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mosx
Nov 19, 2010, 09:54 PM
So my 7 week old iPod nano died. Same stuck sleep/wake button that seems to be affecting a lot of people.

I went to the Apple store to have it replaced. Halfway through the process the guy says they have no stock of it and it can't be swapped. I'd have to mail it in. He assures me that the mail in service would give me a new unit the same as he would have.

So I set up the repair. Send it in. It takes two days longer than it should have because the person at the call center typed the serial number in wrong. Lovely.

I get the replacement. The person thats been helping me informs me its a "service unit" and refurbished, not new. Great.

I paid for a new unit. I specifically bought a new unit because I wanted it new, not refurbished. On top of that, I did mail in service because I was assured that I would get a new replacement. So this is, in a sense, a bait and and switch.

Now I have more fun to deal with getting them to honor their employees word and obey the law regarding bait and switch with merchandise.

After this, the swelling battery in my MacBook they refused to replace even though its a manufacturer defect and a design flaw, and all of the other experiences I've had with Apple, I'm done. No more Apple products for me. I won't even buy apps from the app store any more.



And1ss
Nov 19, 2010, 11:02 PM
Warranty replacements are usually done with what Apple calls "service" units. These are technically new. You never get a retail version from a warranty service. In this case, your were misinformed, but that's how Apple replaces defective units.

Other than that, may I ask the point of this thread? Just to rant?

Saturdays
Nov 20, 2010, 02:40 AM
rant thread, but i'll provide some info that might help you out, and some that will just piss you off.

If you want things done, be calm and ask to speak to a supervisor when calling Apple Care. Ask Apple to look at logs of your calls/visits and notes from when you did. They usually record notes on what transversed when you visit or call, and they have access to it all when you call usually.

Apple often replaces parts serviced with refurbished/serviced parts. However these parts are fully tested and made sure to be in working condition. For instance, if your dvd drive on a macbook died, you get a refurbished dvd. If your iPod breaks they replace with a refurbished one. Generally most things with Apple work like that and other companies usually do the same thing.

Anyway keep trying to get word to a supervisor if in face the conversation was documented he should be able to pull it up.

Good Luck

macking104
Nov 20, 2010, 09:07 PM
Did you read your Apple warranty and the sales policies? You accepted those terms and conditions the second you purchased the iPod-- whether at a retail store, on the phone, or online... Many Apple stores will be nice and replace a 2 month old product with new. Other stores would probably say that you need to abide by product warranty for repair/replacement...

http://images.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/ipodisight.pdf

mosx
Nov 20, 2010, 09:51 PM
Did you read your Apple warranty and the sales policies? You accepted those terms and conditions the second you purchased the iPod-- whether at a retail store, on the phone, or online... Many Apple stores will be nice and replace a 2 month old product with new. Other stores would probably say that you need to abide by product warranty for repair/replacement...

http://images.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/ipodisight.pdf

Don't get me started on that crap.

First, I didn't buy it from Apple. I bought it at Frys. Second, it doesn't say ANYWHERE on the box that this device is subject to those terms and using it means you agree to them. It doesn't even mention the fact that iTunes pops up a license agreement for using the iPod software. The only thing mentioned on the box is that iTunes is subject to a license agreement, nothing else.

And finally, again, the Apple Store employee assured me (and I have a witness willing to testify to that fact) that I would be receiving a new retail unit the same way I would have if they had stock in store that day.

I can understand a refurbished unit if the iPod was close to the end of the warranty period. But it was only 7 weeks old, 3 weeks passed the return window.

I paid for new. I was assured I would get new. I want new or a pro-rated refund for the difference between new and refurbished.

I would prefer to have my money back entirely, seeing as how these things are destined to fail.

As far as other things go, I've actually had the optical drive in my Mac (and PC) die and both Apple and HP replaced them with new parts, judging on the build date, serial numbers, and other factors.

Refurbished would be fine if Apple wants to refund me the difference in cost.

wordoflife
Nov 20, 2010, 09:56 PM
Don't get me started on that crap.

First, I didn't buy it from Apple. I bought it at Frys. Second, it doesn't say ANYWHERE on the box that this device is subject to those terms and using it means you agree to them. It doesn't even mention the fact that iTunes pops up a license agreement for using the iPod software. The only thing mentioned on the box is that iTunes is subject to a license agreement, nothing else.

And finally, again, the Apple Store employee assured me (and I have a witness willing to testify to that fact) that I would be receiving a new retail unit the same way I would have if they had stock in store that day.

I can understand a refurbished unit if the iPod was close to the end of the warranty period. But it was only 7 weeks old, 3 weeks passed the return window.

I paid for new. I was assured I would get new. I want new or a pro-rated refund for the difference between new and refurbished.

I would prefer to have my money back entirely, seeing as how these things are destined to fail.

As far as other things go, I've actually had the optical drive in my Mac (and PC) die and both Apple and HP replaced them with new parts, judging on the build date, serial numbers, and other factors.

Refurbished would be fine if Apple wants to refund me the difference in cost.

You never know, they could have just fixed your iPod and sent it back to you. That qualifies as refurbished I guess.

markie
Nov 21, 2010, 05:43 AM
Seriously dude, lose the attitude. I say that in the nicest way. If I worked for Apple, I'd have no desire to work with you at all based on how you sound on the forums. I'd be polite, have a smile, and do the minimum my job required me to do. In life, if you want steller customer service, you need to be a steller customer.

Second, yes, you bought a new unit - two months ago. An Apple refurb (and actually MANY of the service units are new, just without retail packaging) is as good as new. It has a new battery, a new case, and all other parts test/fixed. It's better than if they fixed your unit, since it gets a battery with no wear and a screen with no scratches. The warranty allows them to do this, and it's a more than fair swap.

