Wine and Beer Enthusiasts

[calderone]

In the US, for most of your mass produced beer, is usually in the four to high fives in the ABV. There are exceptions, some are now doing six to seven percent beers. Budlight Platinum and the like.

Most of the ones I drink are usually in the high nines to ten and above. I love dogfish heads 120 minute IPA. Super strong though. If you can find it on tap, it is freaking a glorious sight and taste!

Not to mention some of the Stone Brewery stuff (which is one of my favorites) is north of the nine percent!

If you like stouts, try Avery's Mephisto Stout. It is a sipping beer and man does it pack a punch! It is actually pretty good too!

http://averybrewing.com/our-ales/mephistopheles/

5 monks is another one, bourbon barrel aged quad. Came in at 19.5%.

On the topic of ABV, most of what I drink is 9%+.

 

[VI™]

In the US, for most of your mass produced beer, is usually in the four to high fives in the ABV. There are exceptions, some are now doing six to seven percent beers. Budlight Platinum and the like.

Most of the ones I drink are usually in the high nines to ten and above. I love dogfish heads 120 minute IPA. Super strong though. If you can find it on tap, it is freaking a glorious sight and taste!

Not to mention some of the Stone Brewery stuff (which is one of my favorites) is north of the nine percent!

If you like stouts, try Avery's Mephisto Stout. It is a sipping beer and man does it pack a punch! It is actually pretty good too!

http://averybrewing.com/our-ales/mephistopheles/

Fortunately in this day of brewing enlightenment, not all "micro brews" are exactly micro anymore. Sure there's breweries that are small and have a small distribution radius, but others like Rogue, Flying Dog, Dogfish Head, Troegs, Stone, Oscar Blues, and more are available throughout half the country if not all of the country. I can pick up a 6 pack of 8% Belgian IPA at 7-11 in the cooler right next to a case of Miller High Life. 10 years ago Sam Adams would have been the best option I had available. I can go to the grocery store right down from my house and have a selection of probably 10-15 different brands that were once considered micro or rare crafts that I would have had to drive to an out of state Liquor store (WV's beer laws used to limit ABV to 6% up until 2-3 years ago) just to see. It's just not the same as it used to be and that's a good thing.

Not to mention the concentration of home brewers. Even in a smaller town I live in we have a fair amount.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Mc Chouffe is one of my personal favourites. It was first brewed in 1987 8% it has the spices coriander and wild garel (Bog Myrtle).

It has in the last few years really become a main stay of the special beer market here in the low countries.
If things go as planned MC Chouffe will more than likely make the trip across the big water.



I am very happy to be of help.

Thank you very much.

Last night, I sipped two different Trappist beers - one bottle of the aforementioned "Trappist Rochefort" (which is still absolutely delicious, with a lovely smooth a rich taste), and the other, a bottle of "La Trappe - Triple", which was subtle and smooth.

In the British Isles, there has been a most welcome revolution in micro-brewery activity and production over the past few years; from some of the posts made here recently, it seems that this trend has also made a welcome appearance in the US, also; excellent.

 

[rhett7660]

Fortunately in this day of brewing enlightenment, not all "micro brews" are exactly micro anymore. Sure there's breweries that are small and have a small distribution radius, but others like Rogue, Flying Dog, Dogfish Head, Troegs, Stone, Oscar Blues, and more are available throughout half the country if not all of the country. I can pick up a 6 pack of 8% Belgian IPA at 7-11 in the cooler right next to a case of Miller High Life. 10 years ago Sam Adams would have been the best option I had available. I can go to the grocery store right down from my house and have a selection of probably 10-15 different brands that were once considered micro or rare crafts that I would have had to drive to an out of state Liquor store (WV's beer laws used to limit ABV to 6% up until 2-3 years ago) just to see. It's just not the same as it used to be and that's a good thing.

Not to mention the concentration of home brewers. Even in a smaller town I live in we have a fair amount.

I completely agree. I like that though! Heck my little liquor store carries around thirty different beers along with the usual suspects, ala bud, coors, and miller etc.

You are right, I remember when Sam Adams was the stuff dreams were made of when it come to beer outside the norm of the big three!

----------

Mc Chouffe is one of my personal favourites. It was first brewed in 1987 8% it has the spices coriander and wild garel (Bog Myrtle).

