My PowerMac G5 - 2 MONTHS IN HELL

[seelab]

Hi everybody,

Here is my story:

January 1st 2005

10/20/04
I order a Power Mac G5 Dual 2GHz on the Apple store
ATI Radeon 9600 XT w/128MB DDR SDRAM
Bluetooth Module + Apple Wireless Keyboard & Mouse
Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)
iSight
Chosen shipping method is Expedited Shipping (Canada)
Total: 7.481 CAD

10/29/04
"Due to an unexpected delay in manufacturing, we were unable to ship your Power Mac G5 by the date that you were originally quoted"

11/02/04
FedEx delivers my PowerMac G5 at 10:49 AM., 13 days after my order was placed on Apple Store Online.
I'm glad i paid 85 CAN Dollars for EXPEDITED SHIPPING.

I open the box. The nightmare begins here.
The computer boots fine the first time. I did the registration, configured Mail, MacosX updates, etc ...
Reboot.
My brand new PowerMac didn't boot that second time.
When I switch the power on, I hear the fans going, but there is no chime and the hard drive is silent. After about 5 mins the fans start going nuts as if the whole machine is about to take off. No power to the monitor or keyboard.

I call Apple care technicians. Like every customer service i've experienced, it's a very long process before having someone actually taking care of your problem.
After 5 days and a lot of calls, they offered 2 solutions: "Take your G5 to the nearest Apple dealer" or "we can start a Dead On Arrival procedure". The guy tells me it's a long procedure, can take up to 3 weeks before i get a replacement. He was not even sure my problem could be considered DOA...

Ok, i want this problem to be fixed as soon as possible. I'll go to a store 2 blocks away. I don't have a car so i took this heavy G5 with me to the store. The technician at the store confirms i shouldn't try the DOA procedure because they can fix my G5 faster here. After having described the problem, the manager told me if the fans are working, your product can not qualify for a DOA procedure.
Ok, i 'll fix the G5 here then.
The technician take my phone number. They will call me back within 5 days to give me the diagnostic.

5 days later, no call from the technician. I go to the store. He ordered a new logic board because it seems to be a logic board failure. "We'll call you back", he tells me.

2 weeks later, not a single call. I call and leave a message because he's not available.

11/18/04
He calls me back. The new logic board hasn't fixed the problem. He thinks it's the power supply so he ordered one and he will call me back.

12/03/04
I go to the store. My PowerMac G5 is supposed to be fixed. There is a huge scratch on one of the aluminium handle.
The technician seems surprised when i bring this to his attention. He calls the manager. 15 minutes later after 2 calls from the technician, the manager finally appears. He sees the scratch on the G5's case "ouch, it's a big scratch !. Ok, we can give you a 50 dollars coupon in our store or we can order a new case and replace it at no cost".
I accepted the case replacement. "We 'll call you back when the case is here but it can take up to 3 weeks".
I leave the store.
At home, i boot the G5. The fans are running at full speed and the noise is huge and constant.
I go back to the store, the technician seems surprised. "We tested your G5 here". He's not even willing to admit it's an issue but if i bring the computer back he will take a look at it".
Back home then back to the store (by foot) with the G5.
The technician configured the fans with a CD. Took an hour. He told me at the end i could have done this at home with the DVD that came with my G5. Thank you fo sharing that information. I've spent the most exciting hour of my life waiting in your store for something you should have done before delivering this machine to me.
So, he will call me back in 3 weeks for the case problem. Sure. (i've since never had a single call from the technician).

12/10/04
I've been using my PowerMac G5 for a week now. I've another issue which seems to be getting worse everyday. Some horizontal and vertical lines (made of pixels) are filling my screen entirely. First, there were only a few lines appearing a few hours after start up. But now these lines appear as soon as the start up process. They even appeared when starting on A CD like during the Apple Hardare Test. This test reveals a Video Memory - Graphic Card problem. There is an Error Code and instructions saying i should call Apple Care Technicians.

Again, a painfull experience with Apple services. Took another 3 days and a lot of calls, waiting with the background music, explaining the same story again and again (which is more and more complicated also), they take your phone number but never call back or they transfer you to someone else but either mistakenly or purposefully hung up on you so you have to call back and try again. Again, they can't help. I have to go to an Apple dealer, it's the only solution.

12/13/04
I finally talk to an Apple customer service employee who is willing to help. The Apple Customer Reps calls a technician and the 3 of us talked about the error code from the Apple hardware test and the pixels filling my screen entirely. So it must be the Graphic Card. This is a Customer Installable Part so we can ship you a new one and you send the deffective card within 10 days. If you don't, we'll charge your credit card.
Why didn't they offer me that solution sooner, i'll never know...
He is going to send me a new Graphic Card and 512 Mo RAM as a gift for the inconvenience.

[seelab]

12/20/04
One week later, i haven't received anything. I Call Apple, they give me a DHL tracking number.
I check on dhl.com with the tracking number. The package has been sent in International Express and it was in Montreal on december 14th. Delivery attempted Please Call 1-888-273-8876. I call the number but it didn't work, it's not an active number. So, i call the DHL customer service. Took 45 minutes before i could talk to someone. I explain the problem: there was a delivery attempt but I haven't received any note or phone call from DHL. He gives me a case number, ask my adress to confirm they had the good one and i got a guarantee i will receive the package tomorrow.

12/21/04
No delivery that day.
I call DHL back and i give the tracking number and the case number. "We are sorry sir but we can't help you, we don't know what happened to your package. You need to call Airborne, it's not our problem anymore".
I call Airborne. "Sorry sir but your problem can only be solved with Purolator. They have your package". I try the tracking number on Purolator website and it says exactly the same as on DHL website. The package left Apple the 13th, arrived in Montreal the 14th and a delivery attempt.

