Still Waiting for Mac Pro Updates, Suitable Intel Processors Due in Q4

[crazy dave]

I don't see them eliminating the Mini, it's 1/2 the price of the 21.5" iMac for a good reason. Also, the reviews of the new Mini's have been really, really good, and its a product that gives Apple the chance to sell even more $999 Displays, not to mention mice / magicpads and keyboards, and does A LOT of things that the Apple TV can't.

Review of the MacBook were good too when it was released, popular too with vocal proponents, and remember the Mini is supposedly for those who already have their monitors, keyboards, peripherals - not people looking to get new ones. The thunderbolt display while yes may be great for a mini user, why would they go that route that when a 27 inch iMac gets them something much more powerful for $100 (<7%) more? Apple seems more to be marketing the thunderbolt machines as docks for laptops rather than monitors for desktops. And as for switchers, laptops not desktops comprise the majority of first time switchers. So the alternative to a PC solution is being taken up by that.

AppleTV + app store (which it doesn't have ... yet) with integrated iPhone + iPad support through airplay seems to be where Apple is heading with its media center. Again, I'm not saying this will happen next cycle, but two cycles from now? Already from the mini Front Row is gone on the software side and the DVD player is gone from the hardware side ... the main difference between the AppleTV and the mini are now components that given what Apple is emphasizing on how media should work and the role of a media center aren't necessary.

That just leaves its role as home server - easily replaced by a new Mac Pro model.

The Mac Pro becomes the computing generalist acting as part pro-server and computer, part home-server and computer. The Apple TV takes over as a media center and the laptops remain as the main "switch-to" device. The iMacs remain as the all-in-one solution.

EDIT: BTW I am not necessarily advocating for this, but given Apple's past and current moves in product lines this seems to be the direction they are moving.

 

[WardC]

And out of that 25% (The desktop portion of Mac sales), I would conjure the Mac Pro section makes up less than 1% of that, with the majority being iMac and Mac Mini sales. I have been into the Apple Store here countless times, and I have never seen one person buy a Mac Pro.

 

[GoKyu]

Come on, the brand was "Apple Computer, Inc.", would they really drop the computer part?

If they do drop all Macs, they will at least give us a device that can do mostly the same functions as a computer.

As was already stated, they DID already drop "Computer" from the name "to more closely reflect the direction the company is going", or something to that effect, from Steve's keynote a few years back...

And they can't ever drop "ALL" Macs - what will the developers write their code on? iPads? I can't see Apple *ever* allowing something as major as a free-standing compiler running on iOS - if the device even has enough power and memory *to* compile things at all.

 

[Icaras]

Review of the MacBook were good too when it was released and remember the Mini is supposedly for those who already have their monitors, keyboards, peripherals - not people looking to get new ones. The thunderbolt display while yes may be great for a mini user, why would they go that route that when a 27 inch iMac gets them something much more powerful for $100 (<7%) more? Apple seems more to be marketing the thunderbolt machines as docks for laptops rather than monitors for desktops. And as for switchers, laptops not desktops comprise the majority of first time switchers. So the alternative to a PC solution is being taken up by that.

That doesn't stop Apple from the possibility of selling more accessories to the Mini user. Apple can only gain, and nothing to lose by selling the Mini. Maybe the Thunderbolt display isn't a popular add-on purchase when buying a Mini, but those few who do buy contribute to sales.

As for the small input accessories (Magic Mouse, Magic Trackpad, etc.), I'm pretty sure those are pretty popular add-on purchases when getting the Mini.

 

[crazy dave]

That doesn't stop Apple from the possibility of selling more accessories to the Mini user. Apple can only gain, and nothing to lose by selling the Mini. Maybe the Thunderbolt display isn't a popular add-on purchase when buying a Mini, but those few who do buy contribute to sales.

As for the small input accessories (Magic Mouse, Magic Trackpad, etc.), I'm pretty sure those are pretty popular add-on purchases when getting the Mini.

Sure as they would be for iMacs and the at-the-moment-only-fanciful future Mac pro. And popular add ons for the AppleTV are iPads, iPod Touchs, and iPhones.

Apple likes minimalism and dislikes overlap in product lines. If you look at the computer with the most overlap in what it is supposed to do with other Apple product lines - it's the mini.