It has in the last few years really become a main stay of the special beer market here in the low countries.
If things go as planned MC Chouffe will more than likely make the trip across the big water.

I am very happy to be of help.

One can dream and hopefully I am able to try it out! We did get the christmas special brew at our local BJ's Pizza. But it sold out rather quick and it was a one time deal. They never got a restock of the stuff. I missed it of course. I felt like a kid ON christmas day who got a lump of coal after seeing it on the menu only to be told they were out!

5 monks is another one, bourbon barrel aged quad. Came in at 19.5%.

On the topic of ABV, most of what I drink is 9%+.

I have yet to see Avery's 5 Monks! I would try it though. I love me some bourbon barrel aged beer! Stone makes a really good one and I was able to try it on cask to boot! That was a fun night!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I could not agree more one of the truly great beers.

Do you have a direct line to my local supermarket,
No sooner a tip from you and they have it on the shelves.
Image

They also have broaden their range with a Triple IPA, and Golden Triple.

Apart from the Carolus, (which is excellent), tonight, for the very first time, I had the opportunity to sample the Florette Tripel, which is also pictured in your post. Quite excellent, I must say….

 

[Happybunny]

Apart from the Carolus, (which is excellent), tonight, for the very first time, I had the opportunity to sample the Florette Tripel, which is also pictured in your post. Quite excellent, I must say….

Thanks for the heads up, I've not had a chance to taste mine yet.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Thanks for the heads up, I've not had a chance to taste mine yet.

I have made a mental (and a physical) note of the Trappist beers you posted earlier. While - these days it is possible to obtain quite a few (but not all, alas) of them in my corner of western Europe (a miracle to anyone who remember s the barren 80s and 90s in those parts), are there any others that would you recommend?

 

[Happybunny]

I have made a mental (and a physical) note of the Trappist beers you posted earlier. While - these days it is possible to obtain quite a few (but not all, alas) of them in my corner of western Europe (a miracle to anyone who remember s the barren 80s and 90s in those parts), are there any others that would you recommend?

Hi my personal preference is different for a beer which I would recommend for daytime in the summer, and a beer which I would recommend for the long winter evenings. I would also like to point out that I personally don’t like sweet tasting beers, so no fruit or chocolate tastes here.

The Zatte Netherlands 8% good clean taste. Ideal for a summers day.
The Val-Dieu Triple Belgium 8%, it has a taste that is both mellow and satisfying,.
The La Chouffe Belgium 8% this is a wonderful all round great tasting beer, it’s a blonde beer. This is a beer you could give to just about any drinker, and they would appreciate the flavour.

The Columbus Netherlands 9% Amber in colour, full taste
The Mc Chouffe Belgium Dark Amber colour with a very fine mix of spices, it’s a wonderful beer to have at meals. (fantastic with BarBQ’s and Cheese Tables)

The Straffe Hendrik Belgium 11%, a classic dark red beer, smooth tasting.
The Kastel Belgium 11%, a classic dark beer, it has a very full flavour.
The Gulden Draak Belgium 10.5% dark beer it has a hint of spices.

There is one beer that I can also recommend but is not in photo because at the moment I am also out of stock.

http://www.bierpassie.com/beericon/325/medium/1374576685.jpg

The Brigand Belgium 9% Dark Blonde, full tast with just the hint of nuts.

I do hope that I have been of some help. But please remember taste is a very personal thing.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Image

Hi my personal preference is different for a beer which I would recommend for daytime in the summer, and a beer which I would recommend for the long winter evenings. I would also like to point out that I personally don’t like sweet tasting beers, so no fruit or chocolate tastes here.

The Zatte Netherlands 8% good clean taste. Ideal for a summers day.
The Val-Dieu Triple Belgium 8%, it has a taste that is both mellow and satisfying,.
The La Chouffe Belgium 8% this is a wonderful all round great tasting beer, it’s a blonde beer. This is a beer you could give to just about any drinker, and they would appreciate the flavour.

The Columbus Netherlands 9% Amber in colour, full taste
The Mc Chouffe Belgium Dark Amber colour with a very fine mix of spices, it’s a wonderful beer to have at meals. (fantastic with BarBQ’s and Cheese Tables)

The Straffe Hendrik Belgium 11%, a classic dark red beer, smooth tasting.
The Kastel Belgium 11%, a classic dark beer, it has a very full flavour.
The Gulden Draak Belgium 10.5% dark beer it has a hint of spices.