From december 21st to december 24th I called Purolator every day. Again, i waited, i talked to different people who didn't know anything about the package. They couldn't bring any new informations, when i asked to talk to a manager they just hang up on me. There was supposed to be a specific person working on my problem but this person was never here. I left some messages and they didn't call back. Trying to have another person work on my problem was impossible.

12/23/04
I call Apple back and tell them about the lost packages and my attempts with DHL, Airborne, and Purolator.
"Apple can't solve this problem with the carrier so the only thing we can do for you is to send you another package".
- Ok, are you gonna use DHL again because i have no more confidence in their services ?
"Yes, we have a contract so we can't use another one sorry."

12/24/04
Purolator calls me back: You will receive your package on December 29th. The appartement number was missing in the address.

12/29/04
Didn't get any delivery that day.
I call Apple and they give me a tracking number for the second package.
I see on Purolator's website the second package is "On vehicle for delivery" at 09:43 AM. Good news, i may finally receive this graphic card today.
Well, .... guess what. No.
After 5:00 PM, I call Purolator. They don't know where is the second package and they don't have any informations about the first package as well. They search but they do not find anything.

12/29/04
I call Apple Care technicians and tell them the carrier has lost the second package as well. They are going to call DHL and see what happens. Please call back tomorrow. If there is no other solution we will send you a third package but not with DHL (finally...).

12/30/04
I've got a delivery. 2 packages. At this moment i was thinking they had finally found the packages. Great. I noticed there was indeed the appartment number missing in the adress Apple printed on the boxes.
I open the two boxes and it's a nighmare. In each box, a single 256 Mb RAM. These two packages are indeed the gift supposed to come with the graphic card.
So i realize there are 3 packages sent the 13th by Apple and 3 other packages sent on december 23rd. 6 packages and i received two of them but not the one i really need (the graphic card).
There is a paper inside (in english) saying i have to send the defective part within 10 days or they will charge my credit card.
There is also a sticker on the box saying i may receive an invoice because the value of this package is over 20 dollars. So, i may actually have to pay for that gift from Apple.

I call Purolator. No news from the packages. They are searching...

I call Apple Customer Service and i beg him to help. I explain i've this G5 dead on my desk since i purchased it 2 months ago. I've lost countless hours with the customer services of Apple, DHL, Purolator with no results.

He calls Purolator and come back to me saying the other packages are going to be delivered today. My answer was that i've been told that kind of things many times. He then call back Purolator and the 3 of us have conference. The girl from Purolator has a different information now. The packages won't be delivered today. They don't know where they are. The Apple Customer Rep is chocked by the answers of Purolator customer's service. They are rude, unhelpful and they still have no informations.
He is going to call them back tomorow and he promises me to give me some news tomorow morning.

12/31/04
Haven't received any news from the Apple Rep of course.
At 3 P.M i call him back. He is not here so i leave a message.
He calls back one hour later.
Again he calls Purolator and we have a conference. The Apple Rep and the girl from Purolator are having an animated conversation in english... leading nowhere. No informations about the packages. The girl from Purolator says they are not even responsible because the packages are in the hands of a fourth company (so the packages have been in the hands of 4 companies between California and Quebec ...). She also admits their scanning system is far from being perfect.
I then asked the Apple Rep to take care of my problem instead of calling me to make me hear his experience with the Purolator's customer service. I've been dealing with Purolator for weeks so i know it'll lead nowhere and i will loose another 2 weeks. Purolator is closing now for a few days because of New Year's Eve.


Conclusion:

As of today, 2 months later after my purchase, i still have a dead computer with a scratch but none of these big companies are responsible. It's allways someone else.
In 2005, we have emails, internet, fax, ... lots of communication technologies but companies like Purolator and DHL who are advertising they are fast easy and reliable are unable to find a package.
I've lost many job opportunities (i didn't buy an expensive G5 to play "The Sims") I've also lost countless hours and hours on the phone.
I lost 2 months and what did I get ? Two 256 Mb of RAM. Value = 120 $.
And the problem has still not been handled seriously.

This computer is now 2 months older (which is big in technology). If Apple release PowerMac updates now, this dual 2Ghz will also be cheaper. This is very frustrating too.

Again, i'm glad i paid for EXPEDITED SHIPPING...

I know it's a long story. Thank you for reading it.

[jackieonasses]

Holy Mercy. When i read the title i figured it was an easy fix.... something that was the users fault or something Apple resolved quickley. I was very suprised. I really don't know what to say. I am sorry dude.


kyle

[Blue Velvet]

That is a bummer -- I would have sent it straight back to Apple immediately, not messed with any 3rd party's.

Would have demanded a replacement rather than a repair...

[MisterMe]

Your problem is not unique. Neither is it unique to Apple. You should have sent your machine back to Apple ASAP. What you don't want is to have it in your own custody long enough that your problem can be reasonably assumed to have been caused by you. Apple offered you the option of initiating DOA procedures which would have taken three weeks. You refused that option, choosing instead to take matters into your own hands--literally. Two months later, you still don't have a working computer. You gambled and lost--big time.

I assume that you are a young man. Hopefully, this series of incidents will serve as an education for you. The lesson is this: when you make a purchase, don't accept the product until you are certain that it is in good working order. You received delivery of a PowerMac G5. Unpacking it is not the same as accepting it as your own. Whether it is a computer, automobile, house, TV set, home appliance, or whatever--if it doesn't work, get it back into the hands of the vendor ASAP.

I am truly sorry to hear that your computer doesn't work. I hope that it is fixed or replaced soon.

[EJBasile]

OMG- they wouldn't just give you a new computer at the store? My friend bought an iMac G5 had a few small problems with the AP, talked to Apple Care for a couple hours, and after a few days after the purchase got a new iMac G5.

I would try to get something good out of them. 2x 256mb sticks of ram? How much is that worth like $150. I got $150 speakers for complaining about how my iPods keep crapping out. You spent what at least $4000 US on your PM G5.

