VERY Frustrated with my late 2007 iMac SLOOOW

[Bomb Bloke]

The fog in my memory clears - it all comes down to which "erase" tab you're using.

If you're highlighting the disk before going to "erase", then yes, I believe it'll always default to GUID.

If you're highlighting the volume on the disk, then it'll stick with whatever the drive was already set to (which could be anything).

 

[jmazzamj]

I have a late 2007 iMac 2.4 Intel Core 2 Duo with 4GB ram in it. I have a 500GB HD with 130GB free and I am running Mavericks on it. I have gone through several of the "how to speed up your mac" threads and have barely anything that starts up when the iMac is booted up. I have run the ONYX program and repaired all the permissions and all of the other things that it does. Rebooted the iMac to clear the RAM.. I don't know what else to do. This thing beachballs and takes FOREVER to open up almost any program. I run "Freememory" to make sure I am not running the RAM into the ground and even when I have 1.5GB of free RAM it still runs slow.

This thing ran WAAAY faster with Snow Leopard on it. I just don't think Apple should have even allowed my machine to be upgraded to Mavericks if they knew it was going to run this slow. It is really an embarrassment. I am not able to purchase a new iMac at this time so I am stuck with what I have. I almost wish I never upgraded to Mavericks.

Do you want your Mac to be faster than ever? Swap your HD for an SSD.
Do you prefer to spend $0 on your machine? Saying that it used to run way faster on Snow Leopard than it does running Mavericks makes me think that you have been upgrading from SL to L, ML and now Mavericks.
Even if you jumped from SL to Mavericks you should clone your HD (Super Duper or Carbon Copy Cloner will do the job), download the installer of 10.9.5, erase your HD, fresh install 10.9.5 and use migration assistant to get your data back.

 

[Mikebike125]

Do you want your Mac to be faster than ever? Swap your HD for an SSD.
Do you prefer to spend $0 on your machine? Saying that it used to run way faster on Snow Leopard than it does running Mavericks makes me think that you have been upgrading from SL to L, ML and now Mavericks.
Even if you jumped from SL to Mavericks you should clone your HD (Super Duper or Carbon Copy Cloner will do the job), download the installer of 10.9.5, erase your HD, fresh install 10.9.5 and use migration assistant to get your data back.

I went from SL to Mavericks. I had an external Lacie HD that just happened to bail out on me last week so I got a external Seagate today. I plan on doing the CCC or the Super duper onto it and then do the swap and restore from that copy. I also have a Time Capsule but I think I'm going to leave that alone. I guess I can do what Weaselboy said and just use the Time capsule which is another option but it is not connected directly to my iMac. I guess all I would need to do is just use the USB cable and do what he said.

 

[Weaselboy]

I went from SL to Mavericks. I had an external Lacie HD that just happened to bail out on me last week so I got a external Seagate today. I plan on doing the CCC or the Super duper onto it and then do the swap and restore from that copy. I also have a Time Capsule but I think I'm going to leave that alone. I guess I can do what Weaselboy said and just use the Time capsule which is another option but it is not connected directly to my iMac. I guess all I would need to do is just use the USB cable and do what he said.

For what I described to work it would need to be a Time Machine backup you made to a USB drive connected directly to the Mac. If this is a networked Time Capsule backup it won't work. You would need to from some other boot medium like a recovery key, then you could from there restore from the Time Capsule over the network. This article runs through your Time Machine restore options.

 

[Mikebike125]

That's funny, I was just checking for you.

Yes, that's the drive. I dug out the old box and it's a STCL2000400. It's 7200 rpm (fastest). I think they make 5400 as well (slower). Can't comment on how that one would perform.

Arran, will this type of drive be like a "Fusion" drive? Also, how do I put certain programs on the flash drive side or does Mavericks do this automatically behind the scenes?

For the drive, are there other drives that have more than 8GB of flash on them? I figure if there are maybe a little more $$ and I can get more flash size and more performance. Are there any with more than 8GB??

 

[Arran]

Arran, will this type of drive be like a "Fusion" drive? Also, how do I put certain programs on the flash drive side or does Mavericks do this automatically behind the scenes?

