DL SuperDrive
ATI 9800XT

no matter what happens... i look forward to a 2.5ghz dualie refurb for $1999, 2 months after the new models start shipping. mmmm, that'd be tasty

I think that everyone is being too pessimistic in their predictions. I would be very surprised/disappointed if even the iMac continued to use the GeForce FX 5200 Ultra in its next update. I expect better for the Power Mac. I also expect a minimum of 512MB RAM in all new Macs this year.

I really don't know what to expect for speed, but if this design is real, then I'd be happy.

 

[daveL]

I think that everyone is being too pessimistic in their predictions. I would be very surprised/disappointed if even the iMac continued to use the GeForce FX 5200 Ultra in its next update. I expect better for the Power Mac. I also expect a minimum of 512MB RAM in all new Macs this year.

I really don't know what to expect for speed, but if this design is real, then I'd be happy.

Yes, that would be nice. Thanks for the link!

 

[vtprinz]

I don't care what the specs of the new machines are anymore, I just want to buy without feeling like I'm shelling out $2500 on old equipment.

I don't NEED the computer right now, but I know I've missed out on months of enjoyment by playing the waiting game. I think if I bought a PM in january I'd feel fine even if they were updated tomorrow. But now that I've waiting this long, I'd be really upset if I caved in and bought AND THEN they upgraded.

I just wish we had some tangible rumors about what sort of time frame we're looking at. 2-3 weeks? 2-3 months? Longer?

 

[cwright]

16x DL SuperDrive

My dual 2.0 G5 came with the Pioneer 117D, which is actually a Pioneer 108 16x DL Superdrive. All you need to do is run the firmware hack and you unlock 16x burning speeds and DL support! It works great, I'm burning DVDs in 3 minutes at 16x.

I suspect all of the G5s will be shipping with this same drive until they release the updates when they will actually advertise it as a feature instead of crippling the drive

 

[BornAgainMac]

My dual 2.0 G5 came with the Pioneer 117D, which is actually a Pioneer 108 16x DL Superdrive. All you need to do is run the firmware hack and you unlock 16x burning speeds and DL support! It works great, I'm burning DVDs in 3 minutes at 16x.

I have a Pioneer 106D so I guess I am out of luck. Hopefully I can swap it out for Pioneer 108 and still be able to use iDVD. 4X is just too slow.

 

[cwright]

I have a Pioneer 106D so I guess I am out of luck. Hopefully I can swap it out for Pioneer 108 and still be able to use iDVD. 4X is just too slow.

Once the computer recognises the drive as a Pioneer 108 (or in your case if you swap in a new 108 drive) it will work immediately in Toast, but you have to run a small app called Patchburn in order to make it work with the iApps.

However, this is a quick and painless task. Only takes a second.

you could probably get an internal 108 drive for around $100 too, which isnt bad at all considering the speed improvements

Good luck

 

[JOD8FY]

Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, but I would think the new PM's would come standard with 128MB VRAM. My reasoning is because of the iMac. I hope Apple will give it 128MB VRAM in it's next revision, but there is no way that this would be done before the PM's get it. After all, the iMacs have been at 64MB VRAM for quite a bit of time. Also, I think that the new PM's will have 512MB RAM standard across the line.

Most likely though, it's just wishful thinking .

JOD8FY

 

[ziwi]

Since no PM's have been upgraded for the last ~9 months, I am beginning to think a slight redesign - at least to the innards - could this be the calm before the 970MP is released? And if it is would they still have dual configurations? Example: would they have a dual 970MP or just a single since it is dual core - is there a benefit for dual dual cores? the MP requires a modified mobo so maybe that is why we wait - it is not a G6 - but an updated G5...if Apple did get prototypes in August as thinksecret suggests - this may soon be a reality - if it is would Apple wait to release them prior to the WWDC or wait for the dog and pony show?

This next update will be interesting.

 

[vtprinz]

where are the rumors?

We haven't seen a single mention of powermacs on macrumors, appleinsider, or thinksecret since at least december, maybe november. Isn't there any news floating around?

(MOSR has posted some things, but they're too unreliable, not to mention, all they seem to talk about now is if CELL processors will go into the powermac, and if Apple will release a new line above the powermacs, the "promacs")

 

[paulsonn]

Waiting for other shoe to drop...

I'm in the same situation as vtprinz--I've been ready to buy a new PM for months, but I'm afraid as soon as I plunk down my money, Apple will introduce the new PM's with faster . I was hoping that Steve would introduce new PM's at MacWorld in January, but it didn't happen. Sometimes in the past, Apple has introduced new models just after MW, but that didn't happen either. I am tired of playing the waiting game.

