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Should Scott Forstall have stayed at Apple?

G

gadget123

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Apr 17, 2011
2,388
340
United Kingdom
Well these dramatic changes Johnny I've is proposing may not be as good. I wonder how many Apple fans will regret him leaving?

How much was he involved with the first iphone OS?
 
You're judging "Johnny Ive's" changes before ANYTHING has even been unveiled?

Mind. Blown.
 
FSMBP said:
You're judging "Johnny Ive's" changes before ANYTHING has even been unveiled?

Mind. Blown.
Click to expand...

If it was that good the leaks would confirm it being an amazing new OS. Instead they use the words flat which usually means boring something Apple fans associate with Android devices. Apple seem keen on low end devices so the new OS might be ideal for the new cheap plastic iphone.

Premium and innovation seem to be gone.
 
gadget123 said:
Well these dramatic changes Johnny I've is proposing may not be as good. I wonder how many Apple fans will regret him leaving?

How much was he involved with the first iphone OS?
Click to expand...

He didn't get to choose if he wanted to stay or not. He was FIRED by Tim Cook.

He was heavily involved in iPhone OS as he came from NeXT which was software that turned to OS X and OS X was used for iPhone OS.
 
irDigital0l said:
He didn't get to choose if he wanted to stay or not. He was FIRED by Tim Cook.

He was heavily involved in iPhone OS as he came from NeXT which was software that turned to OS X and OS X was used for iPhone OS.
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He should never have been fired.

All goes back to would the Apple of old days have apologised about the maps thing? I doubt it.

I'm sure I read some people in Apple liked the 7" galaxy tablet so pushed jobs to make an ipad mini. Perhaps there's many within Apple using Android devices pushing them to copy Android rather than innovate?
 
I think we will regret being happy that he was let go, but I'm not entirely sure yet. He was a Jobs protige and seemed to be good for apple. I was a bit uneasy when they let him go. Ive excelled in hardware design when Jobs was around, but struggled when Schully was in charge. But I'm not judging until we see what iOS 7 brings next week.
 
gadget123 said:
I'm sure I read some people in Apple liked the 7" galaxy tablet so pushed jobs to make an ipad mini. Perhaps there's many within Apple using Android devices pushing them to copy Android rather than innovate?
Click to expand...

They didn't like a 7'' tablet, but Phil tried to convince Steve that a 7'' tablet had a market.

Flat design doesn't equal Android and how is Apple not innovating?
 
irDigital0l said:
They didn't like a 7'' tablet, but Phil tried to convince Steve that a 7'' tablet had a market.

Flat design doesn't equal Android and how is Apple not innovating?
Click to expand...

The ipad mini is cool its the design Apple should have made the 9" one.

However ipad mini for me shouldn't have been released.
 
gadget123 said:
Again Siri did improve.

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People should appetite the good work the guy done. So he made a few mistakes with maps and Siri but I think Apple is worse off without him.
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Siri was advertised as a beta product and there wasn't any Google, Samsung counterparts.

To many, Apple Maps was worse than Google Maps which was replaced. Windows phones Nokia, Android phones have Google, etc. Apple Maps should have been on par with that level but clearly that was impossible.

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gadget123 said:
The ipad mini is cool its the design Apple should have made the 9" one.

However ipad mini for me shouldn't have been released.
Click to expand...

Why?

If there's a market, Apple makes more money.
 
gadget123 said:
He should never have been fired.

All goes back to would the Apple of old days have apologised about the maps thing? I doubt it.

I'm sure I read some people in Apple liked the 7" galaxy tablet so pushed jobs to make an ipad mini. Perhaps there's many within Apple using Android devices pushing them to copy Android rather than innovate?
Click to expand...

A manager can take credit for a teams work but if they aren't prepared to be first line when yelling needs to occur then they lose all credibility.
Yes Steve Jobs and Tim have very different styles in these situations but neither backs away from being the face of the issue. Scott wasn't there who'd want to work for him after that.

I think Apple needs more of Tim's style and to bring more of the team out to the front.

The iPad has followed a pretty logical chain of development. To me the iPad mini was on the cards from day one, even if Steve didn't agree. Then again Steve saying "No" almost always meant "not yet".
 
