Steve Wozniak and Atari Founder Nolan Bushnell Recall Steve Jobs and Early Apple Memories Together

[PinkyMacGodess]

only once Jobs learned patience to complement his intensity is when things really took off

By most accounts Steve gradually learned patience at NeXT Computer after he left Apple. Future movies should include at least a segment about Steve's time at NeXT since Steve really matured a lot there.

IMHO, if there had been no NeXT Computer company -- and Steve's associated maturation there -- there would have been no post-1997 Apple renaissance.

Any story about the micromanagement at Next does not look at all like he 'matured'. Legend has it that Jobs required specific screws be imported for securing the motherboard, and that all components on the motherboard be orientated in a specific way. He also required the manufacturing equipment be painted in a certain color, and specific flooring and other items installed at great expense, not to mention the office furnishings and the circular staircase too.

If anything, perhaps AFTER the end of Next, and with his drumming by Pixar management, Steve 'matured'... I think Next was a megalomaniac's wet dream, and a board of directors nightmare. The Byzantine attention to minute detail and extravagance in construction for areas that no one would ever see made Next a bloated dinosaur better suited for 'pop art' then working computers for the education market... The damn things were far too expensive. In that day, I never saw any Next equipment at the 'Big Ten' university I attended. Everything was either Sun, or HP. There were possibly a few Next cubes around, but they were probably more of a luxury item.

Given the extremely small number of Next systems on ebay, one could assume either that A) All owners have retained those systems, or B) They really weren't that popular, or affordable...

Interesting side note: The only corporate environment that I ever saw Lisa computers was at Eli Lilly. I was very surprised to see them there. They had a mix of the various iterations at the time. I also worked for a computer reseller in the 'Big Ten' town, and I don't think they sold more than 2 Lisa units. They sold more 'skinny' Mac's when they first came out because grad students needed something other than typewriters to do their dissertations on, and the early Mac worked very well for that, with the ImageWriter printer. As others have pointed out, if it wasn't for the LaserWriter, I think the Mac would have died, taking Apple with it.

That Jobs did mature is a blessing. HOW he matured would likely make a very interesting movie... I'm sure it wasn't painless.

 

[macchiato2009]

You do realize though that many probably would not believe that just saying.

i have nothing to prove

i had the chance to meet my former boss when he came to Paris to inaugurate our first flagship, period

 

[dumastudetto]

If you only trust and take people who use Apple fans seriously, you in for a really rude shock.

Woz is a very smart man, and has a passion for tech. Sad that you would judge him by the devices he uses.

At best it shows Woz has bad taste. At worst it shows he doesn't know or care about the security risks of using Android devices.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Woz uses and likes Android devices so it's difficult to take him seriously anymore.

He has nothing invested in the iPhone. He didn't work on the project, didn't consult on it. He makes money off of it, being an Apple investor (I'd hope), but whether he uses an iPhone, or an Android, really shouldn't matter.

I could see where not using the iPhone would be better for someone who spent their life working for Apple and was basically 'assisted' out the door, and generally was disgusted with the 'business end' of the company and how they mistreated so many people.

I never eat at a restaurant I worked at in high school or college. I knew what went on behind the scenes and just couldn't get that idea out of my mind... Example: I worked at a Burger King that served freezer burned patties once; only to drive-thru people too. I just can't eat there, or McDonald's either... *URP*

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i have nothing to prove

i had the chance to meet my former boss when he came to Paris to inaugurate our first flagship, period

So proving you met god is just as problematic as proving that he talks to you... I knew someone that met Bill Gates in the men's room at Comdex. Who am I to say that he didn't. It's between him and Bill, and I'm sure the later has already forgotten about it...

I think meeting him would have been cool. Kinda like diving with a shark around. I did that once. Or maybe Barracuda... They have that look... Blank. Menacing. If they want you, they will have you...

 

[Giuly]

Wozniak is like Pele. They travel around, go to interviews, "write" books, and everything they have done until now is remembering something they did 20 years ago or longer.

I'm not saying is wrong, but I'd like to hear about Wozniak (or Pele) about something cool in the present time. Some new ideas, even if they are impossible, something fresh you know.

No more about living in the past. Please.

PCIe storage in the MacBook Air and iMac is great, isn't it?

 

[macchiato2009]

He has nothing invested in the iPhone. He didn't work on the project, didn't consult on it. He makes money off of it, being an Apple investor (I'd hope), but whether he uses an iPhone, or an Android, really shouldn't matter.

I could see where not using the iPhone would be better for someone who spent their life working for Apple and was basically 'assisted' out the door, and generally was disgusted with the 'business end' of the company and how they mistreated so many people.

