Snow Leopard on Unsupported PowerPC Macs

[barracuda156]

Some stuff still has to be sorted out, but I got a pkg for MacPorts with a working curl, which downloads pre-built packages for 10.6 ppc:

Sorted out fetching ports sources, but very timely did a quick rsyncing before going home which apparently wiped out packages from the server LOL
(Be careful with ending slashes.)

No big deal, but uploading 45 GB will take another day.

But I guess at least by Sunday we have a way to get gcc13, latest CMake and what’s not in half an hour on a G4.

 

[B S Magnet]

There is this handy tool

Comparing Folders

www.araxis.com

that I've been using (albeit much older version) to spot the differences between various versions of apps. Maybe some of us, who have spare time, could check for differences in images uploaded by @educovas and write down the changes?

This really should be the job of the person invoking changes, as that person is best disposed to document how and why a particular change was made in order to yield a desired result.

Sure, it takes some time for that app to load and calculate the differences, but then, I don't think the whole images need to be compared. Maybe only some select directories.

The problem, at least for me, is that I can not decipher which @educovas images to download and where to find them.

That’s another issue, and one for a separate discussion.

That Araxis thing has a 30 day trial, btw.

🙃 It’s beside the point.

If you are indeed calling it a day, please do share what you have so the rest of us can continue with what you’ve been doing. It will save a lot of time compared to trying to figure it out ourselves.

(This here is why the previous suggestion, ojfd, is beside the point.)

 

[educovas]

In order to stop these complains about documentation and G5 support, I've decided that I'm keeping what I have to myself and won't be sharing anything.

 

[MacPro2006VBox]

In order to stop these complains about documentation and G5 support, I've decided that I'm keeping what I have to myself and won't be sharing anything.

That’s not gonna let this project continue on if you decide to stop working on it. Don’t be a jerk like that.

 

[MacPro2006VBox]

In order to stop these complains about documentation and G5 support, I've decided that I'm keeping what I have to myself and won't be sharing anything.

That basically kills the project…. Good fn job.

 

[Jazzzny]

If the project is an "ongoing community project — a marathon, not a sprint", then you should be able to continue without problem. However, as no significant progress has been made since 10A190 until EduCovas arrived, it seems that you're going to have to wait a few more years.

 

[B S Magnet]

In order to stop these complains about documentation and G5 support, I've decided that I'm keeping what I have to myself and won't be sharing anything.

In other words: as you were.

If adopting a proprietary, closed, private tack is what you’re aiming for with your work on the project, then this community effort probably wasn’t going to be a strong fit.

(For the rest of y’all: if you don’t concur, either in part or whole, that’s fine, and I respect it. I’ll leave the project.)


EDIT to add: No one here is asking you to quit working on this. If you want to work on your stuff in private, then please do so. If, however, you want to work on stuff in the context of this project, which from the outset was open, then it’s not an exceptional ask that you share your findings, in documentation, to assist other participants to work alongside your own progress. Several sets of eyes can solve a troubleshooting roadblock faster than if one set of eyes keeps looking at it, to no avail.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Ok. I’ve literally just signed-in at 05:19 where I live to say thank you to @educovas for sharing his text file instructions on building the kernel for PowerPC, which included very specific details on which files to modify, where the files are to be found in the source code and exactly how to modify them. Following these instructions I have successfully compiled the 10.6 kernel for PowerPC, for the first time, after only having been able to build it for intel previously.

@MacPro2006VBox If you would like to reap the benefits of this project, or any other community project which is provided free of charge, I suggest you stop trolling the thread and harassing people. It’s not amusing and frankly i’m tired of reading it.

I don’t understand why the situation between @B S Magnet and @educovas has escalated to the point where both are considering leaving the project, but to put it quite bluntly, it’s completely unnecessary and insulting to all involved and all following along. I would ask everyone to go and take a step back, get some fresh air and put things into perspective please. This is supposed to be a fun and interesting pastime not a battlefield for ideological differences.

We are all allowed to have our own opinions, and we are all different. Those differences are what makes working together interesting, and rewarding. Some of us are gifted with writing and research and others are gifted with technical expertise and so on.

