Yosemite & Privacy?

[wiredup72]

Only found one thread about these issues and that was from Oct 20.

http://lifehacker.com/lets-talk-abo...tm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=mondayAM

What's up people? Anyone else bothered by this?

 

[X-X]

Anyone else bothered by this?

Yes.

But that's the direction Apple is headed, at least we can turn it off.

 

[Partron22]

Started up Facetime just to log out and disable (Yosemite logged me in automatically at install)
Started up Messages just to log out (Yosemite logged me in automatically at install)
Calendar agent was trying desperately to sync: Went to Calender app and disabled the account, set to refresh manually. This seemed to fix. If it happens again, look into : calendaragent process.
Dissallow auto Cloud login at startup.

 

[wiredup72]

Yes.

But that's the direction Apple is headed, at least we can turn it off.

I am also grateful we can turn it off. I would prefer to have to turn this crud on.

That is what I don't get. Why is the OSX community accepting the direction Apple is headed. Why don't more people share their grievances or complaints, or am I just too old now (42) and the youngs just don't care.

 

[bbfc]

I am also grateful we can turn it off. I would prefer to have to turn this crud on.

That is what I don't get. Why is the OSX community accepting the direction Apple is headed. Why don't more people share their grievances or complaints, or am I just too old now (42) and the youngs just don't care.

I honestly don't care.

 

[wiredup72]

I honestly don't care.

Is it irony that you probably care more about your post appearing aloof and ironic, as opposed to informed but careless? yay knowledge!

 

[simonsi]

I would rather use the features that require this behaviour, I suspect most users are the same, having to enable all the undercover, less-than-obvious bits and pieces to get a prime function working would be very unsatisfactory for most users.

 

[Partron22]

Wouldn't be hard for Apple to write a script that sets things one way or the other, all from a single location. Users could pick yes, no, or pick and choose, all from a central location instead of this undocumented, piecemeal, heard it from a guy at the crossroads at midnight sort of setup they've given us now.

 

[simonsi]

I wonder if docs on a Mac still save in the iCloud if there are no Handoff-enabled iDevices for it?

Edit to add, just tested anyway and yes, textedit does save to iCloud even when unsaved locally and no Handoff capability.

TBH I still wonder why, if the data goes via iCloud, why is there a BT dependency for Handoff in the first place....?

 

[sharon22]

I honestly don't care.

And, I honestly care.

Little, by little, by little (like the frog being boiled, so slowly, the frog doesn't...even...notice...it's...dying).

I just recently had to make myself apologize to a nice person that suggested I avail myself of one of the Cloud services because I'm so concerned about data loss. I used their kind and thoughtful suggestion to launch into a rant about "The Cloud."

To me, "The Cloud," is a way for the Illuminati (haha just kidding, I had to say that), the "Cloud" is a way to slowly but surely get "our personal data" out of our personal computers, "up" and "out" into the open, into the public, under the 'guise' of "Oh, not to worry, it's all encrypted."

Frankly, I have nothing to hide -- I leave my computer on all day, my family can come and go and click away and look, no biggy, but that being said, I DO CARE when my search terms go into outer space for all the public to see.

I don't mind that Google knows I'm searching for "Tricks for Cleaner Socks," etc., because that's OBVIOUS that Google has to know about me, if I'm gonna be using them to search for something.

It's like having a BUTLER! My BUTLER is going to know I have dandruff when I ask him to pick me up some anti-dandruff shampoo. Big deal!

BUT.... when I find out, AFTER THE FACT, that when I did a search of MY OWN PRIVATE PERSONAL COMPUTER for the beneficiary's name on my will, that Apple now knows who the beneficiary is, well that f**n p*s*es me off to no end!

I've disabled spotlight PERMANENTLY. I use the MUCH MORE USER FRIENDLY app called, "Find Any File" it operates like the old OS9 "Find File" utility, and the results make SENSE. They're not a pile of st**ht like Spotlight produces. And, yes, I am NOT able to search my email without Spotlight. Oh well, boo hoo.

If any moderator thinks my post is out of line, or not necessary, or useless, please go ahead and delete it, no harm no foul, I'm not vested in my post here, nor is it ego driven, so if it's outta place (i.e. doesn't belong here), just delete it, and I won't make such a post again.

Further, I'm open minded, and if I've said anything that requires correction, please correct me. I'm by no means perfect, in fact, I'm one of the most imperfect people on this board, so by all means tell me what I need to change or fix or learn about. Thank you for your time.

 

[simonsi]

And, I honestly care.....Thank you for your time.

But you have the choice, you can disable what you don't like and use an App that has behaviour that you want.

Its not like Apple locks it down and forces you to use Spotlight with its behaviour you don't like....

Whichever behaviour Apple chooses as default, some users will dislike it, the vast majority will go with what Apple leaves as the default. Thats called personal responsibility.