There is one beer that I can also recommend but is not in photo because at the moment I am also out of stock.

http://www.bierpassie.com/beericon/325/medium/1374576685.jpg

The Brigand Belgium 9% Dark Blonde, full tast with just the hint of nuts.

I do hope that I have been of some help. But please remember taste is a very personal thing.

Thank you very much for a courteous, informative and interesting post, which are qualities that distinguish your posts and which I hugely appreciate.

I agree with you that winter and summer preferences are different. While I like port in winter, I prefer a much lighter style of sweet wine in summer; for dry wines, again, I much prefer a robust, and rich (say Ripasso, or some of the really good Spanish wines - for example, 'Eternum Vita' or 'Los Comillos' ) style wine for winter, while opting for something lighter in summer. So, it is of course, no surprise that my beer preferences change with the seasons, too.

I'll make a note of the beers on your list, and also, make a point of sampling as many of them as I can lay hands on. Having said that, I have seen a number of them in some of the specialist stores, licences to sell such delights.

An aside: I met with an former student of mine, now an analyst with the employers' body, for a few beers yesterday in a charming pub that has only recently opened. We drank two glasses each of a lovely Belgian brew called Affligem. Very complex, rich and satisfying……...

 

[macmacguy]

I really love Xeres wine. It's special.

 

[mobilehaathi]

I'm quite happy with this one. I have to admit I tend to like the Rogue beers.

 

[D.T.]

The liquor store near my folks had an _amazing_ selection, I took a couple of quick photos - they’re not really framed and they’re blurry, but I think it gets the point across

This is just from one aisle, there was the other sides, and several doors of coolers full.

 

[Happybunny]

The liquor store near my folks had an _amazing_ selection, I took a couple of quick photos - they’re not really framed and they’re blurry, but I think it gets the point across

This is just from one aisle, there was the other sides, and several doors of coolers full.

That photo shows just how far American Beer drinking tastes have matured, when I was living in the US 1981-1983 the only foreign beers were Canadian or Mexican.

I see among the Belgium selection a few of my personal favourites, these tend to be the Dark full tasting brews : Gulden Draak Alt, Gulden Draak 9000, Kasteel 11, St Berrnardus Abt 12.

 

[Happybunny]

Thank you very much for a courteous, informative and interesting post, which are qualities that distinguish your posts and which I hugely appreciate.

I agree with you that winter and summer preferences are different. While I like port in winter, I prefer a much lighter style of sweet wine in summer; for dry wines, again, I much prefer a robust, and rich (say Ripasso, or some of the really good Spanish wines - for example, 'Eternum Vita' or 'Los Comillos' ) style wine for winter, while opting for something lighter in summer. So, it is of course, no surprise that my beer preferences change with the seasons, too.

I'll make a note of the beers on your list, and also, make a point of sampling as many of them as I can lay hands on. Having said that, I have seen a number of them in some of the specialist stores, licences to sell such delights.

An aside: I met with an former student of mine, now an analyst with the employers' body, for a few beers yesterday in a charming pub that has only recently opened. We drank two glasses each of a lovely Belgian brew called Affligem. Very complex, rich and satisfying……...

I noticed that you mentioned Affligem Beers, if I might be so bold to recommend this beer. It’s from the same brewery,it’s a Double it’s a Blonde beer at 6,8%. It has a very clean smooth taste, I personally find it a great beer for summers evenings.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I noticed that you mentioned Affligem Beers, if I might be so bold to recommend this beer. It’s from the same brewery,it’s a Double it’s a Blonde beer at 6,8%. It has a very clean smooth taste, I personally find it a great beer for summers evenings.

Image

Actually, I had it a week ago in a newly opened pub in an 18th century building when meeting a former student of mine - we each had two and I agree, this was delicious, and had a lovely smooth, yet rich, taste. I shall most certainly look out further for it.

And thank you for your other recommendations; I shall take note of them.

 

[D.T.]

That photo shows just how far American Beer drinking tastes have matured, when I was living in the US 1981-1983 the only foreign beers were Canadian or Mexican.