One thought to those who have predicted 3.0 MHz PM's--aren't we reaching a point of diminishing returns? 3.0 is only a few %-age points faster than a 2.5, and I'm wondering if most mortals would even notice a difference. I've assumed, and others have suggested as much here, that if one were buying a PM now, buy the 2.0 because the speed improvement between it and the 2.5 just isn't all that significant in real world use, plus you don't have to worry about all that plumbing going amiss in the 2.5 liquid-cooled machine.

Like vtprinz, I'm torn between just saying to heck with it and buying a 2.0, or waiting, and waiting, and waiting...

 

[rmac]

Refurbished Power Mac G5

Anyone else notice how many Power Mac G5 models (all?) are in the refurbished section right now? Don't know if it means anything....

 

[vtprinz]

Anyone else notice how many Power Mac G5 models (all?) are in the refurbished section right now? Don't know if it means anything....

There are quite a bit right now, but I can't see that meaning anything. A price drop on refurb models would mean something, but just having a lot of them doesn't (I don't think).

 

[jbrjake]

Anyone else notice how many Power Mac G5 models (all?) are in the refurbished section right now? Don't know if it means anything....

I've been obsessively checking the Apple store every day for a few weeks now. (Pocket. Money. Hole. Burning.)

It seems like once or twice a week, they refresh the refurb list with a full slew of PMac models--hell, once or twice lately I've actually seen one of the old PCI-X 1.8 GHz models, but they get snapped up right quick. Then each day, the list dwindles a bit. Every time, I hope it means new PowerMacs are coming. And every time, I am wrong

 

[jiggie2g]

Not quite. The FSB on the Athlon is 333MHz, while the PM 1.8GHz(single) has a 600MHz FSB. That's more important than clockspeed and would make a difference.

You also stated that it'd cost you $750 to upgrade to a comparable graphics card as in your PC. What GPU do you have in that machine? It's only a $500 upgrade to the 6800 Ultra DDL, $250 under your calculations. You'd only be able to take advantage of that GPU ith some serious video editing/creation. Plus, you'd need a 30inch Cinema Display or similar HD display, $3000+ n top of the PM.

The PC is close to the PM single 1.8 but not quite.

That Asus A7N8X MB is an NForce 2 w/ Soundstorm and i would say with some slight overclocking he can out perform any G4 or low end single cpu G5.

1. That Athlon 2500+ runs at 1.83ghz but can easily OC to 2.4-2.5ghz just by increasing the mulitplier.

2. His 333 FSB can be increased to 400Mhz+(200x2) in the bios.

3. His MB uses real a DDR bus not G4 167Mhz crap w/ fake DDR.

I have a DFI NFII Ultra Infinity MB with an Athlon XP-M 2400+@2.4ghz 400mhz FSB and I will take the Pepsi Challenge with any of that G4 or low end G5 crap.

well i don't know what the why u need to spend all that money on a Dual Link Video card. waste of money if u ask me.

i think if u just do the overclock , get some Corsair Value ram DDR400 512X2
, an SATA HD and Geforce 6600GT you'll be good , plus u can wait for that 24in 16:10 Dell Ultra Sharp HD 1900x1200 Monitor for like $1200.

P.S. having trouble picking a video card here's something to look at

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/radeon-x800xl/index.x?pg=3

Personally the X800XL (90-95% of the X800XT Performance for $200 less) is my card of choice I will be picking one up tommorow at compusa , but it's PCIe (good thing i got my DFI Lanparty UT NF4 Ultra-D). AGP is expected soon but if yu can't wait the Leadtek 6600Gt is an excellent card for the money.

 

[acedickson]

That Asus A7N8X MB is an NForce 2 w/ Soundstorm and i would say with some slight overclocking he can out perform any G4 or low end single cpu G5.

1. That Athlon 2500+ runs at 1.83ghz but can easily OC to 2.4-2.5ghz just by increasing the mulitplier.

2. His 333 FSB can be increased to 400Mhz+(200x2) in the bios.

3. His MB uses real a DDR bus not G4 167Mhz crap w/ fake DDR.

I have a DFI NFII Ultra Infinity MB with an Athlon XP-M 2400+@2.4ghz 400mhz FSB and I will take the Pepsi Challenge with any of that G4 or low end G5 crap.

well i don't know what the why u need to spend all that money on a Dual Link Video card. waste of money if u ask me.

i think if u just do the overclock , get some Corsair Value ram DDR400 512X2
, an SATA HD and Geforce 6600GT you'll be good , plus u can wait for that 24in 16:10 Dell Ultra Sharp HD 1900x1200 Monitor for like $1200.

OC would definitely help performance I'm speaking stock only. Personally I'm going for a Dual over the single anyways. Unless, they releade a single dual-core PM.