Why Do People Still Buy The 17" Macbook Pro?

[Swampus]

My big problem with this approach is that by lumping everyone's needs into one group you invariably short the pros. The current marketing and design is targeted firmly towards hipsters who use their computers in coffee shops (so don't need wired internet connections), don't produce or use large amounts of data (so don't value large internal storage), don't really understand technology (and so never upgrade), and value shape, weight, and flashiness of screen over everything else.
By essentially ditching a real pro line I'm sure they're making more money.
I'd love to see an 'air' line with retina screens, really small, no memory or storage etc, and a 'pro' line with discrete graphics, larger screens, options for upgradable and more internal storage, upgradable RAM etc.

I tend to agree. Really, I think there is room in their lineup to bring back the 15" and 17" in the cMBP form factor and offer it with some mobile workstation class GPU options. Four memory slots would be nice for up to 32GB. Two internal drive bays. Maybe even three drives? Their new super fast flash drive could be standard in addition to two traditional 2.5" bays. Dell has a couple of options like that with on-board support for RAID 5 (when all three drives are installed).

They could use something between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro in their desktop lineup (something that's not an all-in-one). Something with a couple of PCIe slots, three or four internal bays, and a PSU powerful enough to accommodate aftermarket GPU options.

But I'm just dreaming.

...And if you need 2 TB of storage and 32 GB of RAM go buy yourself a Mac Pro.

But why? Relative to their desktop counterparts, high end laptops are more powerful than ever before. For many, there is really no need for both. And if you need a portable...

 

[ozone]

They could use something between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro in their desktop lineup (something that's not an all-in-one). Something with a couple of PCIe slots, three or four internal bays, and a PSU powerful enough to accommodate aftermarket GPU options.

Yes! I want a mini-tower format, but not as small as the Mac Mini... which is great, but I'd rather have a bit of room to install a few extra items, as opposed to dongles and cables all over the place.

As for the 17" MBPro discussion... I'm glad this thread was started. I want to know if people think that latest 17" MBP is still current enough for photography editing (e.g., Lightroom) and will stay reasonably current for a few more years. I wanted to get a 15" rMBP but was unaware that they are no longer user upgradable for memory or even hard drive. I'd like a 17" retina, but think I might prefer screen real estate versus printing. I have an old 17" PowerBook so I know the 77" is not easy to carry, but I'm looking for "moderate" portability as opposed to all-out portability.

 

[snouter]

2011 MBP 17 screen is pretty good. IPS. Not wide gamut though. It's not retina, but the res is pretty tight. Small text looks just fine on it.

 

[Swampus]

...As for the 17" MBPro discussion... I'm glad this thread was started. I want to know if people think that latest 17" MBP is still current enough for photography editing (e.g., Lightroom) and will stay reasonably current for a few more years..

Yes, easily. They're still quite powerful. Not the greatest GPU, but that won't matter to Lightroom. Honestly, I think a 2011 13" with an i5 would be more than enough for most people, but LR will utilize all eight threads of the i7 Quad and you'll appreciate that when doing any adjustments or running filters or even just rendering high quality previews from raw files.

I wanted to get a 15" rMBP but was unaware that they are no longer user upgradable for memory or even hard drive.

I wouldn't let the memory thing bother me if I wanted a retina model. It's not terribly expensive to max it out at time of purchase and we may never be able to put more memory than that in the classic models anyway (Is it known whether or not recent cMBPs would take 32GB memory if 16GB modules were available?).

As far as the screen difference, I'd try to compare for yourself if possible. It may also be helpful to lurk the LR forums and see how the differing opinions correspond to your own preferences. I would prefer a 17", but the 15" Retinal model has won over a lot of former 17" owners. Best to compare for yourself if you can.

Also, thekev mentioned the AMD GPU failures in the 2011 models. I think that's a legitimate concern. It has been reported by quite a few owners. How many is quite a few? No idea. More than 1%? Less than 1%? No idea. But maybe a little extra risky to purchase with no AppleCare? I'd look for an Apple Certified Refurb if you decide to go that way.

 

[Mike Boreham]

I'd look for an Apple Certified Refurb if you decide to go that way.

Someone else mentioned the refurb option earlier, but I keep a sharp eye on the refurb pages (have had three refurbs in the past) and I have not seen any 17 inch refurbs for a long time. I am in UK perhaps it is different in US. I recently bought a late 2011 17 inch from CEX in UK but would have much preferred a refurb.

