Which version of OS X for a decked out 300mhz G3 Clamshell? (10.2, 10.3, 10.4)

[ultrasaw]

Hi, new to the forums here so my apologies of this is something that's already been discussed at length.

I'm getting my hands on an iBook G3 Clamshell, the original 300mhz model specifically. I'm already decided on the idea of running OS X alongside or outright instead of OS 9 on this machine. There are some things I should specify before I get to my question...

I'm gonna be upgrading this machine pretty heavily (at least for a clamshell).
My plan is to install the max 576mb of ram in this machine (I know 288 is the "official" supported maximum but I hear if you use PC100 then 576 will work without a hitch).
Something else I feel is important to mention is the fact that I will be upgrading this machines drive to an SSD, specifically using a 60gb mSATA SSD and an mSATA to IDE enclosure. So the OS won't be installed on a mechanical drive, I'm going 100% flash for this project.
AirPort card will be there too, in case that's somehow important.

So, on to my question then...
Realistically, is it better for me to go ahead and install OS X 10.2 Jaguar or 10.3 Panther? Specifically, which is going to be more responsive on a machine with these upgrades? Will 10.3 be able to make better use of the ram and be more responsive because of general optimizations? Or, will it be bogged down by the fact that it's newer software running on a 1999 G3? Which do you think going to give me the snappier user experience? Would going through the trouble of installing 10.4 Tiger on a 300mhz G3 be worth it in this case because of the upgrades to memory and flash storage? I'm realllyyyy lost with what to do here. Any tips or advice would be a huuuge help.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Depends on what you intend to do with it.

I had Tiger on mine because the stuff I was doing needed it but you have to run every optimisation going.

 

[z970]

It mainly depends on what you want to do with it. Are you planning on browsing the Web? Do you want to enjoy some old games? Do you want to make use of period software?

Jaguar might be the least resource intensive, but I've heard that Panther is all around faster. Just as well, I've also heard that Tiger is even faster than Panther, especially if it's an optimized install.

You will get no modern Internet options with Jaguar, but you will retain Jaguar's superior Classic environment to that which came with Panther / Tiger (a moot point if you plan on ever installing OS 9). You will get limited modern Internet options with Panther but maybe slightly less resource usage than TIger, and you will get the best Internet options and app compatibility with Tiger.

If you just want to make use of OS X's built-in apps and Aqueous splendor, Jaguar may be a good fit.

 

[ultrasaw]

It mainly depends on what you want to do with it. Are you planning on browsing the Web? Do you want to enjoy some old games? Do you want to make use of period software?

Jaguar might be the least resource intensive, but I've heard that Panther is all around faster. Just as well, I've also heard that Tiger is even faster than Panther, especially if it's an optimized install.

You will get no modern Internet options with Jaguar, but you will retain Jaguar's superior Classic environment to that which came with Panther / Tiger (a moot point if you plan on ever installing OS 9). You will get limited modern Internet options with Panther but maybe slightly less resource usage than TIger, and you will get the best Internet options and app compatibility with Tiger.

Web browsing specifically is what's been inching me towards Tiger. I don't have any knowledge about "optimized installs" of tiger though (I'm just now hearing about them, as a matter of fact)
What does that entail? How would I optimize tiger to run on this machine?

 

[Amethyst1]

Will 10.3 be able to make better use of the ram and be more responsive because of general optimizations?

Yes.

There's only two reasons to bother with Jaguar at all: its objectively superior Classic environment and its subjectively prettier UI.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Web browsing specifically is what's been inching me towards Tiger. I don't have any knowledge about "optimized installs" of tiger though (I'm just now hearing about them, as a matter of fact)
What does that entail? How would I optimize tiger to run on this machine?

Browsing isn't much fun at that speed unless you use a text only browser like Links2.
The best optimisation for Tiger on an early iBook is too cut out all the GUI effects with Onyx and use ShadowKiller to turn off the drop shadows - this will make the UI less sluggish.