[IDANNY]

that really really sucks.

I feel bad for you I hope you get this resolved. maybe you can convince them to give you a new machine.

[Steven1621]

yikes. i always fear that something like that will happen to me. sucks after looking forward to the arrival for so long. i bought an imac via the apple refurb store once and it never came since they sold more than they had. i was not very pleased with apple to say the least. apple is just another company, though. simply because they have a cult following doesn't mean that they are perfect.

[seelab]

OMG- they wouldn't just give you a new computer at the store? My friend bought an iMac G5 had a few small problems with the AP, talked to Apple Care for a couple hours, and after a few days after the purchase got a new iMac G5.


Hi,
no, they couldn't give me a new computer at the store because i purchased the G5 online on the Apple Store.
I had the option to send it back to Apple but it didn't seem quick and easy.
Today, of course i can only regret i didn't pick that option. But who knows, maybe the carrier would have lost my G5 on his way back to Apple...

[seelab]

that really really sucks.

I feel bad for you I hope you get this resolved. maybe you can convince them to give you a new machine.

No, it's too late. When there has been reparations made by technicians in a store, the computer can not qualify for a replacement procedure like a DOA.

[sjpetry]

Sorry about this.

[seelab]

Your problem is not unique. Neither is it unique to Apple. You should have sent your machine back to Apple ASAP. What you don't want is to have it in your own custody long enough that your problem can be reasonably assumed to have been caused by you. Apple offered you the option of initiating DOA procedures which would have taken three weeks. You refused that option, choosing instead to take matters into your own hands--literally. Two months later, you still don't have a working computer. You gambled and lost--big time.

Hi,
I gambled ? No, i didn't. I chose the better option at this time.
How could i know the technician would do a bad job at the store.
It took days and lots of phone calls before Applecare technicians talked about the DOA replacement option. The first solutions they gave me to this problem was "go to the nearest store". So, I did that.

[Gokhan]

you know what ****** apple threaten to take them to court and do so 2 months and a dead computer ? what the ****** i would be boiling !!!!!

tried doing that to me over my ibook which i just sent back and got a refund , no messing sue for phone bills etc

any court would side with you on this , although apple are trying they still have not sorted it !

its ok trying but that justs goes so far results are much better !!!!!!!

good luck

[slooksterPSV]

OMG, that is horrible. I'm wondering if I should buy from this company now, they ship via DHL, and if you had problems like that, well... I dunno. I'm so sorry. I hope that your mac days fair out better. If anything, I'd just go down and buy a brand new card at CompUSA or something (its the only Mac selling store in Utah that I've found (ok thats a lie but still)). I hope you get your GFX Card soon.

[jimsowden]

For my DOA they shipped the replacement G5 as soon as I supplied them with a tracking number for the one I sent back.

[EJBasile]

There is obviously something very wrong with that computer. If i were you I would be about to rip someones head off. I would rename this thread to "Powermac from Hell"

[JRM]

I'd be asking for a 6800 Ultra

(But then i guess you'd have to wait another 3 weeks)

Keep fighting!

[MisterMe]

Hi,
I gambled ? No, i didn't. I chose the better option at this time.
How could i know the technician would do a bad job at the store.
It took days and lots of phone calls before Applecare technicians talked about the DOA replacement option. The first solutions they gave me to this problem was "go to the nearest store". So, I did that.Admit it or not, you gambled. You lost. Learn from this experience. My guess is that at 7,481 CAD, your G5 is the most expensive thing that you ever bought. You have to treat your money like its your money. You expect other people to take care of you. Well, as difficult as this is for you to conceive, most people cannot care less about you or your money. You see that jimsowden followed the DOA procedures and received satisfaction.

In closing let me tell you this: when you need help, you need to be nice to every one that you encounter along the way. Alternatively, you can talk with them in a manner that shows them you know the game. However, this won't work if you don't actually know the game. In and of itself, it was not a mistake for you to take your computer to the Apple dealer. However, you cannot walk in showing the attitude you showed in your first two posts in this thread. My experience is that if you deal with service people as an adult, you will get excellent service. If you don't, well you are still waiting for a working computer.

[pdpfilms]

I am truly sorry to hear your story.

I am with you with the decisions you made... I had a similar condition when i got my G5, loud fans, no start up. I did as you did, and called applecare, and brought it to a local service center. Fortunately for me, I had my working G5 back in my hands within two weeks.

I have always been a huge supporter of apple. I think overall, their morals and goals are reasonable and good natured. Unfortunately, this is one of those cases that slips through....an applecare technician having a bad day and unwilling to help, a DHL driver hungover and unwilling to go the little extra, and a bunch of various employees who frankly don't give a crap. In your case, you have plenty of reason to hate Apple, you local service center, DHL, Purolator, and anybody else involved.

What's important is that you remember it was not the will of any one person to cause all this trouble. We've all had our off days, the day where a little careless action may have contributed to somebody else's 2 months of hell.

I applaud you for not talking any serious $h!t about apple in your post. Or anyone, for that matter. I think you handled it well.



" if we sow goodness, we will reap goodness; if we sow evil, we will reap evil"

[Mertzen]

Very sad story and shame on Apple .. maybe you should take this up with the fair business commission or something like that ..

[748s]

it's time you started legal proceedings. try consumer protection organisations in your area (better business/fair trading?).

as for the drivel below.......
wakey wakey hand off snakey.

Admit it or not, you gambled. You lost. Learn from this experience. My guess is that at 7,481 CAD, your G5 is the most expensive thing that you ever bought. You have to treat your money like its your money. You expect other people to take care of you. Well, as difficult as this is for you to conceive, most people cannot care less about you or your money. You see that jimsowden followed the DOA procedures and received satisfaction.

