Will LOGIC Replace PRO TOOLS?

[dLight]

...will often ask me first whether I have Pro Tools or not and then feel reassured once I confirm. If I were to say no, they'd instantly look down at the studio as second rate.

That used to be the case here as well, bit since so many high end users now do their whole production in Logic, and they know it, times are changing. These people maybe even knew that the latency and DSP issues weren't real issues back when high end studios relied on hardware mixers for low latency and analog/external effects instead of plugins.

I don't think it'll ever be a replacement in the audio field though...

USB 2.0 and FW 400/800 will be replaced by USB 3.0 and FW 3200...

Who knows, if they get enough things right they may even get you back on board

Well... I never used the Pro Tools application, I only needed the hardware - and whatever happens, I won't need it anymore.

Regarding sales, I'm not going to speculate on Digidesign's worldwide sales figure based on the words of one dealer.

The source wasn't one dealer, it was 'his sources'. I also know from several other Digi dealers that new HD sales have been diminishing dramatically.

Ha. You're right. So am I right in saying there's only been 2 updates since the release of Logic 8 in 2007?

Yes - a total of three updates (8.0, 8.01 and 8.02) in one year, three months and three weeks. I want updates at least every month... I am surprised 8.03 hasn't been released (8.02 was released in May/June last year).

Digidesign have always released constant patches through both their internal research as well as user reports. This has especially been the case over the last 3 or 4 years.

They have improved a lot, and are posting a lot more updates than they used to do (and than Apple does for Logic)... but are - for various reasons - rather slow at announcing support for new OS versions.

If I remember right, Logic was the first DAW to support PPC chips, to support OSX, and to support Intel, and will probably also be the first DAW to support Snow Leopard, which could explain why I don't get a new Logic update every month...

If they are working on it, I'm sure it'll be great.

Of course they are.

Apple's main interest isn't that people shouldn't buy Digidesign stuff. What they want, is to make a good hardware platform, a good OS, and good apps. If TDM based studios also buy Logic (for compatibility with all the Logic users out there), they also need a Mac. Now, almost all high end studios are Mac based anyway, and if these studios also buy Logic, the result is that it doesn't matter that much (for Apple) if Logic will replace Pro Tools or not.

The real 'winner' is the one with the best features/UI/performance/stability.

WHen 16 core Macs are out, when people use 240 core graphic boards for audio (GPGPU/OpenCL) etc., the need for TDM systems will diminish even more, and high end users will keep having reasons for buying new Macs.

Apple's motivation isn't to 'kill' PT - but to make products they can be proud of and that people like. Apple is loaded with money, but I don't think Jobs or Logic's their developers/designers want to end up in a situation where Logic users migrate to other DAWs because Logic lacks features, stability or ease of use compared with eg. Pro Tools or Performer.

If Apple ever would discontinue Logic in the future, it would be because they have some other, better DAW to offer.

 

[WinterMute]

I think Digi need to respond to the raw power/price ratio that Mac/logic can bring to the problems of modern audio production, the workflow issue becomes secondary against the sheer amount of grunt an octacore Logic system has.

Inside info suggests that Digi are rebranding LE into M-audio, and Protools HD will be the only version actually available from them directly...

However, other intel (and the suspiciously Logic like look of PT8) also suggest that Digi may have been dealing with Apple for access to the code that allows the use of all 8 (and eventually 16) cores in the current Mac Pros, and that the new version of Protools will be a Mac only platform, which is in-line with dLight's thoughts on Apples position.

I've predicted a Protools version that is native, less hardware tied, Mac-only and multi-core capable, with a legacy PCI card to talk to the older TDM hardware. New interfaces will be FW800 and will not feature DSP chips as heavily.

I also predict a sub £2000 price point including multi-IO hardware and lots of plug-ins.

This effectively puts the choice back in the realms of creativity and which platform works best for your particular production style, not for your bank account.

I'm dreaming obviously, and being a MacRumors veteran has taught me that what we wish for is rarely what we get, but that often what we get is better than what we thought we wanted.

 

[dLight]

Digi may have been dealing with Apple for access to the code that allows the use of all 8 (and eventually 16) cores in the current Mac Pros

Interesting.... To "deal with" Apple to get access to that code shouldn't be necessary... and in OSX 10.6, due in a few months, one of the main changes we'll see is the implementation of "Grand Central", which "is designed to make it easier for application developers to take advantage of multiple CPU cores now being offered in computers. The technology works by splitting tasks into blocks and routing them to available processing cores efficiently. It attempts to let individual developers take advantage of a wide variety of different hardware that users might have at their disposal, without needing to become experts in multithreading themselves".

Anyway, all native audio apps need proper multi-core support, and the only 'bad' thing about Logic possibly getting it before the other DAWS, is that the wish/need to be 'cutting edge' in terms of supporting new Apple technology may mean that the implementation of new features may have to wait (just guessing here...)

New interfaces will be FW800 and will not feature DSP chips as heavily.

Isn't it more likely that high end systems should be based on Ethernet or Express cards (or USB3 / FW3200)?

Apple’s Grand Central threat to Microsoft

Does anybody have the exact market share numbers?

I don't think any public market share numbers for Logic or Pro Tools exist.

The closest you get are probably polls like the one in this thread, and this:

The ultimate Logic / native / Pro Tools poll

 

[dLight]

The closest you get are probably polls like the one in this thread, and this:

The ultimate Logic / native / Pro Tools poll

..and this poll, which suggests that the TDM format is used by only 17% of all DAW users.

 

[dLight]

Inside info suggests that Digi are rebranding LE into M-audio, and Protools HD will be the only version actually available from them directly...

It seems that according to the new plans there will be no separate companies any more - they're all (including Digidesign) going to be called Avid:

New Avid Brand Identity, Product Announcements and an updated Avid.com

 

[motulist]

It seems that according to the new plans there will be no separate companies any more - they're all (including Digidesign) going to be called Avid:

New Avid Brand Identity, Product Announcements and an updated Avid.com

Interesting, I wasn't even aware that some of those brand names were part of the same parent company.

 

[seisend]

well, I don't think Logic will be the new standart in the next few years.. But I personally think logic is a much greater programm. I love working with logic.
also there is much hardware around which performs great with logic. I personally use the Apogee Ensemble interface and it is one of the best buy decisions i've ever made cause it works so great with mac and logic and the sound is just incredible !