So... Are Apple Maps improving yet?

[cyks]

You are naming companies that already have the staff and the infrastructure in place. Maps is a new venture for Apple. Sure, they have some staff but obviously the ones in place botched it up by most of your accounts - so hiring new, more senior people, and putting in a better way of updating/fixing things take time.

This doesn't even have to do with understanding corporate politics - but more, understanding common sense.

It's been nearly 4 months since they were made aware of the problems.

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I don't know about Bing and Waze but Google has 7,000 people working on maps at any given time. With the amount of wrong data (in the millions?) and corrections coming in, it can take a very long time to see corrections. I read somewhere that Apple has about 200 people working on maps. I would guess that only a certain percentage check the incoming corrections. The math is overwhelming at this point in time.

I couldn't care less how many people Apple has employed or how big of a problem it is for them.

I had maps that worked and, if I found a fault on them, I knew it'd generally be fixed within 2 weeks.

Apple took that away and forced me into maps that barely work in my area.


I don't see it as unreasonable to expect the same as what I had a few weeks ago... and, if they couldn't deliver on that, they shouldn't have promised the world (literally) and forced it.

 

[BuckeyeMac]

I don't know about Bing and Waze but Google has 7,000 people working on maps at any given time. With the amount of wrong data (in the millions?) and corrections coming in, it can take a very long time to see corrections. I read somewhere that Apple has about 200 people working on maps. I would guess that only a certain percentage check the incoming corrections. The math is overwhelming at this point in time.

If this 200 people figure from apple is correct, then they would have failed miserably as a company in map developing.

Look at it this way. They took google maps that worked very well and if they have a few THOUSAND people working on it, what would you expect to get as a result by using 200 people develop apple maps from not a whole lot? Makes sense...lol

If that's true then they have failed in the development and planning of their maps

 

[Apple fanboy]

Excuse my ignorance but if none of us have had a software update from apple then how are the maps going to get better? Once they have the fixes they will release a software update won't they?
Also in the UK apple have large areas where you can't zoom in because of clouds. This is clearly where they didn't have data so they have literally put up a smoke screen. Addresses are not in the correct street. Doesn't always take you to the closest Starbucks or whatever.
This shows some promise, but is defiantly a work in progress. I will be sticking with my other apps for now.

 

[silentsim]

Improvements to map are server side and don't need an update

 

[Brazuca]

It's been nearly 4 months since they were made aware of the problems.

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I couldn't care less how many people Apple has employed or how big of a problem it is for them.

I had maps that worked and, if I found a fault on them, I knew it'd generally be fixed within 2 weeks.

Apple took that away and forced me into maps that barely work in my area.


I don't see it as unreasonable to expect the same as what I had a few weeks ago... and, if they couldn't deliver on that, they shouldn't have promised the world (literally) and forced it.

Funny. I had maps that didn't work. Now they do. YMMV.

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I have yet to see the original source for that 7000 number. It would be interesting if they are counting all the contractors, etc. Then you would have to count Yelp staff, TomTom, etc.

Does anyone have the source?

This is as close as a source as I could find:

“In June, we talked to a pair of Googlers involved in its mapping product, and they said that Google has 1,100 full time employees and 6,000 contractors working on its mapping products. Those 7,000 people do all sorts of granular work.”

http://www.inquisitr.com/340837/google-maps-has-7000-employees-good-luck-apple-maps/

So you have to compare Apple employees and whoever is a contractor. You have to decide how to count all the partners who have responsibilities to provide data. Until Apple changes it's model to one like google, where it is all done in-house, it's hard to compare staffing levels.

For example, how do you count apple store employees who will be tasked to work on maps (equivalent to 1 staff person per store full time)? It should add a few hundred "map employees" to the equation.

My point is, quoting the 7000 number makes no sense as a metric of staff resources relative to Apple. We simply don't know.

My suspicion: only a few dozen apple staff are devoted full time. The rest are managing suppliers and contractor staff.

 

[rocknblogger]

It's been nearly 4 months since they were made aware of the problems.

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I couldn't care less how many people Apple has employed or how big of a problem it is for them.

I had maps that worked and, if I found a fault on them, I knew it'd generally be fixed within 2 weeks.

Apple took that away and forced me into maps that barely work in my area.


I don't see it as unreasonable to expect the same as what I had a few weeks ago... and, if they couldn't deliver on that, they shouldn't have promised the world (literally) and forced it.

I don't disagree that it's unacceptable and that it is a downgrade. My only point is that mapping is very complex and it's going to be a long road for Apple and the user. Why do you think Tim Cook came out and apologized and recommended using competitor's products? He knows its going to be a while before Apple maps is acceptable.

