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Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
I most definitely understand what you're saying. However had the ios8 debacle not happened and they would have included 2GB of RAM the iPhone 6 probably would have beaten the S6 In most benchmarks. It already beats it in some Benchmarks as it is.

It doesn't matter to me who beats who in benchmarks. I'm selfish and only interested in my own self interest.

I don't care who wins as long as someone is winning for me. As it stands I have a slight Apple bias but no Apple phone to buy because the iPhone 6 only excelled at being lackluster in all the ways that matter to me.

Getting iOS under control, upping the ram, and getting a better camera will go a long way towards getting me away from my S6, which is a truly outstanding and more appealing then any iPhones on the market currently.
 

bhayes444

macrumors 6502a
Jul 13, 2013
772
292
Because they increased the sensor size, while keeping the megpix count constant, hence increasing the size of the photosites, which in turn collect more photons at equal exposure times. This results in higher IQ, especially in low light.
If they increase the megpix count, photosite size while decrease accordingly, and affect IQ negatively. In fact :apple: should do the smart thing and decrease megpix count.

Yeah, because we all know how amazing HTC's Ultrapixel camera was...
 

Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
5,456
4,310
Yeah, because we all know how amazing HTC's Ultrapixel camera was...
Never heard of this phone, but that's certainly why DSLRs are worlds better than any phone camera. Why do you think a D4s costs 6.5k$ (without the lens of course) but only has a whopping 16 megpix?
 

adamhenry

macrumors 68000
Jan 1, 2015
1,621
611
On the Beach
Never heard of this phone, but that's certainly why DSLRs are worlds better than any phone camera. Why do you think a D4s costs 6.5k$ (without the lens of course) but only has a whopping 16 megpix?

I've got an old Canon 1D that is only 4MP and it's lightyears better than my iPhone 6.
 

Imory

macrumors 6502a
Feb 2, 2013
830
316
Wonderland
Do you think that both the 4.7 inch and 5.5 inch models will receive the 2GB?

It would be downright moronic to not give them similar specs in terms of hardware (SoC = GPU/CPU and RAM). To create even more fragmentation in that regard just doesn't make much sense.
 

Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
5,456
4,310
I've got an old Canon 1D that is only 4MP and it's lightyears better than my iPhone 6.
Exactly.

And about the RAM:
Why doesn't :apple: put ssds in iOS devices and manage the memory similar to Mac OS? You can substitute performance a bit with memory, but the bottleneck is the pathetic NAND storage.
 

bhayes444

macrumors 6502a
Jul 13, 2013
772
292
Never heard of this phone, but that's certainly why DSLRs are worlds better than any phone camera. Why do you think a D4s costs 6.5k$ (without the lens of course) but only has a whopping 16 megpix?

The Ultrapixel camera was on the HTC One M7 and M8. They were 4MP camera sensors with large pixels that let more light in. The camera samples were decent, but people complained so hard that the MP count was so low that cropping was nearly impossible without cutting out subjects. Not to mention the pictures were a bit above average in terms of quality. I was just trying to point out that lowering MP count will not necessarily be a good thing. I understand that DSLR will outperform smartphones any day of the week, but as long as progress is made to make smart phone cameras have better image quality, that is what I want. I just wish there was a way to have better lenses and bigger sensors in phones...
 

cdm283813

macrumors 6502
Jan 10, 2015
489
280
I was 95% sure that the iPhone 6 would have gotten 2GB with the redesign. So with the iPhone 6S I'm only 75% confident. Apple is very unpredictable when it comes to hardware. It wouldn't surprise me if the 6S gets the same 1GB but I'm leaning towards 2GB.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
I was 95% sure that the iPhone 6 would have gotten 2GB with the redesign. So with the iPhone 6S I'm only 75% confident. Apple is very unpredictable when it comes to hardware. It wouldn't surprise me if the 6S gets the same 1GB but I'm leaning towards 2GB.

It wouldn't surprise me either if Apple dropped the 6S gimped with 1GB. I hope not, I'd actually like to consider an iPhone again. However underspec'ed devices are not something that interests me at this stage in the smartphone game. Even if they come from Apple.
 

sunking101

macrumors 604
Sep 19, 2013
7,416
2,657
It wouldn't surprise me either if Apple dropped the 6S gimped with 1GB. I hope not, I'd actually like to consider an iPhone again. However underspec'ed devices are not something that interests me at this stage in the smartphone game. Even if they come from Apple.

