USB 2.0 in a G4 Cube

[EmilioCube]

I dont know which chip is responsible for controlling USB on the Cube‘s motherboard, but is there a way to solder some USB 2.0 controller chips on the motherboard so one could use USB 2.0? I dont want to do this myself but just want to give the enthusiasts an idea for their next project.
Mabe its as easy as replacing a small chip which controls the two USB ports with one that is a few years newer and lets the ports use USB 2.0… I dont know

 

[ToniCH]

is there a way to solder some USB 2.0 controller chips on the motherboard so one could use USB 2.0?

Nope, not gonna happen.

You are better off using file sharing or a Firewire connected ssd-drive for file transfers.

 

[EmilioCube]

Whats file sharing?

 

[headlessmike]

Whats file sharing?

Over a network connection. You can make folders or drives accessible over the network and that would be faster than using USB 1.1.

 

[EmilioCube]

Okay, Ill give that a try.
Another crazy idea: connect the cube OVER a firewire cable OVER a firewire to ide enclosure OVER an ide to sata adapter OVER a sata cf card reader OVER a cf to sd card adapter OVER a sd to micro sd adapter to a micro sd card. If one manages that all parts are not cheap rubbish I think the speed of it will be limited to how fast the Micro SD card is.
Plus one idea which is not gonna work because firewire and usb use different protocols: connect the Cube OVER a firewire to usb cable OVER a usb female female adapter to a usb stick.


OVER

 

[Amethyst1]

Another crazy idea: connect the cube OVER a firewire cable OVER a firewire to ide enclosure OVER an ide to sata adapter OVER a sata sd card reader OVER a sd to micro sd adapter to a micro sd card.

Much better idea: a SanDisk FireWire CF card reader plus a [micro]SD-to-CF adapter. They can occasionally be found cheaply on eBay.

 

[EmilioCube]

There is currently one online for 150 euros so I wont buy that but thanks, I enabled notification for that search!
Edit: I found one from Lexar that doesnt look that nice as the SanDisk one looks but only goes for around 30 euros.

 

[ToniCH]

I have 3 Firewire drive enclosures. They sure are handy with PPC Macs and Mac Pro etc. The newest one (OWC Mercury) even has USB 3.1 and Firewire 800 -connections. So, I can connect it via USB to any of my machines and via Firewire to those with USB 1 or 2.

There is many other brands with boxes that have both USB and FW -connectors. Like Lacie, G-technology, MacAlly. etc. Some even have eSata too.

The FW 400 is in real life faster than USB 2 even though they have the same theoretical transfer speed.

 

[Amethyst1]

The FW 400 is in real life faster than USB 2 even though they have the same theoretical transfer speed.

USB 2.0 is theoretically faster (60 vs. 50 MB/s) but even on my 2011 MBP I only get about 35 MB/s.

 

[ToniCH]

The problem with USB is that it uses the computers CPU vs. Firewire which has all control electronics in FW controller itself. So, fw wastes less resources and is thus somewhat faster IRL. And its sometimes easier to boot PPCs from FW than USB. So, FW and PPC are really a good match.

USB 3 is then faster than even FW800 but that is not really relevant to PPCs.

 

[EmilioCube]

USB 2.0 is theoretically faster (60 vs. 50 MB/s) but even on my 2011 MBP I only get about 35 MB/s.

USB 2.0 and especially 3.0 is tHeOrEtIcAlLy really fast. Some no name sticks with USB 3.0 have read 20MB/s for about 10 seconds and then drop down to 1MB/s. It is insane how many sticks today are a total scrap.

 

[Amethyst1]

USB 3 is then faster than even FW800 but that is not really relevant to PPCs.

And Thunderbolt is then faster than USB 3.0

Some no name sticks with USB 3.0 have read 20MB/s for about 10 seconds and then drop down to 1MB/s. It is insane how many sticks today are a total scrap.

They sure are, but I was thinking more about proper SSDs and high-quality CF cards.

 

[ToniCH]

There is currently one online for 150 euros so I wont buy that but thanks, I enabled notification for that search!
Edit: I found one from Lexar that doesnt look that nice as the SanDisk one looks but only goes for around 30 euros.

You need to improve your search routines. Just because you said that I did a search and bought one for a fraction of that silly asking price. I rarely need more than few GB at a time for transferring stuff to/from PPCs, so a 32GB card will surely fit most of my needs. I do use CF-cards with my other vintage computers so using one here too will feel natural. I hope the combo is bootable in Macs too though(?). I don't see why it wouldn't.

The Lexar is FW400 only and that is all Cube has, so if you do not plan to get any computers with FW800 then its quite perfect.

And Thunderbolt is then faster than USB 3.0

Yeah, I meant that jump from USB 2 to USB 3 was bigger than from FW400 to FW800. Thunderbolts are indeed faster as even the ancient ones run at 10Gbps (TB1) and newer ones 2-4 times faster...or more - I haven't even looked at TB4 yet.