In closing let me tell you this: when you need help, you need to be nice to every one that you encounter along the way. Alternatively, you can talk with them in a manner that shows them you know the game. However, this won't work if you don't actually know the game. In and of itself, it was not a mistake for you to take your computer to the Apple dealer. However, you cannot walk in showing the attitude you showed in your first two posts in this thread. My experience is that if you deal with service people as an adult, you will get excellent service. If you don't, well you are still waiting for a working computer.

[pdp]

misterme, im afraid nothing you say is correct. your arguement is he gambled away his chance at getting the repairs that were needed.

i quote " they offered 2 solutions: "Take your G5 to the nearest Apple dealer" or "we can start a Dead On Arrival procedure"

these are TWO solutions that the APPLE representative offered. IN NO WAY ARE YOU GAMBLING by choosing one or the other. gambling by definition is playing a game of chance. the poster is not playing a game, nor is he taking chances. he is following through with one of the options available to him.

you say "In closing let me tell you this: when you need help, you need to be nice to every one that you encounter along the way. Alternatively, you can talk with them in a manner that shows them you know the game. However, this won't work if you don't actually know the game. In and of itself, it was not a mistake for you to take your computer to the Apple dealer. However, you cannot walk in showing the attitude you showed in your first two posts in this thread. My experience is that if you deal with service people as an adult, you will get excellent service. If you don't, well you are still waiting for a working computer."

give me a break. you make yourself sound like one of them 50 year olds that think they know everything there is to know about life. there is no need for niceties as long as you have your facts straight and documentation to support your case. you can not and will not be disregarded due to your mannerisms given you do not make any direct or implied threats. if you are, it's time for a civil suit.

the rest of the junk that you typed out is more suited for impressionable kids who want to be all they can be
:rolleyes:

as for the poster, get the ball rolling once again. instead of waiting, start making reasonable demands. they have your money and you have nothing. do not let the carelessness of others be an excuse for the outcomes you've received so far.

best of luck

[Mechcozmo]

Damn that sucks. I can't argue with anything you did, honestly.

Now, I would do this:
Call Apple. Show them your log (in a text file not on this web forum) what has happened. Say that you are really at your wit's end. You need this computer, and have gone through hell to get it. Ask to talk to a few managers, so that you get someone decently high up. Also tell em that the value of your computer has gone down, seeing as it is 2 months old. Don't scream at anyone, because then they will just get annoyed. But MAKE SURE THEY KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, and that you have done everything they wanted.

Don't threaten to sue. It won't work, you will just spend a lot of $$$ on lawyers, and Apple will say "We did everything right, and so did he" so you might as well just show Apple what's going on.

[Diatribe]

Damn that sucks. I can't argue with anything you did, honestly.

Now, I would do this:
Call Apple. Show them your log (in a text file not on this web forum) what has happened. Say that you are really at your wit's end. You need this computer, and have gone through hell to get it. Ask to talk to a few managers, so that you get someone decently high up. Also tell em that the value of your computer has gone down, seeing as it is 2 months old. Don't scream at anyone, because then they will just get annoyed. But MAKE SURE THEY KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, and that you have done everything they wanted.

Don't threaten to sue. It won't work, you will just spend a lot of $$$ on lawyers, and Apple will say "We did everything right, and so did he" so you might as well just show Apple what's going on.

That's good advice. I'd follow this and especially make sure to speak to someone else than the regular customer relation person but rather someone higer up.
Anyway, I wish you good luck and may 2005 be of more luck to you Apple-wise than 2004.

[rdowns]

Damn that sucks. I can't argue with anything you did, honestly.

Now, I would do this:
Call Apple. Show them your log (in a text file not on this web forum) what has happened. Say that you are really at your wit's end. You need this computer, and have gone through hell to get it. Ask to talk to a few managers, so that you get someone decently high up. Also tell em that the value of your computer has gone down, seeing as it is 2 months old. Don't scream at anyone, because then they will just get annoyed. But MAKE SURE THEY KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, and that you have done everything they wanted.

Don't threaten to sue. It won't work, you will just spend a lot of $$$ on lawyers, and Apple will say "We did everything right, and so did he" so you might as well just show Apple what's going on.

Good advise but I would add one thing. Dispute the charge on your credit card. Call them and explain your problems but you MUST also write them.

Advise Apple that you have disputed the charge and will not pay for the merchandise until they rectify the problem.

[BillD222]

I don't know why it wasn;t sent in to Apple to begin with. I'm on my 3rd Mac ( 2 iBooks and an iMac G5) since Steve came back. I've had nothing but good experiences with AppleCare. It is not as good as it used to be (I thing they changed their outsource), but for the most part you call them up, they send you a box, you send it in and the fix it and send it back. I, too, though did have a shipping incident with DH, when they fixed my iBook logic board - they had the wrong ZIP, and instead of lokking me up in the phone book or online, they kept on putting it on a truck and driving it around. So much for German efficiency! :D

Send the thing in and have them fix it.

[Photorun]

There is obviously something very wrong with that computer. If i were you I would be about to rip someones head off. I would rename this thread to "Powermac from Hell"

I know it's OT but you own a Dull 4550... [points at EJBasile] Hahahahaha!!! I feel bad for you man.

As far as seelab, starting calling Apple... call them every day, ask for names, higher and higher up, be persistant to downright annoying (but start out nice). Keep digging for resolution.

[EJBasile]

Try writing a letter addressed to Steve Jobs (the address is at the website under contact us). In the letter state the problems you have had and all the trouble it has caused you (stress that). Also talk about how much the computer cost. Hopefully the letter will be read someone higher up in the line. When I wrote to apple complaining about my iPods it was read by someone in "corperate executive relations". I don't know if that really means anything but talk to apple and see if you can work your way up and get them to do something. Oh yea metion that there are not any offical Apple Stores in Canada (or are there?), and say that you could not easily bring it to the Apple Store to get it fixed.