It’s not reasonable to expect or demand anything from anyone on this thread, with the exception of courtesy and respectful communication. In particular it’s worth reminding everyone, that some people are not only uninterested in some of these areas of expertise, but may also have invisible disabilities, or other health reasons that they are not able to indulge requests, and then of course we all have life to contend with outside of this thread.

I appreciate all contributions to this project, it has remained something that has been interesting and entertaining over the last few years, regardless of what has been happening in the real world. We have a fantastic community of talented and resourceful individuals here and I will be greatly saddened to see it fall apart over a few disagreements, that given a different perspective could be resolved amicably.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Sorted out fetching ports sources, but very timely did a quick rsyncing before going home which apparently wiped out packages from the server LOL
(Be careful with ending slashes.)

No big deal, but uploading 45 GB will take another day.

But I guess at least by Sunday we have a way to get gcc13, latest CMake and what’s not in half an hour on a G4.

I just nuked a Catalina install by mistake in DiskUtility instead of formatting a different partition getting ready to build things again. Fortunately it wasn’t my main machine 😂

The joys of tinkering with sleep deprivation!

 

[MacPro2006VBox]

Ok. I’ve literally just signed-in at 05:19 where I live to say thank you to @educovas for sharing his text file instructions on building the kernel for PowerPC, which included very specific details on which files to modify, where the files are to be found in the source code and exactly how to modify them. Following these instructions I have successfully compiled the 10.6 kernel for PowerPC, for the first time, after only having been able to build it for intel previously.

@MacPro2006VBox If you would like to reap the benefits of this project, or any other community project which is provided free of charge, I suggest you stop trolling the thread and harassing people. It’s not amusing and frankly i’m tired of reading it.

I don’t understand why the situation between @B S Magnet and @educovas has escalated to the point where both are considering leaving the project, but to put it quite bluntly, it’s completely unnecessary and insulting to all involved and all following along. I would ask everyone to go and take a step back, get some fresh air and put things into perspective please. This is supposed to be a fun and interesting pastime not a battlefield for ideological differences.

We are all allowed to have our own opinions, and we are all different. Those differences are what makes working together interesting, and rewarding. Some of us are gifted with writing and research and others are gifted with technical expertise and so on.

It’s not reasonable to expect or demand anything from anyone on this thread, with the exception of courtesy and respectful communication. In particular it’s worth reminding everyone, that some people are not only uninterested in some of these areas of expertise, but may also have invisible disabilities, or other health reasons that they are not able to indulge requests, and then of course we all have life to contend with outside of this thread.

I appreciate all contributions to this project, it has remained something that has been interesting and entertaining over the last few years, regardless of what has been happening in the real world. We have a fantastic community of talented and resourceful individuals here and I will be greatly saddened to see it fall apart over a few disagreements, that given a different perspective could be resolved amicably.

I mean I’d contribute more if there were support for the G5’s in the outset in the kernel of 10a222 and up (the only G4 I have is a heavy m0therf**ker as I’ve alluded to… I really wish I had an iBook, PowerBook, or iMac G4…. But Ohio sucks for getting ahold of anything PowerPC or Mac in general it seems)

 

[MacPro2006VBox]

I apologize for trolling and any potential harassment I may have caused. However I will say that maybe it’s a good idea to take a break…. I may as well do so… hell it’s been a while since I worked on Leopard on the G3’s… I have hardly touched 9Z1554 outside of a short test on my iMac G3.

 

[MacPro2006VBox]

Also I’ve shared the advancements with Action Retro over on bitbang.social

 

[MacPro2006VBox]

I've tried everything I could to fix WiFi/Ethernet but no success so I'm giving up and I'll probably share what I have tomorrow.

I don't think I'll try to boot newer builds since it would be a waste of time for me to do all that work and not have an internet connection.