 

[sharon22]

...Thats called personal responsibility.

Yep, I agree. What irked me most, though, is that when I happily installed Yosemite, I had NO IDEA that what I was privately searching for on my own computer (e.g. password clue to my bank account) was being sent to Apple.

If my Utility company installs a hidden microphone in my Utility Meter, you can't argue at me, "Hey, you can choose to remove the microphone! Take some personal responsibility why dontchya!"

What's next, I find out my Facetime Camera has been on all this time?

You go on the Apple Help Forum.... there's this guy on there with a bazillion posts next to his name (giving him unworldly 'cred') and he totally ripped into what a useless program "Little Snitch" is, like it's dangerous or something.

INSTALL LITTLE SNITCH! It's free, and you get to KNOW what info is sent outbound!

Um, that being said, I actually uninstalled Little Snitch. I'm like, "okay whatever." Of course I now draw the line at SENDING APPLE all my private search terms over Spotlight.

 

[simonsi]

The search terms are made anonymous and the transient ID used is cycled every 15mins so that is like your power company installing a mic but having no clue whose mic they are getting data from, odd comparison but....

The "About" statement in Spotlight Prefs also contains advice to turn off two options, Bing and Spotlight Suggestions to cause Spotlight to search only your Mac....

 

[bbfc]

Is it irony that you probably care more about your post appearing aloof and ironic, as opposed to informed but careless? yay knowledge!

You asked why more people don't speak up about this, and my response is that it doesn't bother me. Honestly, I have nothing to hide so I don't worry about anything. Life's too short.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[X-X]

I have nothing to hide

#facepalm

 

[KALLT]

Even if you don’t care, is it too much to ask to support those who do care?

I like to think that it’s no one’s business to know what I am doing on my computer. Personally, I don’t see the benefit of transmitting any information through Spotlight. All I want is a powerful local search. At least Apple is providing an opt-out and an explanation, but I’d prefer if they would just offer an opt-in at the first launch of Spotlight with a brief explanation of what it does. It’s not a big thing, but it shows the utmost respect for your users.

 

[simonsi]

Even if you don’t care, is it too much to ask to support those who do care?

There is no point in any debate if we are all expected to agree with the OP even if we hold different views.

I do care, but I believe enough control and information has been made available to let users make an informed decision and take the necessary actions to control Spotlight's behaviour.

I also believe for instance that the care Apple has taken with the information sent outside my Mac by Spotlight exceeds the care with which Google (for example), use and treat similar information provided (as required), for the task of searching.

 

[KALLT]

There is no point in any debate if we are all expected to agree with the OP even if we hold different views.

Who says that we need to have a debate at all? The OP’s question was whether anyone was personally bothered with it, which is not the same as not caring for the issues of others.

I do care, but I believe enough control and information has been made available to let users make an informed decision and take the necessary actions to control Spotlight's behaviour.

I also believe for instance that the care Apple has taken with the information sent outside my Mac by Spotlight exceeds the care with which Google (for example), use and treat similar information provided (as required), for the task of searching.

Making an informed decision is not even possible prior to using the services, as they are opt-out. It is possible to use Spotlight without ever realising that your queries and location and transmitted once a few characters have been entered. I have tested this myself, you won’t get any notice in countries where Spotlight Suggestions are not available, but Apple still transmits the data in the process. That is not sufficient even if it is not as bad as Google would do.

 

[Phil A.]

Apple has a pretty good page here: http://www.apple.com/privacy/privacy-built-in/ explaining what gets sent where and why.

I'm not saying Apple are perfect, but they do seem to take privacy seriously

 

[simonsi]

...which is not the same as not caring for the issues of others.

This is a forum, do you not expect debate? Who said "don't care" in that context, the only "don't care" post from any poster I can see in this thread I read as they didn't care about the privacy issue, not the feelings of the previous poster.

...you won’t get any notice in countries where Spotlight Suggestions are not available, but Apple still transmits the data in the process. That is not sufficient even if it is not as bad as Google would do.

But you can't know there are no results (suggestions), without transmitting the search query. Location is only to City level so hardly Eagle Eye levels of surveillance - it is primarily just enough to be useful in refining searches to local results where useful to do so...and it is all made anonymous and sent over https...

There are also two ways to access Spotlight privacy, both via Spotlight Prefs and via Preferences/Security and Privacy.

Lets face it, most of the population are, rightly or wrongly, more concerned about the usefulness of the feature than they are about any privacy issues. For those that are more concerned about privacy, I think there is enough guidance to tell you what and how to disable it.

 

[KALLT]

Apple has a pretty good page here: http://www.apple.com/privacy/privacy-built-in/ explaining what gets sent where and why.