I see among the Belgium selection a few of my personal favourites, these tend to be the Dark full tasting brews : Gulden Draak Alt, Gulden Draak 9000, Kasteel 11, St Berrnardus Abt 12.

Without a doubt!

My friends and I were always into imports, even from the early 80s, and back then, there was like 3-4 options. If you showed up to a party with Guinness or Bass it was like you were from another planet

Then there was a long period where good = import, before the micro explosion here in the US. Funny enough, some places still use “import” to indicate good/micros, even if they’re not technically imported (unless Colorado, California and Oregon [etc] recently seceded from the States ) Now there are domestics I’d put up against just about any product across the globe.

Also, thanks for the recommendation, I was hoping someone would pick out a few beers from the photos (I felt like a goober, so I took them semi-covert, which is why the photos are a little janky...)

Anyway, here are some selections from the trip.

Anchor BigLeaf Maple Autumn Red
Innis & Gunn Toasted Oak IPA
October/Fall/Pumpkin beer of the gods: Weyerbacher Imperial Pumpkin Ale!
Terrapin Chocolate Peanut Butter Porter
Left Hand ‘Wake up Dead’ Nitro Stout

That last one is 10.20% ABV - wake up dead indeed ...

 

[Happybunny]

Without a doubt!

My friends and I were always into imports, even from the early 80s, and back then, there was like 3-4 options. If you showed up to a party with Guinness or Bass it was like you were from another planet

Then there was a long period where good = import, before the micro explosion here in the US. Funny enough, some places still use “import” to indicate good/micros, even if they’re not technically imported (unless Colorado, California and Oregon [etc] recently seceded from the States ) Now there are domestics I’d put up against just about any product across the globe.

Also, thanks for the recommendation, I was hoping someone would pick out a few beers from the photos (I felt like a goober, so I took them semi-covert, which is why the photos are a little janky...)

Anyway, here are some selections from the trip.

Anchor BigLeaf Maple Autumn Red
Innis & Gunn Toasted Oak IPA
October/Fall/Pumpkin beer of the gods: Weyerbacher Imperial Pumpkin Ale!
Terrapin Chocolate Peanut Butter Porter
Left Hand ‘Wake up Dead’ Nitro Stout

That last one is 10.20% ABV - wake up dead indeed ...

I could not agree more, just twenty five years ago to have US breweries at Belgium Beer festivals would have been unthinkable. But today it’s just as unthinkable for them not to be there and in great demand. Plus they regularly walk away with the accolade best of show.

Since the US invasion of the beer market (The only type of US invasion I fully SUPPORT )
I have developed a taste for IPA’s. I also got my first taste of Russian Imperial Stout via US Breweries.

Dogfish Head 60 Minutes
Sierra Nevada Torpedo
Bear Republic Racer 5
Stone Imperial Russian Stout
Founders Imperial Stout.

 

[D.T.]

I could not agree more, just twenty five years ago to have US breweries at Belgium Beer festivals would have been unthinkable. But today it’s just as unthinkable for them not to be there and in great demand. Plus they regularly walk away with the accolade best of show.

Since the US invasion of the beer market (The only type of US invasion I fully SUPPORT )
I have developed a taste for IPA’s. I also got my first taste of Russian Imperial Stout via US Breweries.

Dogfish Head 60 Minutes
Sierra Nevada Torpedo
Bear Republic Racer 5
Stone Imperial Russian Stout
Founders Imperial Stout.

I agree, it’s pretty amazing. I hope nobody takes my comment as some kind of competitive posturing, but just an observation of how the origin of a beer isn’t an indicator of the quality any longer!

Good beer is everywhere now. We’ve got a chain of delicious “boutique” pizza restaurants called Mellow Mushroom - cool vibe, very “green”, fresh, organic ingredients, and the local one has like 40 beers on tap. Even here on the north east coast of Florida, we’ve got 4 micros within ~15 miles.

The bolded brews I’ve had, all very delicious.

I’ll have to report back after we’ve had a chance to drink these. If you were closer, I’d say come over for a sampling

 

[rhett7660]

I could not agree more, just twenty five years ago to have US breweries at Belgium Beer festivals would have been unthinkable. But today it’s just as unthinkable for them not to be there and in great demand. Plus they regularly walk away with the accolade best of show.

