What do your hard disks score on xbench?

[joaoferro37]

I cannot believe that CalDigit's profit margin is very high and they provide poor drives to end users in order to Squeeze out more profit?
For example, a 4 drive enclosure is around 300 dollars range, ex: Stardom, Proavio, OWC, EZquest. A miniSAS RAID card is arond 500 dollars range. CalDigit is selling a 4TB with card for $2200.
If I am not mistaken, 300+500+500(for the drive), their profit margin is around $900.
Can we have better service and product and not feel got ripped off?

 

[nanofrog]

I cannot believe that CalDigit's profit margin is very high and they provide poor drives to end users in order to Squeeze out more profit?
For example, a 4 drive enclosure is around 300 dollars range, ex: Stardom, Proavio, OWC, EZquest. A miniSAS RAID card is arond 500 dollars range. CalDigit is selling a 4TB with card for $2200.
If I am not mistaken, 300+500+500(for the drive), their profit margin is around $900.
Can we have better service and product and not feel got ripped off?

I'd think so, but apparently not from CalDigit. They're apparently way too greedy.

BTW, their costs are lower than that, as they get products at quantity pricing (they don't make any of it). So the margins are even higher.

 

[joaoferro37]

Stardom ST-8-U5 miniSAS with High Pint 4322 over 600MB/s

Computer: Mac Pro 2.8 8-core, 4G Ram
OS: 10.5.7
HDD: Hitachi 1TB, 16Mb cache. model: OA38016
RAID Card 2: High Point 4322 miniSAS @4lane slot
RAID level:0
Seq Write 548MB/s
Seq Read 605MB/s
Random Write 489MB/s
Random Read 616MB/s
RAID Level: 5
Seq Write 353MB/s
Seq Read 6634MB/s
Random Write 251MB/s
Random Read 95MB/s

 

[nanofrog]

Computer: Mac Pro 2.8 8-core, 4G Ram
OS: 10.5.7
HDD: Hitachi 1TB, 16Mb cache. model: OA38016
RAID Card 2: High Point 4322 miniSAS @4lane slot
RAID level:0
Seq Write 548MB/s
Seq Read 605MB/s
Random Write 489MB/s
Random Read 616MB/s
RAID Level: 5
Seq Write 353MB/s
Seq Read 6634MB/s
Random Write 251MB/s
Random Read 95MB/s

Enable the disk cache setting on AJA, and re-run the tests. You might like the results.

 

[joaoferro37]

Let me try, I am getting Areca 1680 card for testing as well as High Point 2314 and High Point MAc SATA card. Will post it in 30 minutes.

 

[ji3yjo42ul3]

Computer: Mac Pro 2.8 8-core, 4G Ram
OS: 10.5.7
HDD: Hitachi 1TB, 16Mb cache. model: OA38016
RAID Card 2: High Point 4322 miniSAS @4lane slot
RAID level:0
Seq Write 548MB/s
Seq Read 605MB/s
Random Write 489MB/s
Random Read 616MB/s
RAID Level: 5
Seq Write 353MB/s
Seq Read 6634MB/s
Random Write 251MB/s
Random Read 95MB/s
View attachment 186725
View attachment 186726

It sounds really interesting to me. I am taking wedding video, I am looking for storage product with RAID function. But I have no idea about how it really works and how to set it up. From your testing result, Stardom DR4-WBS2 seems it's fast enough and safe to my current work loading.

I want to buy it, is website : http://www.stardom.com.....but I can't find it there. It's an American company, right? Where can I buy from? I am located in South of California.

Ji3

 

[ji3yjo42ul3]

I cannot believe that CalDigit's profit margin is very high and they provide poor drives to end users in order to Squeeze out more profit?
For example, a 4 drive enclosure is around 300 dollars range, ex: Stardom, Proavio, OWC, EZquest. A miniSAS RAID card is arond 500 dollars range. CalDigit is selling a 4TB with card for $2200.
If I am not mistaken, 300+500+500(for the drive), their profit margin is around $900.
Can we have better service and product and not feel got ripped off?

Do you think I can buy a nice 4.5TB(1.5TB per drive) RAID5 subsystem under $1200?

 

[joaoferro37]

It sounds really interesting to me. I am taking wedding video, I am looking for storage product with RAID function. But I have no idea about how it really works and how to set it up. From your testing result, Stardom DR4-WBS2 seems it's fast enough and safe to my current work loading.

I want to buy it, is website : http://www.stardom.com.....but I can't find it there. It's an American company, right? Where can I buy from? I am located in South of California.