Third, you mention it's "destined to fail" - well, of course it is! NOTHING on this earth lasts. Apple products are generally on the higher end of build quality though. They last longer than the competition, most of the time.

Fourth, before you call me a fanboy, I'm TICKED at how Apple treated me with the MacBook Pro I'm typing on now that was, in many ways, a lemon. They left me on my own because of one little dent in the aluminum case from a small drop that had nothing to do with my problem. You can't void a warranty for physical damage that they can't prove is the problem, but they did. It's like saying if you get in a fender bender, the car company won't fix your engine. Before any true Apple fanboys claim a computer is somehow different - it's not. And I know plenty about computer repair, there is nothing I could've damaged to cause my symptoms which were widely reported issues with early 13" MBPs and certain hard drives. A logic board replacement fixed the issue for most people. I fixed it with a different hard drive since Apple illegally voided my warranty for no reason. I have an extremely sour taste for Apple customer service now. I'd rather avoid Apple in the future, but I'm not going to use inferior products that don't do what I need just to spite Apple.

So trust me, I know what it means to have Apple wrong you on the warranty thing. And you didn't. They got you a working product in better condition than what you sent in. Quickly and efficiently. That's how warranty service SHOULD be :)

mosx
Nov 21, 2010, 01:23 PM
Seriously dude, lose the attitude. I say that in the nicest way. If I worked for Apple, I'd have no desire to work with you at all based on how you sound on the forums. I'd be polite, have a smile, and do the minimum my job required me to do. In life, if you want steller customer service, you need to be a steller customer.

I have an attitude because of all of the run ins I've had with Apple customer support.

I've had to send my MacBook out to AppleCare about 9 times total. Why so many times? Because the repair center sent the system back in worse shape, either cosmetically or functionally, than I sent it out in.

One time I sent out a plastic MacBook because the case had started to crack around the vents and turn yellow around the vent because of Apple's high temperatures and poor cooling system designs. When it came back to me, not only did it look like it had been dragged across asphalt, but the casing around the opening for the optical drive had somehow been warped to the point where I couldn't put a disc in.

Because of their repair center screwing things up all the time, Apple replaced my Mac twice. It wasn't because I was unhappy. It was because of a combination of Apple's poor build quality and their repair center being unable to do the job without screwing things up even worse than they were before.

Even when I finally got my third system, things were only good for a year or so. After about a year, Apple issue a firmware update for the optical drive that killed it. Had to send it out to get the drive replaced. When I got it back the bottom case looked like it had a screw driver pounded almost all the way through. So I had to make the hour long journey to the Apple store for them to replace that piece of the case.

And finally, the battery in my MacBook started to swell up and start cutting off randomly during use. This is a known defect with those batteries. But Apple told me to go pound sand in a more polite way.

So I have every reason to be upset with Apple and have an attitude. Because of them, I spent a combined total of more than two months without a computer. I've had to spend a significant amount of money on gas because of them. And I've been screwed over by them.

Second, yes, you bought a new unit - two months ago. An Apple refurb (and actually MANY of the service units are new, just without retail packaging) is as good as new. It has a new battery, a new case, and all other parts test/fixed. It's better than if they fixed your unit, since it gets a battery with no wear and a screen with no scratches. The warranty allows them to do this, and it's a more than fair swap.

No, its not fair. Refurbished units sell cheaper than new. Again, I paid for new. It doesn't matter that it was two months ago. I paid for new, I deserve new. If they want to give me refurbished AFTER assuring me that I would get a new replacement unit then they need to refund me the difference. In cash. No Apple store credit.

Third, you mention it's "destined to fail" - well, of course it is! NOTHING on this earth lasts. Apple products are generally on the higher end of build quality though. They last longer than the competition, most of the time.

Those last two sentences make me laugh. Apple products are NOT built better than the competition. Case in point being my MacBook issues as well as my iPhone 4. I love my iPhone 4, and iPhones are the only Apple product to never give me problems. But I shouldn't have to have it in a case thats built for protection just because Apple chooses style over functionality.

But, getting back on topic, do a google search for the 6th generation iPod nano. The same problem I had, the sleep/wake button dying, is VERY widespread with A LOT of people having this problem. With as many people who have had issues, its easy to say its destined to fail. And whats worse is all of those people were able to go into the Apple store and get it exchanged for a NEW unit.

Fourth, before you call me a fanboy, I'm TICKED at how Apple treated me with the MacBook Pro I'm typing on now that was, in many ways, a lemon. They left me on my own because of one little dent in the aluminum case from a small drop that had nothing to do with my problem. You can't void a warranty for physical damage that they can't prove is the problem, but they did. It's like saying if you get in a fender bender, the car company won't fix your engine. Before any true Apple fanboys claim a computer is somehow different - it's not. And I know plenty about computer repair, there is nothing I could've damaged to cause my symptoms which were widely reported issues with early 13" MBPs and certain hard drives. A logic board replacement fixed the issue for most people. I fixed it with a different hard drive since Apple illegally voided my warranty for no reason. I have an extremely sour taste for Apple customer service now.

If you live in the US you can sue Apple under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. You should actually be able to sue them in small claims. I know here in California, thanks to the state consumer protection laws and Magnuson-Moss, I'd be able to sue them in small claims and I'm almost guaranteed a win.

And now that jailbreaking is legal, this would apply to any iOS users who have jailbroken and are denied warranty service. Sue under Magnuson-Moss and your own states consumer protection laws.

I'd rather avoid Apple in the future, but I'm not going to use inferior products that don't do what I need just to spite Apple.