Part of me wants the 6S to have 1GB of RAM so that I can finally move to Android with no regrets. My 6+ is a joke with only 1GB. It has been a joke straight from the box, let alone 12 months down the line. There's zero longevity with this device, it was crippled from the start and Apple have thoroughly annoyed me charging so much for a 'smart' phone with nil multitasking ability.

Then again, a decent helping of RAM would make me love my iPhone again. So I'll just wait and see what the 6S brings. The next iPhone is make or break time for me with Apple.
 

chambone

macrumors 6502a
Dec 24, 2011
969
25
Netherlands
Exactly.

And about the RAM:
Why doesn't :apple: put ssds in iOS devices and manage the memory similar to Mac OS? You can substitute performance a bit with memory, but the bottleneck is the pathetic NAND storage.

What kind of memory do you think they make ssds of? The storage in iphones is pretty fast as it is, especially the larger capacities. The bottleneck is the amount of ram. They don't swap ram to storage on iphones because people tend to fill them to the brim.
 

TechZeke

macrumors 68020
Jul 29, 2012
2,455
2,289
Dallas, TX
I agree to a certain extent but as iOS advances, it further exposes the bottleneck of the iPhone's performance (RAM). At some point, Apple needs to increase this to allow it to evolve. We've been on 1GB for 3 years now and I think they've milked all they could with their coding to provide a smooth user experience but something's gotta give.

It's not at all a spec war; Apple putting 2GB will be seen as playing catch up since Android phones are typically pushing 3-4GB now. Apple does more with less, we all know this but they still need to increase hardware specs at some point to allow the software to grow.

While owning an iPad Air 2, I did notice the massive differences the extra RAM makes vs the iPhone 6 Plus. (I can open an app from DAYS ago on my iPad Air 2 and it was exactly where I left off, no refreshing.)

It doesn't affect the apps themselves and I can still multitask between apps, so I still love using the phone, but it would be nice if more apps could be stored in RAM.
 

Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
5,456
4,310
The storage in iphones is pretty fast as it is, especially the larger capacities.
No, it isn't. Provide a source please.

----------

What kind of memory do you think they make ssds of?
Obviously not the one used in ssds ...
In all the benchmarks ran by them, the MLC NAND equipped iPhone 6 performed consistently faster than the TLC based one. In the Zero filling test, the former averaged a transfer rate of 75MB/sec while the latter averaged at 26MB/sec with a peak transfer rate of 48MB/sec. In the second test, where random data was written to the NANDs — the MLC NAND flash based iPhone 6 reached a peak transfer of 15.7MB/s with a minimum speed of 2.9MB/sec.
http://www.iphonehacks.com/2014/11/...istently-outperforms-ones-tlc-based-nand.html

As you can see from my source, iPhone 6 storage architecture blocks signigicantly less RAM than the competitors.
The NAND speed however is nowhere near the ones thpical for ssds. In fact, the old spinning hdds perform better in most situations.
 

nox5

macrumors 6502
Oct 16, 2013
415
49
Last RAM upgrade from DDR2 to DDR3 was between 5 and 5s. 6 did not have any upgrade , still DDR3. I think 6s is definitely due for new RAM.
 

MetalCores

macrumors regular
Apr 30, 2015
149
59
Mosinee, WI
2GB maybe on the 6s but I'm thinking they are gonna wait until the 7 for that upgrade. Guess we will just have to wait and see.
 

recoil80

macrumors 68040
Jul 16, 2014
3,117
2,755
No, it isn't. Provide a source please.

----------

Obviously not the one used in ssds ...

http://www.iphonehacks.com/2014/11/...istently-outperforms-ones-tlc-based-nand.html

As you can see from my source, iPhone 6 storage architecture blocks signigicantly less RAM than the competitors.
The NAND speed however is nowhere near the ones thpical for ssds. In fact, the old spinning hdds perform better in most situations.

You are quoting only write speed, read speed is higher (about 200MB/s sequential).
But you are right: the Macbook's SSD is faster if you look at the benchmarks of MBP and MBr.