Ji3

It depends on what footage you are working on. I assuming for wedding projects, mostly, it will be HDV or DVCPro HD. If that is the case, stardom DR4 is fast enough for sure and you cannot beat the built-in RAID 5 feature.
I believe the website is http://www.raidon-usa.com/stardom/index.htm
You can find their product from OWC, http://www.macsales.com

 

[joaoferro37]

Enable the disk cache setting on AJA, and re-run the tests. You might like the results.

Using High Point SATA card + stardom deckraid dr4 via esata (4 hitachi 1TB 16MB)
The number cannot be right!!!!

 

[nanofrog]

Let me try, I am getting Areca 1680 card for testing as well as High Point 2314 and High Point MAc SATA card. Will post it in 30 minutes.

The ARC-1680 series are really nice cards, and have features the Highpoint doesn't. It will outperform the Highpoint as well, especially if you have a model you can upgrade the cache (Areca designed the 4xxx series BTW).

Do you think I can buy a nice 4.5TB(1.5TB per drive) RAID5 subsystem under $1200?

It's possible, but it will depend on exactly what you're after.

How many drives for future expansion?
What kind of speed?
Will you need to migrate to a different array type?
What OS support do you need (drivers), and do you plan to boot from it (if so, which OS's)?

The answers will make a difference. Also, you should seriously consider enterprise drives, as consumer models have a habit of being unstable on hardware solutions, especially SAS based models.

Using High Point SATA card + stardom deckraid dr4 via esata (4 hitachi 1TB 16MB)
The number cannot be right!!!!

That's the influence of the cache (when the test files all fit on the cache, you get insane speeds). Try increasing the file size to larger than the cache on the card. Then you should get something more realistic.

 

[joaoferro37]

Enable the disk cache setting on AJA, and re-run the tests. You might like the results.

WEIRD!!!
2G file size, system 4G
With system cache off, I got 690MB write and 721MB read
With system cache on, I got 495MB write and 1355MB read

 

[nanofrog]

WEIRD!!!
2G file size, system 4G
With system cache off, I got 690MB write and 721MB read
With system cache on, I got 495MB write and 1355MB read

I've seen this before, and to some extent, is what happens. The adjusting the settings might use a bit of tweaking to suit your needs.

What is the cache setting on the card?
Other settings as well, such as the stripe size, disk operation, NCQ/TCQ,...?

 

[joaoferro37]

I've seen this before, and to some extent, is what happens. The adjusting the settings might use a bit of tweaking to suit your needs.

What is the cache setting on the card?
Other settings as well, such as the stripe size, disk operation, NCQ/TCQ,...?

I know I cannot mess around with Mr. frog when the topic is about speed and drives.
The strip size is at 128K block size, NCQ enable, Read ahead cache on, write cache disable. RAID card memory, 256.<<<If I can change it to 512 or 1G, it will make huge difference. RAID card 800MHz IOP348 <<< Areca has 1.2GHz version which I have not get a chance to test it yet.

I like the Areca card over High Point because the tech support from High Point is a nightmare. Even for the testing cards that I got from them were not updated and their firmware update requires a pure dos boot up environment.
I believe many of you had the same experience that a pure PC mentality company wants to do Mac business and never study what we really needs and I truly believe they don't even have a Mac in their testing lab.

 

[joaoferro37]

Do you think I can buy a nice 4.5TB(1.5TB per drive) RAID5 subsystem under $1200?

To get a 4.5TB with 1.5TB.. That means you have to get Seagate.. Ask Mr. Frog see if he suggest using seagate, he will say NO!!!

MY suggestion is getting a Areca 1221X card with Stardom Decktank DT-8 $695
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Raidon/ST8S2P/
and get the 2314 $195
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Highpoint Technologies/RR2314/
1TB $84
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Hitachi/0A38016/
Total $1562
A 8TB with RAID 5 for $1562, i cannot complain.

There are alternative solutions but I trust OWC.

 

[nanofrog]

I know I cannot mess around with Mr. frog when the topic is about speed and drives.
The strip size is at 128K block size, NCQ enable, Read ahead cache on, write cache disable. RAID card memory, 256.<<<If I can change it to 512 or 1G, it will make huge difference. RAID card 800MHz IOP348 <<< Areca has 1.2GHz version which I have not get a chance to test it yet.