When it comes to computers, this sort of statement is just mind boggling. How are competitors products inferior? Aside from battery life, competing brands make far better products. True quad core processors in notebooks, GPUs that are far more powerful than anything offered in any shipping Mac (other than expensive upgrades for the Mac Pro), blu-ray readers, multi-card readers, eSATA, USB 3, etc. And these are all in systems that cost significantly less than Apple products.

In the one case I can think of where Apple costs less, its only by $50. That would be the base Mac mini compared to the Dell Zino HD. The Dell is about the same size as the Mac mini, but taller. And for $50 more you get a blu-ray reader, quad core processor, blu-ray reader, significantly better GPU, etc.

Owning an iPhone, iPad, and various iPods, I can make the same arguments about those products and their competitors as well. After this experience, I'm done buying Apple products. The situation with the iPad helped with that decision too. The iPad should have shipped with iOS 4. It should have had 512MB of RAM instead of 256. It should have had FaceTime with dual cameras. Jobs knew all of that was coming with iPhone 4 but decided to hold it out of the iPad for sake of pushing iPhone 3GS sales up until the iPhone 4 release, pushing sales of the iPhone 4, and attempting to get early adopters to buy a second iPad a year later when it finally shipped with those features.

So trust me, I know what it means to have Apple wrong you on the warranty thing. And you didn't. They got you a working product in better condition than what you sent in. Quickly and efficiently. That's how warranty service SHOULD be

No, they screwed me over. Again. I paid twice as much for a product as I should have only to have it die due to poor build quality, and now they're trying to push a used product on me when I paid for new.

SkippyThorson
Nov 21, 2010, 02:12 PM
So regardless of how people try to give you advice, you're here solely to complain. You've made your point.

Seeing that nothing anyone says can make you happy, I guess there's no help left for you. Go get a Dell at Best Buy, and enjoy all Windows offers.

:)

...I've had to send my MacBook out to AppleCare about 9 times total...

...One time I sent out a plastic MacBook...

...Apple replaced my Mac twice...

...Even when I finally got my third system...

...my MacBook issues as well as my iPhone 4...

...Owning an iPhone, iPad, and various iPods...

So, after 9 run-ins with AppleCare, 3 different MacBooks, an iPhone 4, an iPad, and multiple iPods, only NOW have you decided you're done with Apple? What took so long? They apparently haven't been that bad to you, since you're the one that decided to buy all those things in the first place.

I'm going to seriously ask you the same question I asked my computer-killing friends. Would a cheaply pieced-together plastic toy from Dell, HP or anyone else have done better? If an Apple laptop gives you this many problems, then imagine what the cheaper-built things would be like.

...Apple products are NOT built better than the competition. Case in point being my MacBook...

That's a laugh. YOUR MacBook(s) sum(s) up ALL of Apple? There's a reason that Dells and HPs cost a fraction of what Macs do. You got the short end of a few sticks. Some people have rotten luck. I must have gotten the opposite of yours. I've had 0 major issues. Ever. I even got a cracked iPhone screen replaced that was my fault because I got a nice person.

Everything isn't perfect. I have 3 PPC computers that are rock solid. My girlfriend has had a rocky relationship with her white plastic MacBook. Not every single thing can be perfect 100% of the time. Sounds like this is the first time you've learned that.

mosx
Nov 21, 2010, 03:26 PM
So regardless of how people try to give you advice, you're here solely to complain. You've made your point.

The point of my post is to show people what Apple customer service is really like, so they can make their own decisions appropriately.

Seeing that nothing anyone says can make you happy, I guess there's no help left for you. Go get a Dell at Best Buy, and enjoy all Windows offers.

I'm too intelligent to buy a system at a big box store. I can build it myself.

However, at least a Dell would let me watch my blu-ray discs and play modern games at modern resolutions. Oh, even better, that Dell can be UPGRADED beyond a RAM or HDD upgrade, which is required out of the box for nearly all Apple computers.

So, after 9 run-ins with AppleCare, 3 different MacBooks, an iPhone 4, an iPad, and multiple iPods, only NOW have you decided you're done with Apple? What took so long? They apparently haven't been that bad to you, since you're the one that decided to buy all those things in the first place.

Good job posting without knowing all of the facts.

I've already sworn off Apple's computers. A long time ago.

Build quality, prices that are 2-3x what they should be, and low specs mean I won't be buying another Apple computer.

iPods I never had any issues with, other than the 3G nano having a tilted screen.

iPhones I've never had issues with either, other than no option for contract free service.

iPad I didn't have an issue with until the iPhone 4 came out and it had all of these things the iPad should have had. Couldn't return my iPad at that point, and Apple takes away my right of first sale, so I can't sell the apps I buy from the app store.

Would a cheaply pieced-together plastic toy from Dell, HP or anyone else have done better? If an Apple laptop gives you this many problems, then imagine what the cheaper-built things would be like.

You honestly believe Macs are built better? Look at the plastic MacBooks. For years they had issues with cracking around the vents, cracking on the top case, and cracking along the bottom.

The new plastic MacBooks have issues with the lid cracking around the hinges.

Metal Mac notebooks have had issues with scratching, denting, and with the previous MBP/PowerBook design, warping from heat due to poor cooling design. The titanium PowerBooks were known for rusting!

Let's not forget the iBook G3 and G4 motherboard issues, where some European governments got involved and forced Apple to repair or replace them.

Would you like to talk about the iMac screen issues?

How about the late 2008 MacBook and MacBook Pro unibody systems having issues with swelling batteries?

The funny thing is, I have a 3 year old HP. It's made out of plastic. It outlived my first MacBook, the first replacement, and its still going strong alongside the second replacement MacBook, the 2008 unibody MacBook that has needed repairs and a new battery. It runs significantly cooler than any of my MacBooks have and it even has dedicated graphics, despite costing several hundred less than the MacBook did.

