The Jaguar Thread (Mac OS X 10.2)

[Project Alice]

With 10.5 (I think 10.5.3+ specifically), it’s a two-step process.

The first is to change the CI_NO_BACKGROUND_IMAGE value to 1.

Then, under Desktop & Screen Saver, select the ”Translucent Menu Bar” box. It’s counter-intuitive, but when setting that variable to “1” (making it opaque), the “grey” layer is set to an opaque setting with no transparency (this grey layer, I believe, is what I think serves as a transparency mask for the alpha channel), and when coupling it with the checkbox to “go transparent”, it disappears the grey mask layer entirely, leaving behind the white under-layer.

View attachment 1806849

You’ll need to restart the WindowServer with a reboot for these effects to fully take hold.

I didn't think about this at the time.. But Leopard does not provide the option to enable or disable transparency on a non CI (or in my case a GF5200). How do you get the option to appear, or work around it to get the white menu bar?

Edit: Disregard. I didn’t realize Onyx had the ability to do this. I have solved the problem using Onyx.

 

[mectojic]

Just realised that Jaguar (and Panther) don't have a built-in Dictionary application.

Anyone know of a good dictionary and thesaurus for Jag? (MS Office sucks, but I'll use it if necessary)

 

[lepidotós]

I keep getting this error when trying to install Jaguar from CDs I burned myself at 8x. The only forum post I could see that mentions it says that it's due to a bad CD drive, and I wouldn't be surprised. It gets past the Apple logo and loads up to a blue background and usable cursor before crashing.
​

 

[Amethyst1]

I keep getting this error when trying to install Jaguar from CDs I burned myself at 8x.

What machine are you trying to install on? Did the CDs verify OK?

 

[lepidotós]

Donatello, and yes, all the CDs verified good... at least, according to Disk Utility, though I rarely hear good things about DU. I actually burned a second CD 1 just to make sure, since the first one didn't.​

 

[Amethyst1]

Donatello

Can you be more specific?

 

[lepidotós]

All the machines are in my signature -- but it's my Lombard.​

 

[Amethyst1]

All the machines are in my signature -- but it's my Lombard.​

My bad for having sigs disabled

Do other OSes run fine on it? If they do, I'd indeed suspect the optical drive first, followed by a possibly bad image. Otherwise, I'd look into possible problems with the RAM.

 

[lepidotós]

Oh yeah, I do have that 512 stick in... I'll swap in the old 64 and see if that changes anything. X DP2 installed and, uh, runs perfectly fine, OpenBSD was... a hassle but got there in the end though it's DoA until I get ethernet for it, but I haven't been able to install 8.1 (to be fair, I don't think the image I have is bootable) or X DP1 (it hangs). All of these but the very last with the original 320MB total.
Doesn't seem to be the RAM, it still gives me code 138. Are USB CD drives bootable?​

 

[Doq]

I wonder how much space a Jaguar installation stripped down to the bare minimum necessary to run Classic would need.

So I came across this post while looking for something else and went "hm, maybe I should try this".

A base installation of Jaguar with all optional features removed and Classic added back in is 1.13 GB, though it may be possible to be well under a gig with more extreme slimming measures.

I may dive deeper in. Perhaps make a 'distribution' out of it for Macs that can't run OS 9 natively, either officially or with the MacOS9Lives Disc. The Companion, for reasons I can't quite figure out beyond DO-QUIESCE, falls into this camp, so it might be a neat experiment.

 

[mectojic]

So I came across this post while looking for something else and went "hm, maybe I should try this".

A base installation of Jaguar with all optional features removed and Classic added back in is 1.13 GB, though it may be possible to be well under a gig with more extreme slimming measures.

I may dive deeper in. Perhaps make a 'distribution' out of it for Macs that can't run OS 9 natively, either officially or with the MacOS9Lives Disc. The Companion, for reasons I can't quite figure out beyond DO-QUIESCE, falls into this camp, so it might be a neat experiment.

Not sure if you've done these, but some slimming down suggestions:

You could use an old version of "Monolingual" to remove non-English languages from all applications.
You can also go to System/Library and delete the Screen Savers folder, and most of Apple's pre-installed fonts in the Fonts folder.
Also you've probably done this already, but deleting most Jaguar applications (Chess, Sherlock, iChat etc) would remove more space.

 

[Amethyst1]

A base installation of Jaguar with all optional features removed and Classic added back in is 1.13 GB, though it may be possible to be well under a gig with more extreme slimming measures.

Charlessoft’s BootCD creates a minimal version which fits on one CD — this was what I had in mind as a base.

 

[Doq]

Charlessoft’s BootCD creates a minimal version which fits on one CD — this was what I had in mind as a base.

