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Shurran

macrumors member
Jan 10, 2008
39
0
Somerset, UK
I'm really happy with my mBox 2 (if you only want to use a single mic input get a mini, if not get the regular), its a bonus that it comes with Pro Tools LE for a portable mixBook - and its a really useful piece of software to know!

I'm one of the ones thats moaning so much about the lack of firewire, but I still think USB can be fine for certain circumstances.

Why do people think that increasing track counts will mean dropped packets in USB. The computer does the mixing not the interface, the comp just pipes the stereo out down to the interface for output. Its when you are using lots of IOs simultaneously that you may suffer, especially if you use an external HDD on the same bus and are streaming LOTS of tracks from it.
 

psxguru

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2006
512
0
Latency arguments aside, one of the good things about firewire is the extra bus power it can provide to peripherals. I like the fact that I don't have to use another PSU for my audio interface (PreSonus Inspire in this case)
 

localoid

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2007
2,447
1,739
America's Third World
...
One more thing to note. The new Macbook Pro's are using the **** Lucent driver for the firewire again, indicating that they aren't using the TI chipset. RME and many other manufacturers devoted pages and pages of forum support for these problematic chipsets.

There's a posting in the Cubase.net forum that appears to confirm the FireWire chipset in the new MacBook Pros are the problematic Lucent (Agere) firewire chip.

"... stopped by the Apple Store today to look at the new MBP. I booted up the machine in verbose mode (command+v) and saw what I feared was true: the new MBP uses the Lucent (Agere) firewire chip. "

Seems now that saying 'buy a Macbook Pro if you want firewire' may not be any kind of solution at all for audio heads.

Apple continues to screw up...
 

Matt Gnarly

macrumors member
Aug 14, 2008
31
0
Or buy an older plastic Macbook with firewire and deal with the case cracking issues and inferior machine.
A Blackbook is an inferior machine? For making music I'd say a Blackbook would be the better machine, just as fast as the glassbook, cheaper, and it has firewire, if you don't need the graphics processing of the glassbook why pay for it? Plus you can use the cash you save to get a decent 20"+ monitor or a actually good audio interface (Apogee Duet for example).
 

emotion

macrumors 68040
Mar 29, 2004
3,186
3
Manchester, UK
A Blackbook is an inferior machine? For making music I'd say a Blackbook would be the better machine, just as fast as the glassbook, cheaper, and it has firewire, if you don't need the graphics processing of the glassbook why pay for it? Plus you can use the cash you save to get a decent 20"+ monitor or a actually good audio interface (Apogee Duet for example).

I have a rev b blackbook. It's a lovely solid machine, far superior to my newer MBP in fact.

As for the bus power comment above. USB does that too and hot plugs better.
 

kubricks

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2008
48
0
A Blackbook is an inferior machine? For making music I'd say a Blackbook would be the better machine, just as fast as the glassbook, cheaper, and it has firewire, if you don't need the graphics processing of the glassbook why pay for it? Plus you can use the cash you save to get a decent 20"+ monitor or a actually good audio interface (Apogee Duet for example).

In terms of build quality (aluminum vs plastic for a mobile studio or performance rig? come on), ram speed clocks, screen, new gfx chips etc. It's obviously a better machine. Not giant leaps but hey, pretty clear. I also do some photography and would appreciate an updated gpu, although not what the Pro offers.

I had a white Macbook for a year and experienced probably every case related issue that existed. Mouse buttons sticking, yellowing, case cracks... Not looking forward to that again.

Anyways, I think I'm pretty close to just going for a 2.4 refurb Blackbook and being done with it. Now that the news of what firewire chipset is in the Macbook Pros has come out, the failing GPU's on the previous Pros, and the thought of using USB 2 audio cards on the new Macbooks is enough bad news.
 

kubricks

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2008
48
0
I have a rev b blackbook. It's a lovely solid machine, far superior to my newer MBP in fact.