Being made out of metal doesn't automatically make a product "built better" than others. Especially when you're using hair thin aluminum for the main casing. My HP may be made out of plastic, you can feel that it is every bit as strong as the Mac is.

That's a laugh. YOUR MacBook(s) sum(s) up ALL of Apple? There's a reason that Dells and HPs cost a fraction of what Macs do. You got the short end of a few sticks. Some people have rotten luck. I must have gotten the opposite of yours. I've had 0 major issues. Ever.

Not just my MacBook. The Mac of every single person I have ever known to own a Mac. In fact, the last person I knew that was an Apple fangirl finally had a change of heart after her MacBook died for the fourth time, this time outside of her 3 year AppleCare warranty.

It amazes me that diehard Apple fans think its perfectly acceptable to buy something, be required to buy an extended warranty, and continually deal with system repairs. That is somehow a "good experience". While the rest of the world realizes that if you buy something, other than "consumable parts" (like parts on a car, or a HDD or optical drive), it shouldn't need repaired or die for a very long time.

HP and Dell cost significantly less than Apple because they don't have that sort of following. They can't sell significantly underpowered hardware for more than their competitors sell high end hardware and have their fans buy it. HP and Dell have to compete in the real world.

I mean, look at Apple's prices. Look at the $999 MacBook. Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz (still? Really?) 2GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, GeForce 320m, 13" screen. Over at Newegg, I can get a 15.6" Lenovo, QUAD core, 8 thread, Core i7 1.6GHz, 4GB of RAM, 500GB HDD, Radeon 5730, etc. for $849. Thats more power than the $2,000 MacBook Pro for $1,150 less. If I go to that same $2,000 price range I can get an 18.4" system, 6GB of RAM, 500GB HDD, 64GB SSD, true quad core, 8 thread, Core i7 1.73GHz, blu-ray reader, and GeForce GTX 460M. In fact, I can get that same 18.4" system without the SSD and blu-ray reader and a Core i5 and GTX 460M for $1,179.

So this whole story about others cutting corners simply isn't true. Its a flat out lie.

The reality of the matter is that Apple significantly overcharges for their product. And they can get away with it because of their fan base and current "good" brand name. No other company in the industry would be able to get away with charging $2,000 for a dual core processor and a low-end GPU. No other company would be able to get away with charging $1,000 for integrated graphics, a 4 year old CPU, and 2GB of RAM. But Apple can and they do it.

wordoflife
Nov 21, 2010, 03:57 PM
In regard to what you posted above about pricing and age of stuff.... (i didn't feel like quoting it).

Most people find "You get what you pay for" when it comes to Apple stuff. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. Theres no need to rant about it.
I like it, so I buy it. Others like it, so they buy it. Others don't like it, they don't buy it. Pretty simple.

mosx
Nov 21, 2010, 05:04 PM
In regard to what you posted above about pricing and age of stuff.... (i didn't feel like quoting it).

Most people find "You get what you pay for" when it comes to Apple stuff. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. Theres no need to rant about it.
I like it, so I buy it. Others like it, so they buy it. Others don't like it, they don't buy it. Pretty simple.

Actually, I would say most people feel they don't get what they pay for with Apple products. Thats why worldwide Mac market share is still very low single digits.

In the past, when I would actually recommend Apple products, everyone from technically challenged to those that cared more about style and design than functionality would look at the specs of a PC versus a Mac and say the same thing "but this PC costs way less and I get a lot more!".

You absolutely don't get what you pay for with a Mac. For $2,000 what do you get in a MacBook Pro? An expensive fashion accessory that isn't anywhere near as powerful, capable, or useful as PCs costing less than half as much. For $1,000, what do you get? A system that is only as powerful as what you can get at Walmart for half as much, and significantly less powerful than a PC costing the same amount.

Right now, the only two products that Apple sells that are priced appropriately and you get your moneys worth for would be the iPhone 4 and iPod touch. Though with the iPhone 4, you have to take into account service costs. And thats a whole other debate there.

The fact of the matter is that you don't get what you pay for with nearly all Apple products. They're shiny fashion accessories that focus more on luring you in with pretty design than actually being powerful tools that can help you be productive or make your life easier or more enjoyable.

Apple truly has become the Bose of computing. Overpriced products that are poorly built, living on a brand name that will diminish with time if they don't get their act together.

Apple might be the largest technology company in the world right now. But thats only because of two reasons. One being a hyper inflated stock price. The other being the fact that their hardware is built the cheapest way possible and sold for several times more than its actually worth. The Apple bubble will burst at some point in the future.

wirelessmacuser
Nov 21, 2010, 07:02 PM
Here are some neutral thoughts based solely on the printed policies & terms of Apple, Lenovo, HP, Sony, et al. An aggregate of companies in the computer industry. Four companies (plus a few more) that I've bought laptops from in the last decade. In addition in every case I've bought several from each company with the exception of my two favorites, Apple as fav #1 & Lenovo as number #2, in which case I've purchased _many_ from those two.

It's not just Apple, but an industry practice to replace a problem unit with a "Service or Refurbished" unit. So that's fact number one. Second is that I've found them to be every bit as good as new stock. Yes, I'm not fond of the practice but it is what it is.

Third, I've found that when I either call in, or in the case of Apple, visit a store. If I'm pleasant, have a smile and a greeting for the person that is there to help me, I've _always enjoyed great service. They've even allowed me an override and given me a new unit because I was pleasant and did not jump on them. Anyone can do this. I've seen it happen. Their is no substitute for leaving anger out of the conversation. It's a wasted emotion that only makes things worse.

mosx
Nov 21, 2010, 07:37 PM
Why would I bother? The evidence is all over this site. There's just no reason to rehash it.

