Tablets Windows 8 Tablet vs iPad

[Piggie]

I can't see the above happening as long as they sell the MacBook Air. If the MBA had a detachable keyboard and touch screen it's basically what asked for.

Indeed, and trust me on this one.

If Apple HAD of created a tablet such as the iPad, and clip on a magnetic keyboard/trackpad along the lines of the Msoft Surface one, and then the iPad could go into OSX mode and be like a mackbook air, many would jump up and down as if it's the ideal product.

Why buy and carry two devices, it's not like they are separate things, like a Gun and a Camera.
They are both oblong shaped computer, one with and one without a fixed keyboard.

Apart from speed/battery life/size & weight, there is no reason to want to buy and carry two separate items.

 

[s15119]

I don't think the 7 inch tablet fad is going to last long. It's just not a good size. Size wise, the iPad nailed it.

 

[Ay_Zimmy]

Indeed, and trust me on this one.

If Apple HAD of created a tablet such as the iPad, and clip on a magnetic keyboard/trackpad along the lines of the Msoft Surface one, and then the iPad could go into OSX mode and be like a mackbook air, many would jump up and down as if it's the ideal product.

Why buy and carry two devices, it's not like they are separate things, like a Gun and a Camera.
They are both oblong shaped computer, one with and one without a fixed keyboard.

Apart from speed/battery life/size & weight, there is no reason to want to buy and carry two separate items.

This is a good point. Everyone here would be saying how amazing it is.


Also, I get the windows surface will be like the phone but it's not as comparable as the iPad to the phone. It has USB ports etc, way more like a laptop tablet than a huge windows phone. And I already have an iPhone and that's why I'm going for the surface, if I had a windows phone it probably would have been vice versa.

 

[Fattytail]

Microsoft faces two big problems with Surface.

1) Surface RT can't run legacy Windows apps and the number of apps available for the touch Windows 8 UI will be extremely small. If they can't gain momentum with app developers, Surface RT will be essentially useless.

2) Surface Pro will suffer from all of the same problems as a conventional laptop. It'll run hot and battery life will be short. We're not technologically at the point where a desktop OS can be shoehorned into a tablet form factor without making serious compromises. By the time we get to that point, my guess is that the desktop OS X and iOS will be interoperable

 

[Piggie]

I don't think the 7 inch tablet fad is going to last long. It's just not a good size. Size wise, the iPad nailed it.

It really depends what you wish to do with a device and how you intend physically use it.

I'm sure you can imagine many times, esp in business, factories, retail, medical, anything on the move, where it would be very advantageous to have a device, like a phone you can hold in one hand comfortably whilst leaving the other hand free, to say, move paper around, lift items up to check them, move things to one side, perhaps even pick item up to check them etc etc.

An iPad is not really light enough or suitable enough size wise to be carried and used comfortably in one hand. Yes, you can hold it in one hand but it's not really designed in that way.

If I want a 7" device or not is not the point. I can see many scenarios where is would br more practical to do so.

 

[rowspaxe]

whither ios?

i think there is a market for surface pro, a full x86 computer with tablet form factor and wacom digitizer. Much is made of the fact this hasn't sold well before, but the hardware technology and os implementations have made an exceptional leap in the last year. Check out the user comments on amazon for the samsung slate 7, which is still running a desktop os. The market for this type of product will draw on current laptop and tablet users. So the question will be answered: does ios plus apps provide the magical experience everyone wants, or is it something people are dealing with in lieu of a fully realized tablet computer? I think surface pro will be huge hit and the age of the tablet "consumption" device with limited os's draw to a close. Obviously smartphones will continue to thrive, and i see no real destinction between phones and 7" tablets.

 

[Rodster]

Microsoft faces two big problems with Surface.

1) Surface RT can't run legacy Windows apps and the number of apps available for the touch Windows 8 UI will be extremely small. If they can't gain momentum with app developers, Surface RT will be essentially useless.

2) Surface Pro will suffer from all of the same problems as a conventional laptop. It'll run hot and battery life will be short.