I'm not saying Apple are perfect, but they do seem to take privacy seriously

That page is only a starting point at best. It doesn’t give any information about the following:

• What data is transmitted? They speak about ‘things like context and location’, but what does that all entail?
• They claim to use an ‘anonymous identifier’ which is reset every 15 minutes, but does that ensure that the identity of the user cannot be determined in any way? Depending on the pieces of data collected, one can still assemble a profile even without a specific identifier.
• They place restrictions upon ‘their partners’. Who are they and what are these restrictions? How does Apple ensure that these restrictions are not circumvented?

As far as I am concerned, privacy is only in part about having a good privacy policy. The other part is about giving users enough information to make an informed decision prior to data collection, preferably with an option to opt in or out.

 

[simonsi]

That page is only a starting point at best. It doesn’t give any information about the following:

• What data is transmitted? They speak about ‘things like context and location’, but what does that all entail?
• They claim to use an ‘anonymous identifier’ which is reset every 15 minutes, but does that ensure that the identity of the user cannot be determined in any way? Depending on the pieces of data collected, one can still assemble a profile even without a specific identifier.
• They place restrictions upon ‘their partners’. Who are they and what are these restrictions? How does Apple ensure that these restrictions are not circumvented?

As far as I am concerned, privacy is only in part about having a good privacy policy. The other part is about giving users enough information to make an informed decision prior to data collection, preferably with an option to opt in or out.

Of course they can be traced to you, if you ever want your bit of the internet to work you will need an ip address which can be tracked - which is why they state on that page that Apple don't use that to profile, nor do they allow their partners to do so (for which I would assume any party they supply the data to).

Could hypothetically such data be mis-used? Yes. Would it be worth doing so for the average users search data, given it would break the terms of the Apple Partner eco-system as outlined in that policy? No.

It would be nice to think you could opt-out of everything that could possibly be used to trace back to you, but you would find your internet won't work very well...

 

[KALLT]

This is a forum, do you not expect debate? Who said "don't care" in that context, the only "don't care" post from any poster I can see in this thread I read as they didn't care about the privacy issue, not the feelings of the previous poster.

I’m not saying that anyone should care about other people’s feelings, but at least recognise the privacy issues that matter to others even if you don’t care about them yourself.

But you can't know there are no results (suggestions), without transmitting the search query. Location is only to City level so hardly Eagle Eye levels of surveillance - it is primarily just enough to be useful in refining searches to local results where useful to do so...and it is all made anonymous and sent over https...

There are also two ways to access Spotlight privacy, both via Spotlight Prefs and via Preferences/Security and Privacy.

Lets face it, most of the population are, rightly or wrongly, more concerned about the usefulness of the feature than they are about any privacy issues. For those that are more concerned about privacy, I think there is enough guidance to tell you what and how to disable it.

In some countries, including my own, Spotlight doesn’t give any localised or vertical search results. It’s disabled. It still transmits the data and location, however. Why does it do that? Location isn’t only to city level, Apple explained that it used a technique it called ‘blurring’ to make the location data less exact. But within cities, it is a lot more accurate than just ‘city level’. As I said above, not using a unique identifier is not necessarily the same as being anonymous. Depending on the data collected, identification may still be possible.

That you can turn it off is a good thing, but I’m arguing that Apple should have included an information panel when Spotlight is first started and give users an option to opt in or out before even making their first search.

Of course they can be traced to you, if you ever want your bit of the internet to work you will need an ip address which can be tracked - which is why they state on that page that Apple don't use that to profile, nor do they allow their partners to do so (for which I would assume any party they supply the data to).

Could hypothetically such data be mis-used? Yes. Would it be worth doing so for the average users search data, given it would break the terms of the Apple Partner eco-system as outlined in that policy? No.

It would be nice to think you could opt-out of everything that could possibly be used to trace back to you, but you would find your internet won't work very well...

You clearly avoid the issue I’m talking about. The point still is, Apple enabled Spotlight Suggestions by default and it doesn’t give a heads up in countries where these services are not even enabled. It still collects some data in that process for no apparent reason. Preventing unnecessary data collection is always the better option than relying on some company’s privacy policy and PR what they do with the data collected.

 

[simonsi]

Apple enabled Spotlight Suggestions by default and it doesn’t give a heads up in countries where these services are not even enabled.

But my point is the Apple servers don't know which country you are in without the initial location info.

Read the OP's question: "Anyone else bothered by this?" "No" is just as valid an answer as "Yes" and anything in between.....

No problem with an info panel as you have just suggested, have you provided that suggestion on the Apple feedback page? Better there than here I suspect...

 

[Zxxv]

Its opt out because users are more likely to not, due to it being a hassle. Its well known by data collectors etc that opt out works better than opt in. Thats why apple is using it.

Or a smoother user experience?

pick one