 

[Amethyst1]

The best optimisation for Tiger on an early iBook is too cut out all the GUI effects with Onyx and use ShadowKiller to turn off the drop shadows - this will make the UI less sluggish.

And reduce colours to 32,768. And turn off Dashboard and Spotlight.

 

[z970]

@ultrasaw You could install Panther and use the text + graphics browser Links2 in conjunction with PowerPC Media Center 7 to watch YouTube videos, but as far as optimizing Tiger and Web browsing with additional means there, it's a matter of several additional clicks, really.

AquaTrimcelerator is the most comprehensive system optimization solution available for Tiger that will reduce CPU load and GPU load, while slightly improving memory bandwidth. It contains clear instructions and user friendly shell scripts, in addition to bundling recommended follow up applications all within one consolidated source. It can be found at Macintosh Garden:

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/tenfourtrim

@Amethyst1 Dashboard does not eat any resources if it is never launched in the first place, and Spotlight can be easily disabled with the shell scripts included as part of AquaTrimcelerator.

 

[alex_free]

I can confirm if your model has 64MB soldered RAM and you grab the right RAM stick you can go that high. I only have 32MB soldered so I’m stuck at 544MB.

I only have Panther on mine as I have no room on the 3GB HDD for anything, but IMO not dual booting OS 9 with either 10.3 or 10.4 would be missing out if you have the HDD space.

 

[ultrasaw]

I guess I probably should have asked this before but... If I chose to, how would I even install Tiger on a 300mhz Clamshell? Between the firewire stuff and the fact that Tiger is on a DVD and not CD-ROMs... I'm not sure of the process to get Tiger on there in the first place. Again, very new to this...

 

[B S Magnet]

Hi, new to the forums here so my apologies of this is something that's already been discussed at length.

I'm getting my hands on an iBook G3 Clamshell, the original 300mhz model specifically. I'm already decided on the idea of running OS X alongside or outright instead of OS 9 on this machine. There are some things I should specify before I get to my question...

I'm gonna be upgrading this machine pretty heavily (at least for a clamshell).
My plan is to install the max 576mb of ram in this machine (I know 288 is the "official" supported maximum but I hear if you use PC100 then 576 will work without a hitch).
Something else I feel is important to mention is the fact that I will be upgrading this machines drive to an SSD, specifically using a 60gb mSATA SSD and an mSATA to IDE enclosure. So the OS won't be installed on a mechanical drive, I'm going 100% flash for this project.
AirPort card will be there too, in case that's somehow important.

So, on to my question then...
Realistically, is it better for me to go ahead and install OS X 10.2 Jaguar or 10.3 Panther? Specifically, which is going to be more responsive on a machine with these upgrades? Will 10.3 be able to make better use of the ram and be more responsive because of general optimizations? Or, will it be bogged down by the fact that it's newer software running on a 1999 G3? Which do you think going to give me the snappier user experience? Would going through the trouble of installing 10.4 Tiger on a 300mhz G3 be worth it in this case because of the upgrades to memory and flash storage? I'm realllyyyy lost with what to do here. Any tips or advice would be a huuuge help.

At 300MHz, Tiger will struggle, even if you max out the memory. With Panther, you will have a bit more front-end speed at the expense of fewer software options for current things like browsing online.

I run Tiger on my 466MHz clamshell, which is maxed on RAM and uses an SSD. Tiger isn’t exactly lightning-quick, particularly when running an optimized version of TenFourFox. With period-appropriate applications, though, it runs just fine.

 

[B S Magnet]

I guess I probably should have asked this before but... If I chose to, how would I even install Tiger on a 300mhz Clamshell? Between the firewire stuff and the fact that Tiger is on a DVD and not CD-ROMs... I'm not sure of the process to get Tiger on there in the first place. Again, very new to this...

On the Macintosh Garden archives, there should be a version of Tiger on there which is optimized to be burnt on CD-Rs.

 

[Amethyst1]

If I chose to, how would I even install Tiger on a 300mhz Clamshell? Between the firewire stuff and the fact that Tiger is on a DVD and not CD-ROMs...

