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Doctor Q

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 19, 2002
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Los Angeles
I've done every Sudoku puzzle in the Los Angeles since they started them last month, and I've only screwed up one, where I ended up with no solution and had to back way up to try again.

It's been six puzzles a week in the Times, but apparently demand exceeded supply because the Los Angeles Times is switching to seven puzzles a week starting this coming Sunday. I'll be ready!
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
Doctor Q said:
It's been six puzzles a week in the Times, but apparently demand exceeded supply because the Los Angeles Times is switching to seven puzzles a week starting this coming Sunday. I'll be ready!

Our Times started that way too - now I think we're up to 3 a day... occasionally 4 plus the giant Samurai one on Saturdays. Ah well... bring it on!

They've just been doing super-fiendish ones for entry to the first Sudoku championships... now they were fun!
 

Doctor Q

Administrator
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Sep 19, 2002
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Los Angeles
I've done every daily Sudoku since the Los Angeles Times starting publishing them. Some take me longer than others, and it doesn't seem proportional to the difficulty ratings they assign.

I've taught myself to do them without scribbling possibilities in a cell and then erasing the ones I rule out until I have one left (as I used to do). Now I just look and think until I see another number I can fill in, and proceed one step at a time that way.

Today was my best ever performance, finishing one with a difficulty rating of "Diabolical" in 13 minutes with a pencil and no erasing. And I'm not even on steroids! On the other hand, sometimes one labeled "Gentle" takes me longer than that, so today's puzzle must just have suited me well.
 

maka

macrumors regular
Nov 4, 2002
155
8
Madrid (Spain)
I'm doing the ones published by The Guardian you can get them at http://www.guardian.co.uk/sudoku

They are created by hand (not computer generated) in Japan by the company that came up with the name Sudoku (http://www.nikoli.co.jp/puzzles/1/hand_made_sudoku-e.htm). When designing a puzzle by hand, the designer sets a path for the solver, so it makes for a more enjoyable puzzle...

I'm developing a Cocoa app to help design the puzzles manually, cause it can be quite difficult... :)
 

njmac

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2004
1,757
2
I just started to get into sudoku. I can't seem to finish the puzzles in under an hour.

Anyone have any strategy tips?
 

WildCowboy

Administrator/Editor
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Jan 20, 2005
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I'm usually pretty good at the standard Sudoku puzzles, but our Sunday paper recently started carrying the Sudoku Monster. The first one I tried (1-star rating) took me over ten hours to do. I gave up on the next couple (a 4-star and a 2-star) because they were taking me so long and I hadn't been able to do any bedtime reading because of it.
 

GilGrissom

macrumors 65816
Mar 13, 2005
1,042
1
My girlfriend is totally addicted to Sudoku! She has loads of books and works through them at blinding pace! She can finish medium to hard ones in around 10-15mins usually. Has several little apps on her notebook to do it aswell, and she has more reason to use my PowerBook now that I found a Sudoku widget!!! :D

She has tried to teach me them and I do get it, but get stuck towards the end! :confused:

Apparently if you work in rows/columns, then squares etc that helps. You need to keep switching. If you get stuck looking down or across the columns/rows, try switching to finding what numbers need to be left in each square and then see where the others are in the rows around it, that can surprisingly work! Its amazing when you see a number and kick yourself that you didnt see it earlier!!

(That last bit make sense to anyone??...no?...me neither!...GO SUDOKU!!) :cool:

Btw, anyone tried those 4x4 ones and the ones that aren't a square grid? They do them in strange star shapes and all-sorts! Boggles the mind!
 

Doctor Q

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Sep 19, 2002
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Los Angeles
There are a number of strategies to solving a Sudoku.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the many strategy guides floating around, because I like inventing my own. Perhaps there are "better" methods than the ones I might suggest.