As for the bus power comment above. USB does that too and hot plugs better.

I'm pretty certain you could not run a small 2x2 USB audio card with preamps over bus power. I could be mistaken about that though.
 

polaris20

macrumors 68020
Jul 13, 2008
2,493
762
I'm pretty certain you could not run a small 2x2 USB audio card with preamps over bus power. I could be mistaken about that though.

Granted this is on my Thinkpad, but I run my UX2 with phantom power with 2 small diaphragm condensers without issue. In fact it only has bus power; there is no AC adapter. this changes on larger amount of inputs though. For instance, the M-Audio Fastrack Pro only will do 2 on bus power; the rest you need the included AC adapter.

2 inputs at once must be the breaking point.

As for going for the Blackbook; I don't blame ya dude. It's still a solid laptop, and you can now get them for a steal of a price.

EDIT it's the FastTrack Ultra I'm thinking of. The FastTrack Pro only has two XLR pre's to begin with. the Ultra has 4, but only 2 work when on bus power.

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=USBinterfaces
 

synth3tik

macrumors 68040
Oct 11, 2006
3,951
2
Minneapolis, MN
Well as you said you didn't want FW, so then yeah USB is going to be your way of going. You will not be able to record a large number of tracks at one time, but all audio playback is done within the computer. Core Audio. You will be recording at 16bit. Which is fine, some like a higher bit rate when recording.
 

D.M.S

macrumors member
Oct 19, 2008
70
0
i just plug my guitar straight into the mac

or use the inbuilt mic for acoustic stuff
 

D.M.S

macrumors member
Oct 19, 2008
70
0
Not putting you down or anything, but that one is more "garage" that I would care to hear :p

well when you are going for a LO FI garage sound (early hellacopters,new bomb turks,hank 3 ect) it's poifect.
 

marbles

macrumors 68000
Apr 30, 2008
1,776
1
EU mostly
Must say that(obviously ) the firewire thing has me concerned a little but only really as I was about to start something up shortly and have been looking into FW equipment ...

.. I need to record some dj mixes(D&B, tech, ambient.. that kind of thing) with the best sound I can get ,without a massively crazy price tag , now I was going to go FW but if USB is enough , then that's what it'll be , .. any suggestions ?, you could really help with an impending purchase


I'm really happy with my mBox 2 (if you only want to use a single mic input get a mini, if not get the regular), its a bonus that it comes with Pro Tools LE for a portable mixBook - and its a really useful piece of software to know!

I'm one of the ones thats moaning so much about the lack of firewire, but I still think USB can be fine for certain circumstances.

Why do people think that increasing track counts will mean dropped packets in USB. The computer does the mixing not the interface, the comp just pipes the stereo out down to the interface for output. Its when you are using lots of IOs simultaneously that you may suffer, especially if you use an external HDD on the same bus and are streaming LOTS of tracks from it.
 

greenlander25

macrumors newbie
Oct 19, 2008
6
0
Anyways, I think I'm pretty close to just going for a 2.4 refurb Blackbook and being done with it. Now that the news of what firewire chipset is in the Macbook Pros has come out, the failing GPU's on the previous Pros, and the thought of using USB 2 audio cards on the new Macbooks is enough bad news.

This is what I'm doing now, I think. I was looking forward to the new macbook and intended to get one at Christmas, but when I think about it, I'm not too bothered. I do love the look of a blackbook and I have one right now, if it didn't have an old core due and was able to take more than 2 gb of RAM, I'd be holding onto it.
 

kubricks

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2008
48
0
Must say that(obviously ) the firewire thing has me concerned a little but only really as I was about to start something up shortly and have been looking into FW equipment ...