Since the US invasion of the beer market (The only type of US invasion I fully SUPPORT )
I have developed a taste for IPA’s. I also got my first taste of Russian Imperial Stout via US Breweries.

Dogfish Head 60 Minutes
Sierra Nevada Torpedo
Bear Republic Racer 5
Stone Imperial Russian Stout
Founders Imperial Stout.

Stone Brewery is by far my favorite brewery. I love their stouts. If you can find the one that has coffee in it. It is a something special IMHO.

I like DFH beers a lot too. I have had the 90minute on tap at my local restaurant. I am waiting for the 120 minute IPA to drop on tap. Love me some good over the top IPA's!!

I agree, it’s pretty amazing. I hope nobody takes my comment as some kind of competitive posturing, but just an observation of how the origin of a beer isn’t an indicator of the quality any longer!

Good beer is everywhere now. We’ve got a chain of delicious “boutique” pizza restaurants called Mellow Mushroom - cool vibe, very “green”, fresh, organic ingredients, and the local one has like 40 beers on tap. Even here on the north east coast of Florida, we’ve got 4 micros within ~15 miles.

The bolded brews I’ve had, all very delicious.

I’ll have to report back after we’ve had a chance to drink these. If you were closer, I’d say come over for a sampling

Mellow Mushroom rocks, there is one in Columbus Georgia. Every time I visit my brother we go! They usually have a really good beer selection!

 

[mobilehaathi]

Without a doubt!

My friends and I were always into imports, even from the early 80s, and back then, there was like 3-4 options. If you showed up to a party with Guinness or Bass it was like you were from another planet

Then there was a long period where good = import, before the micro explosion here in the US. Funny enough, some places still use “import” to indicate good/micros, even if they’re not technically imported (unless Colorado, California and Oregon [etc] recently seceded from the States ) Now there are domestics I’d put up against just about any product across the globe.

Also, thanks for the recommendation, I was hoping someone would pick out a few beers from the photos (I felt like a goober, so I took them semi-covert, which is why the photos are a little janky...)

Anyway, here are some selections from the trip.

Anchor BigLeaf Maple Autumn Red
Innis & Gunn Toasted Oak IPA
October/Fall/Pumpkin beer of the gods: Weyerbacher Imperial Pumpkin Ale!
Terrapin Chocolate Peanut Butter Porter
Left Hand ‘Wake up Dead’ Nitro Stout

That last one is 10.20% ABV - wake up dead indeed ...

I haven't had that one, but I really enjoy Left Hand. For some reason (byzantine alcohol distribution network...) I can't get any in my neck of the woods (northern California). Do you get any Bell's or Jolly Pumpkin? Bell's Two Hearted Ale is a great IPA, and Jolly Pumpkin's Oro de Calabaza is a personal favorite.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Image

Hi my personal preference is different for a beer which I would recommend for daytime in the summer, and a beer which I would recommend for the long winter evenings. I would also like to point out that I personally don’t like sweet tasting beers, so no fruit or chocolate tastes here.

The Zatte Netherlands 8% good clean taste. Ideal for a summers day.
The Val-Dieu Triple Belgium 8%, it has a taste that is both mellow and satisfying,.
The La Chouffe Belgium 8% this is a wonderful all round great tasting beer, it’s a blonde beer. This is a beer you could give to just about any drinker, and they would appreciate the flavour.

The Columbus Netherlands 9% Amber in colour, full taste
The Mc Chouffe Belgium Dark Amber colour with a very fine mix of spices, it’s a wonderful beer to have at meals. (fantastic with BarBQ’s and Cheese Tables)

The Straffe Hendrik Belgium 11%, a classic dark red beer, smooth tasting.
The Kastel Belgium 11%, a classic dark beer, it has a very full flavour.
The Gulden Draak Belgium 10.5% dark beer it has a hint of spices.

There is one beer that I can also recommend but is not in photo because at the moment I am also out of stock.

http://www.bierpassie.com/beericon/325/medium/1374576685.jpg

The Brigand Belgium 9% Dark Blonde, full tast with just the hint of nuts.

I do hope that I have been of some help. But please remember taste is a very personal thing.

A wonderful and informative post, for which I must thank you again.