 

[headlessmike]

The problem with USB is that it uses the computers CPU vs. Firewire which has all control electronics in FW controller itself. So, fw wastes less resources and is thus somewhat faster IRL.

This is very noticeable on older hardware. I have an external drive with USB2.0 and Firewire that I used as a Time Machine drive for my iBook when Leopard was first released. The transfer speed was practically identical with either interface, but connecting with USB would cause the computer's fan to spin up whenever a backup took place. That never happened with Firewire.

 

[for this]

This is very noticeable on older hardware. I have an external drive with USB2.0 and Firewire that I used as a Time Machine drive for my iBook when Leopard was first released. The transfer speed was practically identical with either interface, but connecting with USB would cause the computer's fan to spin up whenever a backup took place. That never happened with Firewire.

This is what UASP helps for. It is only available for USB 3 and above, though.

 

[headlessmike]

This is what UASP helps for. It is only available for USB 3 and above, though.

Good ol' SCSI lives on.

 

[dandeco]

Yeah, this is pretty much why the G4 Cube failed, with its' lack of expansion slots and a built-in fan compared to the traditional G4 tower. It was like an iMac G3 without the built-in CRT display and with a G4 system. With the G4 towers, you can at least add as USB 2.0 PCI card, the way I did with my PowerMac G4 MDD (mid-2003 model).
It reminds me of the current configurations with the Mac Studio and Mac Pro; I'm positively sure the Studio is an intentional throwback to the G4 Cube, like the Apple Silicon iMacs coming in different colors ala the iMac G3. The current Mac Pro is more or less a Mac Studio with PCI slots and an easily-replaceable SSD.

 

[EmilioCube]

Is there some sort of adapter that is a CF card but has a cable out of it with a female USB-A port? With the Firewire CF reader the Cube then would then have faster USB than 1.1

 

[ToniCH]

Is there some sort of adapter that is a CF card but has a cable out of it with a female USB-A port? With the Firewire CF reader the Cube then would then have faster USB than 1.1

Curious:
1. what are you trying to achieve with USB that you cannot do with Firewire? Even a straight connection to USB 2 controller is slower than Firewire 400, even more so if you use any kind of adapter to do the conversion between the device and the computer.
2. what are you planning to do with the Cube where you absolutely would see benefit in having faster USB?

Ps. today I bought a new Sandisk 32GB CF-card for 25 euros. So, now I have invested less than 40 euros for Sandisk FW400/800 CF-card reader + the CF-card. No further adapters needed or wanted. I don't believe this is as fast as my FW SSD -drives but I am sure it perfectly usable with my vintage Macs. I will post benchmarks for this when I have all at hand.

 

[EmilioCube]

USB 2.0 would just be nice, no matter if I need or not. USB 1.1 is okay but I like downloading big programs from my laptop and then transferring them to my Cube with sticks, better than doing all on my Cube.

Curious: What do you want to do with ~30 old Macs? Nah, just kidding.
I think none of us is one who can talk about the sense of that what we are doing here, especially if one has dozens of old macs, not just one like me.

Btw: My blue-board early 6200 just died from capacitor plague. Started a new discussion about that.

 

[Amethyst1]

Is there some sort of adapter that is a CF card but has a cable out of it with a female USB-A port?

Yes, but like any CF that isn’t mass storage, it requires a CF-I/O-compatible CF or PCMCIA slot in a laptop or PDA.

With the Firewire CF reader the Cube then would then have faster USB than 1.1

I’m very confident the reader only works with mass storage CFs.

 

[ToniCH]

I think none of us is one who can talk about the sense of that what we are doing here, especially if one has dozens of old macs, not just one like me.

Sure, I agree but I was thinking more of the practical side of things. For a fact we cannot install an USB 2.0 card into the Cube but it already has a connection that is faster - and there are drive enclosures which have both USB 2 or even 3.x and FW400/800. So, such a box can connect to both of your devices and use the fastest available connection in each end. Thinking of some kind of complicated adapter solution to upgrade the USB 1.1 to little faster seems futile as it will probably never reach full USB 2.0 speeds anyway.

And then there is the ethernet and file sharing. I think even 100T ethernet has faster theoretical transfer speed than USB 2?

But, for most of us this is a hobby and hobbies do not need to make sense to anybody else, so if you want to explore this further then by all means go for it! 👍

Yes, but like any CF that isn’t mass storage, it requires a CF-I/O-compatible CF or PCMCIA slot in a laptop or PDA.

Your linked example adds USB 1.1.

 

[EmilioCube]

Your linked example adds USB 1.1.

I laughed so hard when I saw these two numbers...
A bit of searching hasnt shown any other adapters like that, let alone these with USB 2.0...

 

[EmilioCube]

I think even 100T ethernet has faster theoretical transfer speed than USB 2?

100MBits/s < 480MBits/s

 

[ToniCH]

100MBits/s < 480MBits/s

Oh, yes - a brain fart on my part. Mixed Mb and MB in my mind.