I'll admit this pure speculation on my part. I have no "in" with Apple. But people on here were writing the eulogy for the Mac Pro and I feel like the mini is the more likely candidate for the chopping block.

 

[Kingpin52]

Buy AMD?? Only $4.5 Billion.

what if bought Amd? they do have all that cash sitting around. Heck they could leverage all the IP and make themselves a tightly integrated system so competitive that could force MS to consider merging with Intel...

I'm just saying, they have ALL THAT CASH..... that is all!

should seriously consider buying AMD. At a current market cap of only $4.5 Billion for AMD it wouldn't even be a blip on the radar for Apple.

It would be like giving the middle finger to Intel. It would force all those Windoze boxes and laptops from Sony, Samsung and Dell to use more expensive Intel chips at Intel's release rate. All those companies that are suing Apple will instantly lose a major supplier. Meanwhile, Apple would gain full control over price, features and release dates on their chips.

If Intel can't meet the low power requirements that Apple wants, I'm sure the AMD purchase would be more appealing.

 

[-hh]

You think they want to screw with their entire Pro market? Not gonna happen. That's a LOT of people.

Unfortunately, that "LOT" is lost in the noise of "millions" of mainstream iConsumers.

I'm very disappointed in this. I need a new desk top NOW as my G5 simply won't suffice any longer and I was really looking forward to getting a new Mac Pro...

Retrospectively, I probably should have replaced my home G5 back at the 2009 bump, since the 2010 bump was IMO disappointing. Work has been too busy to have much personal creative free time, so I've not considered (too seriously) a mini or an iMac as an interim solution...

the current mac pro is the most up to date xeon line intel makes you wanting a new computer instead of the current one will not change that...

It may very well be the 'fastest Xeon', but who cares what the name is on the CPU? Consider how well the new i7 CPUs do...the current MBP 13" with the BTO CPU bump benchmarks at roughly 80% of my 2009 Mac Pro...now if only I could put an equal amount of RAM in that MBP...

I don't disagree, but I think unlike cutting servers or professional video editors off (the latter still having options on the Mac side via other companies), cutting the professionals content creators or developers off *would* hurt them on the consumer side over time. While consumers certainly make up most of their audience, I'd like to think that Apple should remember that it's the pros that create the content and Mac/iOS apps that consumers purchase Apple devices for in the first place.

This is a very important part: some segments need to be maintained for long term Strategic purposes, even if they're not profitable. If Apple starts making more overt "Spreadsheet Analysis" business decisions, it is an incontrovertible sign of the start of their inevitable decline. Yup, that's Steve's own line about letting the beancounters run the company.

Think about it, in order for Apple to upgrade the Mac Pro they need to have something to upgrade it with. It amazes me that the Mac Pro whiners don't grasp this little detail.

True, it isn't new news ... but perhaps in making it be news, we might get an official "Have Patience" statement from Apple.

First off grow a pair. 1. XServe died because sales sucked, it was a business decision.

See above "long term strategic" comment. Its sales may have been poor, but if you had developed a loyal following, cutting them off will piss them off forever.

You obviously don't 'need' the extra power and cores if you're still poking along with any PPC machine, a machine that is outclassed by even the lowliest mini at this point. The new entry level mini Geekbench scores are roughly double those of a quad G5, for reference.

True, the CPU is long in the tooth. But please let me know how I can install a few full sized 3.5" drives for a RAID in a mini ... or in an iMac for that matter.

Do keep in mind also that it isn't necessarily only about having 2 or 3TB in capacity ... there's also the "All Eggs with No Backup Basket" element, if you try running everything off of just one spindle. Sure, you can go with a row of externals (particularly if you want a RAID 1), but it can quickly become a royal pain to have to then have multiple power strips for all of the bricks that power that row of externals.


-hh

 

[wallysb01]

And the Mac Pro isn't actually that expandable compared to comparably-priced workstations. Even my $700 Dell XPS has 3 free PCIe slots (and 6 memory slots, instead of 4 on the single socket Mac Pro).

The Dell Xeon dual-socket supports 192 GiB of RAM (12 slots), has 7 PCI slots and standard eSATA.

Exactly, many of us are simply waiting for OSX and Unix that can support this kind of power. Having gotten comfortable with Unix, having other computers in our work network being macs, and a work flow with Unix, its rather frustrating that the best the Mac Pro can offer is 96 GB of Ram (which I think is even unsupported). So, I guess we could take the plunge into Ubuntu Linux, but I'd rather just have a Mac capable of 256 GB of Ram, at least. And at the prices they now offer the Mac Pro for, relative to the competition, that really should be an upgradable option.