As of this evening, I have several bottles of 'Straffe Hendrik' 11% (which came exceedingly well recommended by another source in addition to your good self), along with a few bottles of Gulden Draak (which I am also keen to sample, and what a wonderful bottle!).

Completeing the selection which was bought today are two from St Bernardus 'Abbey Ale' range, this time the 'St Bernardus 12' which I have not yet had a chance to try out, either.

 

[D.T.]

Mellow Mushroom rocks, there is one in Columbus Georgia. Every time I visit my brother we go! They usually have a really good beer selection!

The one here and in Fleming (100 yards away from the ABC mentioned above) both have a huge selection, I’ve also been to one in Atlanta (near Duluth), don’t remember the beer section since we were just blowing through for takeout.

Yeah, we really like them. I mean, if we’re in the mood for a NYC style, “regular” pie, we’ll hit up the local Antonio’s, but for something a little different, and/or sandwiches, soups, they’re hard to beat if you’re a beer drinker. Their mixed drinks are outstanding too, some really creative options. I also dig on them doing up each location uniquely, and having a special menu section for each location.

I haven't had that one, but I really enjoy Left Hand. For some reason (byzantine alcohol distribution network...) I can't get any in my neck of the woods (northern California). Do you get any Bell's or Jolly Pumpkin? Bell's Two Hearted Ale is a great IPA, and Jolly Pumpkin's Oro de Calabaza is a personal favorite.

Left Hand is becoming a fave on mine - I posted a page or so back about the Left Hand milk stout I scored, wow, that was a solid 9/10. Definitely get Bell’s, in fact, when we were just at Mellow Mushroom (this past Friday), the wife got the Bell’s Oberon (kind of smooth and buttery with a nice hint of orange, some very light peppery notes) . I had the beer in the photo below, the fantastic Oscar’s Old Chub Nitro.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The one here and in Fleming (100 yards away from the ABC mentioned above) both have a huge selection, I’ve also been to one in Atlanta (near Duluth), don’t remember the beer section since we were just blowing through for takeout.

Yeah, we really like them. I mean, if we’re in the mood for a NYC style, “regular” pie, we’ll hit up the local Antonio’s, but for something a little different, and/or sandwiches, soups, they’re hard to beat if you’re a beer drinker. Their mixed drinks are outstanding too, some really creative options. I also dig on them doing up each location uniquely, and having a special menu section for each location.



Left Hand is becoming a fave on mine - I posted a page or so back about the Left Hand milk stout I scored, wow, that was a solid 9/10. Definitely get Bell’s, in fact, when we were just at Mellow Mushroom (this past Friday), the wife got the Bell’s Oberon (kind of smooth and buttery with a nice hint of orange, some very light peppery notes) . I had the beer in the photo below, the fantastic Oscar’s Old Chub Nitro.

As I'm not from the States (and the US used to produce truly dreadful stuff masquerading as beer), I'm not familiar with any of the brands you posted earlier, except for the Innis & Gunn range.

They are an extremely good Scottish company, (and actually do very well in both Canada and the US) and produce some terrific beers. Indeed, I would consider myself a big fan of their beers.

If the other beers you mentioned can be considered the equal of Innis & Gunn, then I am certainly open to the idea of sampling them. Moreover, I am delighted to learn that microbreweries of quality are now increasingly a feature of life in many parts of the US; this is very good news indeed.

 

[mobilehaathi]

Left Hand is becoming a fave on mine - I posted a page or so back about the Left Hand milk stout I scored, wow, that was a solid 9/10. Definitely get Bell’s, in fact, when we were just at Mellow Mushroom (this past Friday), the wife got the Bell’s Oberon (kind of smooth and buttery with a nice hint of orange, some very light peppery notes) . I had the beer in the photo below, the fantastic Oscar’s Old Chub Nitro.

Oh, Oberon! I miss it dearly! I lived in Michigan for many years, and in the summertime it was on tap nearly everywhere. It was my go-to beer if I didn't want to make a decision (and often even when I did). Alas, Bells is not distributed in California.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Happybunny: I can now state with utter confidence that the 'Straffe Hendrik 11%' is quite outstanding (having consumed two of them - with considerable enjoyment and much pleasure).

Thank you for drawing my attention to this delightful beverage: I shall resume this charming acquaintance further in the future. But, for now, my conclusion is that this is quite excellent…..