Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

My 2017 Prius Prime had the governor at 104mph ... I had the previous gen Prius for 5 years, never had a problem with "slow" in SoCal

Slow as in 0-60. The 0-60 is like an 18 wheelier, not the top speed. An almost 10 second 0-60 in the NE is dangerous. My sister (who lives in Maryland) had the Lexus equivalent I think it was the Lexus CT200h, she said it was the most dangerous vehicle she owned because of the lack of acceleration.

It is actually dangerous in the NE as we have VERY VERY short on ramps. For example, a major highway on ramp that my wife and I use daily (Northern State) in Long Island NY, the runway is about 30 feet, right before a low (by design) bridge. You can only see behind you about where that X is on Google Street view (on the third image), as you are below the highway as the on ramp comes from a road that travels under the same highway. You have to reach 70 mph in a few feet as people speed WELL above the 50 mph limit. They have successfully extended on ramps where they could, but the problem with this, and many along this highway in Long Island are that they are right before bridges that are low, without the width needed for an additional lane (as you can see here).

This is the entrance of the on ramp:

view on the ramp as you pass the last tree, cars are passing on the other side of the tree at 70 mph when there is no traffic:

Looking back at the on ramp:

The on ramp on for the other direction of the same highway was extended with an adequate runway for a bicycle to get up to speed but there was no constraints of a bridge. The on ramps used to be the same length 10 years ago:

With our Teslas, we have no problem getting to full speed on any of these short on ramps.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

We used to have a Prius (the CT200h equivalent) as I wanted to go green. We hated the thing. I totally agree it is too slow. And not only that, it was just about acceptable if you apply hyper-miling on a flat motorway, or drive around London traffic that never goes above 30mph, but show it any kind of incline and that 1.8vvt engine kicks in and screams...

To get back in the good books with my wife, we traded it in for the anti-prius, a Mercedes-AMG GLS63. I also took the biggest depreciation hit ever on that thing, the prius, but didn't care; the buy to go straight to auction was 1/3 of the new price.

They are here popular with Uber, and at the time there wasn't really an alternative. But that definitely cured me of a hybrid. Same with the bigger engined Lexus, we tried it but also didn't like it.

 

[burgman]

Wow. I have some power stopping the breakup of the "oil cartels". The "opinion" contained in the post I quoted:

is a generalized mountain of disinformation which under scrutiny can't be backed up at scale.

One has to work hard to ignore the stories and reports worldwide about the negative effects of EV production and disposal. Including from Musk himself. Look up the pictures of 100’s of acres of EV’s rotting and leaking chemicals into the ground in Asia. Especially China, as just one example. There is a ten year inventory of EV corpses rotting. Again of course not in your fluffy field of view.

 

[Apple fanboy]

One has to work hard to ignore the stories and reports worldwide about the negative effects of EV production and disposal. Including from Musk himself. Look up the pictures of 100’s of acres of EV’s rotting and leaking chemicals into the ground in Asia. Especially China, as just one example. There is a ten year inventory of EV corpses rotting. Again of course not in your fluffy field of view.

Fortunately no ICE vehicles ever sit in fields rotting leaking chemicals into the ground.

EV’s are not perfect. But they are better than the currently available alternatives.

Well unless you just wish to walk everywhere of course!

 

[burgman]

Slow as in 0-60. The 0-60 is like an 18 wheelier, not the top speed. An almost 10 second 0-60 in the NE is dangerous. My sister (who lives in Maryland) had the Lexus equivalent I think it was the Lexus CT200h, she said it was the most dangerous vehicle she owned because of the lack of acceleration.

It is actually dangerous in the NE as we have VERY VERY short on ramps. For example, a major highway on ramp that my wife and I use daily (Northern State) in Long Island NY, the runway is about 30 feet, right before a low (by design) bridge. You can only see behind you about where that X is on Google Street view (on the third image), as you are below the highway as the on ramp comes from a road that travels under the same highway. You have to reach 70 mph in a few feet as people speed WELL above the 50 mph limit. They have successfully extended on ramps where they could, but the problem with this, and many along this highway in Long Island are that they are right before bridges that are low, without the width needed for an additional lane (as you can see here).