Image it and I’ll try it… (even though I have the sneaking suspicion my eMac is the only system that will work)

 

[ChrisCharman]

I mean I’d contribute more if there were support for the G5’s in the outset in the kernel of 10a222 and up (the only G4 I have is a heavy m0therf**ker as I’ve alluded to… I really wish I had an iBook, PowerBook, or iMac G4…. But Ohio sucks for getting ahold of anything PowerPC or Mac in general it seems)

We’ll get there in time. I have a G5 as well as several G4’s so will be looking into this eventually.

 

[MacPro2006VBox]

We’ll get there in time. I have a G5 as well as several G4’s so will be looking into this eventually.

I would have to guess that the G5 will fail to boot and the G4’s will mostly work.

 

[ChrisCharman]

I would have to guess that the G5 will fail to boot and the G4’s will mostly work.

Perhaps. XNU is designed to be architecture independent on the most fundamental level, so it really only comes down to someone interested in doing so, putting the time effort into it. Time and patience solve most problems.

 

[MacPro2006VBox]

Perhaps. XNU is designed to be architecture independent on the most fundamental level, so it really only comes down to someone interested in doing so, putting the time effort into it. Time and patience solve most problems.

I mean I’ve tried booting 10A222/10A190 (D3 kernel) on my G5 and it failed to even post being connected to my TV had to drag out an old VGA monitor to see anything…

 

[ChrisCharman]

I mean I’d contribute more if there were support for the G5’s in the outset in the kernel of 10a222 and up (the only G4 I have is a heavy m0therf**ker as I’ve alluded to… I really wish I had an iBook, PowerBook, or iMac G4…. But Ohio sucks for getting ahold of anything PowerPC or Mac in general it seems)

If you have an intel mac capable of running 10.6 GM @MacPro2006VBox you could try to cross compile the kernel for G5 yourself. The instructions for building for PowerPC were already provided by @educovas or perhaps @barracuda156 may want to give it a go as they use a G5 machine regularly and are keen to see the architecture supported?

I apologize for trolling and any potential harassment I may have caused. However I will say that maybe it’s a good idea to take a break…. I may as well do so… hell it’s been a while since I worked on Leopard on the G3’s… I have hardly touched 9Z1554 outside of a short test on my iMac G3.

Always important to prioritise rest and mental wellbeing. Taking a break often helps to put things into perspective.

 

[ChrisCharman]

I mean I’ve tried booting 10A222/10A190 (D3 kernel) on my G5 and it failed to even post being connected to my TV had to drag out an old VGA monitor to see anything…

Yeah so it doesn’t work out of the box. That’s Apple’s decision. Just means it will take work from someone who adamantly wants G5 support to fix it.

 

[MacPro2006VBox]

If you have an intel mac capable of running 10.6 GM @MacPro2006VBox you could try to cross compile the kernel for G5 yourself. The instructions for building for PowerPC were already provided by @educovas or perhaps @barracuda156 may want to give it a go as they use a G5 machine regularly and are keen to see the architecture supported?



Always important to prioritise rest and mental wellbeing. Taking a break often helps to put things into perspective.

I do have a couple polycarbonate MacBooks that can run 10.6

 

[barracuda156]

It’s not reasonable to expect or demand anything from anyone on this thread, with the exception of courtesy and respectful communication.

Exactly. That was my point as well: while something may be good to have, demanding someone to do it is meaningless and counter-productive.

 

[barracuda156]

That’s great @barracuda156! Will make it much easier for normal users

Chris, could you do me a favor a try installing MacPorts-Snow-PowerPC.pkg and run, for example:

sudo port -v sync
sudo port -v install cmake-devel

Important:
– this requires 10A190 (possibly may work on later builds, but not earlier ones);
– Xcode may not be required to try this, since hopefully pre-built ports are used, but generally speaking, MacPorts requires Xcode; Xcode from 10A190 works fine and is recommended for 10A190; Xcode from 10A222 is usable, but needs multiple components to be replaced; later versions might or might not work, with the same reservation;
– installation assumes that /opt/bootstrap does not exist and MacPorts is either not installed or does not have installed ports; if you have MacPorts installation with ports you have built earlier, it may not work correctly;
– port sync will take some time to create an index of ports, that is expected; on G4 it will likely take quite a while.