For the drive, are there other drives that have more than 8GB of flash on them? I figure if there are maybe a little more $$ and I can get more flash size and more performance. Are there any with more than 8GB??

I don't really know enough about what Apple calls their "fusion" drive to answer. Sorry.

With the Seagate drive, I believe the OS knows nothing about the flash on the drive. I think the drive itself (i.e., its firmware and hardware controller) decides what goes where to maximize speed. Something along the lines of; frequently used bytes go in flash and the rest goes on a magnetic platter. All the iMac sees is a fast hard drive. Something like a 10,000 rpm drive, perhaps. It's transparent to OS X.

In my case, I needed 2TB of storage and wasn't too worried about UI performance (as long as it was acceptable). The hybrid drive was the best compromise for me. In your situation you have a good point about paying more for more flash. I don't know what other hybrids are out there, but how about a 500 MB pure SSD as others have suggested? I think you said earlier your current drive is 500 MB and you don't use it all? It might not be all that expensive, Prices have tumbled recently.

If you go that route, I'd be really interested to hear how it performs. FWIW, I've put small-ish (80GB to 250 GB) SSDs in some of my family's MacBooks over the years with great results. The oldest is a white Core Duo MacBook (circa 2006) and that machine is still chugging along fine - even though it's stuck on Snow Leopard and barely used nowadays. Boot from cold to fully-responsive desktop is 20 seconds and shut down is near-instantaneous. I really like the speed and particularly the durability of SSDs in laptops. Those machines take a beating!

 

[SD-B]

Curious. Since my late 2009 MBP's hard drive has failed, reading this thread has made me think of installing an SSD drive into it and taking it back to Snow Leopard as well.
In my case I would not need much space. Just enough to install the OS and a few extra gigs as I have 2 other Macs and an iPad and it would be used perhaps in bed to read books with, or basic web browsing. In other words, I wouldn't even bother to put any apps on it beyond what comes with the OS and IF I needed ANY files, a USB 35gig key would be fine for it.

So.........the only other problem is that the battery is about to end as well. Once the battery dies 100% am I right in suggesting that the laptop WILL still run as long as it is plugged in? When plugged in a dead battery won't hurt it at all?
And, any idea off the top of ones head, as to a rough guess on a replacement battery for such an MBP?

IF from what I read here, I can at least use it for basic browsing, then its worth, maybe, keeping, simply in my bedroom or even just to have one to take out with me the rare times I could take one but don't wish to take a newer one out with me....?


So,

(don't want to change the the thread from his SSD questions but this is similiar enough..)

1) Rough price of battery for 2011 Late MBP?
2) Will an MBP still run once the batteries dead/kaput if plugged into the wall?

TIA

 

[lowendlinux]

Curious. Since my late 2009 MBP's hard drive has failed, reading this thread has made me think of installing an SSD drive into it and taking it back to Snow Leopard as well.
In my case I would not need much space. Just enough to install the OS and a few extra gigs as I have 2 other Macs and an iPad and it would be used perhaps in bed to read books with, or basic web browsing. In other words, I wouldn't even bother to put any apps on it beyond what comes with the OS and IF I needed ANY files, a USB 35gig key would be fine for it.

So.........the only other problem is that the battery is about to end as well. Once the battery dies 100% am I right in suggesting that the laptop WILL still run as long as it is plugged in? When plugged in a dead battery won't hurt it at all?
And, any idea off the top of ones head, as to a rough guess on a replacement battery for such an MBP?

IF from what I read here, I can at least use it for basic browsing, then its worth, maybe, keeping, simply in my bedroom or even just to have one to take out with me the rare times I could take one but don't wish to take a newer one out with me....?


So,

(don't want to change the the thread from his SSD questions but this is similiar enough..)

1) Rough price of battery for 2011 Late MBP?
2) Will an MBP still run once the batteries dead/kaput if plugged into the wall?

TIA

120 from Apple and about 15 min. or 60-80 on eBay plus a cheap proprietary screwdriver and 20 min.

Yes they'll run plugged in with a dead battery

 

[SD-B]

120 from Apple and about 15 min. or 60-80 on eBay plus a cheap proprietary screwdriver and 20 min.