This is the entrance of the on ramp:
View attachment 2369112

view on the ramp as you pass the last tree, cars are passing on the other side of the tree at 70 mph when there is no traffic:
View attachment 2369113


View attachment 2369110

Looking back at the on ramp:
View attachment 2369114

The on ramp on for the other direction of the same highway was extended with an adequate runway for a bicycle to get up to speed but there was no constraints of a bridge. The on ramps used to be the same length 10 years ago:
View attachment 2369111

With our Teslas, we have no problem getting to full speed on any of these short on ramps.

With my Jeep wrangler plug in hybrid has the same acceleration. It’s only 375 horsepower and 470 pounds of torque Sadly

 

[burgman]

Fortunately no ICE vehicles ever sit in fields rotting leaking chemicals into the ground.

EV’s are not perfect. But they are better than the currently available alternatives.

Well unless you just wish to walk everywhere of course!

Many EV evangelists remind me of an old SouthPark episode about smug pollution in San Francisco. As far as being better only a few, and only if you can afford the price of admission.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Many EV evangelists remind me of an old SouthPark episode about smug pollution in San Francisco. As far as being better only a few, and only if you can afford the price of admission.

Never watched South Park so don’t really get the reference. But air pollution has significantly improved in Cities where congestion charges have actively encouraged EV ownership. London being a good example.

 

[burgman]

Never watched South Park so don’t really get the reference. But air pollution has significantly improved in Cities where congestion charges have actively encouraged EV ownership. London being a good example.

Same with cities that enforce emission testing

 

[cyb3rdud3]

One has to work hard to ignore the stories and reports worldwide about the negative effects of EV production and disposal. Including from Musk himself. Look up the pictures of 100’s of acres of EV’s rotting and leaking chemicals into the ground in Asia. Especially China, as just one example. There is a ten year inventory of EV corpses rotting. Again of course not in your fluffy field of view.

It is true about those fields, but that isn't a problem with BEV, it is a problem with a government that rewards productions over sales. It sadly happened with many goods, not just battery electric vehicles. So if you do bring up points to talk down EV, let's make sure you get the facts straight.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Same with cities that enforce emission testing

That is what he meant I guess London has an ultra-low emissions scheme, and to be fair, 7 other cities in the UK also operate clean air zones. And across Europe many large cities do the same. In Amsterdam, for example, you get new priority parking permits if you have an EV. And there are many more excellent schemes.

And not just for cars, we are renovating a house in the Netherlands to be our home. The number of subsidies to do it in a sustainable manner up for grabs are plentiful, and substantial. In addition, not just that, but also for things like green roofs and gardens (too many people paved over the front garden to park).

 

[hobowankenobi]

One has to work hard to ignore the stories and reports worldwide about the negative effects of EV production and disposal. Including from Musk himself. Look up the pictures of 100’s of acres of EV’s rotting and leaking chemicals into the ground in Asia. Especially China, as just one example. There is a ten year inventory of EV corpses rotting. Again of course not in your fluffy field of view.

Red herring again. Anecdotal misinformation trying to justify a political position (EVs = bad), or plain old clickbait.

Acres of any ICE cars would be even more toxic. What chemicals are in an EV that are worse than any ICE?

Every car junk in the world, as well as many filling stations, have the same issue with many decades of leaching fluids. Where is the outrage?

Outside of China, everybody else is recycling batteries. They are too valuable NOT to recycle. Trying buying a used EV battery pack. Check the prices yourself. Even components pulled from damaged packs are valuable.

This notion that Lithium batteries will simply be scrapped once they no longer hold a useful charge is simply FUD. Read some battery lifecycle info...from just one company. Look at some of the existing and planned battery recyclers just in the US.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Same with cities that enforce emission testing

Nope. Simply not true.

Go start you ICE in the garage with the doors closed. Sit there a while, and report back about how clean the air is.

 

[I7guy]

One has to work hard to ignore the stories and reports worldwide about the negative effects of EV production and disposal. Including from Musk himself. Look up the pictures of 100’s of acres of EV’s rotting and leaking chemicals into the ground in Asia. Especially China, as just one example. There is a ten year inventory of EV corpses rotting. Again of course not in your fluffy field of view.