Otherwise, have the computer shop get it replaced for you. I would be outraged if My computer had been gone for 2 monthes.

[Thomas Veil]

First, let me agree with pdp: this is not your fault. You were not "gambling". Take it from another (almost) fifty year old guy.

And don't be overly polite. You've been screwed big time, and politeness is just going to get you walked over again. Don't be abusive, but be firm. Don't take any more excuses from anyone at Apple.

Second, I know it's naive to expect ethical behavior of a corporation nowadays, but I'm incensed that after all you went through, Apple didn't offer you a new computer. I mean that. Someone said you should have asked for a replacement. No. After this many problems with your computer, they should've just taken it back and replaced it. That's the way a responsible company treats its customers.

After all, do you think you could, in dealing with a customer in your job, ******* up their order this badly and still keep your job? I think not.

[MattG]

Damn dude...

At this point, I wouldn't take anything less than a brand new machine. Get on the phone with Apple and don't hang up until you're satisfied.

Best of luck to you...

[seelab]

Try writing a letter addressed to Steve Jobs (the address is at the website under contact us). In the letter state the problems you have had and all the trouble it has caused you (stress that). Also talk about how much the computer cost. Hopefully the letter will be read someone higher up in the line. When I wrote to apple complaining about my iPods it was read by someone in "corperate executive relations". I don't know if that really means anything but talk to apple and see if you can work your way up and get them to do something. Oh yea metion that there are not any offical Apple Stores in Canada (or are there?), and say that you could not easily bring it to the Apple Store to get it fixed.

Otherwise, have the computer shop get it replaced for you. I would be outraged if My computer had been gone for 2 monthes.

Hi, thanx for the tip but i didn't find Steve Job's email but i doubt he can help me. He must be busy with MWSF. I 've sent the same story to their feedback form.
I hope they will open an official Apple Store here in Montreal because the computer shop will never replace my machine. I tried you know but it's not possible.

[seelab]

Damn dude...

At this point, I wouldn't take anything less than a brand new machine. Get on the phone with Apple and don't hang up until you're satisfied.
.

That's what i've been doing during 2 months. I wish it was so easy.

[justinshiding]

Wow...that's pretty terrible. The only advice I have is more of what everyone else has said.

1) Keep good records of who you talk with , their operator extensions, dates, times, etc. I work in a call center part time, and I have a lot of people that claim that they've called before, but honestly, people lie to save their butts, so unless they have the name of someone that works here and their extension, I'm not inclined to believe them. If you keep all of this information then if you do have to take them to court, you've got good records and can prove that they've put you through something close to hell.

2) Be as nice as you can given your situation. It sucks, I know, but still you really want to have these people on your side. Ask to speak to their supervisors, but don't be an asshole about it. They're probably going to have to talk to their supervisor to explain the situation, and again...you want them on your side.

3) Be ready to repeat your troubles over and over again. It's going to happen. (You're probably already aware of this one ;) )

Well , good luck with that, if you keep climbing the bureaucratic ladder eventually you'll get someone that will help.

Justin

[seelab]

First, let me agree with pdp: this is not your fault. You were not "gambling". Take it from another (almost) fifty year old guy.

And don't be overly polite. You've been screwed big time, and politeness is just going to get you walked over again. Don't be abusive, but be firm. Don't take any more excuses from anyone at Apple.

Second, I know it's naive to expect ethical behavior of a corporation nowadays, but I'm incensed that after all you went through, Apple didn't offer you a new computer. I mean that. Someone said you should have asked for a replacement. No. After this many problems with your computer, they should've just taken it back and replaced it. That's the way a responsible company treats its customers.

After all, do you think you could, in dealing with a customer in your job, ******* up their order this badly and still keep your job? I think not.

Well, i didn't understand the gambling idea of MisterMe...

I tried everything in 2 months. I tried to be polite, to be firm. But after 2 months and more than a 100 calls, it's not easy to stay calm but i did 90 % of the time.

[seelab]

Admit it or not, you gambled. You lost. Learn from this experience. My guess is that at 7,481 CAD, your G5 is the most expensive thing that you ever bought. You have to treat your money like its your money. You expect other people to take care of you. Well, as difficult as this is for you to conceive, most people cannot care less about you or your money. You see that jimsowden followed the DOA procedures and received satisfaction.

In closing let me tell you this: when you need help, you need to be nice to every one that you encounter along the way. Alternatively, you can talk with them in a manner that shows them you know the game. However, this won't work if you don't actually know the game. In and of itself, it was not a mistake for you to take your computer to the Apple dealer. However, you cannot walk in showing the attitude you showed in your first two posts in this thread. My experience is that if you deal with service people as an adult, you will get excellent service. If you don't, well you are still waiting for a working computer.

I'm happy to hear it worked fine for jimsowden.
I've no doubt people have had good experiences with Apple Support or DOA procedures. I just wanted to let you know about my experience.
It's my third Mac in 5 years and it's the first time i'm experiencing a situation like that.

You don't know me so please stop pretending i 'm a kid and it's the first time i purchase something expensive, It's not.
Sorry about my english, i speak french so maybe that's why you think i'm a kid.
I'm sure you would have solved this problem in 2 days because you are a polite adult and i'm not but i guess we will never know.

About gambling: sorry, but when i give a Mac to a technician to an Apple official reseller i don't consider this like going to the casino.
If it was the case, they should have told me that.
Like i said they only offered the DOA solution after a few days and only because i asked for it (was easier for me because i don't have a car so the store option was less attractive). A guy in a forum told me about this solution so i called them. But the first and only solution they gave me at the beginning was to go to a store. And everyone (Apple technicians on the phone and the store) agreed the DOA wasn't the best, easier and faster way to solve the problem.

[MacsRgr8]

But after 2 months and more than a 100 calls, it's not easy to stay calm but i did 90 % of the time.