I never eat at a restaurant I worked at in high school or college. I knew what went on behind the scenes and just couldn't get that idea out of my mind... Example: I worked at a Burger King that served freezer burned patties once; only to drive-thru people too. I just can't eat there, or McDonald's either... *URP*

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So proving you met god is just as problematic as proving that he talks to you... I knew someone that met Bill Gates in the men's room at Comdex. Who am I to say that he didn't. It's between him and Bill, and I'm sure the later has already forgotten about it...

I think meeting him would have been cool. Kinda like diving with a shark around. I did that once. Or maybe Barracuda... They have that look... Blank. Menacing. If they want you, they will have you...

i never said i talked to him, i said i met him

you seem to have lots of time to waste for foolish details

 

[MH01]

At best it shows Woz has bad taste. At worst it shows he doesn't know or care about the security risks of using Android devices.

you mean he does not suffer from paranoia for no reason......

 

[ElectronGuru]

The Byzantine attention to minute detail and extravagance in construction for areas that no one would ever see...

Interesting, most other threads around here are lamenting the lack of this level of obsession on the latest products.

 

[CFreymarc]

While movies about Jobs is good, love to see these two portrayed in a lighter, almost comedy / drama, movie about the early days of Silicon Valley. Have the Atari hot tub, the drama of user testing, the incredibility hot "geek groupies" that hung around both early Apple and Atari. The excessive lifestyle like the one guy who wrote Missile Command and bought a new Corvette every month. And of course the Captain Crunch stories.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

i never said i talked to him, i said i met him

you seem to have lots of time to waste for foolish details

But you still 'met' him. I 'met' Robin Williams. I'm not on his Christmas card list... It was just cool to watch him, and say hello. He's a whole lot hairier in person. Like a troll, or a teddy bear. Seemed like a nice guy though.

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Interesting, most other threads around here are lamenting the lack of this level of obsession on the latest products.

OK: There is 'attention to detail', and there is neuroses... Fighting people over the type of metal that the screws are made of? That's neurotic, and 'out there'... How many people saw the signed names in the bottom of the IIcx chassis? I guess it's something to know that it's there, but according to an article I read that was written by someone who worked at NeXT, the screws that Steve stubbornly demanded for the cube were significantly more expensive than the standard screws that everyone else used. I guess you could say that the NeXT was 'not like the others', but I'll wager people wouldn't give a crap what the screws were made of if the software blew major chunks. Well, and even if it didn't. I don't imagine people paid big bucks for the NeXT systems for the bling inside....

 

[chocolaterabbit]

They would OWN the computer industry pretty much and be larger than Apple and Microsoft (IF they existed at all) combined!

That's a bit of a pipe dream though, Apple has shown over and over again that people don't buy tech because it's available, people buy it if it makes their lives easier and fun to use. Xerox never understood this as a company.

 

[davidg4781]

I guess you could say that the NeXT was 'not like the others', but I'll wager people wouldn't give a crap what the screws were made of if the software blew major chunks. Well, and even if it didn't. I don't imagine people paid big bucks for the NeXT systems for the bling inside....

Were these user serviceable? When I first started messing around inside PCs I used to get annoyed that some screws only fit right in some holes because they were different sizes, even though they should've all been the same. I also would get annoyed that I could use a socket drive to take some out and others needed a philips screw driver because the hex part around the head wasn't tall enough.

Now, this was probably 10 years or so ago, but it annoyed me enough to go out and purchase a bulk set of screws to make sure they were all the same. Tossed out the rest.

There's not many that would even think about this, but to those few, I would guess Steve wanted to make sure they did not have anything to gripe about.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Were these user serviceable? When I first started messing around inside PCs I used to get annoyed that some screws only fit right in some holes because they were different sizes, even though they should've all been the same. I also would get annoyed that I could use a socket drive to take some out and others needed a philips screw driver because the hex part around the head wasn't tall enough.

Now, this was probably 10 years or so ago, but it annoyed me enough to go out and purchase a bulk set of screws to make sure they were all the same. Tossed out the rest.

There's not many that would even think about this, but to those few, I would guess Steve wanted to make sure they did not have anything to gripe about.

Steve Jobs? The original 'Slots are bad' guy? There was nothing 'user serviceable' about removing the motherboard. Accounts that I've read about the screw battle sound like they are describing a two year old sitting in the middle of the living room throwing a tantrum, and not realizing that the company was near bankruptcy many time before the first NeXT shipped, and demanding such extravagances as special screws and special molding techniques for the plastic was killing the company.

In the end, many people say that it was Apple that saved NeXT from bankruptcy and yet another Jobs failure by buying out NeXT and bringing Steve back. Any 'maturation' appears to have happened after Steve stepped back over the threshold of Apple, and was perhaps complete after he returned the favor after being stabbed in the back during his last stint there. Not to say it wouldn't be delicious, and cleansing to have done it. I've often fantasized about doing the same thing...