--- One Basic Method ---

Here is a straightforward method you can use. Repeatedly apply any of these four rules, as long as you can find one that applies:

1. The 3x3 SQUARE RULE: For each 3x3 square, check where each remaining digit can go. If a given digit can be in only one cell (because all other cells in the 3x3 square have that digit elsewhere in their row or column), that cell must hold that digit.
Note: By "remaining digit" I mean any digit not already used in that collection of nine.​
2. THE ROW RULE: For each row, check where each remaining digit can go. If a given digit can be in only one cell (because all other cells in the row have that digit elsewhere in their 3x3 square or column), that cell must hold that digit.

3. THE COLUMN RULE: For each column, check where each remaining digit can go. If a given digit can be in only one cell (because all other cells in the column have that digit elsewhere in their 3x3 square or row), that cell must hold that digit.

4. THE LEFTOVER RULE: For each cell, check if all but one digit is ruled out (because every other digit occurs in the same row or same column or same 3x3 square). If so, the cell must hold that digit.

As long as any of these four rules is triggered, you get to fill in a cell and start over, since rules that didn't apply previously may now apply. If you eventually get to a stage where none of these rules applies, you'll need some fancier tricks that involve sets of cells instead of one cell at a time. But the above might be sufficient for puzzles of not-too-high difficulty.


--- Optimization ---

You can make it more efficient (and interesting) by picking the most likely rule rather than blindly churning through the rules in order. Here are three ways to pick which digit to check next or rule to try next:

1. The more you see of a given digit, the more likely it is that you can find where other cells with the same digit occur. So if you see a lot of 3's, apply all four rules looking for cells that will hold other 3's before you try less-seen digits.

2. When you apply a rule that lets you fill in a cell, look for other rules that involve the cell you just filled in.

3. The more digits that are already filled into a given 3x3 square or row or column, the more likely it is that one of these rules will help you fill in another of the cells in the same 3x3 square or row or column. So look for crowded 3x3 squares, crowded rows, or crowded columns first. Apply rules 1 and 4 to crowded 3x3 squares, rules 2 and 4 to crowded rows, and rules 3 and 4 to crowded columns.

When you first start a puzzle, Optimization #1 will usually lead you to a number of cell values. Midway through solving it, when finding the next cell to fill in can get harder, use Optimization #2, because filling in one cell is often the trigger that lets you fill in a related cell. Optimization #3 works anytime. When you get near the end, Rule 4 tends to take over.

Most important: Have fun!


If my tips help someone, I'd love to hear about it, since I spent a lot of time writing this up for you guys.
 

maka

macrumors regular
Nov 4, 2002
155
8
Madrid (Spain)
Doctor Q said:
What kind of algorithm do you have in mind?

Basically the program checks the puzzle as you build it. If a cell has to have a value, it tells you. Also you can mark the cells that will be the clues, and the program will mark the cells that can be solvable with logic using those clues. This way it's easier not to end up with a puzzle that doesn't have a solution.

Right now I'm about to start programing the more complex solving methods (pairs, triplets and remote pairs) but even without them the programs helps a lot :)
 

Doctor Q

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Sep 19, 2002
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Los Angeles
Based on popular demand, the Los Angeles Times has now moved from 7 to 8 Sudoku puzzles a week, by adding one to their weekly Friday magazine. The daily ones are in the "Calendar" section. The first of the new weekly puzzles (last Friday) didn't have a difficulty rating but was obviously a "gentle" one.

Still no Sudoku puzzles on the front page of the front section, but if popular demand keeps growing, who knows! :D
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
Doctor Q said:
Based on popular demand, the Los Angeles Times has now moved from 7 to 8 Sudoku puzzles a week, by adding one to their weekly Friday magazine. The daily ones are in the "Calendar" section. The first of the new weekly puzzles (last Friday) didn't have a difficulty rating but was obviously a "gentle" one.