It's not even humanly possible to stay calm in your situation.

I would have gone totally mad.... and, sometimes that does work. You are delt with unfairly, and I hope you really let them know it.

I feel for you, mate!

Good luck

[anothernewbie]

These forums have helped me in the past. Let me try to help you. First, I doubt that this problem will be solved quickly, so plan on sticking with it for as long as it takes. Secondly, all the time on the telephone doesn't seem to be producing results, just more frustration. I suggest (1) start writing letters, even if just to confirm the agreements in a telephone call. (2) Write a letter stating what you want! It would seem that you want a new computer, although you have other options (money back, repair, different model, etc.). See if the local Apple repair facility will intervene on your behalf (ask them to). You will eventually get what you want. Does Canada have a consumer representation organization? If so, ask them for advice and help. Perhaps, just sending copies of your letters to them can also be helpful. Pace yourself-you will need energy and perseverance for the long haul, and you will get what you want!

[slooksterPSV]

I have one question, is it worth it for that beautiful machine? I mean if it were for a PC, I'd tell them I want my money back, but for a mac I can wait.

[dlisle20]

I sent my powermac to apple for a repair and they dropped it and took 2 months to send a replacment!!!!


PowerMac G5 dual 2.5GHZ 8GB RAM 256mb nvIDEA !!!!!!! :eek: :mad:

[jkaz]

3rd Mac in 5 years and you lost time and business? Where are the other 2 Macs?

After 5 years of using a Mac and you don't know how to handle the situation?


I agree with everyone that said you handled this situation poorly.

And I'm not convinced that you could be on your 3rd Mac in 5 years and yet have a DOA Mac for 2 months cause you to lose business.



It's my third Mac in 5 years and it's the first time i'm experiencing a situation like that.

You don't know me so please stop pretending i 'm a kid and it's the first time i purchase something expensive, It's not.

[seelab]

3rd Mac in 5 years and you lost time and business? Where are the other 2 Macs?

After 5 years of using a Mac and you don't know how to handle the situation?


I agree with everyone that said you handled this situation poorly.

And I'm not convinced that you could be on your 3rd Mac in 5 years and yet have a DOA Mac for 2 months cause you to lose business.

You'r right. I'm responsible about all of this. Sorry about posting here. End of story. Shame on me.
Bye

btw, the other macs have been sold. I'm one of those poor guys who can't afford to buy another Mac without selling my old computers. Shame on me, again.

[jkaz]

So you decided to change your business operation drastically without a backup plan?

Sold all your computers leaving you with the opportunity for everything to fail?

You put your 'business' in jeopardy, again, WITHOUT A BACKUP PLAN?


Yeah right.

[seelab]

Update.
So the Apple Cutomer rep was supposed to call me this morning. Do you think he 'll call ? ... I don't think so. It's 11.30 Am here and still nothing

[jeremy.king]

Just a thought, but have you considered calling your credit card company for some support? Sometimes they have a way to resolve these types of issues.

[seelab]

Just a thought, but have you considered calling your credit card company for some support? Sometimes they have a way to resolve these types of issues.

No, because I don't want a refund. I'd better have a working computer.

Ok, the Apple Rep finally called and it seems he is working seriously on my problem. He offered a replacement, so of course i accepted.
It may take some time but I'm very pleased with this solution. I hope things will work now and there won't be shipping problems again.

[jsw]

You'r right. I'm responsible about all of this. Sorry about posting here. End of story. Shame on me.
Bye

btw, the other macs have been sold. I'm one of those poor guys who can't afford to buy another Mac without selling my old computers. Shame on me, again.
Just ignore those who repond to these types of things by telling you what you should have done months ago - or, rather, what they think you should have done - or why what you did was "stupid".

The people who offer suggestions on what you could do now are generally much more helpful, even if you don't always agree with them.

I'm happy that Apple finally called back, and appalled that it took so long to get something started. I hope it all works out for you now. Best of luck!

[Windowlicker]

Oh my gosh.. Never seen that kind of a pain in the arse :Q

You think you could start a law case? This is clearly a violation against consumer.. After all you've done they should be giving you the computer for free.

[slooksterPSV]

Jkaz, its not his fault. He's called them, he hasn't just let it be. You guys are @$$e$ for saying he's not doing everything, but he is. He's doing everything that he possibly can. Just keep calling them and talking to them seelab. This whole thing will finally be over. Don't not call them for a week. Keep calling them every 3 to 4 days to see whats going on. You're fighting a winning battle for you. Good luck. I'll keep you and the mac in my prayers (well... I'm not religious, but its a mac, so come on)

[lha72]

If it's broke, send it back. Should have done that when it arrived and didn't work, rather than lugging it to the store, then whine over a scratch on the handle, and the note "in english" and the subsequent conversations "in english". Not too many years ago people actually ordered from catalogs, and when items arrived but were broken, or the wrong size, they sent them back and got replacements in 6-8 weeks, no whining.

[Gokhan]

good news seeleb glad apple are sorting it but u know i would push for some compensation an update for free or something afterall 2 months !

i suppose beggers cant be chosers

no let me say thats ****** for 8k i would wanna b a choser

good luck bro (:

[Mechcozmo]

If it's broke, send it back. Should have done that when it arrived and didn't work, rather than lugging it to the store, then whine over a scratch on the handle, and the note "in english" and the subsequent conversations "in english". Not too many years ago people actually ordered from catalogs, and when items arrived but were broken, or the wrong size, they sent them back and got replacements in 6-8 weeks, no whining.

Hey, everyone stop bashing this guy! After his G5 came DOA and having the shipping components all get lost, I don't think he wants you telling him what he should have done, because in hindsight, sure he could have sent it in. But guess what, hindsight is 20/20. So let this guy be! Give him suggestions that aren't "sue apple cauez that suks and u reallys should get a nu g5, but ure an idito for not doing that 1st" or anything close to that. Give him moral support if you need to, but PLEASE STOP BASHING THIS GUY! THANK YOU VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE!