 

[AidenShaw]

This is a very important part: some segments need to be maintained for long term Strategic purposes, even if they're not profitable. If Apple starts making more overt "Spreadsheet Analysis" business decisions, it is an incontrovertible sign of the start of their inevitable decline. Yup, that's Steve's own line about letting the beancounters run the company.

But, it seems the beancounters won on the XServe product line. A very sad moment.

 

[crazy dave]

Unfortunately, that "LOT" is lost in the noise of "millions" of mainstream iConsumers.



Retrospectively, I probably should have replaced my home G5 back at the 2009 bump, since the 2010 bump was IMO disappointing. Work has been too busy to have much personal creative free time, so I've not considered (too seriously) a mini or an iMac as an interim solution...




It may very well be the 'fastest Xeon', but who cares what the name is on the CPU? Consider how well the new i7 CPUs do...the current MBP 13" with the BTO CPU bump benchmarks at roughly 80% of my 2009 Mac Pro...now if only I could put an equal amount of RAM in that MBP...



This is a very important part: some segments need to be maintained for long term Strategic purposes, even if they're not profitable. If Apple starts making more overt "Spreadsheet Analysis" business decisions, it is an incontrovertible sign of the start of their inevitable decline. Yup, that's Steve's own line about letting the beancounters run the company.



True, it isn't new news ... but perhaps in making it be news, we might get an official "Have Patience" statement from Apple.

I think in this instance it really is a "have patience" time, but Apple are notorious for not telling people what they are going to do or giving out a timeline, hence sites like Macrumors. While great for drumming up consumer demand and surprising people with new products, this is bad for the professionals who rely on Apple and I can't offer anything but condolences for that but they've always been this way. However, in this instance it really does seem logical that they are waiting for a refresh in CPUs to refresh the form factor rather than killing the form factor. Personally I'm a fan of the 3U rack-mountable Mac Pro rumor, but we'll see how that pans out.

 

[kohlson]

Mac Pro update?

My apologies in advance if I missed this, but Apple doesn't use Core i7 in their Mac Pros. Apple uses Xeon processors in these products. Several differences, but the key between Corei7 and Xeon is dual socket -- 2 processors in one spacious aluminum package.

 

[YoGramMamma]

I'm very disappointed in this. I need a new desk top NOW as my G5 simply won't suffice any longer and I was really looking forward to getting a new Mac Pro. However, I can't see buying the current Mac Pro either given how much faster the upgrade will be and what I can build a PC for. I hate to say it but I'm going to be forced to build a Windows box and simply deal with not having OS-X then buy a Mac Pro in a couple of years when the PC has more or less paid for itself.

John

Unless you need the card slots in the MacPro for something, i'm pretty sure you could have hopped onto an iMac at any point in the last year or 2 and still had much more power than your G5. At $1999 the top end iMac of today would run circles around any G5 and give you a dope 27" screen to go with it. You could use it alongside your G5, then resell the iMac and the G5 when the new mac pro comes out. Complicated yes, but think about it. 1 purchased mac pro, plus a screen, is probably more expensive than 2 iMacs.. with 2 included screens, maybe even 3 depending on which model. If you bought a high end iMac in 2010, you could have bought another brand new one in 2011 and still been running a machine faster than your G5, while having paid less for the iMacs collectively than your G5.

Again this is all assuming you can go without the card slots... but with Thunderbolt now on the iMacs, and a few companies with external thunderbolt connected card bays already in the works... the needs for a tower are getting slimmer and slimmer... especially with there being so much time between updates, yet no price drops.

 

[MacNewsFix]

Hopefully, by the time the new processors arrive, more pro applications will have been updated to run on Lion. Also, I thought there were rumors of a Mac Pro redesign with a more compact but still easily upgradable form factor.

 

[pilkn2n]

G5 ????

Even if you're a DYI hobbyist who enjoys eternally fighting the heroic, but I'll- fated upgrade battle, wake up! The G5 lost the performance war to the MBP long ago. Now it has been dropped like a stone by the diminutive mini.

Put that G5 in the museum and run down to the nearest Apple Store. Jump on one of the high end iMacs and hold on to the seat of your pants. They fly!