Ideally, this should be done on a clean installation of 10A190 with Xcode from 10A190.
It is also perfectly safe and expected to work on a 10A190 installation currently in use which does not have MacPorts installed and does not have /opt/bootstrap folder.
If MacPorts is already installed, it is advisable to uninstall ports from it: sudo port uninstall installed.

P. S. If MacPorts prefix is not in the path, this can be done:

export PATH=/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin

 

[NikolaPPC]

I don't post much here because i have a job, i study University of Electrical Science, field Electronics and Radio Telecomunications and have lots of side jobs and hobbies (making/drawing electronic PCBs, designing electronic circuits and schematics, assembler, machine code, C language etc..).

I have DC 2.3Ghz G5 with Samsung Evo 840 and 2 Quads 2.5GhZ, i use DC 2.3 with optimised Leopard 10.5.8 (from the Leopard Thread) and Sorbet on the other partirion regularly for my job, hobby and university.

The Quads have a failing LCS, one has a beaten up case with a fully working motherboard, the other has a failing motherboard. From those 2 I have to make one fully complete and working, and that will happen over a course of the year.
I'm planning to use that Quad in a studio that my best friend has (that i made, configured, designed (he's just an artist, i do the techical work)) for Audio production with DAWs like (Cubase, Logic, Ableton, Pro Tools) with Digi 003 Rack audio interface that I have. Digi 003 is connected to the G5 via Firewire 400 and is paired with Motu 828x via ADAT I/O. Motu is connected to Windows PC via Thunderbolt. I downloaded like a thousand PlugIns and VSTs and that mentioned audio production software (DAWs) for 10.5.8 all over the web. I plan to share everything in one zip file here over the course of the year, via Torrent or Direct download.
I have tested some Plugins, VSTs and DAWs on my DC 2.3 with Digi 003 and it's all working. So my plan is first to install everything on Quad. Leopard 10.5.8 that i will optimise (using the info from the Leopard Thread), Samsung EVO 840 paired with Samsung Nvme SM951 AHCI SSD that i plan to install the plug-ins on.
I also plan to make an exact guide how to properly repair the lCS for Quads and disassemble the whole Quad (dust cleaning, replacing thermal paste on North Bridge, Capacitor replacement on the PSU to increase the life of the Quad) and post it here too.

Also, i have tried installed the 10A190 on my DC 2.3 on a seperate SSD. The reason was to test the apps that i use, DAWs, VSTs. I have encountered problems with some software (not working, breaking, working poorly), so im patiently waiting for releases made by @educovas and @barracuda156 without bothering them.
In the future I plan to test everything with all software i use and have mentioned.
The bad part is that i don't program for Macs (never have), but i programm RISC microcontrollers like STM32 and PICs.

All that aside, every project i work on takes a lot of time, patience and money and i know what it feels like.

So i have to tell some of you guys here, just watch, wait, have patience for the people that know their stuff, just like i wait, watch and read. A time will come for your part in this project.
Let's make everything work first, then we will do the documentation and the lists.

There is this handy tool

Comparing Folders

www.araxis.com

that I've been using (albeit much older version) to spot the differences between various versions of apps. Maybe some of us, who have spare time, could check for differences in images uploaded by @educovas and write down the changes?

I can do this on my DC 2.3 that i have and make a list. Also, i can test stuff here, with a guide from @educovas, @barracuda156 and @ChrisCharman and report back. I don't mind DC 2.3 working all day or night.

Cheers, Nikola!

 

[ChrisCharman]

Chris, could you do me a favor a try installing MacPorts-Snow-PowerPC.pkg and run, for example:

sudo port -v sync
sudo port -v install cmake-devel

Important:
– this requires 10A190 (possibly may work on later builds, but not earlier ones);
– Xcode may not be required to try this, since hopefully pre-built ports are used, but generally speaking, MacPorts requires Xcode; Xcode from 10A190 works fine and is recommended for 10A190; Xcode from 10A222 is usable, but needs multiple components to be replaced; later versions might or might not work, with the same reservation;
– installation assumes that /opt/bootstrap does not exist and MacPorts is either not installed or does not have installed ports; if you have MacPorts installation with ports you have built earlier, it may not work correctly;
– port sync will take some time to create an index of ports, that is expected; on G4 it will likely take quite a while.

