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bushido

Suspended
Mar 26, 2008
8,070
2,755
Germany
Do really believe what you spout? Honestly, no issue with you being an Apple fan, but for goodness sake, give it a rest on the PC crap. You either have no idea what you are talking about or just want to troll. There is as much Samsung & Intel inside a PC as a Mac (which shock horror is a Personal Computer also) and they last just as long as each other. In all likelihood a 'windows' PC's can have a longer life, given the typically easier upgrade options available over a 'Mac PC'

mostly the batteries and fans seem to die rather fast on windows laptops but of course i can only speak from my own experience among my family (sony, toshiba, acer). also the whole driver mess. after 2 years i still havent found drivers that support my old old school sony vaio laptop for anything over windows vista
 

gavroche

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2007
1,454
1,571
Left Coast
Are you being serious with that last statement? There are plenty of Windows computers that can and do run strong for years.

I think all old widows machines are turned in to be installed in ATM machines. They take like two minutes between each button press. Ugh.
But you are right.... many many businesses that can't afford frequent equipment purchases are using old PCs that are still going strong for many years. Doesn't seem to be any detriment to them.
 

69650

Suspended
Mar 23, 2006
3,367
1,876
England
They've got a very confusing lineup of old and new model MacBooks at the moment. I can see them eventually simplfying things with new design 12" MB, 14" MBA, 16" MBP. That would at least mirror their 3 product desktop strategy of MM, iMac and MP.
 

Karma*Police

macrumors 68030
Jul 15, 2012
2,514
2,850
Do really believe what you spout? Honestly, no issue with you being an Apple fan, but for goodness sake, give it a rest on the PC crap. You either have no idea what you are talking about or just want to troll. There is as much Samsung & Intel inside a PC as a Mac (which shock horror is a Personal Computer also) and they last just as long as each other. In all likelihood a 'windows' PC's can have a longer life, given the typically easier upgrade options available over a 'Mac PC'

I don't think it's the hardware so much, but the software. There's something about Windows that makes the machine feel increasingly sluggish after a year or so. Case in point, since 2008, I'm on my 3rd PC laptop at work (technically 2 1/2 since I got a used one when I joined the company) while my 2008 MacBoook Pro is still going relatively strong and running the latest Mac OS X Yosemite. And it's not like I get crappy laptops at work since I work for a Windows/Android OEM. In that same timeframe, my parents are on their 2nd PC laptop and my sister just got her 3rd this Christmas. So there's definitely some truth to what that poster said. At least in my experience.
 

Cmd-Z

macrumors 6502a
Nov 14, 2014
594
666
Coyote, CA
They've got a very confusing lineup of old and new model MacBooks at the moment. I can see them eventually simplfying things with new design 12" MB, 14" MBA, 16" MBP. That would at least mirror their 3 product desktop strategy of MM, iMac and MP.
My crystal ball is saying the lineup will evolve into 12" and 14" MB, 13" and 15" MBP :cool:
 

bpcookson

macrumors 6502
Apr 6, 2012
484
90
MA
Additionally, is it necessary for Apple to solder RAM to the logic board? No. They do it because today's RAM is so reliable, that they don't have to worry about replacing it, vs. SSDs that may need replacement/upgrading in the future. However, by soldering RAM to the LB, they force users to spend much more for added RAM that has a much higher profit margin for Apple.gin for Apple. If they were to solder the SSD to the LB, they'd potentially have to replace a complete LB for a defective part (the SSD) with a much higher rate of failure, eqating to more money lost by Apple.

Come ON. If they didn't solder the RAM they wouldn't be able to design such deliciously thin machines. And for all the crazy battery nazis who detest Apple's "obsession" with thin devices, that $h!t SELLS because people LOVE IT.

The bottom line is this:
Soldering RAM is a proven design choice that just happens to lend itself nicely to monetization, which is a thing that companies do.
 

ani4ani

Cancelled
May 4, 2012
1,703
1,537
I don't think it's the hardware so much, but the software. There's something about Windows that makes the machine feel increasingly sluggish after a year or so. Case in point, since 2008, I'm on my 3rd PC laptop at work (technically 2 1/2 since I got a used one when I joined the company) while my 2008 MacBoook Pro is still going relatively strong and running the latest Mac OS X Yosemite. And it's not like I get crappy laptops at work since I work for a Windows/Android OEM. In that same timeframe, my parents are on their 2nd PC laptop and my sister just got her 3rd this Christmas. So there's definitely some truth to what that poster said. At least in my experience.