[ozone]

Admit it or not, you gambled. You lost. Learn from this experience. My guess is that at 7,481 CAD, your G5 is the most expensive thing that you ever bought. You have to treat your money like its your money. You expect other people to take care of you. Well, as difficult as this is for you to conceive, most people cannot care less about you or your money. You see that jimsowden followed the DOA procedures and received satisfaction.

In closing let me tell you this: when you need help, you need to be nice to every one that you encounter along the way. Alternatively, you can talk with them in a manner that shows them you know the game. However, this won't work if you don't actually know the game. In and of itself, it was not a mistake for you to take your computer to the Apple dealer. However, you cannot walk in showing the attitude you showed in your first two posts in this thread. My experience is that if you deal with service people as an adult, you will get excellent service. If you don't, well you are still waiting for a working computer.

seelab... the only valid point is from MisterMe (rather narrowly focused name, now that I think of it) is that you have to be careful. However, how much more careful you could have been in this situation is really debatable. Assuming you've recited everything as it occurred - and there is little reason to doubt otherwise, there seems little else that could have likely been done.

I share the other comments that have been posted: criticisms like the ones from MisterMe and jkaz are both unhelpful, presumptuous, and demeaning. MisterMe falls down on several fronts in terms of logically arguing his point:
- As one other member pointed out, it is hardly a gamble when the company itself offers you two choices and even indicates the DOA option is suspect.
- There is no guarantee whatsoever that you would received superior service from a DOA replacement rather than a local repair. In fact, the advantage to local service is usually that you have immediate access to the persons involved: personal interaction can go a long way in smoothing out problems. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to help here.
- There was no indication that you "did not talk nicely" or mistreated Apple representatives or 3rd party in any way, and therefore one should not presume that you are at fault in this regard. Clearly, you were expressing frustration that any person in your situation would likely feel. I assume that while you were angry, you would not have necessarily stood in the store "screaming and shouting".
- To use MisterMe's and jkaz's somewhat flawed arguments, opting for the faster and more personal local service would be LESS of a gamble as you were warned by Apple reps that DOA replacement could be lengthy and prolonged.
- MisterMe uses "jimsowden followed the DOA procedures" and succeeded as proof that you pursued the poorer option. This is faulty logic in that what is presented is only anecdotal in nature: basically, it happened to this one person. There is no statistical basis for furthering this argument to justify that jimsowden's solution would have worked for you.
- It is true that no business (or person for that matter) should operate without a contingency. However, under REASONABLE circumstances (and this would likely be the standards used in any civil court proceeding), assuming that your problem (a personal computer problem in the 21st century) could be fixed with due cause within 2 months is not unreasonable. Although statistically unreliable and incomplete, the statements of many members on this forum clearly suggests what you experienced was NOT the norm.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am also a fellow Canadian in Ontario who last summer, tried to order a 17" PB and failed miserably after waiting almost 5 weeks. After multiple shipping delays, I discovered that Apple Canada has placed the wrong internal order. I cancelled my order immediately. Furthermore, I have not had favourable experiences with Purolator. In one instance, a couriered document that only would have required 3 hours by car to reach its destination did not arrive for 5 days. Given that I was couriering a research proposal that was time sensitive, such mishandling is unacceptable.

The previous suggestion that you try contacting your credit card company is a good one. I'm not sure what they can do; however, I have spoken to credit card companies on other matters. Essentially, if the product delivered is not the item promised (tricky in your situation) or not delivered at all, perhaps you have some recourse.

And lastly, I felt I had to write such a lengthy post because I am both surprised and outraged at the callous replies you received and even more so, the presumptuous and borderline demeaning tones taken by MisterMe and jkaz. Let's assume that you did do something wrong... such persons are still in no personal or authoritative position relative to you to respond in such a tone. Criticize perhaps; demean - no.

I have posted on many other (heaven forbid) Windows forums, and I have yet to see the level of poor taste that a few MacForum members have sunk to.

Bonne chance.

[i_am_a_cow]

I was pretty upset tonight (maybe not as much as I would be if I were you) because a story about my trying to help my grandma and grandpa looks like it's starting to unfold.

So I signed up for this "PeoplePC" ISP for my grandma, because Juno wasn't treating her very well. When I called the company, they told me that I could use windows software, as opposed to their browser and email client like juno. They didn't tell me that grandma had to use their dialer. Windows dialer software didn't work right away because they "encrypted" the user and password. So I found out how to get the "encrypted" username and password and made my grandma a DUN connection. The dialer that came with PeoplePC sucks. It tries to disconnect when you close the window, but since it is web-based, the dialog box that comes up gets cut off so you can't see the buttons (I have big text enabled so my grandma and grandpa can see a little better, since my grandma was complaining about that). Now, they cut her off so that she has to use this dialer that doesn't work. It's hard for her to use the computer any way, and I just can't imagine how it is going to be for her to try and figure out how to install and use this terrible dialer. My grandma said she was very sad, and that makes me sad. Plus, when I tried to call the support number, it was busy. I'm pretty upset.

I wish I could go help her, but she lives in Indiana, and I live in Minnesota.

[Timelessblur]

Just ignore those who repond to these types of things by telling you what you should have done months ago - or, rather, what they think you should have done - or why what you did was "stupid".

The people who offer suggestions on what you could do now are generally much more helpful, even if you don't always agree with them.

I'm happy that Apple finally called back, and appalled that it took so long to get something started. I hope it all works out for you now. Best of luck!