What evidence would that be? That Apple's fans are happy paying 2-3x more than they should for the same hardware? That they somehow think $2800 for a dual core notebook with low-end graphics is somehow a good deal?

That they're perfectly happy with the fact that they have to buy an extended warranty with a computer and EXPECT to use it multiple times throughout the systems life?

Like I said before, only in the world of Apple is it acceptable for hardware to fail and a company to have to repair it regularly.

Dell used to do what Apple does now. Sell low quality failing hardware and replace it whenever a customer has a problem. What happened to Dell? Brand loyalty plummeted and they've been sued multiple times as a result. What do Apple fans do in the same situation? Smile and take it because they've somehow convinced themselves that what they're getting is better.

I'll ask you this. How do you explain record sales of Macs virtually every quarter and Apple's record earnings?

Record sales of Macs? Well, when you're at the bottom the only way to go is UP. And like I said, there are people out there that are more concerned with fashion accessories than computers being actual tools. Which leads to the next point..

Apple's record earnings are the result of them overcharging for products and people paying for them. Not because their products are better because Apple is doing something right, other than screwing people over.

There is no way any logically thinking person could say a $2,000 dual core Core i5 MacBook Pro is better than a $850 PC that has a significantly more powerful CPU, more RAM, more HDD space, more powerful GPU than any shipping Mac, etc.

Consumer Reports #1 for computers for several years now?

When was the last time Consumer Reports had any credibility? Let's not forget that they're the major source of nonsense behind "antennagate"

Why do large institutions and hedge funds hold AAPL if it's so over valued?

Isn't the whole point of buying stocks to earn money?

It's not just Apple, but an industry practice to replace a problem unit with a "Service or Refurbished" unit. So that's fact number one. Second is that I've found them to be every bit as good as new stock. Yes, I'm not fond of the practice but it is what it is.

As I said, I was assured by the Apple store employee that I would be receiving a NEW replacement through mail-in service the same way I would have in store.

Not only that, but in the past when I needed service from HP, I received new parts with build dates that were within days of myself ordering them and they shipped from the countries they were made in.

Third, I've found that when I either call in, or in the case of Apple, visit a store. If I'm pleasant, have a smile and a greeting for the person that is there to help me, I've _always enjoyed great service. They've even allowed me an override and given me a new unit because I was pleasant and did not jump on them. Anyone can do this. I've seen it happen. Their is no substitute for leaving anger out of the conversation. It's a wasted emotion that only makes things worse.

As I said before, I did visit the Apple store. Its a 3 hour round trip there and back. I got there and the employee was in the process of swapping the iPod out with a new one when he saw they had no stock. He assured me that I would be getting a new one if I did mail-in service, so I agreed to do it that way. That is the ONLY reason I agreed to do it that way.

And, again, as I said before, I visited the Apple store and had to go to the UPS store after spending time on the phone setting up the mail-in repair. I literally lost an entire day because of Apple's poor build quality. And what are they doing as a result? Trying to pawn off a refurbished unit for the same cost as new.

aristobrat
Nov 21, 2010, 08:15 PM
I get the replacement. The person thats been helping me informs me its a "service unit" and refurbished, not new. Great.

I paid for a new unit. I specifically bought a new unit because I wanted it new, not refurbished. On top of that, I did mail in service because I was assured that I would get a new replacement. So this is, in a sense, a bait and and switch..
Bait and switch?

You seem to be under the impression that if you had waited around for the Genius Bar to get replacements in, you would have been issued a brand-new one, but instead you were "tricked" to mail your iPod in, and because you mailed it in, you were mailed a refurbished one back.

That impression is false. Replacements are replacements. Some are brand-new, but the vast majority of them are refurbished. Having your repair done at the Genius Bar vs. AppleCare doesn't change your odds one bit in regards to what you're going to receive. Genius Bars do not only issue brand-new replacements.

Apple's refurbs comes with a 100% brand-new exterior shell and a 100% brand-new battery. You couldn't visually distinguish it from a brand new one. And as you experienced, getting a "retail new" unit is hardly any guarantee that its quality is perfect.

The employee you dealt with gave you bad information. You should call back the store and speak to a manager so the employee can be corrected.

wordoflife
Nov 21, 2010, 09:39 PM
Actually, I would say most people feel they don't get what they pay for with Apple products.

Cool, whats your source? Give some factual information, because otherwise, it doesn't really matter what you say when you speak for a whole.

Thats why worldwide Mac market share is still very low single digits.

I disagree. There are many reasons why people don't buy a Mac.

In the past, when I would actually recommend Apple products, everyone from technically challenged to those that cared more about style and design than functionality would look at the specs of a PC versus a Mac and say the same thing "but this PC costs way less and I get a lot more!".

Macs are reliable. A Mac laptop from 2003-04 is still good today.
Also, do you think your the smartest person in the world? Mac users arent stupid. They don't buy computers just for looks.

You absolutely don't get what you pay for with a Mac. For $2,000 what do you get in a MacBook Pro? An expensive fashion accessory that isn't anywhere near as powerful, capable, or useful as PCs costing less than half as much. For $1,000, what do you get? A system that is only as powerful as what you can get at Walmart for half as much, and significantly less powerful than a PC costing the same amount.

For $1000 bucks, I got a
-thin laptop
-fast
-sturdy
-excellent battery (in terms of battery life and longevity)
-runs cool
-has OS X (the main reason for buying an Apple computer. People who buy Macs aren't idiots. They value OS X and are willing to pay for it)
- superior build quality

Hell, theres too many to list. My Macbook Pro is the best laptop ive ever used and it has things i want that other companies don't have

Right now, the only two products that Apple sells that are priced appropriately and you get your moneys worth for would be the iPhone 4 and iPod touch. Though with the iPhone 4, you have to take into account service costs. And thats a whole other debate there.