 

[ozone]

Someone else mentioned the refurb option earlier, but I keep a sharp eye on the refurb pages (have had three refurbs in the past) and I have not seen any 17 inch refurbs for a long time.

No, Apple Canada does not list any more MBP 17" refurbs. I remember about a year ago looking at the 17" refurbs, remarking on their great pricing, and thinking if I want one, now's the time to get one. My computing needs were different back then, so I sadly never bothered. Now I wish I had ordered one.

A few stores have used ones, and they come with a 90 day warranty, so I might explore that route.

The other issue is - as mentioned by another poster - that a lot of former 17" users have moved to the rMBP 15" model, and I got to admit, the current 15" model is noticeably more portable: about 2 lbs lighter, thinner, and easier to handle. I figure if I buy a larger notebook, there's no point buying something so heavy that it discourages you from using it. Plus, the ThinkTank backpack I have is limited to hauling a 15" notebook.

I guess logically an rMBP makes more sense. I just kind of miss all the real estate surrounding the keyboard: that's like a statement!

 

[Swampus]

Someone else mentioned the refurb option earlier, but I keep a sharp eye on the refurb pages (have had three refurbs in the past) and I have not seen any 17 inch refurbs for a long time. I am in UK perhaps it is different in US. I recently bought a late 2011 17 inch from CEX in UK but would have much preferred a refurb.

I didn't even know this was possible, but my friend purchased his refurbished model outside of Apple. He purchased it at Micro Center (a pretty big chain in the United States). It wasn't available for mail order. He had to drive 200 miles to a physical store to get it. It came with the normal one year Apple warranty and he purchased AppleCare on it immediately (Normally, I think unwise since it doesn't cover accidents. If he drops it in the swimming pool the first year, he will have wasted money on something that he will never be eligible to use. Best to wait to the last minute to purchase AppleCare. But my friend was worried that this might be a mistake, that Apple might be unaware that 2011 models were still being sold this way, so he wanted to go ahead and lock it in).

Anyway, I don't how this works in the US, much less the UK. Everything I've purchased was directly through the refurbished section of Apple's website. I advise caution. The word "refurbished" means nothing. I saw a "refurbished Macbook" at a local independent a while back. It looked beaten to death, so I just had to ask what "refurbished" meant. They explained it to me using a lot of fancy technical words, not knowing that I actually speak that language. I'll translate here: "Yeah, the hard drive was bad, so we pulled one from a five year old Compaq and installed an illegal copy of Tiger on it that we got from Pirate Bay. Then we sprayed the screen with Windex. Just like new."

The phrase "Apple Certified Refurbished" does mean something. Except for the different box, it's the same experience as purchasing new. There will not be the slightest hint of flaw (even the metal back of my iPod was flawless). You get the same warranty (directly from Apple) and the same option to extend with AppleCare.

Again, I advise caution, but I'd think that an Apple Authorized Reseller offering something as "Apple Certified Refurbished" would be worth looking into. I'd think that it would be well understood to an authorized reseller that misuse of the phrase "Apple Certified Refurbished" would mean a trip to the woodshed for them.

 

[disasterdrone]

Yes, easily. They're still quite powerful. Not the greatest GPU, but that won't matter to Lightroom. Honestly, I think a 2011 13" with an i5 would be more than enough for most people, but LR will utilize all eight threads of the i7 Quad and you'll appreciate that when doing any adjustments or running filters or even just rendering high quality previews from raw files.

I'm guessing screen size will be an issue for someone primarily using LR.

----------

But why? Relative to their desktop counterparts, high end laptops are more powerful than ever before. For many, there is really no need for both. And if you need a portable...

Cos Apple's marketing people say most people don't need it. The target demographic is using Instagram, not Photoshop. Youtube, not Final Cut.

 

[Swampus]

I'm guessing screen size will be an issue for someone primarily using LR.

For LR, I'd prefer the 17" over a greater number of pixels crammed into a smaller space. But not everyone would agree.

Cos Apple's marketing people say most people don't need it. The target demographic is using Instagram, not Photoshop. Youtube, not Final Cut.

You're right, of course. It's just weird when you were part of that niche demographic at a time when Apple depended on it for survival. I don't begrudge their success in the consumer market. They makes some very nice things that people like. I own some myself. It'd just be nice to see more options on the high end.

