Wanting to get a nMP soon. when is the 7,1 coming out?

[ToroidalZeus]

You can't compare Xeons to desktop chips. Of course you're going to be able to build cheaper using desktop parts. But the hackintosh argument everyone trots out here is silly. Yes, they're cheaper. And you can get better performance. But when talking about workstations, most are looking for a reliable no maintenance machine for day to day work. If the machine goes down, they don't want to self diagnose, make warranty claims on individual parts, etc. They want to call Apple, HP, Dell, etc. and get up and running again without much hassle. Hackintosh and PC builds are fun and good value, but are usually not an option for someone looking at workstations.

The setup process is a little tricky and requires a bit of knowledge but once it's configured properly the OS is incredibly stable.

The price difference tho. it's not just "get better performance" with X99/Haswell-e it's save $2000 or $3000 off the cost of a comparable Mac Pro.

 

[nigelbb]

The setup process is a little tricky and requires a bit of knowledge but once it's configured properly the OS is incredibly stable.

The price difference tho. it's not just "get better performance" with X99/Haswell-e it's save $2000 or $3000 off the cost of a comparable Mac Pro.

Do you really save $2000 or $3000 off if the comparable Mac Pro is dual CPU?

 

[Gav Mack]

There are no other threads.

I think I must have posted in over a dozen of them.

Fingers crossed we get a bigger can with two CPU's though I'm not holding my breath that a dual will happen.

They will be AMD powered and will probably come out with their range of next gen silicon.

 

[VirtualRain]

Haswell-EP with Six Core 3.5 GHz on base model with 16 GB of DDR4 2133 MHz RAM, 256 GB SSD, AMD FirePro D310 with 2GB stack of HBM Memory. 2999$

Higher End model with 8 Core 3.0 GHz, D510 3 GB HBM, 16 GB of RAM DDR4, 256 GB SSD. 3999$

With options of configuring it up to 14 or 18 cores.

The 4-core and 6-core V3 CPUs are the same price as last year's v2, so unless Apple is feeling charitable, the entry level is likely to be a 4-core at $2999 just like the current model. DDR4 is also a bit more pricey, making it difficult for Apple to offer more RAM for the same price while still maintaining desired margins.

There is a new lower price 8-core at $1100 vs $1700 last year that Apple could use, or they may opt for the newer faster 8-core part at the same price point as last year.

So I wouldn't necessarily count on much added bang-for-the-buck this time around.

The Haswell-EP has a nice boost in core counts. It's a pretty significant upgrade.

We've discussed this before...

While there is a boost in core counts at the top of the line, none of those CPUs are affordable by mortals. The new 18-core CPU costs $4500 alone. The 4, 6, and 8-core parts that are within the realm of reason are all similar to last year's CPUs, in fact, clock-for-clock, Haswell desktop CPUs are disappointing compared to Ivy...
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20058469/

 

[nox-uk]

I've yet to see anyone configure a comparable hack to a mac pro.

let's start with finding a case that takes a two GPU's and comes in at 0.0055 cubic metres shall we? Then couple it with a motherboard with three thunderbolt 2 channels.

I don't know of anything (yet) that's comparable to that.

Nox

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Do you really save $2000 or $3000 off if the comparable Mac Pro is dual CPU?

Are you talking about the dual CPU classic Mac Pros?

My 6 core 5820k overclocked to 4.6Ghz scores 25k on geekbench which is the same as the dual CPU 12 core cMPs.

It looks like they are selling on eBay for 1500-2000k min which is what I spent on my hackintosh. If you did buy one then you would be still get old obsolete graphic card(s). 2 GTX 980s are 1200 so ya it's still thousands of dollars better.

I've yet to see anyone configure a comparable hack to a mac pro.

let's start with finding a case that takes a two CPU's and comes in at 0.0055 cubic metres shall we? Then couple it with a motherboard with three thunderbolt 2 channels.

I don't know of anything (yet) that's comparable to that.

Nox

The nMP isn't dual CPU.

Hack compared to nMP is about a 2-3k+ savings--or in other words half to 2/3rds the cost savings--in terms of performance.

If you want a small form factor that is understandable but it's a hell of a premium to pay for it.

While there is a boost in core counts at the top of the line, none of those CPUs are affordable by mortals. The new 18-core CPU costs $4500 alone. The 4, 6, and 8-core parts that are within the realm of reason are all similar to last year's CPUs, in fact, clock-for-clock, Haswell desktop CPUs are disappointing compared to Ivy...
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20058469/

They have to be overclocked to show their real performance.

That's the real crux of the performance issue. The CPUs need to be running @4 Ghz + to really show their muscle.