Okay. I used this as a base and using this as a base I:

- Reenabled read/write on the root filesystem-- given this was designed originally to be burned to a CD the root was read-only by default (and actually it's put into Installer mode, reversed that)
- Got rid of the borderline useless ramdisk it created, which actually caused some breakage because a lot of the user Library was copied to the ramdisk, not anymore.
- Had to put the core Classic components back as Charles' disk strips this-- I didn't realize until I was booted in and running that Classic Startup was removed and Classic kept throwing error 22 at me until I figured it out.
- Somehow ended up in a bootloop for a while.

And after all that, I finagled it down to just around 550 MB and leaving only the corest of OS X applications and even culling the OS 9 applications a fair bit. I'm actually a bit afraid of stripping more because the clock in the X menubar I believe keeps crashing and does some odd flickering shenanigans.

It'll fit comfortably and with room to spare inside 1 GB.

If there is enough interest I might polish it up and build a disk image. The biggest issues with it right now are the aforementioned clock flicker and the base being 10.2.7 instead of 10.2.8 (an oversight by me that was too late by the time I noticed).

 

[mustagcoupe]

I am definitely interested in a disk image. If you need someone to do some testing I am also interested.

 

[Amethyst1]

And after all that, I finagled it down to just around 550 MB and leaving only the corest of OS X applications and even culling the OS 9 applications a fair bit.

Now that's way more like it I've been wanting to do the exact same thing for quite some time (since I wrote the post you replied to actually) but never got round to actually getting started, so many thanks for taking the plunge.

If there is enough interest I might polish it up and build a disk image.

I'd definitely be interested in this.

 

[Doq]

https://placeholder.directory/Vintage_Jaguar.dmg

Still has the Bus Error that keeps freaking SystemUIServer out but I did update the base to 10.2.8. Despite the menu goof it does work and does do what it's meant for at its size so it's suitable for an initial concept build.

750MB partition or larger required. Not because it needs that much but because that's how much diskutil allocated to my build partition.

I think "Vintage Jaguar" is a good name for this project. It correctly portrays what it's meant for while not being entirely tacky like "Classic Jaguar" would be.

AirPort is a weird situation because without SystemUIServer, it needs to be configured in System Preferences and Jag's network settings are quite odd coming from a Tiger/Leopard background.

 

[Amethyst1]

I think "Vintage Jaguar" is a good name for this project. It correctly portrays what it's meant for while not being entirely tacky like "Classic Jaguar" would be.

Awesome. Maybe you should start a new thread about this so that it has a chance to be noticed by more members instead of being somewhat hidden in here

 

[lepidotós]

Well, at least now I have an idea why I can't install Jaguar on this laptop. I mean, I had my suspicions, but this is pretty much confirmation. If only I could fix the drive itself and not just have to buy a replacement.
The drive is also incredibly loud now for some reason.
And video:

 

[Macbookprodude]

I keep getting this error when trying to install Jaguar from CDs I burned myself at 8x. The only forum post I could see that mentions it says that it's due to a bad CD drive, and I wouldn't be surprised. It gets past the Apple logo and loads up to a blue background and usable cursor before crashing.
View attachment 1959172​

This looks like a PC windows error, in fact I think it is. With Mac, you would get a kernel panic.

 

[lepidotós]

It's actually a BSD error, I'm in verbose mode (⌘V). Also, how would I possibly get a Windows text-mode error screen on a PowerBook G3 Lombard. I know NT did get a few PPC releases, but Macs sadly (or maybe less so in the case of Windows) aren't CHRP-compliant enough.​

 

[Macbookprodude]

True, but in my years of Macs I never saw that kind of error. Then again, I never played with Jaguar.. My beginning with Mac started in late 1999-2001, I heard about OS X, but was on OS 9 mainly as I had to sell off my G4 350 then it was a G4 500 and the processor moduele cost me like 500 dollars at the time, but I was not satisfied with sawtooth 350, so I had to have G4 500 processor. When I got a mac back in 2004-2005, already I was using Panther and then Tiger - rest is history, so I have no experience with how Jaguar,Puma, Cheetah loaded up.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Come to think of it if I installed Jaguar on my PB G4 Titanium, and used ethernet would it download all the updates ?

 

[Amethyst1]

Come to think of it if I installed Jaguar on my PB G4 Titanium, and used ethernet would it download all the updates ?

No. Software Update doesn't work on it anymore.

 

[Amethyst1]

True, but in my years of Macs I never saw that kind of error. With Mac, you would get a kernel panic.

Only if a very severe problem occurs. Being unable to read from a CD is child's play in that context.

 

[mectojic]

Is there any way to get Jaguar onto an iMac G5, especially an early one (the originals came with 10.3.5)?
Would really help enable Classic support on a very nice AIO machine.