To be fair, there is the Exxon Valdez incident and others. There has been severe injuries from large scale petrol explosions being transported. No technology is without any downsides.

However, China mismanaging it’s over production of EVs is a China issue and not a broader EV issue.

 

[I7guy]

Slow as in 0-60. The 0-60 is like an 18 wheelier, not the top speed. An almost 10 second 0-60 in the NE is dangerous. My sister (who lives in Maryland) had the Lexus equivalent I think it was the Lexus CT200h, she said it was the most dangerous vehicle she owned because of the lack of acceleration.

It is actually dangerous in the NE as we have VERY VERY short on ramps. For example, a major highway on ramp that my wife and I use daily (Northern State) in Long Island NY, the runway is about 30 feet, right before a low (by design) bridge. You can only see behind you about where that X is on Google Street view (on the third image), as you are below the highway as the on ramp comes from a road that travels under the same highway. You have to reach 70 mph in a few feet as people speed WELL above the 50 mph limit. They have successfully extended on ramps where they could, but the problem with this, and many along this highway in Long Island are that they are right before bridges that are low, without the width needed for an additional lane (as you can see here).

This is the entrance of the on ramp:
View attachment 2369112

view on the ramp as you pass the last tree, cars are passing on the other side of the tree at 70 mph when there is no traffic:
View attachment 2369113


View attachment 2369110

Looking back at the on ramp:
View attachment 2369114

The on ramp on for the other direction of the same highway was extended with an adequate runway for a bicycle to get up to speed but there was no constraints of a bridge. The on ramps used to be the same length 10 years ago:
View attachment 2369111

With our Teslas, we have no problem getting to full speed on any of these short on ramps.

I know that area. A few decades ago I used to live in the surrounding neighborhoods to what was called the Westbury Music Fair. Before he passed my most memorable show was Bob Hope. But I digress.

Yes, I agree, getting onto the Northern State was a real nail biter. Bless Robert Moses.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I know that area. A few decades ago I used to live in the surrounding neighborhoods to what was called the Westbury Music Fair. Before he passed my most memorable show was Bob Hope. But I digress.

Yes, I agree, getting onto the Northern State was a real nail biter. Bless Robert Moses.

Yup.. The Theater at Westbury is the second light behind the picture from Brush Hollow Rd that I posted (first picture). Since you left, they did extend the on ramps wherever they had the room, but my nature of the low narrow bridges, many cannot be widened or extended.

On other good they have been working on with the LIRR, as they extend the 3rd track, they have been building track underpasses for vehicles. It's a pain as they build them out, but once each opened, it greatly reduced congestion associated with crossing the tracks (also accidents, and trains having to slow down).

 

[JT2002TJ]

With my Jeep wrangler plug in hybrid has the same acceleration. It’s only 375 horsepower and 470 pounds of torque Sadly

I haven't had a wrangler since my rock crawling 2002 TJ, which I had lifted, put a cage in, full 1/4 underbody skids and regeared. They have always focused on go anywhere over acceleration. I've never been in a wrangler 4xe, but have been in a Cherokee 4xe. The Cherokee does have decent acceleration, enough for my area.

I definitely wouldn't put the Cherokee 4xe in the conversation as the old Prius.

I will note that the new Prius has addressed the acceleration issue while also addressing the look. They did a very good job. If you want the average consumer to buy into EVs and Hybrids, they can't look like the old Prius.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Anyone in the market for a Tesla Model 3, you may want this version

Upgraded Tesla Model 3 Performance Packs Adaptive Suspension, Over 500 HP: Website Leak

The source code on Tesla UK’s website spilled the beans ahead of schedule. So let's see what the refreshed Model 3 Performance is all about

insideevs.com

 

[cyb3rdud3]

LOL So I'm also in a Range Rover group in the UK, insurance is a big topic as it just keeps on going up. For me, without making a claim ever, the last two years have doubled each year. Anyway, apparently to some, and this is getting countless likes, the reason for that is EV cars as their battery packs cost so much; hence Range Rovers have to pay more.