I really think Forstall allowed IOS to stagnate. I really look forward to what Jony Ive will do with IOS. I feel like he probably has great insight about what software would look best, since he designs the hardware in so much detail. But we will find out soon enough. The more collaborative all the teams at Apple are the better the integration.
 
Let's make this clear. Apple was never against the idea of a 7" tablet. Specifically, Jobs did not like the physical size of UI elements that accompanied smaller (than iPad 9.7") tablets at the time. He never said the 7" screen was too small. He said something like "sand paper should be in the box to sand your fingers down" to be able to tap the small UI buttons. The Android OS on tablets was craptastic at the time. It was also pretty craptastic on smartphones. Today, it's made so much progress on both fronts.

Apple Maps. Not a disaster. It worked fine for me on Day 1. Yes, there were some glitches and 3D Flyover imagery issues. But as far as the core functionality was concerned, it was solid. Imagery can be fixed. Core functionality is a bit more difficult. Google Earth is and was no different. They've had close to a decade to fix imagery problems. As far as UI and ease of use, Apple Maps were and is a big win.

Siri. Not a disaster. Those comparing to Google Now are pretty stupid. Google Now and Siri are two different beasts and have two very different goals in mind. Siri is on-demand. Google Now is trying to predict your future based on previous usage behaviors and patterns. Siri is inherently never "ahead of the curve" so to speak. Google Now tries to be but it doesn't always get it right.

As far as Forstall, he did many great things to iOS. He made mistakes sure. But overall, iOS would not be where it is today without him. But with Steve Jobs gone, Apple is going to change whether you like it or not. There's a new CEO. It's Cook's Apple now. And so far, we haven't seen any major changes that can be decidedly those of Tim Cook.
 
gadget123 said:
Well these dramatic changes Johnny I've is proposing may not be as good.
Click to expand...

We don't know what changes he might be making.

Forstall didn't leave so much as was told to, for a number of reasons. Staying was not a choice

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gadget123 said:
If it was that good the leaks would confirm it being an amazing new OS. Instead they use the words flat which usually means boring .
Click to expand...

Most of these 'leaks' are just rumors based on a single anti skeuomorphism comment Ive made a year or so ago. The rumors could be true, somewhat true or total BS like that thinner iPhone 4S. And perhaps this cheap (plastic or not) iPhone

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gadget123 said:
Also the maps fiasco was blown way put of proportion. A flat boring IOS will upset far more people.
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While you are correct about the Maps thing it wasn't the only reason.

And you may find that in fact that many folks won't be that upset. The vast majority of folks that buy Apple stuff really don't care as long as it works. Only maybe 5% of users will care and 4.5 of those will probably be more upset at how long the first jailbreak takes to come out
 
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gadget123 said:
People should appetite the good work the guy done. So he made a few mistakes with maps and Siri but I think Apple is worse off without him.
Click to expand...

I heard that he did take a lot of credit for a work that wasn't done entirely by himself! We will see but I don't think he will be greatly missed!
 
gadget123 said:
If it was that good the leaks would confirm it being an amazing new OS. Instead they use the words flat which usually means boring something Apple fans associate with Android devices.
Click to expand...

Describing the OS as 'amazing' doesn't tell you anything about the design. If you have a negative association with 'flat', than thats cool, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will be bad.

The problem with 'flat design' is that it's so overused. Google and Microsoft have embraced the concept and implemented it everywhere, to the point that it looks tacky. While Jony Ive is known for liking minimalism, I feel that he won't create a radical overhaul to iOS, instead only being more sympathetic to flat design, and will allow effects like shadows and gradients to be implemented still, but just not so liberally.

No one knows though. I could be wrong and end up agreeing with you on June 10.
 
None of us really know anything about how SF was at Apple, the guy could have been a total nightmare, caused divisions - been a suckjob to SJ - who knows.. It's crazy to speculate.

I believe Tim Cook is being honest when he talks about how Apple departments are now connecting and ideas are being shared, segregation and barriers will ruin a business in the long run.

One would think the brains and brawn behind iOS and OS X when in collaboration would be a spectacular sight to watch, no doubt 90% of any wow factor is being saved for beyond OS X, which isn't far away!
 
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