So the estimated 60% of Intel Macs that have boot camp or Paralells Windows installed don't suffer this phenomenon if it exists at all? Personally I think it is total urban myth. I have never owned a Mac PC so cannot comment on how they cope with OS updates, suffice to say, the more memory you use and tasks being undertaken with the same hardware, the harder it is to perform. I have 6 Windows machines, and I take no particular care in maintaining them, e.g defraghing drives, or cleaning up the registry, removing unwanted drivers etc, and I have zero impression that they are any slower than when I built / purchased them. For info I have a mix of media centres, gaming rigs and laptops. They all have their original OS's on them, namely W7 and W8, so maybe if I upgraded them to later versions, I might see something, but I can honestly say they have just not got slower over time, or if they have, not to a degree that is noticeable (to me at least)

I have several IPods, and IPads and quite categorically can say that my iPad 3 is much slower with iOS 8, but then I would sort of expect that?
 

ani4ani

Cancelled
May 4, 2012
1,703
1,537
I don't think it's the hardware so much, but the software. There's something about Windows that makes the machine feel increasingly sluggish after a year or so. Case in point, since 2008, I'm on my 3rd PC laptop at work (technically 2 1/2 since I got a used one when I joined the company) while my 2008 MacBoook Pro is still going relatively strong and running the latest Mac OS X Yosemite. And it's not like I get crappy laptops at work since I work for a Windows/Android OEM. In that same timeframe, my parents are on their 2nd PC laptop and my sister just got her 3rd this Christmas. So there's definitely some truth to what that poster said. At least in my experience.

Is this something to do with the complete absence of Mac software beyond what comes with the OS? I have no idea in truth, but do the vast majority of Mac owners, besides those that use them professionally, have a need for extra software beyond perhaps Office? You certainly don't buy a Mac to game to any great degree, so is it just the case that the install just stays 'fresh?' I.e as originally inatalled?
 
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Attero87

macrumors newbie
Mar 9, 2015
8
0
My questions is, when will manufacturers start putting the PCIe drives out for us to upgrade our Airs ourselves? I am ready to update my 2013 Air from 128gb to 256gb or maybe 512gb depending on price.

I'd like to buy one of these new drives and install it if the price is decent.

Would like to know aswell
 

bpcookson

macrumors 6502
Apr 6, 2012
484
90
MA
I don't think it's the hardware so much, but the software. There's something about Windows that makes the machine feel increasingly sluggish after a year or so. Case in point, since 2008, I'm on my 3rd PC laptop at work (technically 2 1/2 since I got a used one when I joined the company) while my 2008 MacBoook Pro is still going relatively strong and running the latest Mac OS X Yosemite. And it's not like I get crappy laptops at work since I work for a Windows/Android OEM. In that same timeframe, my parents are on their 2nd PC laptop and my sister just got her 3rd this Christmas. So there's definitely some truth to what that poster said. At least in my experience.

I hear ya. For me, nothing surpasses the horror of getting stuck with the old loaner laptops at work. They're only 1 or 2 generations old but they feel like the 90's all over again.
 

tmarks11

macrumors 6502a
May 3, 2010
509
32
i guess its no big deal for those people who just throw things away when the break and buy a new one. "green" indeed. Do you trade in your car when you get a flat? Sell your home when the AC breaks?
My 2011 MBA has lasted almost twice as long as any laptop I have owned (and will be going strong for at least a couple more years). The machine is well built, not what I would consider disposable.

So I am not sure why Apple is so "un-green" to you.

I like to upgrade things myself, but laptops from any manufacturer are generally not very upgradeable. Other than memory soldered onboard, the MBA is no less upgradeable than any other modern laptop. SSD and batteries are simple to swap out on the MBA.

I am not an OS X fan, but I am a fan of Apple laptops. I don't like their desktops, because I constantly upgrade my computers a piece at a time, and Apple desktops definitely don't work that way.
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
twice as fast


but you'll never see it.

Yet, if Apple didn't have it... People would complain endlessly about it.

That's how it goes.

Some people, probably 5%-10%, do see it; for the rest its business as usual.

The biggest impact is on battery life, and very slightly on latency. The quicker an operation occurs, the quicker you can go back to idle.

Race to idle. That's why quicker CPUs, memory/solid state storage is important if you're able to do it without bumping up the clock. Even if you don't use the full power of the CPU for processing. Having it quickly idle (idle with in a lowest power statel) is the future in mobile.
 