.. I need to record some dj mixes(D&B, tech, ambient.. that kind of thing) with the best sound I can get ,without a massively crazy price tag , now I was going to go FW but if USB is enough , then that's what it'll be , .. any suggestions ?, you could really help with an impending purchase

If all you need is to record on a stereo input, why not just use the onboard core audio on the Mac? Core audio can handle that easily with decent latency, and if all you're doing is recording a stereo signal, latency doesn't even matter unless you are somehow using a multi-track.
 

marbles

macrumors 68000
Apr 30, 2008
1,776
1
EU mostly
If all you need is to record on a stereo input, why not just use the onboard core audio on the Mac? Core audio can handle that easily with decent latency, and if all you're doing is recording a stereo signal, latency doesn't even matter unless you are somehow using a multi-track.
I've heard recordings that have been done directly into the machines audio port(if that's what you mean ?) and they didn't sound that great .
A variety of DJ type mixers will be used( have to check if any we use have USB out.) would getting hold of an audio interface unit ensure a 'better' quality than using core audio
I've been given a copy of Logic and fully intend to immerse myself in it for the foreseeable so I need to give this purchase enough movement to grow as we learn , I suppose I'll need 'some device' to improve the audio going into the mac from the mixer , will these use USB ?


sorry , how do I use core audio ?. **** , I'm lost here :eek:
 

kubricks

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2008
48
0
It doesn't sound like you need a quality preamp since you are recording line level inputs, so basically all you're concerned about is the AD/DA converters, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that you could tell a difference in quality between a cheap USB external card and the onboard inputs. We are talking about a DJ mix here as well, so it's not like we need to capture acoustics or live instruments. Using good recording techniques, you should be fine, unless the onboard sound is complete crap.

It sounds like you're just starting out with recording, so why not explore what your machine can do without buying a card you don't need right now?

Once you move into music production, multitracking, recording multiple streams separately, recording live instruments, or wanting low latency or something like Serato, then get your card.

Also, USB interfaces are cheap-ish so it's not going to hurt to get one of course. But if you're just recording a single stereo input, your Mac will more than do that job for you at a good quality.

By core audio I mean using your Mac's onboard sound.
 

tekmoe

macrumors 68000
Feb 12, 2005
1,726
551
I am using a Native Instruments Audio8 soundcard with my MacBook 2.4. It is USB 2.0. I'm using it with Ableton and have all 4 channel outputs going into my Xone:92 mixer. I'm running the latency around 11ms @ 48khz and have had zero issues. I might lower it down a tad just to see how far I can push it before it starts to hiccup.

So far, I am impressed.
 

marbles

macrumors 68000
Apr 30, 2008
1,776
1
EU mostly
It doesn't sound like you need a quality preamp since you are recording line level inputs, so basically all you're concerned about is the AD/DA converters, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that you could tell a difference in quality between a cheap USB external card and the onboard inputs. We are talking about a DJ mix here as well, so it's not like we need to capture acoustics or live instruments. Using good recording techniques, you should be fine, unless the onboard sound is complete crap.

It sounds like you're just starting out with recording, so why not explore what your machine can do without buying a card you don't need right now?

Once you move into music production, multitracking, recording multiple streams separately, recording live instruments, or wanting low latency or something like Serato, then get your card.

Also, USB interfaces are cheap-ish so it's not going to hurt to get one of course. But if you're just recording a single stereo input, your Mac will more than do that job for you at a good quality.

By core audio I mean using your Mac's onboard sound.


I'm terrible at getting myself across but I certainly do appreciate your reply
I'm new to recording on the digital front but have worked with various audio gear in the past , mainly sound engineering at low key gigs (indoor/outdoor), clubs etc but it's time for me to step up now and take things further , especially with audio quality and getting all the gear up to date .
(We've been using older Macs on 10.4 to record directly in the audio port)

Serato is actually a key part of what we're trying to get going here( as is the Ableton software), in fact , it's the next item on the shopping list after the machine and any other gear we need ,along with a new for the road dj mixer and bleton controlling device ( or an all in one with Midi etc ?) this is one of the main reasons I'm here asking about this kind of thing, so having someone mention it within the context I'm interested in is fantastic , thanks .
What I think we need is some device that can almost ensure good audio quality , I know I know , but I just want to record what we do with the best audio possible for our cd's etc that help pay for the gear , you know then I can be proud of not only the music but the audio quality obtained

arrgh , what to do ?.I suppose this is why no FW freaked me a little , I've been reading up on various FW cards but then MB , no FW , ......and we just bought a dual port (FW400/USB) external for storing files and working with Serato Lucky thing I didn't buy three as I intended (supplier only had one of the type I liked)...