 

[VirtualRain]

They have to be overclocked to show their real performance.

That's the real crux of the performance issue. The CPUs need to be running @4 Ghz + to really show their muscle.

First, I was citing clock-for-clock performance. And then from what little I've read, Haswell-E runs hotter and offers weaker over-clocks compared to Ivy.

 

[nigelbb]

My 6 core 5820k overclocked to 4.6Ghz scores 25k on geekbench which is the same as the dual CPU 12 core cMPs.

That's only the case if the comparable Mac Pro is the slowest 12-core 5,1 at 2.66GHz & that's only if measured by Geekbench. There are advantages of dual 6-core vs a single 6-core CPU when it comes to using a system for real work. These systems are generally I/O bound rather than CPU limited.

 

[nox-uk]

The nMP isn't dual CPU.

Apologies, I meant GPU obviously!

Nox

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Apologies, I meant GPU obviously!

Nox

still the same result

5960X 8 core cpu $1000 [which can be overclocked]
2 GTX 980 w/ 4GB* VRAM $1200
X99 motherboard $250-400
16GB DDR4 2400Mhz RAM $250
= $2700.
Total with finishing parts <4K

12 Core Mac Pro [because an overclocked 5960X is much faster than a 8 core Mac Pro] with 2 D500s w/ 3GB* of VRAM and 16GB DDR3 1866Mhz Ram is $7,000 before taxes (or $7560 here in California)

So a comprable Mac Pro is $3500 more expensive; in other words twice the cost.
That's a hell of a premium for a small form factor, ECC ram and a professional grade graphics card (basically ecc on the gfx card).

* I could compare it to the D700s but the 8GB GTX 980s are supposed to launch soon so it'll be the same result

That's only the case if the comparable Mac Pro is the slowest 12-core 5,1 at 2.66GHz & that's only if measured by Geekbench. There are advantages of dual 6-core vs a single 6-core CPU when it comes to using a system for real work. These systems are generally I/O bound rather than CPU limited.

By that same token other tasks will be done better by a CPU with fewer faster cores.

 

[Zorn]

still the same result

5960X 8 core cpu $1000 [which can be overclocked]
2 GTX 980 w/ 4GB* VRAM $1200
X99 motherboard $250-400
16GB DDR4 2400Mhz RAM $250
= $2700.
Total with finishing parts <4K

12 Core Mac Pro [because an overclocked 5960X is much faster than a 8 core Mac Pro] with 2 D500s w/ 3GB* of VRAM and 16GB DDR3 1866Mhz Ram is $7,000 before taxes (or $7560 here in California)

So a comprable Mac Pro is $3500 more expensive; in other words twice the cost.
That's a hell of a premium for a small form factor, ECC ram and a professional grade graphics card (basically ecc on the gfx card).

* I could compare it to the D700s but the 8GB GTX 980s are supposed to launch soon so it'll be the same result



By that same token other takes will be done better by a CPU with fewer faster cores.

This is something like the 3rd thread that you have come to for no reason other than to try and convince the world that Hackintosh is great. We get it, the stars lined up and you somehow had an easy time installing OS X on your PC hardware. Most people aren't that lucky and don't want the headache. No need to keep pushing it on everyone.

 

[nigelbb]

That's a hell of a premium for a small form factor, ECC ram and a professional grade graphics card (basically ecc on the gfx card).

Does your home brew fake Mac system come with 3 years warranty & a worldwide support network? These things are important when the system is used for doing real paid for work rather than just willy waving Geekbench scores

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Does your home brew fake Mac system come with 3 years warranty & a worldwide support network? These things are important when the system is used for doing real paid for work rather than just willy waving Geekbench scores

yep, comes with manufacture warranty on parts.

 

[nigelbb]

Does your home brew fake Mac system come with 3 years warranty & a worldwide support network? These things are important when the system is used for doing real paid for work rather than just willy waving Geekbench scores

yep, comes with manufacture warranty on parts.

Not quite the same as AppleCare & on-site Mac Pro warranty is it?

 

[reco2011]

I don't want to get the 6,1 if the 7,1 is around the corner. Does anyone have information around when the next release is going down?

Yes...it will be released on December 15, 2015 @ 10:00 am PST. You're welcome.

 

[handsome pete]

and comes in at 0.0055 cubic metres shall we?

To be fair, I'm sure the consensus around these parts still is that the small form factor isn't near the top of the list for requirements. And why do you need thunderbolt when you have some empty PCIe slots to fill?

The setup process is a little tricky and requires a bit of knowledge but once it's configured properly the OS is incredibly stable.

That's my point. Not a lot of people want to have to deal with any of that. They want to just take it out of the box, plug it in, and start working. That's nothing against custom builds.