Sigh, I really do wonder how some people manage to breathe by themselves.

 

[hobowankenobi]

LOL So I'm also in a Range Rover group in the UK, insurance is a big topic as it just keeps on going up. For me, without making a claim ever, the last two years have doubled each year. Anyway, apparently to some, and this is getting countless likes, the reason for that is EV cars as their battery packs cost so much; hence Range Rovers have to pay more.

Sigh, I really do wonder how some people manage to breathe by themselves.

I saw a few reports recently that showed all modern cars, regardless of EV or ICE have astronomical repair costs due to tech and sensors. Based on a few accidents I have seen the results of, this seems to be true, especially just in the last 5 years or so. No doubt EVs are expensive to repair, at least if the pack is damaged. OTOH, what would a factory engine and/or transmission cost on a new BMW, Audi, or Range Rover?

In the US at least, I doubt insurance costs are spread much across brands/models. For better or worse, Americans don't approve of such socialist tendencies.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I saw a few reports recently that showed all modern cars, regardless of EV or ICE have astronomical repair costs due to tech and sensors. Based on a few accidents I have seen the results of, this seems to be true, especially just in the last 5 years or so. No doubt EVs are expensive to repair, at least if the pack is damaged. OTOH, what would a factory engine and/or transmission cost on a new BMW, Audi, or Range Rover?

Exactly, I'd hate to think what a crate engine of my 5.0V8 Supercharged (650Hp) would cost.

In the US at least, I doubt insurance costs are spread much across brands/models. For better or worse, Americans don't approve of such socialist tendencies.

And it isn't either over here, it is a regulated industry. Becoming an actuary is one of the toughest studies anyone can do. These aren't some wide boys in the pub making up the premiums. I'm just amazed at some people seeing conspiracy everywhere.

 

[pacmania1982]

I just got mine delivered last week.

It's a Jeep Avenger Summit. I love it so far.



We also recently got a 21 plate Skoda Octavia vRS iV (Petrol Hybrid) which is lovely too

 

[scubachap]

Never watched South Park so don’t really get the reference. But air pollution has significantly improved in Cities where congestion charges have actively encouraged EV ownership. London being a good example.

London is currently a bad example as it depends how you define pollution, for example the congestion charge is really all about NOx emissions as opposed to CO2. I don't anyone who bought an EV as a result of it's widening out to were most people live (the famous doughnut of outer boroughs). Those of us who were forced to switch vehicles have pretty all gone petrol or nearly new adblue diesel - EV's are still generally pretty much out of the price range of people who buy used cars. I'm still smarting about having to offload a 2014 diesel estate with 45,000 on the clock that I was going use for quite a few more years. I replaced it with a secondhand 1.4 petrol equivalent. I get the desirability of reducing NOx emissions but I'm now using more fuel, creating a lot more CO2 plus have created the demand for an additional car.

Interestingly they seem to be currently withholding data for the success (or otherwise) of the expansion until after the upcoming Mayoral election - I strongly suspect the while NOx will have dropped CO2 emissions must have increased.

Look, I'm really not against EVs - I would actually like one, in many ways they make a lot more sense than ICE (all that complicated and highly engineered nonsense under the bonnet in my car is a really complicated way to make an axle turn - a simple electric motor is a much better idea.) But, at the moment they're simply too expensive for the average Joe like myself who are single car households and buys secondhand.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

London is currently a bad example as it depends how you define pollution, for example the congestion charge is really all about NOx emissions as opposed to CO2. I don't anyone who bought an EV as a result of it's widening out to were most people live (the famous doughnut of outer boroughs). Those of us who were forced to switch vehicles have pretty all gone petrol or nearly new adblue diesel - EV's are still generally pretty much out of the price range of people who buy used cars. I'm still smarting about having to offload a 2014 diesel estate with 45,000 on the clock that I was going use for quite a few more years. I replaced it with a secondhand 1.4 petrol equivalent. I get the desirability of reducing NOx emissions but I'm now using more fuel, creating a lot more CO2 plus have created the demand for an additional car.