Yes they'll run plugged in with a dead battery

Perfect. Thank you very much! Now I just need to decide if it is worth it for me to do

 

[lowendlinux]

Perfect. Thank you very much! Now I just need to decide if it is worth it for me to do

I did it on a 17 for a friend but had Apple do it on my wife's 13. If it were me I'd do it myself

 

[Bomb Bloke]

I don't really know enough about what Apple calls their "fusion" drive to answer. Sorry.

With the Seagate drive, I believe the OS knows nothing about the flash on the drive. I think the drive itself (i.e., its firmware and hardware controller) decides what goes where to maximize speed. Something along the lines of; frequently used bytes go in flash and the rest goes on a magnetic platter. All the iMac sees is a fast hard drive. Something like a 10,000 rpm drive, perhaps. It's transparent to OS X.

With a "regular" Fusion drive, the two separate storage mediums are "combined into one" via a logical volume group using core storage.

So the OS isn't determining on which "drive" to place the data, but it's still handled in software, not by the "fusion drive" itself. You can actually take two completely separate drives (eg an SSD and a mechanical) and use core storage to configure them in the same way.

A similar technique is used on huge (3tb+) drives in order to slip Boot Camp partitions into the middle of the partition table (as they can't be loaded from the end) while still making the two HFS+ volumes on either side appear as one.

Beats me how the Seagate drive works.

Curious. Since my late 2009 MBP's hard drive has failed, reading this thread has made me think of installing an SSD drive into it and taking it back to Snow Leopard as well.

For all the talk of SSD being "reliable", it probably goes without saying that they can still fail. What's maybe not so obvious is that when they do, they tend to go from "working fine" straight to "completely dead" - you're not as likely to get any warning signs as you'd be with a platter-based drive.

The answer, as always, is "back ups".

So.........the only other problem is that the battery is about to end as well. Once the battery dies 100% am I right in suggesting that the laptop WILL still run as long as it is plugged in? When plugged in a dead battery won't hurt it at all?
And, any idea off the top of ones head, as to a rough guess on a replacement battery for such an MBP?

It'll still "work", but depleted batteries may start to... expand. This doesn't happen overnight, of course, and won't result in the battery exploding or anything like that, but obviously if you let it get too far out of hand it can damage the system (by bending the logic board). Typically you'll first notice it when it starts disrupting trackpad operation.

This doesn't always happen, but I'd be more inclined to see if it runs with no battery at all, if you decide against a replacement.

 

[SD-B]

With a "regular" Fusion drive, the two separate storage mediums are "combined into one" via a logical volume group using core storage.

So the OS isn't determining on which "drive" to place the data, but it's still handled in software, not by the "fusion drive" itself. You can actually take two completely separate drives (eg an SSD and a mechanical) and use core storage to configure them in the same way.

A similar technique is used on huge (3tb+) drives in order to slip Boot Camp partitions into the middle of the partition table (as they can't be loaded from the end) while still making the two HFS+ volumes on either side appear as one



It'll still "work", but depleted batteries may start to... expand. This doesn't happen overnight, of course, and won't result in the battery exploding or anything like that, but obviously if you let it get too far out of hand it can damage the system (by bending the logic board). Typically you'll first notice it when it starts disrupting trackpad operation.

This doesn't always happen, but I'd be more inclined to see if it runs with no battery at all, if you decide against a replacement.

Interesting. Good Point. I still have some time left on them but will keep that point in mind. Good one. Someone did add that it will work without a battery if i decide not to bother replacing it why I assumed would be the case and just wanted it verified..

 

[Mikebike125]

I don't really know enough about what Apple calls their "fusion" drive to answer. Sorry.

With the Seagate drive, I believe the OS knows nothing about the flash on the drive. I think the drive itself (i.e., its firmware and hardware controller) decides what goes where to maximize speed. Something along the lines of; frequently used bytes go in flash and the rest goes on a magnetic platter. All the iMac sees is a fast hard drive. Something like a 10,000 rpm drive, perhaps. It's transparent to OS X.