There's a version of Tiger that comes on 4 CDs. And you can either patch the installer or fake your machine's ID to get around the purely artificial FW requirement.

 

[Amethyst1]

Dashboard does not eat any resources if it is never launched in the first place,

I was going by the fact that it's shown as running in the Dock all the time, no matter if it's brought up or not. Anyway, it's the first thing I get rid of after installation.

 

[ultrasaw]

And you can either patch the installer or fake your machine's ID to get around the purely artificial FW requirement.

Any guides/threads on how to do this?

 

[Amethyst1]

Any guides/threads on how to do this?

Hacking the Tiger Installer for Unsupported G3 Macs | Low End Mac

Installing Mac OS X 10.4 “Tiger” without the use of XPostFacto on an iBook G3 Clamshell without FireWire

I just got an original iBook G3/300 (sometimes also referred to as “Clamshell”) from a friend and I have to say that I do like it very much. The hardware performance is essentially the same as I am…

luttztfz.wordpress.com

 

[z970]

@Amethyst1 I don't know why Apple decided to show it as constantly running even when it's not (ordinarily, active applications will remain in the Dock even after removing them). Either way, Activity Monitor can verify this.

 

[Raging Dufus]

I was going by the fact that it's shown as running in the Dock all the time, no matter if it's brought up or not. Anyway, it's the first thing I get rid of after installation.

If you like Dashboard (I do!) and you want to run it on a machine with little resources, the DashQuit widget allows you to kill Dashboard whenever you want, while still preserving your ability to run it on command. This is the way.

 

[Amethyst1]

If you like Dashboard (I do!) and you want to run it on a machine with little resources, the DashQuit widget allows you to kill Dashboard whenever you want, while still preserving your ability to run it on command. This is the way.

Indeed. Thanks for the tip

 

[Project Alice]

I have always found Tiger to be faster than Panther, or at the very least pretty much the same as far as performance goes. The slowest machines I it run it on my are Bondi iMac G3, and my Beige G3 tower (Now a G4 but was still on Tiger prior to the G4 upgrade).
Tiger is basically a better optimized version of Panther.

Back when Tiger was new (or I should say current; around the time of 10.4.9), I had just got into Macs. I had an iBook G3 500Mhz and a 500Mhz iMac. My dad on the other hand had a 1.2Ghz iBook G4 with Panther. My two G3s had came preinstalled with Tiger from the store they came from, and at the time we weren't aware we could clone Tiger to the G4. Obviously the G4 was faster, but we both thought that Tiger just felt better even on the significantly slower machines.

So I might be a bit biased but I believe Tiger is the most superior option for any G3 unless you want classic, which IMHO if you want to use classic on a machine like this just boot into it.

 

[TheShortTimer]

I have always found Tiger to be faster than Panther, or at the very least pretty much the same as far as performance goes. The slowest machines I it run it on my are Bondi iMac G3, and my Beige G3 tower (Now a G4 but was still on Tiger prior to the G4 upgrade).
Tiger is basically a better optimized version of Panther.

Back when Tiger was new (or I should say current; around the time of 10.4.9), I had just got into Macs. I had an iBook G3 500Mhz and a 500Mhz iMac. My dad on the other hand had a 1.2Ghz iBook G4 with Panther. My two G3s had came preinstalled with Tiger from the store they came from, and at the time we weren't aware we could clone Tiger to the G4. Obviously the G4 was faster, but we both thought that Tiger just felt better even on the significantly slower machines.

So I might be a bit biased but I believe Tiger is the most superior option for any G3 unless you want classic, which IMHO if you want to use classic on a machine like this just boot into it.

I don't think you're being biased. When I was deliberating as to whether I should choose Panther or Tiger for my iMac G3/350 @Amethyst1 offered similar observations regarding Tiger and it was proven to be good advice - despite the machine being officially barred by Apple, it runs like a champ with the help of a few tweaks here and there.

Personally I'd recommend a dual boot with Tiger and OS 9 for the best of both worlds and forget Panther.