Don't even get started with this.

The fact of the matter is that you don't get what you pay for with nearly all Apple products. They're shiny fashion accessories that focus more on luring you in with pretty design than actually being powerful tools that can help you be productive or make your life easier or more enjoyable.

That's what you think. Not everyone is buying their computer for looks, if you didn't know that. Sorry if you did.

Apple truly has become the Bose of computing. Overpriced products that are poorly built, living on a brand name that will diminish with time if they don't get their act together.

I don't think that Apple products are poorly built. You've probably never owned anything but an Apple product if you say that.

Like all products, there are faults. Don't expect everything to be perfect.

Apple might be the largest technology company in the world right now. But thats only because of two reasons. One being a hyper inflated stock price. The other being the fact that their hardware is built the cheapest way possible and sold for several times more than its actually worth. The Apple bubble will burst at some point in the future.

I don't even know what the hell this is about. Either way, people buy their products because they like them. They don't do a background analysis of a company and buy accordingly ... which is what you seem to do.

There is a reason I bolded what I wrote in my last post. If you don't like their products, don't buy them.
If you value specs, sure, go for something else. If you value software, then go for something else. Only you can decide what specs or software you want, and you can narrow down what you prefer in a computer.
Honestly, what is your point? everyone has different tastes/opinions.

mosx
Nov 21, 2010, 11:55 PM
You seem to be under the impression that if you had waited around for the Genius Bar to get replacements in, you would have been issued a brand-new one, but instead you were "tricked" to mail your iPod in, and because you mailed it in, you were mailed a refurbished one back.

That impression is false.

Do I have to repeat myself again?

The Genius, if you can call them that, specifically told me that I would be receiving a new unit in the store. When he started the swap process I asked him if it would be brand new or refurbished. He said brand new. When he saw there was no stock and suggested mail-in or him ordering, I asked if mail-in would still give me a brand new unit, not refurbished, he said yes.

Replacements are replacements. Some are brand-new, but the vast majority of them are refurbished. Having your repair done at the Genius Bar vs. AppleCare doesn't change your odds one bit in regards to what you're going to receive. Genius Bars do not only issue brand-new replacements.

Again, the person helping me specifically stated I would be getting a brand new replacement. Whether it happened in store or mail-in.

Apple's refurbs comes with a 100% brand-new exterior shell and a 100% brand-new battery. You couldn't visually distinguish it from a brand new one. And as you experienced, getting a "retail new" unit is hardly any guarantee that its quality is perfect.

Anything with Apple is not guaranteed to be perfect!

However, I paid for new. I want new.

The employee you dealt with gave you bad information. You should call back the store and speak to a manager so the employee can be corrected.

I don't care about correcting the employee. I paid $168 for a device, after taxes, that should have been priced more about $75. I want what i paid for or a refund.

you should have bought the Touch ... all this spewing over Nano

Have an iPhone 4. Needed something small for active use.

Cool, whats your source? Give some factual information, because otherwise, it doesn't really matter what you say when you speak for a whole.

Look at sales. Macs are still single digits and Android is taking over iOS.

I disagree. There are many reasons why people don't buy a Mac.

Including COST and the fact that you get significantly less hardware, less capable hardware, and almost no upgrade path.

Macs are reliable. A Mac laptop from 2003-04 is still good today.

How? A 2003-2004 iBook would have had a G4 800MHz, 256MB of RAM (limited to just over 1GB upgrade), a 30GB HDD, a CD writer, and a Radeon 9200 32MB. And it would have sold for $1100. A PowerBook from 2003-2004 would have had a G4 1GHz, 256MB of RAM (upgradeable to 2GB), a CD writer with a DVD writer being an extremely expensive upgrade, and a 60GB HDD. And it would have cost $2,000.

The fact that anything from Apple pre-2006 uses PPC architecture means it is obsolete. Apple has abandon support for the architecture and none of their new software releases even support that architecture any more. Before you know it, 3rd party browsers won't even support PPC.

Let's not forget the upgrade paths for those systems. The last generation of iBook was only upgradeable to 1.5GB. Good luck upgrading the HDD, unless you like performing full system surgery on it.

What did you get in 2003/2004 from a PC? $1300 would have gotten you an Athlon 64 2GHz or Pentium M 2GHz, Radeon Mobile 9700 with 128MB of RAM, DVD writer standard, 60GB standard, 512GB to 1GB of RAM, etc.

Also, do you think your the smartest person in the world? Mac users arent stupid. They don't buy computers just for looks.

Well, you certainly don't buy a Mac for horsepower. Not when a $1500 desktop system comes with a dual core Core i3.

For $1000 bucks, I got a
-thin laptop

Thin? So? Thin also means poor cooling system, which means a hotter system on your lap and lower quality internal components that run cooler.

And so what about thin? When my laptop leaves the house its in a case. I'm not carrying it by its own body.

-fast

Core 2 Duo and GeForce 320M? Fast in 2006 maybe. $1,000 in the PC world will get you a dedicated GPU faster than anything in any shipping Mac as well as a true quad core 8 thread Core i7.

-sturdy

Soft metals that scratch, bend, warp, etc. aren't exactly "Sturdy".

-excellent battery (in terms of battery life and longevity)

The only positive thing about Apple's systems would be the battery life. However, that comes as a result of having extremely low end hardware, by modern standards. Theres also a lot of shortcuts taken to get to that point, like down clocking the GPU a lot. However, my HP in 2007 had better battery life than my Mac in 2008 thanks to double capacity batteries and user replaceable batteries. I had 10 hours of battery life across two batteries while Macs didn't even have 4 hours real world.