 

[cynics]

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, Google, Bing, Waze, and others generally make changes to their maps within 2 weeks (often less).


Why is it unreasonable to expect Apple to work in the same time frame?





By all means, please enlighten us.

I don't know. To get the maps perfect you need to dedicate a person per area to check every single road (placement, direction, road name, speed, etc etc), every business (name, phone number placement on map etc), every house number to make sure its accurate on the map and I'm sure a thousand other things...

So to get this done quickly maybe have a person for every 1000 square miles? Not only would that be approximately 50,000 employees give or take it would still take an ungodly amount of time. 1000 square miles is twice the size of NYC! Talk about a tedious job!

That's assuming you want them perfect or at least as perfect as they can get....btw I know this is unrealistic but you can see the scope of difficulty of mapping the world and POI's....

 

[kas23]

I don't know. To get the maps perfect you need to dedicate a person per area to check every single road (placement, direction, road name, speed, etc etc), every business (name, phone number placement on map etc), every house number to make sure its accurate on the map and I'm sure a thousand other things...

So to get this done quickly maybe have a person for every 1000 square miles? Not only would that be approximately 50,000 employees give or take it would still take an ungodly amount of time. 1000 square miles is twice the size of NYC! Talk about a tedious job!

That's assuming you want them perfect or at least as perfect as they can get....btw I know this is unrealistic but you can see the scope of difficulty of mapping the world and POI's....

Yes. Mapping is hard. But if Google did it, so can Apple. They better get cracking. Today I found a random Papa Johns pizza and I know for a fact there isn't one in a 10 mile radius of that spot. Where are they getting this data? It's like they just pulled it out of their ass.

 

[tekno]

It will take time to find the right candidates - certainly more than 10 days. Yes, Apple could hire a bunch of monkeys and have them punch random keys but I'm sure its users and its stock holders would have even less confidence in the team if they did that.

I don't think I'm making my point clear. Apple should already have in place a huge team of people trained and ready to sort out the problems. However, I suspect it's a very small team who are overwhelmed by the workload.

Apple seems to still have a small company mentality. I remember a few years ago reading that a new OSX was being delayed because people had been moved from developing it to work on problems with an iOS release. Apple should be employing more people to ensure these problems don't happen in the first place.

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Excuse my ignorance but if none of us have had a software update from apple then how are the maps going to get better?

Because the Map data isn't stored on the phone - it's downloaded from Apple as and when you request it.

So at the moment, search for Dublin Airport and Apple Maps will take you to a small farm in Dundrum. When Apple fix that, search again and it'll show Dublin Airport in the correct place.

 

[cyks]

So at the moment, search for Dublin Airport and Apple Maps will take you to a small farm in Dundrum. When Apple fix that, search again and it'll show Dublin Airport in the correct place.

No, it's showing me the Dublin Airport. Guess they already fixed it?

From reports, they've been fixing the wonky 3D effects and various POI, so it wouldn't surprise me... it's the actual roads and address data that's still untouched.

 

[tekno]

No, it's showing me the Dublin Airport. Guess they already fixed it?

From reports, they've been fixing the wonky 3D effects and various POI, so it wouldn't surprise me... it's the actual roads and address data that's still untouched.

So maybe fixes are happening! Or maybe it's cos this error was relatively high profile?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19676125

 

[Heb 7:4]

I downgraded back to 5.1.1 when I saw how **** maps were, but I went into the new apple store where I live (Bromley, SE London) and had a look at maps. There have been loads of changes, with out of date POIs from when I installed replaced by new accurate ones (including the apple shop).

I suspect that places with apple shops around them might get upgraded pretty quick, as the immediate area is what people look at when playing around with a device before buying!

 

[OllyW]

So maybe fixes are happening! Or maybe it's cos this error was relatively high profile?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19676125

The Dudley error I posted above was also highlighted by the BBC and that hasn't been fixed yet.

 

[ggmissmolly]

It might be instructive to go read about Apple's maps on Apple Insider. Turns out they are vastly superior to Googles offering in terms of file sizes and resulting details when out of cell coverage area. They might have a few errors (which I have not experienced) but apparently offer a much improved system for the future. Amazing that Apple fails to tell us this...interesting

 

[ixodes]

Apple maps improving? You've got to be kidding!

Let's be fair to Apple & give them some time.

This is a huge undertaking that is not going to "suddendly" be completed. While I feel certain that Tim Cook is throwing all the resources available behind it, this is a massive undertaking.