1. You could try setting the stripe to 256K (it doesn't seem to be worth going larger IMO)
2. Disable NCQ
3. Enable Write Cache, which can be done in the browser window, but it also needs to be set as write through, which is set in the card's firmware

Test it out and see what happens. You can play with the NCQ setting, as sometimes it can help a little, but be careful, as it can also cause instability, particularly on the SAS models. (You need to understand how the card behaves anyway, including simulating various failures, like pull the power cord (assuming it's attached to a UPS), and pull a drive and see how it reacts (degraded mode, rebuilds,...). If you're unsure of the details of your useage pattern (types and frequency of file transfers), nows the time to find out.

I like the Areca card over High Point because the tech support from High Point is a nightmare. Even for the testing cards that I got from them were not updated and their firmware update requires a pure dos boot up environment.
I believe many of you had the same experience that a pure PC mentality company wants to do Mac business and never study what we really needs and I truly believe they don't even have a Mac in their testing lab.

Highpoint also has the issue you can only have EFI or BIOS in it, not both. So OS boot capability is affected by this. Unfortunately, most firmware updates are still done on the PC side (DOS), as it's been around, and it does work. But they assume user's have access to a DOS boot disk, and this can be a problem for Mac users who don't run windows or have access to a windows machine/friend who's willing to make one for them.

To get a 4.5TB with 1.5TB.. That means you have to get Seagate.. Ask Mr. Frog see if he suggest using seagate, he will say NO!!!

MY suggestion is getting a Areca 1221X card with Stardom Decktank DT-8 $695
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Raidon/ST8S2P/
and get the 2314 $195
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Highpoint Technologies/RR2314/
1TB $84
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Hitachi/0A38016/
Total $1562
A 8TB with RAID 5 for $1562, i cannot complain.

There are alternative solutions but I trust OWC.

1. I don't like what happened over the 7200.11 models, particularly the 1.5TB model. It was a disaster. So I don't trust those. Others may not be an issue though (Samsung), but research is warranted.

The ARC-1221X may work, so long as you don't need to boot from it (driver support only for Mac). If a PM's limitations are acceptable, that's not a bad setup, though there are other enclosures that are really good, but a bit less money. An Enhance E8 PM unit should be ~$100 - 150USD less. Others as well, that work well, and actually look decent too.

Otherwise, another card and enclosre (port connections) would be needed (greater throughput potential).

 

[hyram]

Even for the testing cards that I got from them were not updated and their firmware update requires a pure dos boot up environment.

Ok... please explain. I've had a HPT4322 since Dec 08. I've updated the firmware on it twice and did not have to use DOS to do so. This can be done using the web interface only.

hyram

 

[lemonade-maker]

To get a 4.5TB with 1.5TB.. That means you have to get Seagate.. Ask Mr. Frog see if he suggest using seagate, he will say NO!!!

Its a firmware issue, if you have the latest, no prob. My 6 seagate 1.5s are just fine. So are many others. Not one problem which is far from what I can say about all the wd junk I've had. They are solid drives and i even picked up a couple extra. They are cheap and perform well in software raid0.

 

[gugucom]

Results 403.60
System Info
Xbench Version 1.3
System Version 10.5.8 (9L30)
Physical RAM 12288 MB
Model MacPro1,1
Drive Type OS X RAID
Disk Test 403.60
Sequential 308.52
Uncached Write 394.61 242.29 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 610.54 345.45 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 134.84 39.46 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 726.21 364.99 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 583.36
Uncached Write 238.92 25.29 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 712.01 227.94 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 2898.2220.54 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 1084.74201.28 MB/sec [256K blocks]

 

[gugucom]

Here's my RAMDisk:

Results	906.19	
	System Info		
		Xbench Version		1.3
		System Version		10.5.7 (9J61)
		Physical RAM		12288 MB
		Model			MacPro1,1
[U]		Drive Type		Apple read/write RAM-Drive[/U]

	[U]Disk Test	[B]906.19[/B]	[/U]
		Sequential	553.47	
			Uncached Write	415.27	254.97 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	1242.03	702.74 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	282.08	82.55 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	2132.99	1072.02 MB/sec [256K blocks]
		Random	2498.42	
			Uncached Write	1195.78	126.59 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	2303.16	737.33 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	8109.22	57.46 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	4825.48	895.40 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Hi Tess, could you explain how you set up a RAM disk in OS X?