Interestingly they seem to be currently withholding data for the success (or otherwise) of the expansion until after the upcoming Mayoral election - I strongly suspect the while NOx will have dropped CO2 emissions must have increased.

Look, I'm really not against EVs - I would actually like one, in many ways they make a lot more sense than ICE (all that complicated and highly engineered nonsense under the bonnet in my car is a really complicated way to make an axle turn - a simple electric motor is a much better idea.) But, at the moment they're simply too expensive for the average Joe like myself who are single car households and buys secondhand.

So many cheap EVs on the second hand market; it is a buyer's market, big time. Mazda around 12-15k for like a 2-year-old car. Lots and lots of Tesla Model 3s. Heck, even 2wd Polestars you can have for less than 20K. Or the luxury Jaguar iPace. In fact, there are currently (I just looked) 7,376 fully electric cars under 20k up for sale on autotrader. And in the current buyer's market, anyone should be able to get between 8-15% on asking prices.

There are 676 cars up for sale under 10K, considering how new this market is, that is a huge amount of affordable cars.

 

[scubachap]

So many cheap EVs on the second hand market; it is a buyer's market, big time. Mazda around 12-15k for like a 2-year-old car. Lots and lots of Tesla Model 3s. Heck, even 2wd Polestars you can have for less than 20K. Or the luxury Jaguar iPace. In fact, there are currently (I just looked) 7,376 fully electric cars under 20k up for sale on autotrader. And in the current buyer's market, anyone should be able to get between 8-15% on asking prices.

There are 676 cars up for sale under 10K, considering how new this market is, that is a huge amount of affordable cars.

Ha, 676 cars, that's really, really, not a huge number. (Just looked and right now there's 154,000 other cars available at under £10,000). At the higher end even 7,000 vehicles isn't many. (309,000 others available at under £20,000).

The people I know at the moment who have EVs are either getting them on a company scheme, run mini cabs/Uber, or are pretty well off and use as a second runabout or are retired boomers with decent pensions who have bought a Tesla as a hobby.

I know of no-one who's gone out and paid cash for a secondhand EV as their only vehicle - that's not to say there isn't anyone but, I know a lot of people who've had to change their car recently ;-)

As mentioned previously I'm really not arguing against EVs but I suspect the immediate future will be hybrids for many of us secondhand buyers.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Ha, 676 cars, that's really, really, not a huge number. (Just looked and right now there's 154,000 other cars available at under £10,000). At the higher end even 7,000 vehicles isn't many. (309,000 others available at under £20,000).

Sure, relatively that is not a huge number, but that is still 676 cars under 10K. How many do you need?

The people I know at the moment who have EVs are either getting them on a company scheme, run mini cabs/Uber, or are pretty well off and use as a second runabout or are retired boomers with decent pensions who have bought a Tesla as a hobby.

As good as every other house where I live has one in our lane. No company cars, doesn't really make financial sense. Just a cash purchase. We live in great times where for 40-60K you can get an outstanding car with performance where previously you had to spend north of 100K to get the same. And it costs next to nothing to run. My wife used to have a BMW M2 Competition, spent £60 every three days on filling it up. Now the same 17K miles in a car more powerful, costs us £395 per year!!! Super cheap to run.

Yes, some people get cars on salary sacrifice, going to be the next financial scandal in de UK.

I know of no-one who's gone out and paid cash for a secondhand EV as their only vehicle - that's not to say there isn't anyone but, I know a lot of people who've had to change their car recently ;-)

More fool them in my opinion They are really missing out on huge benefits. But besides the monetary benefits, the way it drives is even better, and the convenience of everyday leaving one's home with a full tank of 'fuel' is priceless.

But granted, you may live in a different demographic, there may not be the possibility for home charging. But your original point was that they aren't affordable secondhand. Well, that is clearly not true, plenty of cars available in the lower end of the market and for second hand buyers.

As mentioned previously I'm really not arguing against EVs but I suspect the immediate future will be hybrids for many of us secondhand buyers.

I think there are still way to many 'pub stories' about ev that somehow some people believe. Considering the prices of EVs and the way they drive. I'd skip hybrids...