 

[aliensporebomb]

Yep!

Even if you're a DYI hobbyist who enjoys eternally fighting the heroic, but I'll- fated upgrade battle, wake up! The G5 lost the performance war to the MBP long ago. Now it has been dropped like a stone by the diminutive mini.

Put that G5 in the museum and run down to the nearest Apple Store. Jump on one of the high end iMacs and hold on to the seat of your pants. They fly!

I loved my G5 2.5 dual myself but honestly it was really weak compared to the horsepower in my iMac. The G5 benched 2312 in geekbench and my iMac benches over 10,000 and for my pro uses I can run far more channels of audio and effects and virtual instruments than my G5 could.

Also, whiners about Lion should consider that under the extra features targeted for the consumers we have improved OpenGL functionality among other things.

Once it's up and running the way you like it's very similar to Snow Leopard.

 

[AidenShaw]

My apologies in advance if I missed this, but Apple doesn't use Core i7 in their Mac Pros. Apple uses Xeon processors in these products. Several differences, but the key between Corei7 and Xeon is dual socket -- 2 processors in one spacious aluminum package.

There is a single socket Mac Pro that uses a single socket-only "Xeon" (essentially, a Core i7 that hasn't had the ECC support disabled).

And some would say that the Mac Pro is "humonguous", not "spacious". Other companies ship much smaller systems with as much or more expandability.

 

[bretm]

Well.. they need to hurry it up. We need to buy new equipment this year for tax reasons. We have a Dual 2.5 G5 that is getting long in the tooth and I need MOAR CORES! Cant wait to see what the $3500 range MacPro looks like.

I certainly hope like everything else the prices get better. Technology is supposed to get cheaper!

 

[bretm]

You think they want to screw with their entire Pro market? Not gonna happen. That's a LOT of people.

Yes. I do believe they plan on screwing the Pro market. They just did screw the pro market. The writings on the wall. Discontinued Xserve. Discontinued Final Cut Server. Discontinued Final Cut Pro and replaced it with a very nice, yet very buggy, version of iMovie. Love it or hate it it is not abproduct that is in any way suitable for pro use. Zero APIs for output to a NTSC monitor make it incapable of use for broadcast without assistance. Ugh.

 

[h4lp m3]

Worst Map EVER!!1

 

[Mike Biggen]

True, the CPU is long in the tooth. But please let me know how I can install a few full sized 3.5" drives for a RAID in a mini ... or in an iMac for that matter.

Do keep in mind also that it isn't necessarily only about having 2 or 3TB in capacity ... there's also the "All Eggs with No Backup Basket" element, if you try running everything off of just one spindle. Sure, you can go with a row of externals (particularly if you want a RAID 1), but it can quickly become a royal pain to have to then have multiple power strips for all of the bricks that power that row of externals.


-hh

I was only responding to the need for power/cores. The G5 PowerMacs aren't exactly all that special in terms of storage expansion either though (two hard drives...same as the new mini). If you have a need for a ton of storage, neither the meager two drives possible in the G5 nor a string of external drives are ideal. What you'd want is a proper NAS or something similar. Multiple power strips **shakes head**

 

[MacSince1990]

In all fairness.. Apple's dropped machines with Intel's new CPUs in them before the CPUs were even announced.

 

[robertcoogan]

I can see Apple dumping it like they did the DVD internal drive, Final Cut 7 stuff, and the White Macbook. It will be the worst than all the things above combined though.

Yes, too true. My company has replaced it's Mac Pro with a Mac mini already.

A MAC MINI.

 

[MacSince1990]

Yes. I do believe they plan on screwing the Pro market. They just did screw the pro market. The writings on the wall. Discontinued Xserve. Discontinued Final Cut Server. Discontinued Final Cut Pro and replaced it with a very nice, yet very buggy, version of iMovie. Love it or hate it it is not abproduct that is in any way suitable for pro use. Zero APIs for output to a NTSC monitor make it incapable of use for broadcast without assistance. Ugh.

Yeah. I really don't understand their angle at the moment... it seems like they're cutting off pro users entirely.. unless they want to buy something like Avid, which is ... a bit pricey.

 

[Cisco_Kid]

Image

Worst Map EVER!!1

My son it's a graph, not a map.

 

[h4lp m3]

My son it's a graph, not a map.

nuh-uh!