First of from what i've read the Surface Pro is designed around a unique cooling system. They are targeting battery performance with that of the MBA or other ultra portables. We'll see if they get close.

Also the Surface Pro will be able to run Windows based programs along with Metro Based Apps, hence the 64 or 128GB SSD options. Microsoft Office is preloaded with the Pro model.

 

[Piggie]

Again, this is nothing that time won't fix.

Surface pro, in many years to come will be looked back on as Mk1 of perhaps a long line of devices, just like we look back at say an early Apple Laptop and compare it to a current model.

Such as this: http://i.haymarket.net.au/news/mac_portable.jpg

An this horrid looking item: http://www.ibookguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ibook_clamshell.jpg

Tech and design have moved forward a lot.

There is no reason to think that in X years time something the size of the current iPad would not be running Windows 11 perfectly, for example.

 

[Ay_Zimmy]

Again, this is nothing that time won't fix.

Surface pro, in many years to come will be looked back on as Mk1 of perhaps a long line of devices, just like we look back at say an early Apple Laptop and compare it to a current model.

Such as this: http://i.haymarket.net.au/news/mac_portable.jpg

An this horrid looking item: http://www.ibookguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ibook_clamshell.jpg

Tech and design have moved forward a lot.

There is no reason to think that in X years time something the size of the current iPad would not be running Windows 11 perfectly, for example.

Holy smokes the second one is god awful.. And yeah the iPad is only at its 3rd, computers and laptops have been around for decades. We have no idea what these products are going to be like in decades to come.

Anyways, Microsoft has been working on this tablet for awhile obviously, and they are playing it very smart as well. I just think it would be stupid to count out Microsoft in this. This is something that is down their alley, unlike the Zune that was cool for a week. Microsoft has a boat load of partnerships and office and all that good stuff, many perks Apple doesn't have, and Google just can't do it right. All I'm saying since I have an iPhone and a Macbook, I rather go for a Windows based product that relates most to the iPad. I personally don't want to ONLY own all Apple products, other companies have quality things to offer and I think Windows and the tablet is something that finally interests me other than Apple. It would be cool learning the software and all that good stuff. Microsoft knows how to play the game too, and this might be a Windows breakthrough for them.

 

[Rodster]

I personally don't want to ONLY own all Apple products, other companies have quality things to offer and I think Windows and the tablet is something that finally interests me other than Apple. It would be cool learning the software and all that good stuff. Microsoft knows how to play the game too, and this might be a Windows breakthrough for them.

Good for you !

Think Different

 

[ManicMarc]

I am really excited by the Surface. The thought of having a tablet one moment, then docking it the next and using as a desktop PC sounds great. As long as it's a tablet first (e.g. long battery, low heat, instant-on, always connected) I think it's a winner.

The Surface RT looks like the iPad competitor to me, while the Pro looks like a Macbook Air competitor. Good on Microsoft (at last!)

 

[Night Spring]

There is no reason to think that in X years time something the size of the current iPad would not be running Windows 11 perfectly, for example.

I totally think this is what will happen, eventually. And Microsoft and Apple are offering contrasting philosophies of what to do untl the hardware tech gets there. Microsoft wants to give us devices like Surface Pro that tries to be a combination laptop/tablet today, even though the hardware isn't quite there to carry it off. Apple will wait until the hardware tech is there to give us the best combo laptop/tablet, and until then, they will give us the best tablet and the best laptop they can make. I feel that if Apple stays true to form, we will have the repeat of what happened with mp3 players. Many companies used to make mp3 players, but they were clumsy and hard to use. Apple came in and made the iPod. And blew everyone away. When Apple finally makes a tablet/laptop hybrid, they may do so later than everyone, but they will do it the best way. Or at least, that is what would happen under Steve Jobs. We'll see if Tim Cook and co can keep it up.

I am really excited by the Surface. The thought of having a tablet one moment, then docking it the next and using as a desktop PC sounds great. As long as it's a tablet first (e.g. long battery, low heat, instant-on, always connected) I think it's a winner.