I am with this guy. all this tread as start to prove to me is why I think the apple zealots are the worse of the zealots. This are the idoits who think apple can do no wrong and when ever something goes wrong god forbid it be apple that screwed up so it must be the person. I bet if it went where you went DOA and it did not work they would be saying you screwed up and should of taken it to a local authorized shop. Face there is a reason I think apple Zealots are the lowest of the low (I dont like any zealot but I hate the apple ones the most) Well zealot boys thx for proving my point yet again

[technocoy]

their replies and attacks on character where immature, useless, and arrogant. and as for jkaz, that was possibly the most useless and idiotic reply i have ever seen on this forum. it was like you just wanted to say something for the sake of it and it had to be demeaning. how do you pronounce jkas?

seelab, good luck. i agree with the others in that you need to keep with it, and hopefully this replacement will go smoothly and you will have a working computer soon.

this forum is intended as a constructive medium for fellow mac users. when someone has a problem (especially a legitimate one) we should all be attempting to help them, not make trivial and childish remarks that do nothing to solve their problem or increase the value of this community.

technocoy

[slooksterPSV]

Hey, everyone stop bashing this guy! After his G5 came DOA and having the shipping components all get lost, I don't think he wants you telling him what he should have done, because in hindsight, sure he could have sent it in. But guess what, hindsight is 20/20. So let this guy be! Give him suggestions that aren't "sue apple cauez that suks and u reallys should get a nu g5, but ure an idito for not doing that 1st" or anything close to that. Give him moral support if you need to, but PLEASE STOP BASHING THIS GUY! THANK YOU VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE!

Thank you Mechcozmo. You're a good person. People need to quit bashing on him. If I were him, I probably would have done the same thing, cause you don't know how long it will take apple before they finally would send you another G5. You guys know you probably would have done the same thing if you were eager about using your PMG5 too. I think what he's doing is good.

Seelab have you thought about maybe going out and buying a video card for your PM G5 at a retail store? Or even seeing if someone here on the forum has one you could buy from them? Just curious cause, maybe that one will get to you faster. - DHL, makes me so mad.

[Abstract]

Hi,
I gambled ? No, i didn't. I chose the better option at this time.
How could i know the technician would do a bad job at the store.
It took days and lots of phone calls before Applecare technicians talked about the DOA replacement option. The first solutions they gave me to this problem was "go to the nearest store". So, I did that.

Its not really a gamble when it's a seemingly simple procedure to fix. Replace a logic board or video card doesn't seem like something that would take 2 months to fix. Even if the repair were to take longer than expected, I would have guessed 1 extra week, possibly an extra 2 weeks if things really went to the crapper, not an extra 6-7 weeks.

jkaz is a jackass.

And any manager will tell you that the people who ask for something for free never usually get anything, especially if they're not nice, but people who ask nicely for some solution to rectify the problem (ie: your lost productivity over the past 2 months) will get something. :)

I applaud you for not talking any serious $h!t about apple in your post. Or anyone, for that matter. I think you handled it well.


Agreed. I would have gone mental and lost it completely. Or at least I would have trashed the companies involved, but you didn't.

[spinner]

I am very disappointed with the way some of the posters here have treated seelab. We are a community here! We are supposed to help one another and offer our support, not blame him. Like anyone would knowingly bring this type of situation upon themselves. This could have happened to any one of us. I know that I would be extremely pissed off if I had spent that much money on a computer I couldn't even use!

[absolut_mac]

Admit it or not, you gambled. You lost.

Yes, he gambled on one of the two options given to him by Apple, but no, he hasn't lost yet. Other than time lost without a working computer, and the extra aggravation and knowledge gained from this sorry episode.

seelab, remember that you are entitled to a working computer for your hard earned dollars.

My suggestion is to get in touch with the supervisor at Apple in charge of repairs and politely but firmly request a new working computer otherwise you'll cancel the sale because you never received a working model in the first place.

If he says that that's not possible because you took it to the Apple reseller etc. Reply that you only followed Apple's advice and that the Apple certified technicians at the store couldn't get it working - hence your request for a new replacement. Politely repeat that you work hard for your money and that you think that you deserve a working unit for such a large sum of money. If he refuses, cancel the sale and let your CC company deal with it and then ship the non-working unit back to them.

Edit - Most CC companies allow you up to 60 days to dispute a charge, so time is now of the essence if you choose to go that route

[sunmade]

Has your problem been solved yet?
I am waiting for my 2.5 G5 for the last 2 months, and I sure hope it works mint when here.

Keep your head up, your new machine is on its way...

I feel for you, congrats on keeping cool as far as possible!!
peace

[seelab]

I posted the same story on Apple discussions board (in PowerMac G5 - Usage) two days ago and i just received an email from Apple. They removed my post.

"Your post titled "MY POWERMAC G5 - 2 MONTHS IN HELL" has been removed from Apple Discussions. This area is intended to address technical issues. Posts that do not conform to the Apple Discussions Terms of Use are inappropriate."

[jsw]

I posted the same story on Apple discussions board (in PowerMac G5 - Usage) two days ago and i just received an email from Apple. They removed my post.

"Your post titled "MY POWERMAC G5 - 2 MONTHS IN HELL" has been removed from Apple Discussions. This area is intended to address technical issues. Posts that do not conform to the Apple Discussions Terms of Use are inappropriate."
Apparently, the fact that the Mac doesn't work at all isn't considered a technical issue. :rolleyes:

[Timelessblur]

I think they disaproved of the use of hell is my only guess. that or apple being it useal panzy self and does not like to admit they ships some computers that are broken and that they also have some crappy tech support like everyone else

[slooksterPSV]

Nothings perfect. I mean my friend got a laptop from Dell shipped to him and it was DOA, sent it back, they sent him another one, it was DOA, finally they sent him a working one but it had the wrong specs. Instead of a P4 it had a Celeron, contacted them and they said that they would only refund part of his money for the specs and that. Well they only sent him a check for $150. He's not doing business with them anymore.

Companies will make mistakes. Apple should know this, but still, they have faithful people out there.