Ideally, this should be done on a clean installation of 10A190 with Xcode from 10A190.
It is also perfectly safe and expected to work on a 10A190 installation currently in use which does not have MacPorts installed and does not have /opt/bootstrap folder.
If MacPorts is already installed, it is advisable to uninstall ports from it: sudo port uninstall installed.

P. S. If MacPorts prefix is not in the path, this can be done:

export PATH=/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin

Hi @barracuda156!

I’m happy to test this for you but will need a couple days as i’m working all weekend and will need to setup another 10A190 partition - i have 10A096, 10A190, 10A222, 10A432 (intel) and 10.6.8 (intel) setup across 5 or 6 different systems and different modifications and binary changes on all of them so will need a fresh partition to provide reliable results for you.

 

[ChrisCharman]

I don't post much here because i have a job, i study University of Electrical Science, field Electronics and Radio Telecomunications and have lots of side jobs and hobbies (making/drawing electronic PCBs, designing electronic circuits and schematics, assembler, machine code, C language etc..).

I have DC 2.3Ghz G5 with Samsung Evo 840 and 2 Quads 2.5GhZ, i use DC 2.3 with optimised Leopard 10.5.8 (from the Leopard Thread) and Sorbet on the other partirion regularly for my job, hobby and university.

The Quads have a failing LCS, one has a beaten up case with a fully working motherboard, the other has a failing motherboard. From those 2 I have to make one fully complete and working, and that will happen over a course of the year.
I'm planning to use that Quad in a studio that my best friend has (that i made, configured, designed (he's just an artist, i do the techical work)) for Audio production with DAWs like (Cubase, Logic, Ableton, Pro Tools) with Digi 003 Rack audio interface that I have. Digi 003 is connected to the G5 via Firewire 400 and is paired with Motu 828x via ADAT I/O. Motu is connected to Windows PC via Thunderbolt. I downloaded like a thousand PlugIns and VSTs and that mentioned audio production software (DAWs) for 10.5.8 all over the web. I plan to share everything in one zip file here over the course of the year, via Torrent or Direct download.
I have tested some Plugins, VSTs and DAWs on my DC 2.3 with Digi 003 and it's all working. So my plan is first to install everything on Quad. Leopard 10.5.8 that i will optimise (using the info from the Leopard Thread), Samsung EVO 840 paired with Samsung Nvme SM951 AHCI SSD that i plan to install the plug-ins on.
I also plan to make an exact guide how to properly repair the lCS for Quads and disassemble the whole Quad (dust cleaning, replacing thermal paste on North Bridge, Capacitor replacement on the PSU to increase the life of the Quad) and post it here too.

Also, i have tried installed the 10A190 on my DC 2.3 on a seperate SSD. The reason was to test the apps that i use, DAWs, VSTs. I have encountered problems with some software (not working, breaking, working poorly), so im patiently waiting for releases made by @educovas and @barracuda156 without bothering them.
In the future I plan to test everything with all software i use and have mentioned.
The bad part is that i don't program for Macs (never have), but i programm RISC microcontrollers like STM32 and PICs.

All that aside, every project i work on takes a lot of time, patience and money and i know what it feels like.

So i have to tell some of you guys here, just watch, wait, have patience for the people that know their stuff, just like i wait, watch and read. A time will come for your part in this project.
Let's make everything work first, then we will do the documentation and the lists.

I can do this on my DC 2.3 that i have and make a list. Also, i can test stuff here, with a guide from @educovas, @barracuda156 and @ChrisCharman and report back. I don't mind DC 2.3 working all day or night.

Cheers, Nikola!

Most of XNU is written in C @NikolaPPC. If you have a chance to diff and understand some of the changes between XNU-1228.15.4 to XNU-1456.1.26 and find anything that would be of help please share.