 

[ozone]

I didn't even know this was possible, but my friend purchased his refurbished model outside of Apple. He purchased it at Micro Center (a pretty big chain in the United States). It wasn't available for mail order. He had to drive 200 miles to a physical store to get it.

Thanks for reminding me about MicroCenter. I'm close enough to the border that it's within driving distance. Might be worth checking out.

 

[Mike Boreham]

The word "refurbished" means nothing. I saw a "refurbished Macbook" at a local independent a while back. It looked beaten to death, so I just had to ask what "refurbished" meant. They explained it to me using a lot of fancy technical words, not knowing that I actually speak that language. I'll translate here: "Yeah, the hard drive was bad, so we pulled one from a five year old Compaq and installed an illegal copy of Tiger on it that we got from Pirate Bay. Then we sprayed the screen with Windex. Just like new."

The phrase "Apple Certified Refurbished" does mean something. Except for the different box, it's the same experience as purchasing new. There will not be the slightest hint of flaw (even the metal back of my iPod was flawless). You get the same warranty (directly from Apple) and the same option to extend with AppleCare.

Absolutely!

My experience with three Apple Certified Refurbished MacBook Pros has been flawless.

 

[thekev]

No one ever said anything about people wanting a portable machine. And the 17 inch MBP is hardly portable. It's around 5 pounds and insanely large. If you're carrying that around it's a bigger problem, you should get a 13 or 15 inch.

When it gets past what I can carry in my pocket, it makes little difference to me whether it's 4 pounds or 6 (17" is around 6). It would have to get to a point where it feels like a burden.In either case I wouldn't carry my notebook bare.

 

[vpro]

I figured screen size, but why would someone pay $1800 for a 17" MBP with older technology, for example, an older graphics card, USB 2.0, older i7 processor, etc? They could get a used or refurbished 15" Retina for the same amount.

the 17"mbp will last far longer - simple, that is why.

 

[CARABAO]

Welcome me back to the club! I accidentally spilled scotch on my 2012 MBA three nights ago (RIP) and I just had to get a replacement right away. So i bit the bullet and got a used early 2011 17".

It's not as fast as my MBA / Late 2011 17" MBP that I stupidly sold. But Im gonna put in a Samsung EVO 250ssd, upgrade the ram to 16gb and put the 750gb hdd in the drive bay. That'll surely shake things up!

 

[accountforit]

When it gets past what I can carry in my pocket, it makes little difference to me whether it's 4 pounds or 6 (17" is around 6). It would have to get to a point where it feels like a burden.In either case I wouldn't carry my notebook bare.

So you like a desktop computer sitting on your lap? Got it.

 

[thekev]

So you like a desktop computer sitting on your lap? Got it.

Hello Mr. Strawman. I don't use it on my lap most of the time. I mentioned very specifically that past where it fits in my pocket, it has to get to the point where it actually feels like a burden to make a real difference. The phone can be carried in my pocket. With notebooks I use a soft case or cushioned backpack to transport them. It would be the same with the mba, as I dislike carrying a bare notebook and charger. In your desktop example, it would feel burdensome to transport. The 17" doesn't reach that threshold for me. It's not really necessary to distort things in an attempt to make a point. Plenty of people have transported 17" mbps on a regular basis. The 15" rmbp is just marginally more pleasant to transport if it's accompanied by a lot of other weight.

 

[toke lahti]

What it is missing:
- 17" haptic multitouch swivel anti-glare autostereoscopic wide gamut OLED retina display
- DisplayPort 1.3
- At least 2 USB ports should be eSATAp
- Magnesium case
- Replaceable discrete graphics card
- 10Gbps SFP+ slot instead of Gbase-T
- BDXL-RE burner

Yes!
I just can't believe there's no matte screen available in new macbooks.
Reflections are annoying as hell!
Macs are now in pretty deep thunderbolt trap.
Dp1.3 would need TB3, but Apple can't make new MP obsolete after all these years users have been waiting for it.