Longevity? Thats debatable. The batteries on my HP are still original and still reporting 98% capacity. My MacBook's battery was not even a year and a half old when it swelled up and died while supposedly at 98% health itself and less than 200 cycles.

-runs cool

Runs cool? Depends on your definition of cool. My HP has a Merom based Core 2 Duo at 2GHz and my Mac has a Penryn Core 2 Duo at 2GHz. Technically, the Penryn should run cooler and use less energy. Oh the HP has a dedicated nvidia GPU as well. The HP runs an average 30-40F cooler under load and idle and while playing games compared to the Mac, thanks to Apple's poor cooling design and focus on being thin rather than useful.

-has OS X (the main reason for buying an Apple computer. People who buy Macs aren't idiots. They value OS X and are willing to pay for it)

I bought my first Mac nearly 4 years ago for OS X. In that four years, going from Tiger to Snow Leopard now, I see absolutely no benefit in OS X compared to Windows. None. I can think of a lot of things that Windows can do that OS X can't, like proper video decoding and blu-ray playback. But I honestly cannot think of a single thing that OS X can do that Windows cannot. I can think of things Windows does better. But I can't think of anything OS X does better.

- superior build quality

Don't make me laugh. There is NOTHING better about the build quality of a Mac compared to a PC. The plastic Macs have all kinds of issues with cracking, discoloration, and other failures.

Go and compare the MacBook "Pro" to the actual professional lines from HP and Dell. Those things are built like tanks. You don't have to worry about setting it down hard denting it, or heat warping it. Or a non-user replaceable battery swelling up.

Those systems also tend to come with 3 year warranties as standard as well as on-site service and accidental damage coverage.

Don't even get started with this.

Explain to me how a $999 plastic MacBook that will crack and discolor and comes with a 4 year old processor architecture, 2GB of RAM, and integrated graphics is somehow priced appropriately against a $999 PC that will have a quad core 8 thread CPU, dedicated graphics, 2-3x the RAM, blu-ray, larger screens, etc.

That's what you think. Not everyone is buying their computer for looks, if you didn't know that. Sorry if you did.

Well, why would you honestly buy a Mac? I can think of no good reason other than developing iOS apps. In that case, a Mac mini will be just fine.

I don't think that Apple products are poorly built. You've probably never owned anything but an Apple product if you say that.

I've owned several notebook PCs. Including that $1300 one I mentioned earlier.

Like all products, there are faults. Don't expect everything to be perfect.

When I pay 2-3x what a product is actually worth, I expect it to be perfect.

Honestly, what is your point? everyone has different tastes/opinions.

Again, to show people what Apple really does when you have an issue.

santaliqueur
Nov 22, 2010, 12:41 AM
Apple makes more than plastic notebooks, right? Just asking, since that's the only machine you seem willing to mention.

You're right, and everyone else who opposes you is wrong. Will you go away now?

flyfish29
Nov 22, 2010, 12:50 AM
In my 20 years of owning Apple products I have had nothing but fantastic service from my Apple warranties.

I had a performa back in the day which had an issue, was fixed right up in the store where I bought it and took several days and no cost to me.

I had a hard drive in my current MBP go bad- the local store fixed it right up in three days- no cost!

I had an iMac which was shipped to me as a refurbished but obviously didn't get refurbished. They shipped another refurb out that say day and told me to just ship mine back as soon as I could. No cost to me, only a little hassle for a few days being without my new iMac...er I mean refurb. iMac.

I used Apple live support customer service the other day for Mobile Me support and the guy stayed on the live support chat session for 28 minutes working on my problem and solved my problem (and solved another one while he was at it.)

So while Apple's computers have not been perfect and they have made their mistakes, I am one of those Consumer Reports readers who said their customer service is #1!!

Clearly the OP has terrible luck when it comes to consumer products and their reliability!!

mosx
Nov 22, 2010, 01:02 AM
Apple makes more than plastic notebooks, right? Just asking, since that's the only machine you seem willing to mention

You obviously didn't read all of my posts then. I mentioned plenty. Yellow iMac screens, rusting titanium PowerBooks, warping PowerBooks/MacBook Pros, battery swelling, easily scratched/dented/warped current generation MacBook Pros.

In my 20 years of owning Apple products I have had nothing but fantastic service from my Apple warranties.

I had a performa back in the day which had an issue, was fixed right up in the store where I bought it and took several days and no cost to me.

This is the point I made earlier. Somehow Apple fans think its great that they have to take their system in and leave it for days. A well built system will not need to be taken in.

I had a hard drive in my current MBP go bad- the local store fixed it right up in three days- no cost!

Wow, a WHOLE three days? Again, why is it such a good thing that you had to do it to begin with and it took so long? A PC manufacturer would have sent me the HDD overnight and I could have popped it in myself and been up and running two days before you.

I had an iMac which was shipped to me as a refurbished but obviously didn't get refurbished. They shipped another refurb out that say day and told me to just ship mine back as soon as I could. No cost to me, only a little hassle for a few days being without my new iMac...er I mean refurb. iMac.

Heh, and this points out one of the many bad things about Apple products. If something goes wrong in a computer, you have to live without the entire thing for days. But a desktop PC? You can be back up and running within hours.

blackburn
Nov 22, 2010, 01:40 AM
A pc manufacturer (hp) even got my laptop worse.
HDD failed (bought a new one, warranty didn't cover 3rd party damage (yeah right)).
Laptop failed, new logic board, under warranty. Laptop all scratched (hp said that wasn't their fault).
Logic board failed again. Out of warranty. 900eur machine -> trash

And those so called profissional laptops are expensive as hell, and they are heavy. I've bought an macbook (they are way to expensive comparing to regular pc's, it's true) because it's light and it runs way more cooler than my old hp. Now forget about performance.
If you want to have the latest gimmicks forget apple.
My macbook is in for repairs. Hopping to have a better service like I had with an ipod nano 2Gen (hanged a lot, got my money back

NOT dealing with windows and it's crazy madness of windows update and calling ms for activating products = priceless. Even compiling files I had problems (like permission denied). I deleted files and ms windows just would make them reaper (exe / zip files). So YMMV

mosx
Nov 22, 2010, 01:59 AM
A pc manufacturer (hp) even got my laptop worse.
HDD failed (bought a new one, warranty didn't cover 3rd party damage (yeah right)).
Laptop failed, new logic board, under warranty. Laptop all scratched (hp said that wasn't their fault).
Logic board failed again. Out of warranty. 900eur machine -> trash

Apple would have done the same thing as far as denying service out of warranty.