Still no Sudoku puzzles on the front page of the front section, but if popular demand keeps growing, who knows! :D

By any chance, did you try to solve the Sunday LA Times puzzle? It was rated "tough," but I couldn't get through it -- and I'm at the point where I can usually solve even the more difficult Sudoku puzzles in a half-hour or so. I worked on that son-of-a-gun for hours and got nowhere!
 

greatdevourer

macrumors 68000
Aug 5, 2005
1,996
0
I did my first one just before Christmas last year (my maths teacher is obsessed), and I've hated them since. However, my younger brother adores them (you ought to see the spent puzzle books lying around the house), and his stratagy is to work on 1 number at a time (eg, 6) and try to put in all 9 of them, then move onto another number
 

Doctor Q

Administrator
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Sep 19, 2002
39,795
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Los Angeles
IJ Reilly said:
By any chance, did you try to solve the Sunday LA Times puzzle? It was rated "tough," but I couldn't get through it -- and I'm at the point where I can usually solve even the more difficult Sudoku puzzles in a half-hour or so. I worked on that son-of-a-gun for hours and got nowhere!
One of them I did in the past few days was really hard, so that must have been the one. When I found that no next move was determined uniquely, I picked a cell with three possible values and tried one possible value. That led to an impossible case (no possible solution), so I had to backtrack and try the other 2 possible values. Just by bad luck, the correct value was the third/last value I tried.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
Doctor Q said:
One of them I did in the past few days was really hard, so that must have been the one. When I found that no next move was determined uniquely, I picked a cell with three possible values and tried one possible value. That led to an impossible case (no possible solution), so I had to backtrack and try the other 2 possible values. Just by bad luck, the correct value was the third/last value I tried.

I didn't think any Sodoku was supposed to make you guess. Sodoku is a logic puzzle, and there's no logic in guessing!

The difficulty ratings on the puzzles, at least the ones they run in the LA Times, are also kind of weird. I've solved some of the supposedly most difficult puzzles in 20 minutes and struggled over some rated "moderate."
 

Doctor Q

Administrator
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Sep 19, 2002
39,795
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Los Angeles
IJ Reilly said:
I didn't think any Sodoku was supposed to make you guess. Sodoku is a logic puzzle, and there's no logic in guessing!
Agreed. From what I have read, humans who do hand-designed puzzles take care to avoid such cases, but automatically generated ones, if not checked, can indeed put you in such trial-and-error situations.
The difficulty ratings on the puzzles, at least the ones they run in the LA Times, are also kind of weird. I've solved some of the supposedly most difficult puzzles in 20 minutes and struggled over some rated "moderate."
I agree. They must generate their difficulty ratings randomly as well!
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
Doctor Q said:
Agreed. From what I have read, humans who do hand-designed puzzles take care to avoid such cases, but automatically generated ones, if not checked, can indeed put you in such trial-and-error situations.I agree. They must generate their difficulty ratings randomly as well!

The Times puzzles now have a puzzle designer byline, but I guess there's no telling if he's actually human. ;)
 

njmac

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2004
1,757
2
Doctor Q said:
There are a number of strategies to solving a Sudoku.
......

Thanks for those hints. I used your strategies to get started and now I have done about a dozen rated "easy". They take about 15-45 minutes each for me to solve. Fun game!
 

mlw1235

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2004
270
0
Milwaukee, WI
i have been hooked on these for a couple months now. I always do all 3 of the miniclip.com ones and if I'm really feeling good I go here. They have plenty of them. ;)

But they had Will Shortz on The Early Show one morning doing one with Julie and everyone. Except it was like on a giant board, I saw that and was like.....ahhaahah I KNOW how to do that. So that was cool.
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
Su Doku's successor is now here - much harder apparently although I haven't yet sat down to try it in the office.

The Times who started the Su Doku thread in the UK have now brought overSamunamupure or Killer Su Doku (there are several on the linked page)
The wrinkle is that there are now dotted lines selecting groups of cells which have a small number in them. The normal Su Doku rules apply with the added challenge that now the numbers within each dotted line have to add up to the smaller number alongside and you get no numbers to start the usual process. Looking forward to trying it...
 
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