 

[mariogt]

I still have the late 2011 17 macbook pro model, pimped with 2 SSDs, 16GB (1600mhz) and several express cards (USB 3, SD card reader, eSata port, etc) why ?, because Im not going to upgrade unless the current MacBooks pro DOUBLED the speed of my "ancient behemoth".When I upgraded my machine from a 2010 15 macbook pro to the 17 model, my geekbench score climbed from nearly 6000 to 12000, that is what I call a upgrade for god sake. For my programming needs (and compiling time) 1500 or 2000 more geekbench point don't really change anything for me (that is going to be my benefit if I buy the top of the line rMBP), but 6000 point would make a big impact in my compiling times. Beside the 17MBP its easy in my eyes with its BIG screen, I can plug my FW800 hard drives, ethernet port, 3 USB 2 port (plus 2 USB 3 ports in the express card), audio in, out, thunderbolt & display port for connecting my external monitor, and so on. This is easily the best machine I have had .. !!!

 

[thekev]

Yes!
I just can't believe there's no matte screen available in new macbooks.
Reflections are annoying as hell!
Macs are now in pretty deep thunderbolt trap.
Dp1.3 would need TB3, but Apple can't make new MP obsolete after all these years users have been waiting for it.

Huh? Intel doesn't have anything that would support that at this point. Part of the reason is that the displayport 1.3 spec isn't even finalized at this point. You are a minimum of 2 years off from seeing it in a shipping Mac.

 

[Mike Boreham]

I still have the late 2011 17 macbook pro model, pimped with 2 SSDs...........

Can I ask what SSD you have in the optical bay?

As I am sure you know, 2011 and 2012 MBPs have problems with 6G devices in the optical bay if the optical bay is a 6G variety (a few are 3G and work fine with 6G but at 3G speed). Some MBPs do seems to be OK with 6G in the optical but mine, like most, isn't, hence interested in what you have there....and also if your optical is a 6G or 3G.

 

[mariogt]

Can I ask what SSD you have in the optical bay?

As I am sure you know, 2011 and 2012 MBPs have problems with 6G devices in the optical bay if the optical bay is a 6G variety (a few are 3G and work fine with 6G but at 3G speed). Some MBPs do seems to be OK with 6G in the optical but mine, like most, isn't, hence interested in what you have there....and also if your optical is a 6G or 3G.

Hi my SSDs are one Samsung 6G (500gb) on the main bay, and a OWC 3G (480GB) in the optical bay, In the system info shows that both bays support 6G data transfers .

 

[toke lahti]

Part of the reason is that the displayport 1.3 spec isn't even finalized at this point. You are a minimum of 2 years off from seeing it in a shipping Mac.

Dp1.3 will be finalized within 4 months now.
New macbooks don't even support dp1.2 then.
See the problem?

 

[Mike Boreham]

Hi my SSDs are one Samsung 6G (500gb) on the main bay, and a OWC 3G (480GB) in the optical bay, In the system info shows that both bays support 6G data transfers .

Thanks, makes sense. I didn't realise there was a 480 3G available from OWC.

My system profiler also says it "supports" 6G in the optical bay, as do most MBPs, but most are very flaky with a 6G device in the optical and OWC recommends against it. Did you put a 3G SSD in your optical because you know this or for another reason?

I have 6G HGST 1.5Tb HDD in my optical but I have used HGST Tools to reset it as 3G device so it works fine.

 

[thekev]

Dp1.3 will be finalized within 4 months now.
New macbooks don't even support dp1.2 then.
See the problem?

Apple states that both the mac pro and retina macbook pro use thunderbolt 2. As long as the gpu driver is capable of full displayport 1.2 support, it will be fine. Full displayport 1.2 support was kind of slow, even if it wasn't as dreadfully slow on non-Macs.

 

[toke lahti]

Apple states that both the mac pro and retina macbook pro use thunderbolt 2. As long as the gpu driver is capable of full displayport 1.2 support, it will be fine. Full displayport 1.2 support was kind of slow, even if it wasn't as dreadfully slow on non-Macs.

Wow!
Ok, my bad, Apple has made a secret upgrade bumb to mbp!
TB2 didn't even exist before new MP...

EDIT:
Just found:
http://9to5mac.com/2013/10/22/apple...underbolt-2-new-graphics-better-battery-life/
http://9to5mac.com/2013/12/23/new-r...hen-running-windows-mac-os-needs-new-drivers/

Somehow I and a lot of other people missed the news about TB2 when new mbp was introduced. Maybe because there weren't drivers at that time to use 4k @60Hz. I just thought than newMP was first with TB2...