Besides, what's your definition of stable? How hard are you running that thing?

 

[nox-uk]

still the same result

Yep. Those gpu's are longer than the entire Mac pro is tall. Still not seen anything come close to that power in that size a box that runs that quietly for that kinda money. Which was my point. others here will have other reasons to look at Mac Pros. Warranty, reliability, not got the time to build a hack etc. for some people £50 is a lot of money, others not. Some people will be given these for work, should they get a hack? Certainly not, imagine asking Autodesk for support on a hack... I doubt they would do it.

For you the hack is what you wanted to do. I did it once, it will only get easier as time goes on so less of a challenge now. id rather spend my time tinkering elsewhere.

Oh and can you disconnect a thunderbolt device without a hack crashing yet? Last time I checked you couldn't... Something I do use.

Nox

 

[Rog210]

The setup process is a little tricky and requires a bit of knowledge but once it's configured properly the OS is incredibly stable.

Sure it's "incredibly stable" ... until you try and install a software update and find out that your hack won't boot to desktop anymore.

Some people like the challenge I guess. I've been there and done that and will happily pay full price for a system supported by Apple. I've got a long list of stuff I'd rather be doing than using SSH to login to a broken hack to see if I can figure out how to revive it.

 

[goMac]

We've discussed this before...

While there is a boost in core counts at the top of the line, none of those CPUs are affordable by mortals. The new 18-core CPU costs $4500 alone. The 4, 6, and 8-core parts that are within the realm of reason are all similar to last year's CPUs, in fact, clock-for-clock, Haswell desktop CPUs are disappointing compared to Ivy...
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20058469/

Assuming the 18-core's thermal profile makes it acceptable for the Mac Pro, I could actually see that being a pretty decent seller.

$4500 is not that much money in workstation land for just a CPU.

 

[calaverasgrande]

hackintosh does not equal Mac Pro.
It might be a better value, it might be higher performance. But a Mac Pro isn't only specced because of value or performance concerns.
Sometimes you just want the computer at the heart of your set up to be the least of your worries. Other times you might want to grind on that computer all day and fiddle with every damn setting.
I know a few pro 3d graphics guys that have render farms of Hackintoshes. Once they get it working they weld it shut, encase it in lead and never update.
Their desktop computer which they do their actual work on is a Mac Pro or iMac. Funny how that works isnt it?

 

[BeatCrazy]

Sometimes you just want the computer at the heart of your set up to be the least of your worries. Other times you might want to grind on that computer all day and fiddle with every damn setting.

You got it. If I'm going to build a computer myself (I've done so several times), might as well load effin' Windows on it. There's a higher chance of it actually working correctly on first boot, and with subsequent software updates, than a Hackintosh.

As I get older, my time is more valuable. And that means less messing around trouble-shooting drivers, hardware, etc.

It would be comical to show you guys my last PC build, which is actually not that far off from the performance of my new base nMP. Except my PC is 5U tall, rack mounted, has 4 fans (that run LOUD), and sucks power like you would not believe. My nMP on the other hand, just sits there as quiet as a trash can, never calling attention to itself.

 

[VirtualRain]

My nMP on the other hand, just sits there as quiet as a trash can, never calling attention to itself.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

That's my point. Not a lot of people want to have to deal with any of that. They want to just take it out of the box, plug it in, and start working. That's nothing against custom builds.

Besides, what's your definition of stable? How hard are you running that thing?

There are so many old Mac Pro upgrade threads in this section.
Plug and play is for the iMac folks, performance is what the Mac Pro is all about.

To quote MacVidCards

Those nMPs are going to look like junky old iMacs in short time.

Which is what Ive been saying this entire time.

---------------------------

How stable? Really stable. 4.5 Ghz OC on the CPU, 1500 Mhz OC on the GPU, Ram is 2400Mhz with latency reduced to 13. It hasn't crashed once and the only issues I notice is I have to press the keyboard to come out of sleep mode instead of being able to move the mouse around.

 

[Sharky II]

There are so many old Mac Pro upgrade threads in this section.
Plug and play is for the iMac folks, performance is what the Mac Pro is all about.

To quote MacVidCards


Which is what Ive been saying this entire time.

---------------------------

How stable? Really stable. 4.5 Ghz OC on the CPU, 1500 Mhz OC on the GPU, Ram is 2400Mhz with latency reduced to 13. It hasn't crashed once and the only issues I notice is I have to press the keyboard to come out of sleep mode instead of being able to move the mouse around.

I have to do that on my cMP and MBP anyway.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

I have to do that on my cMP and MBP anyway.

Use kb to come out of sleep mode? maybe its a design choice then.