This was my first thought when I first followed Microsoft's announcement, but the more I thought about it, the less convinced I became. The fact that Microsoft hasn't announced battery life is very concerning. Plus, working with desktop applications when the Surface is in tablet mode is a no-go, because the apps aren't designed for touch interface, and 10inch is not enough screen space. Ideally, what should happen is that, for instance, apps should run in Metro mode when working in tablet mode, and in desktop mode when being used as a desktop. But from what I've seen of Windows 8, that's not how it is designed. For instance, there are two versions of Internet Explorer, one Metro and one desktop. And i think they should be one app with two modes -- but no, they are two separate apps. That does not bode well -- it is a fundamental misstep, IMO, in the conceptualization of how tablet and laptop modes should relate to each other.

The Surface RT looks like the iPad competitor to me, while the Pro looks like a Macbook Air competitor. Good on Microsoft (at last!)

I'm sure that is what Microsoft envisions, but for RT to be a true iPad competitor, its app market will have to take off. And for Pro to be an Air competitor, well, looked at as a laptop, the Pro is just a netbook. I haven't seen any evidence yet that it will be easier to use than the 10inch netbooks, and I feel there's a good chance it'll be harder to use than a netbook -- that kickstand and keyboard cover combo sure looks like it takes a lot of flat surface to lay it out.

 

[Piggie]

Holy smokes the second one is god awful..

Some more for you:

Official launch:
Everyone going nuts and cheering as per normal:

http://youtu.be/cdpRSj7tLiY

 

[rowspaxe]

pen vs retina

Interesting that no one has mentioned the digitizing pen. i think the pen interface will spur win8 adaption in student and designer markets and this will in turn drive mind share in the total market. A textbook reader with true mark up functionality will be huge. Add a keyboard cover and you have an incredible necleus of functionality. Ironically, by embracing retina and its hardware overhead, apple has nearly leveled the playing field with surface in terms of weight.
Also, the kickstand seems ungainly untill you see it next to an ipad with a rolled up smart cover.

 

[TSE]

What the Pro model needs to be successful:

1. Atleast a 8 hour realistic battery life

2. No fans

What the RT model needs to be successful:

1. A good App store

2. Microsoft Office integration

3. Lower price than an iPad unless it offers something substantial.

4. Something the Nexus Tablet can't do.

 

[Night Spring]

Interesting that no one has mentioned the digitizing pen. i think the pen interface will spur win8 adaption in student and designer markets and this will in turn drive mind share in the total market. A textbook reader with true mark up functionality will be huge. Add a keyboard cover and you have an incredible necleus of functionality. Ironically, by embracing retina and its hardware overhead, apple has nearly leveled the playing field with surface in terms of weight.
Also, the kickstand seems ungainly untill you see it next to an ipad with a rolled up smart cover.

Oh yes, totally forgot about the pen, thanks for the reminder. I agree that pen does seem cool in concept. I especially like that we'll be able to rest our palm on the tablet as we write. Will be very interesting to see how well it works in real life.

As for kickstand vs smart cover, yes, the kickstand probably works better on a flat surface. But what about not very flat surfaces, like knees and pillows? I know from experience that a rolled-up smart cover does pretty well on my knee. I'm not sure about the kickstand. We'll have to see how it does when it's released -- which reminds me, the RT is to be released along with Windows 8, so sometime this fall. The Pro is three months after that, so at the earliest, December 2012, more likely early 2013. By that time, iPad 4 will be around the corner, and personally, I'd wait for Apple to announce the 4 before making any purchasing decisions. IMO, it's not very smart of Microsoft to pre announce the Surface so early, gives Apple plenty of time to implement counter-moves, if any are needed.

 

[Piggie]

What the Pro model needs to be successful:

1. Atleast a 8 hour realistic battery life

2. No fans

What the RT model needs to be successful:

1. A good App store

2. Microsoft Office integration

3. Lower price than an iPad unless it offers something substantial.

4. Something the Nexus Tablet can't do.

Is the macbook air a failure as it has a silent fan inside?

Why would the RT model need a lower price. It's not trying to be a cheap lower spec alternative to an iPad

 

[TSE]

Is the macbook air a failure as it has a silent fan inside?