But anyway, the big thing is that *someone* got to Steve and the change, or 'redirection' happened... Perhaps it was seeing the faces of the executives he executed. Whatever...

 

[jayducharme]

Great read, thx!

Is the entire interview posted somewhere? All I can find are the few quotes in this article. The C2SV website seems to have nothing on it.

EDIT:
This article is a pretty good summary:

http://www.sv411.com/index.php/2013/09/c2sv-recap-steve-wozniak-nolan-bushnell-life-silicon-valley-steve-jobs/

 

[kingtj]

Mighr be more deserved than people realize ....

While Jobs always got the limelight, I think it's also fair to say that Apple wouldn't have ever existed if it wasn't for Woz building the first machine.

IMO, Apple screwed Woz over when it really started taking off as a successful company. Lucky for Jobs, Woz was in many ways the polar opposite of his own personality ... not at all the type to hold a grudge or seek revenge. As Woz has said many times, he's a very "open" guy; almost too much so at times. He likes to get out and mingle with the general public and will take an email or a phone call from anyone who wants to chat with him. Jobs, by contrast, was very secretive and protective of his personal life, and careful who he rationed out time with.

Given the circumstances, I don't fault Woz for giving himself some praise ... Jobs has several books written about him already plus the movie, and is credited pretty much everywhere as the inspiration behind every single product Apple has released.

Truth is though, the man couldn't ever build a single circuit board or even code worth a darn. (At least Bill Gates knew how to program!) If Apple brought Woz back on to work with the likes of Johnny Ives, it could really have released some incredible technology.

Really interesting read and you kind of have to take Woz mostly at his word on things but personally he always seems to praise himself for things over Jobs's efforts.

Its a shame as I try to like Woz as the work he has done on his own merits brought us personal computing that we recognise today and we know Jobs was more creator than engineer but iunno when ever Woz talk about him there seems to be something there.

 

[kingtj]

Umm, yeah...

Because staying thin sure is helping Steve Jobs lead a long, healthy life!

Woz, try the Subway diet. You look 9 months pregnant... you're cutting years off your life.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

IMO, Apple screwed Woz over when it really started taking off as a successful company. Lucky for Jobs, Woz was in many ways the polar opposite of his own personality ... not at all the type to hold a grudge or seek revenge. As Woz has said many times, he's a very "open" guy; almost too much so at times. He likes to get out and mingle with the general public and will take an email or a phone call from anyone who wants to chat with him. Jobs, by contrast, was very secretive and protective of his personal life, and careful who he rationed out time with.

Given the circumstances, I don't fault Woz for giving himself some praise ... Jobs has several books written about him already plus the movie, and is credited pretty much everywhere as the inspiration behind every single product Apple has released.

Truth is though, the man couldn't ever build a single circuit board or even code worth a darn. (At least Bill Gates knew how to program!) If Apple brought Woz back on to work with the likes of Johnny Ives, it could really have released some incredible technology.

Jobs without Woz would have been a Jobs in a homeless shelter, or beaten to death because he was such an *******. Put Steve Jobs in our lives, and he would probably alienate EVERYONE and die alone.

I think everyone that stuck with Steve, even if it was just for the eventual profit from the company, deserves a lot of respect. Woz more so than others.

Am I hard on Jobs? Perhaps... If it wasn't for his mind, Apple wouldn't exist. Some respect from him for the people that made his position possible would have been good. Zen like even... Here's to the crazy ones... To misquote 'The Dude, 'He treats objects like people'...

“You’ve probably already hired the next Steve Jobs, but all of their work product is ending up on the cutting room floor” -- Very true...

 

[bbeagle]

Woz is a genius - just ask him.

Just for once it would be nice if Woz showed some humility.

Wow. You must know the wrong Woz then.

He practically invented the personal computer for the masses. Before Woz, someone had to make their own computer from parts, he was the leader of a company which made the first one. He can't brag about this at all?

Read his books. He shows a lot of humility saying that he was in the right place at the right time with the right partner. Someone was bound to create the first mass-market personal computer in that time period, and it happened to be Woz and Jobs. And Woz says that if he never met Jobs, there would be no Apple, Woz would have still made computers, but for himself instead.

 

[Marty Goldberg]

Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak and Atari founder Nolan Bushnell held an hour-long talk at the C2SV Technology Conference which MacRumors

Oddly, you make a point of calling Woz co-founder of Apple, but then call Bushnell founder of Atari. Bushnell was a co-founder of Atari, which he did with partner Ted Dabney.

As far as why Breakout was wirewrapped, that was the standard format prototypes were submitted in before Production moved it to the regular production PCB format.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Woz uses and likes Android devices so it's difficult to take him seriously anymore.

Sad and scary, all at the same time.

I guess he understands the usefulness of file systems, multitasking, expandable storage.........