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jmazzamj

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2009
199
0
We took the SSD out of our 13" unit, put it in the 11" Air, and benchmarked it.

It worked great! The 11" was just as fast as the stock 13". Perhaps Apple will add this as a build-to-order option. Or you could just swap it out yourself later if you really want the 11" now.

Kyle
iFixit

What about the Pro 2015?
Would it be possible to swap the faster SSD from a 2015 Air and place it in a 2014 13" Pro? I successfully swapped a 256 Samsung from a 2013 Air with a 128 SanDisk I had in my 2014 Pro and sold the Air, that cost me just 30€!!
 

melendezest

Suspended
Jan 28, 2010
1,693
1,579
Mother of…wow that is fast. Now only if there was a BTO retina display option!

I believe Apple will never put a Retina screen on an MBA.

Why? Because no one would buy a Retina MBP or a Macbook (which "coincidentally" fall in the same price range.

I'm so sick of waiting for Apple to build the best machine they can, instead of building ones that are "good enough" while making the most money from them.

These artificial feature omissions really piss me off.

Damn it Apple, I'd PAY for the best you can do. Let me have it!!! :D
 

redscull

macrumors 6502a
Jul 1, 2010
849
832
Texas
i guess its no big deal for those people who just throw things away when the break and buy a new one. "green" indeed. Do you trade in your car when you get a flat? Sell your home when the AC breaks?

I once sold my car because the battery died. After 6 years!
 

wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,757
2,722
Luddites? I'm not sure you know what that means. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't say that, at least in this case. For instance, replacing the SSD within any Apple laptop now voids the warranty of said product, even though it's arguably easier to replace now than it ever was.

Additionally, is it necessary for Apple to solder RAM to the logic board? No. They do it because today's RAM is so reliable, that they don't have to worry about replacing it, vs. SSDs that may need replacement/upgrading in the future. However, by soldering RAM to the LB, they force users to spend much more for added RAM that has a much higher profit margin for Apple.gin for Apple. If they were to solder the SSD to the LB, they'd potentially have to replace a complete LB for a defective part (the SSD) with a much higher rate of failure, eqating to more money lost by Apple.

There are more examples, but I don't feel like continuing, so...
You're assuming that many Apple users would or want to replace their RAM. Sorry but that's just not the user base of Apple products anymore. Maybe 10 years ago when Apple charged a premium for RAM it was but not now. Most users just want a new Apple product they can pull out of the box and use. They stop thinking about the extra $300 they spent on RAM as soon as they here the startup chime.
 

subsonix

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2008
3,551
79
Yet, if Apple didn't have it... People would complain endlessly about it.

That's how it goes.

It's a feature people didn't know existed as on option on a laptop until yesterday.

Race to idle. That's why quicker CPUs, memory/solid state storage is important if you're able to do it without bumping up the clock. Even if you don't use the full power of the CPU for processing.

Disk performance is the biggest bottleneck next to memory, both have lagged behind a lot in comparison to the CPU. What good is a fast CPU if it has to sit around waiting for data to come in from memory, or worse, disk. A lot of real world applications are I/O bound..

140364245678419.jpg
 

Belmont31R

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2012
387
33
I believe Apple will never put a Retina screen on an MBA.

Why? Because no one would buy a Retina MBP or a Macbook (which "coincidentally" fall in the same price range.

I'm so sick of waiting for Apple to build the best machine they can, instead of building ones that are "good enough" while making the most money from them.

These artificial feature omissions really piss me off.

Damn it Apple, I'd PAY for the best you can do. Let me have it!!! :D


The 13" rMBP actually has a smaller footprint and is thinner than the 13" MBA at both laptop's thickest point. The MBP just doesn't have the wedge shape and weighs a little more.
 

wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,757
2,722
I believe Apple will never put a Retina screen on an MBA.

Why? Because no one would buy a Retina MBP or a Macbook (which "coincidentally" fall in the same price range.

I'm so sick of waiting for Apple to build the best machine they can, instead of building ones that are "good enough" while making the most money from them.

These artificial feature omissions really piss me off.

Damn it Apple, I'd PAY for the best you can do. Let me have it!!! :D

You're confusing the best and most powerful Mac with portability. Those 2 attributes will never be in the same computer. Just buy a Mac Pro and make sure you have a monitor for it. They are light and very portable, just not useable on a plane or on the go or on your lap...but then why would you need the most powerful computer they can make when you are on a plane?
 
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