Due to the nearly unbelievable blunder of releasing it so soon, I'm sure Apples eager to be able to wipe the egg off their face and put this embarrassment behind them.

 

[matttye]

....

Learn how software works.

Enlighten me

Usually such a poor product would be labelled beta or even alpha, so maybe you should educate Apple too.

If you what you claim is true, then you should know the importance of hiring the right 7th or 8th person to put on that team. It will take time to find the right candidates - certainly more than 10 days. Yes, Apple could hire a bunch of monkeys and have them punch random keys but I'm sure its users and its stock holders would have even less confidence in the team if they did that.

As for your second comment, I don't completely agree with you. If this was 30 years ago when products cannot be updated w/ a patch or software update, I would totally agree. However, we don't live in that era any more. All applications are being updated constantly and maps of all projects is the one thing that will forever be a work in progress. To say that Apple shouldn't release the maps until it's "done" would mean Apple and every other company should never release a map period.

You think a massive company like Apple wouldn't foresee that they'd need a team to correct problems with maps when it had months of error reports to deal with in the beta?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect fixes within two weeks.

Excuse my ignorance but if none of us have had a software update from apple then how are the maps going to get better? Once they have the fixes they will release a software update won't they?
Also in the UK apple have large areas where you can't zoom in because of clouds. This is clearly where they didn't have data so they have literally put up a smoke screen. Addresses are not in the correct street. Doesn't always take you to the closest Starbucks or whatever.
This shows some promise, but is defiantly a work in progress. I will be sticking with my other apps for now.

The maps are downloaded on the fly, so fixes can be implemented without the need for a software update.

 

[SpyderBite]

Wasnt aware there was a problem?

Other than what I've read, I am not aware of any issues either. I use the new map daily and have yet to run into a problem in my area. I suspect a placebo effect in some reports here as I have used maps in some of the same areas that people here have claimed they were useless and didn't have the same experience. Not discounting all reports. I just think a little hysteria is playing a role in the percepted urgency.

 

[matttye]

Other than what I've read, I am not aware of any issues either. I use the new map daily and have yet to run into a problem in my area. I suspect a placebo effect in some reports here as I have used maps in some of the same areas that people here have claimed they were useless and didn't have the same experience. Not discounting all reports. I just think a little hysteria is playing a role in the percepted urgency.

I presume you're not from the UK. Theyre terrible here.

 

[tekno]

Let's be fair to Apple & give them some time.

I find this attitude so confusing! Apple weren't fair to their customers when they inexplicably deleted a perfectly good Maps app only to replace it with a poor beta version.

 

[Kukulcan]

Other than what I've read, I am not aware of any issues either. I use the new map daily and have yet to run into a problem in my area. I suspect a placebo effect in some reports here as I have used maps in some of the same areas that people here have claimed they were useless and didn't have the same experience. Not discounting all reports. I just think a little hysteria is playing a role in the percepted urgency.

Like that example where that find my friends app was supposedly better than Maps (Zagreb). I checked and the satellite images were much better than the posted images and not a single street was missing.

Many reports I checked are true (how urgent they are now that nearly the complete Google Maps functionality is back, I don't know) others I can't find the problem at all.

 

[Gav2k]

Poi's when reported seem to be added in 12-48 hours.

Street alterations... Well local to me there is one street missing but it isn't on tomtom, navigon or google for that matter.

Looking at the news I think apple will start using there apple store employees to confirm the alterations with either a modified iOS device or just a verification list (go here with the GPS location is that smith street... Yep good!)

 

[Gav2k]

Looks fixed

 

[OllyW]

Poi's when reported seem to be added in 12-48 hours.

It must depend where you live.

None of the POI's I've reported have been added or fixed and I reported most of them two weeks ago.

 

[kappaknight]

Enlighten me

Usually such a poor product would be labelled beta or even alpha, so maybe you should educate Apple too.

You think a massive company like Apple wouldn't foresee that they'd need a team to correct problems with maps when it had months of error reports to deal with in the beta?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect fixes within two weeks.

I'm pretty sure like most companies, they concentrate their resources on products/services that make money. The backlash on Maps has been huge, but only since the release. I don't recall anyone in the beta saying don't upgrade, this is the worst thing ever.

Now that it's out there, more priority will be given to this. Again, we are getting reports that they are trying to hire people from Google's Map team so it's fair to assume they don't already have the people they need to get this done fast.

 

[OllyW]

The backlash on Maps has been huge, but only since the release. I don't recall anyone in the beta saying don't upgrade, this is the worst thing ever.

You obviously missed this thread.