 

[joaoferro37]

Ok... please explain. I've had a HPT4322 since Dec 08. I've updated the firmware on it twice and did not have to use DOS to do so. This can be done using the web interface only.

hyram[/QUOTE
I happen to test high point 2314, 3522 4322 cards for a post production company.
The problem we have on the 3522 was the firmware was not compatible with 10.5.7 at the time which means the card won't show up on the system profiler.
I contact high point and they told me I had to find a PC boot up from pure windows to update.
The first 4322 card I test was direct from them and I had to do the same thing.
I remove the driver and plist restart, reinstall and tried so many times, the system did not see it. It cannot communicate with the card changing the port from2704 to 2714, etc. I had to do the same thing update it from a pure windows dos. After that, the problem went away.

 

[hyram]

After that, the problem went away.

Perhaps you had a pre-production version, the card only came out last Nov. Honesty, I've had zero problems with my 4322. Setup was easy, and updating was very simple. I'll agree that the web interface is a little cryptic at times and the documentation is horrible, but that seems to be a common thread with all the far east companies. If you can you should give it another look, I don't think you'll be disappointed with the card itself.

Tech service? Well that's another story, I've not had reason to call/email Highpoint but I've heard things; but then I've heard the same about Areca, Atto, and Caldigit as well. And one bad call will taint you for life.

 

[nanofrog]

Perhaps you had a pre-production version, the card only came out last Nov. Honesty, I've had zero problems with my 4322. Setup was easy, and updating was very simple. I'll agree that the web interface is a little cryptic at times and the documentation is horrible, but that seems to be a common thread with all the far east companies. If you can you should give it another look, I don't think you'll be disappointed with the card itself.

Tech service? Well that's another story, I've not had reason to call/email Highpoint but I've heard things; but then I've heard the same about Areca, Atto, and Caldigit as well. And one bad call will taint you for life.

I've had decent luck with Areca. Though it's been strictly emails, as a phone call isn't possible. I don't speak the language, and the emails are cryptic as is. I can usually figure it out, but it does take a little longer due to the language barrier. Atto's Tech Support is US based. At least those I've dealt with. Highpoint's are as well (both are in NY, IIRC). Keep in mind though, Areca and Atto actually do their own design and manufacturing.

CalDigit's horrible. They and Highpoint just have other companies (ODM) do the work. Accusys does the work for CalDigit, and Highpoint sources multiple companies. Areca's one of them (43xx series).

 

[joaoferro37]

Mr. Nano. I am trying to work on this crazy idea of building the fastest Mac.
Thinking putting 4 Stardom Pro Drive set to RAID 0 with 2 SSD, total of 8
then hook up to a internal RAID card or using OS stripe.
I know the stardom pro drive can set up raid 0 and SSD seems to be the fatest option.
The reason to build this machine is to increase the render speed for final cut pro, motion, premiere, Maya using internal SSD.

 

[Tesselator]

To get a 4.5TB with 1.5TB.. That means you have to get Seagate.. Ask Mr. Frog see if he suggest using seagate, he will say NO!!!

Wasn't Samsung the first out with 1.5 TB drives? I dunno it they were first or not (I thought they were) but they were surely the first out with 500GB platter density. I'm using them in a 3-drive RAID0 with great success. Nano tried to buy these units as well but at the time they were higher than he wanted to spend. They're now about $110 ~ $120 each in the USA so well within the $1200 joaoferro37 mentioned.

Hi Tess, could you explain how you set up a RAM disk in OS X?

Sure. I just downloaded and installed this: http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/16518

It works pretty good and even backs itself up on a shutdown and restores on boot.

 

[nanofrog]

Mr. Nano. I am trying to work on this crazy idea of building the fastest Mac.
Thinking putting 4 Stardom Pro Drive set to RAID 0 with 2 SSD, total of 8
then hook up to a internal RAID card or using OS stripe.
I know the stardom pro drive can set up raid 0 and SSD seems to be the fatest option.
The reason to build this machine is to increase the render speed for final cut pro, motion, premiere, Maya using internal SSD.

I'm not quite following how you're wanting to set this up.

You mean to use 8x SSD's in a stripe? Or something else?
And how much throughput are you looking for? Or is this a "just to see" type of experiment?

Wasn't Samsung the first out with 1.5 TB drives? I dunno it they were first or not (I thought they were) but they were surely the first out with 500GB platter density. I'm using them in a 3-drive RAID0 with great success. Nano tried to buy these units as well but at the time they were higher than he wanted to spend. They're now about $110 ~ $120 each in the USA so well within the $1200 joaoferro37 mentioned.

I thought it was Seagate, as the platter density was lower (7200.11 series platters). Followed by Samsung with the 500GB platters. Either way, I'd still give the Samsung a try, as the fiasco with the 7200.11's have left me nervous about Seagate in general (as the issues affected the ES.2 enterprise line as well).