Why would the RT model need a lower price. It's not trying to be a cheap lower spec alternative to an iPad

The MacBook Air is not a tablet. At the very least the Pro tablet should have a completely silent fan.

Unless the RT model has some substantial features the iPad doesn't have, why would anyone buy it if it is just as much as the iPad? The iPad basically owns the premium tablet market right now.

 

[Rodster]

According to this presentation The Surface won't use a fan to keep it running cool. It uses a unique cooling system called "Perimeter Venting".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep9bem6O9r4

 

[ManicMarc]

What the Pro model needs to be successful:

1. Atleast a 8 hour realistic battery life

2. No fans

There are no fans. Rumors have it that the Pro will use a new Intel chipset (that's the reason for the 3 month delay) so we can hope that means decent battery life.

What the RT model needs to be successful:

1. A good App store

2. Microsoft Office integration

Windows RT comes with Office on the Desktop. The selection of apps isn't a big deal for me, what I think matters is to have this months "hot app" in your store. When someone says "Hey have you seen this cool app" you don't want to be disappointed. That would have been "Draw Something" 2 months ago. Whether there is 5,000 or 50,000 apps in total makes little difference really.

 

[johndallas999]

Ugh. More than two years later and there are still "It's just a giant iPhone" people out there.

I think that if you don't like an iPad and don't see a place for it in your life, that's great. You probably won't see a place for any other tablet in your life either, Windows 8 or whatever. Stick to notebooks for your computing needs. The iPad was never designed to replace a computer. It was designed to be an extension of a computer at best, and a media consumption device. Windows 8 tablets are being designed to replace computers, and so will probably not do as well as iPads, because they won't be able to do better than what they're trying to replace. People will prefer to use their existing notebooks because they work better, cost less and aren't that much less portable.

Ugh, I hate the term "Media Consumption". Such an over used term and so cheezy.

 

[Rodster]

Ugh, I hate the term "Media Consumption". Such an over used term and so cheezy.

Agreed !

They can also take the phrases 'surfing the web' and 'content' with them.

 

[Piggie]

Unless the RT model has some substantial features the iPad doesn't have, why would anyone buy it if it is just as much as the iPad? The iPad basically owns the premium tablet market right now.

Because, And I know this is hard concept to grasp, some people just don't want to use Apple with their tie downs.

I have an iPad, and have to put up with horrid iTunes.

I would rather not own anything apple if I can find good alternatives, so I'm waiting to see what these ones are before I spend more money

 

[irnchriz]

It really depends what you wish to do with a device and how you intend physically use it.

I'm sure you can imagine many times, esp in business, factories, retail, medical, anything on the move, where it would be very advantageous to have a device, like a phone you can hold in one hand comfortably whilst leaving the other hand free, to say, move paper around, lift items up to check them, move things to one side, perhaps even pick item up to check them etc etc.

An iPad is not really light enough or suitable enough size wise to be carried and used comfortably in one hand. Yes, you can hold it in one hand but it's not really designed in that way.

If I want a 7" device or not is not the point. I can see many scenarios where is would br more practical to do so.

What complete and utter tosh. It's similar in size to a clipboard which have been used in your example jobs for decades.

It's designed to be held in one or two hands. You can prop the bottom up against yourself at a reasonable distance and still easily manipulate the screen and read it.

As to being too heavy, I think that some of you guys need to get a can of 'man up'.

 

[Night Spring]

What complete and utter tosh. It's similar in size to a clipboard which have been used in your example jobs for decades.

It's designed to be held in one or two hands. You can prop the bottom up against yourself at a reasonable distance and still easily manipulate the screen and read it.

As to being too heavy, I think that some of you guys need to get a can of 'man up'.

I agree that the size is not a problem, but the weight could be lighter. For many of us, "manning up" is not an option -- people may have disabilities, may be just naturally not so muscular, may already be carrying a lot of other stuff and every ounce counts, etc.

That said, I personally don't think I'd use a 7 inch tablet, for me the trade off of larger screen size is worth the extra weight.