What to do ? , start a learning curve all over again for USB working with SSL ? what to do ? I'm rambling again , and this is probably an incoherent post to most , so I'll leave it at that , and hope you guys understand what I'm talking about

so many questions , and I don't know how to express them :eek:
 

emotion

macrumors 68040
Mar 29, 2004
3,186
3
Manchester, UK
I am using a Native Instruments Audio8 soundcard with my MacBook 2.4. It is USB 2.0. I'm using it with Ableton and have all 4 channel outputs going into my Xone:92 mixer. I'm running the latency around 11ms @ 48khz and have had zero issues. I might lower it down a tad just to see how far I can push it before it starts to hiccup.

So far, I am impressed.

It's this kind of setup that I'll have next (currently 2GHz blackbook/Live6/Audiofire2/Faderfoxes -> Macbook/Live/Audio 8/Faderfoxes or maybe into my xone62). Nice to hear it works out ok.
 

HoldFastHope

macrumors 6502
Jan 15, 2008
332
0
Sydney, AU
Perhaps a test in GarageBand with something everyone with a Mac would have immediate access to? GB obviously has verbs and instruments, plus loops too. It'd probably be the most fair, unless you disagree.

I'm all for showing how good (or how bad) it is. I just don't like stuff getting misrepresented.

Just wanted to add that I'm VERY interested in this test.

I'm looking at getting either a new MB or a refurb MB/MBP and trying to decide if I need a FW or USB interface. Planning on recording one track at a time but will probably get up to 4 - 6 tracks total on average. Considering Guitar Rig 3 for USB and Presonus Firebox for FW, both using GarageBand and Ableton.
 

polaris20

macrumors 68020
Jul 13, 2008
2,493
762
Just wanted to add that I'm VERY interested in this test.

I'm looking at getting either a new MB or a refurb MB/MBP and trying to decide if I need a FW or USB interface. Planning on recording one track at a time but will probably get up to 4 - 6 tracks total on average. Considering Guitar Rig 3 for USB and Presonus Firebox for FW, both using GarageBand and Ableton.

6 tracks is nothing, even with VSTi/AU instruments. I've been running that much for ages. Even my crusty old Gateway PIII laptop handled 10 or so before I had to start "freezing" tracks in Tracktion.

I'm going to use Reaper, because it's dual platform and I'd like to see how it compares to Windows XP, and also EZ Drummer and SampleTank. I'll either bump this thread or get with Kubricks over PM and possibly start a new thread. As it's defined now, it'll be 2 separate mono tracks at at least 24bit/44.1Khz, possibly 88.2. I like sticking in multiples of 44.1Khz for dithering purposes. The I'll run a few audio tracks, a few AU and/or VSTi tracks, and see what I see. I'll most likely test it on my T61p (2.4Ghz/3GB RAM/7200rpm drive/Quadro FX), then move to the MB with the same session.

Should be interesting.
 

HoldFastHope

macrumors 6502
Jan 15, 2008
332
0
Sydney, AU
6 tracks is nothing, even with VSTi/AU instruments. I've been running that much for ages. Even my crusty old Gateway PIII laptop handled 10 or so before I had to start "freezing" tracks in Tracktion.

Really? The impression I've been getting from these forums is that you need FW for decent audio recording.

So a MacBook with USB interface could handle 6 to 10 tracks?
 
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