Does anyone know if there are drives like this Seagate that may have more flash in them? The other thing is, can I buy a drive that would be like the fusion drive (which has 128GB of flash) on it? Is this even sold? I figure I should check out all the possible options before I get one of these drives. I'll get the Seagate if there are no other options out there.

 

[Mikebike125]

Ok, I have my complete system backed up using carbon copy cloner and am ready to get a new Hard drive. The Seagate drives don't seem to fair well on any of the reliability tests I have seen... Not sure if any other manufacturers have one that is similar to the Seagate SSHybrid drive. I think I am going to get something today. Any other drives out there?

 

[Thrifty1]

We replaced the hard drive in my son's 2009 iMac with an SSD... like a new machine. Boot time went from about 50 seconds to 20 seconds.

I highly recommend replacing it with a 500gb SSD (or even a 250GB SSD if the larger one is too expensive and then use external hard drive for extra storage).

I have replaced 3 hard drives with SSD: 1 iMac and 2 MacBook Pro's. Gave them all new life. I used Crucial drives and they worked great.

 

[Arran]

Ok, I have my complete system backed up using carbon copy cloner and am ready to get a new Hard drive. The Seagate drives don't seem to fair well on any of the reliability tests I have seen... Not sure if any other manufacturers have one that is similar to the Seagate SSHybrid drive. I think I am going to get something today. Any other drives out there?

Sorry, I don't know of any similar hybrid drives. I just went with the Seagate because:

• It was mechanically faster (at 7200 rpm) than the previous drive (~5400 rpm, I think),
• It had built-in flash for even more speed,
• It was available same-day from a local store (very important! )
• And I'd previously put a similar 750GB seagate hybrid drive (2.5") in my 2012 mac mini from new and it had been working great.

Not very scientific rationale, but it does make Yosemite usable on the old 2007 iMac - which was all I was really after.

On the reliability issue; Yes, I did see some of the worrisome reviews on amazon before I bought the drive, but no drive is infallible. I just keep multiple Time Machine backups and periodically archive the really important stuff (photos) offline.

 

[Mikebike125]

Sorry, I don't know of any similar hybrid drives. I just went with the Seagate because:

• It was mechanically faster (at 7200 rpm) than the previous drive (~5400 rpm, I think),
• It had built-in flash for even more speed,
• It was available same-day from a local store (very important! )
• And I'd previously put a similar 750GB seagate hybrid drive (2.5") in my 2012 mac mini from new and it had been working great.

Not very scientific rationale, but it does make Yosemite usable on the old 2007 iMac - which was all I was really after.

On the reliability issue; Yes, I did see some of the worrisome reviews on amazon before I bought the drive, but no drive is infallible. I just keep multiple Time Machine backups and periodically archive the really important stuff (photos) offline.

I ordered the drive and it should be delivered today!! I am looking forward to getting it installed.

BTW, Did you have any issues with the temperature sensor on the HD? This is just a peel off and re-attach to the new one correct? You haven't had any fans spinning out of control right??

----------

We replaced the hard drive in my son's 2009 iMac with an SSD... like a new machine. Boot time went from about 50 seconds to 20 seconds.

I highly recommend replacing it with a 500gb SSD (or even a 250GB SSD if the larger one is too expensive and then use external hard drive for extra storage).

I have replaced 3 hard drives with SSD: 1 iMac and 2 MacBook Pro's. Gave them all new life. I used Crucial drives and they worked great.

Oh, I like the idea of putting gin a pure SSD but the cost is too great. I am hoping this Seagate that Arran has suggested will do the trick. According to Seagate, it should be almost as quick. I hope they are correct.

 

[Arran]

I ordered the drive and it should be delivered today!! I am looking forward to getting it installed.

BTW, Did you have any issues with the temperature sensor on the HD? This is just a peel off and re-attach to the new one correct? You haven't had any fans spinning out of control right??

Yep. Peel off and re-attach. I think I stuck extra tape over the top the second time around.

Just checked. HDD fan's running at 1198rpm right now. I think it's been around that speed since new. Very quiet.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

It depends on the sensor. They aren't all the same, and if the one in your system isn't compatible with the new drive, then yes - your fans will run full speed all the time.