But what's the point in using the NAND for swapping memory?
That would make iOS similar to OS X but RAM is faster than the fastest SSD and a single mobile application doesn't need more RAM than the physical RAM available. In iOS you don't run more than one app at a time, you have multitasking but only one frontmost app.
The memory management of iOS is very good for a mobile device, they should just double the RAM like they did on iPad Air 2
 

AleXXXa

macrumors 6502
Feb 22, 2015
332
223
Knowing Apple, it will probably have 1.5GB. And 2 GB next year when iphone 7 comes out.
 

Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
5,456
4,310
You are quoting only write speed, read speed is higher (about 200MB/s sequential).
Write speed is what's relevant for proper memory mangament.

----------

But what's the point in using the NAND for swapping memory?
That would make iOS similar to OS X but RAM is faster than the fastest SSD and a single mobile application doesn't need more RAM than the physical RAM available. In iOS you don't run more than one app at a time, you have multitasking but only one frontmost app.
I keep telling people that iOS devices are not made for multitasking, but they are not getting it, as can be seen in these dumb threads, where they scream for more ram.

Let me explain once again:
Yes, only one app runs upfront, but once RAM is used up, apps "on-hold" in the background are force quit. Once :apple: makes 2gb standard across the board, apps will be developed in a way that they use more RAM. Then the same thing happens: you switch -> reload. Then threads will come up where people will ask for even more RAM and the cycle begins again ...

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The memory management of iOS is very good for a mobile device, ...
The 'memory management' (if you can even call it that) of iOS is geared towards running only one stable app at a time. It is very obviously not programmed for multitasking. If you want real multitasking, you need a proper ssd and a real OS. (Like on the surface tablets for example).

Since the beginning of computing increasing RAM has been the quick way to help with problems that are actually not really RAM related. The bottleneck on iOS devices is clearly software and storage related. :apple: knows this and that is why they will only very, very slowly increase RAM specs.
 

mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,626
2,540
Write speed is what's relevant for proper memory mangament.

----------

I keep telling people that iOS devices are not made for multitasking, but they are not getting it, as can be seen in these dumb threads, where they scream for more ram.

Let me explain once again:
Yes, only one app runs upfront, but once RAM is used up, apps "on-hold" in the background are force quit. Once :apple: makes 2gb standard across the board, apps will be developed in a way that they use more RAM. Then the same thing happens: you switch -> reload. Then threads will come up where people will ask for even more RAM and the cycle begins again ...

----------

The 'memory management' (if you can even call it that) of iOS is geared towards running only one stable app at a time. It is very obviously not programmed for multitasking. If you want real multitasking, you need a proper ssd and a real OS. (Like on the surface tablets for example).

Since the beginning of computing increasing RAM has been the quick way to help with problems that are actually not really RAM related. The bottleneck on iOS devices is clearly software and storage related. :apple: knows this and that is why they will only very, very slowly increase RAM specs.

And for a smartphone, we don't even need multitasking in the way it's desired on a PC. Screens on phones are far too small for that to be useful, and I ain't carrying around a 24" monitor to use with my smartphone!
 

chambone

macrumors 6502a
Dec 24, 2011
969
25
Netherlands
Obviously not the one used in ssds ...
NAND is used in both, and it's just as fast. Thing is, you can't compare a 256 or 512GB ssd, where data is written onto many chips concurrently by relatively powerful and power hungry triple or quad core controllers, to a 64GB phone where data is written to two/four chips simultaneously, and where saving energy is the priority. Not to mention that writing isn't all that important on a phone; reading is what makes it feel fast.

I can go along with your theory that devs will get 'sloppier' once 2GB is the standard, and we'll end up with the same issues, but the bottomline is that 1GB is just too little for iOS8. Now, on my 5S I must admit that I have very little reloading of tabs or apps (about the same as on my lollipop Z1 compact with 2GB RAM, go figure), but I imagine this is different on a 6, let alone a 6+. The difference in battery life will be negligible. Apple's just penny-pinching, saving a couple of dollars per phone. They should have shipped the new iphones with 2GB of RAM, period.
 

sunking101

macrumors 604
Sep 19, 2013
7,416
2,657
And for a smartphone, we don't even need multitasking in the way it's desired on a PC. Screens on phones are far too small for that to be useful, and I ain't carrying around a 24" monitor to use with my smartphone!

I don't need true multitasking, I just want apps and browser tabs to not refresh when I go back to them 5-10 minutes later.
 
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