 

[Mikebike125]

Ok, the drive is in!! Interesting, the boot up time is almost the same but actually a little slower but get this... My programs like iPhoto, Mail, iTunes, MS Word, open up like LIGHTNING!! I don't really worry about the boot up time because my computer just sleeps and I just wake it from sleep. The programs opening up super fast is EXCELLENT!!! I love this. Now my iMac has new life. I am really happy. Thanks Arran!! I hope this stays running like this.

 

[OldMike]

Ok, the drive is in!! Interesting, the boot up time is almost the same but actually a little slower but get this... My programs like iPhoto, Mail, iTunes, MS Word, open up like LIGHTNING!! I don't really worry about the boot up time because my computer just sleeps and I just wake it from sleep. The programs opening up super fast is EXCELLENT!!! I love this. Now my iMac has new life. I am really happy. Thanks Arran!! I hope this stays running like this.

That's great news. As far as boot up time goes, I had a similar hybrid drive in a Macbook Pro and it seems as though the speed improved greatly after a few restarts (I think the drive was learning exactly what to put in the small block of SSD). In my Macbook Pro I also needed to do a PRAM reset because it was hanging a little before starting to boot.

 

[timsun28]

Here is something to consider....

If you boot snow leopard and then check for how many files are open by the OS, you get a few hundred. If you boot Mavericks/Yosemite, you get 10-20X more. These newer operating systems have open files all over the place and older HDDs have a real hard time keeping up with this.

This is one of the biggest reasons that SSDs make such a huge impact on the older macs (my opinion). They have an IOPS (file operations per second) that is 50-100X better than HDDs even if their sustained large write/read is only 2X better.

My 2009 iMac showed me this first hand. It was so fast with Snow Leopard but crawled along until I added an SSD. Now it feels just has fast as it did when I bought it.

May i ask what ssd you installed in your iMac 2009? And was it hard to do? Or did you let someone else do it?
I have an iMac mid 2010, but can't seem to find a good ssd that supports sata.
Thanks,
Timsun

 

[ssls6]

May i ask what ssd you installed in your iMac 2009? And was it hard to do? Or did you let someone else do it?
I have an iMac mid 2010, but can't seem to find a good ssd that supports sata.
Thanks,
Timsun

I used a Samsung 840 Evo 500GB.

I installed the SSD into the optical drive bay using a data doubler bracket from OWC (macsales.com). They also have a hard drive kit complete with solution from the thermal sensor fan thing. I bought their tool kit as well.

I did the work myself using the information on IFixit. The job took me an hour by myself. There are some videos as well if you google around.

I had an alternative...I found a computer repair place in Dallas that wanted $180 for the work. You can search for Mac repair locations near you and find something. Even apple uses local repair locations for some of their work.

For Yosemite and even Mavericks, an SSD makes a pretty big difference. I use SSD nows in a 2012 MacPro, 2010 iMac, 2009 iMac.

 

[Mikebike125]

That's great news. As far as boot up time goes, I had a similar hybrid drive in a Macbook Pro and it seems as though the speed improved greatly after a few restarts (I think the drive was learning exactly what to put in the small block of SSD). In my Macbook Pro I also needed to do a PRAM reset because it was hanging a little before starting to boot.

I think to reset the PRAM, you're supposed to push and hold the power button in when the power cord is pulled out...... I think.. I did that before the first startup so if that is how you reset it, I guess I did it. Still, maybe with more usage it will start up quicker however I rarely restart it, I just wake it up from sleep. Many of the most used programs are starting up much much quicker and that is really nice to see. I'm talking about the difference between 30, 35 seconds down to maybe 3 seconds for the program to start now.

 

[Arran]

Ok, the drive is in!! Interesting, the boot up time is almost the same but actually a little slower but get this... My programs like iPhoto, Mail, iTunes, MS Word, open up like LIGHTNING!! I don't really worry about the boot up time because my computer just sleeps and I just wake it from sleep. The programs opening up super fast is EXCELLENT!!! I love this. Now my iMac has new life. I am really happy. Thanks Arran!! I hope this stays running like this.

Great news. Glad I could help.

Now that you mention it, my boot time is like yours (not as fast as I'd expected). It's a moot point for me too. The only time this Mac boots is after a power outage!