HP would have given you a new HDD, so I don't know about that.

And in my experience, HP just didn't get the repairs right because the person who set up the repair kept doing it wrong. My Macs came back looking like they had been dragged across the asphalt. My HP just came back not fixed with a couple of minor scuffs. Nothing in the league of Apple's belt sander repairs. Or warped case repairs that block the optical drive.

And those so called profissional laptops are expensive as hell, and they are heavy

No more expensive than a MacBook Pro of the same screen size.

Heavy? Computer goes in a bag that goes on your back. How is 6 pounds heavy these days when laptops used to weigh twice that 10 years ago.

it runs way more cooler than my old hp.

Why do people seem to equate less fan noise with running cooler? The Core 2 Duo 2GHz Penryn in my MacBook is idling at 142F/61c. The Core 2 Duo 2GHz Merom in my HP is idling at 89F/31c. Thats a very significant difference. My HP runs significantly cooler.

NOT dealing with windows and it's crazy madness of windows update and calling ms for activating products = priceless.

What madness of updates? I have to update my Mac just as often as my PC. If I do a fresh install of Snow Leopard right now, theres nearly 2GB worth of updates waiting for me. With Windows its less than half that much.

I've never had to call MS to activate Windows. I type in the number and hit activate in Windows and it does so over the internet. It's done. Thats it. Been that way from XP through Vista now to Windows 7.

Even compiling files I had problems (like permission denied)

User error.

I deleted files and ms windows just would make them reaper (exe / zip files). So YMMV

Also user error.

santaliqueur
Nov 22, 2010, 02:04 AM
So the OP continues to hang onto his Apple products, only to be able to complain about them in the forums?

Easily warped current generation MBPs? I want some of what you're smoking. Even if you don't like the components or OS, the build is more solid than any other machine out there.

Mr. OP, why don't you rid yourself of all your Apple products? They hold excellent resale value, and as you say, you could pick up much more computing power for your dollar. What's holding you back? The attention you are getting at these forums? I'm surprised we are feeding you here. Usually people like you are ignored.

gnasher729
Nov 22, 2010, 04:27 AM
So my 7 week old iPod nano died. Same stuck sleep/wake button that seems to be affecting a lot of people.

I went to the Apple store to have it replaced. Halfway through the process the guy says they have no stock of it and it can't be swapped. I'd have to mail it in. He assures me that the mail in service would give me a new unit the same as he would have.

So I set up the repair. Send it in. It takes two days longer than it should have because the person at the call center typed the serial number in wrong. Lovely.

I get the replacement. The person thats been helping me informs me its a "service unit" and refurbished, not new. Great.

I paid for a new unit. I specifically bought a new unit because I wanted it new, not refurbished. On top of that, I did mail in service because I was assured that I would get a new replacement. So this is, in a sense, a bait and and switch.

Now I have more fun to deal with getting them to honor their employees word and obey the law regarding bait and switch with merchandise.

After this, the swelling battery in my MacBook they refused to replace even though its a manufacturer defect and a design flaw, and all of the other experiences I've had with Apple, I'm done. No more Apple products for me. I won't even buy apps from the app store any more.

From this and from many other posts of yours on MacRumors, I get the impression that you are quite a confrontational person. And it seems that you haven't learned yet that in many situations, being confrontational doesn't get you the results that you want. What also doesn't help is making claims like this "bait and switch" which is obvious nonsense, and will surely convince anyone that has the pleasure to deal with you to do their best to _not_ help you if there is any way they can avoid it. Some people get swollen batteries replaced without problems, others don't. You should look in the mirror and ask yourself why you were in the "others" category.

Just have a look at the responses in this thread. The same situation, described in different words, would have got you sympathy, support, perhaps help. Instead you got attacked, got the advise to sell your Macs and not bother people on this site anymore. I tell you, this is not coincidence. If you go in for a fight, you get a fight. If that is what you want, you sadly succeeded. If you want results, you have to change your strategy.

blackburn
Nov 22, 2010, 04:43 AM
My hp idled at 70ºC, so my macbook at 37ºC certainly is way cooler than the hp crapbook that I owned before. I've got my warranty voided when I swap the lcd panel that the hp support scratched.

Try reinstalling windows a few times. Or office. And not user error. I've had it with pc's. In programming courses they always gave trouble to anyone who tried to use them. And it's not a user error. Go google. Many people share the same people.
At least in mac os x I can install an combo update and I don't have to loose that much time.

Go call others stupid. But I've been servicing windows machines for years. I get paid to repair the crap that ms does. So don't tell me that's user error.

Everybody knows that apple is expensive. Get over it. They sell expensive machines that have trouble like all the others. And when my hp laptop broke I've had to buy an eee pc to use in university because I had to wait 2 weeks to swap a motherboard.

Of course everybody wants premium service from apple since they are expensive. But it depends on your luck. I've had sony / hp / asus / dell / toshiba for repairs. And hardrives fail. Apple ones aren't special.

If you where complaining that imacs overheat and they shouldn't you would be right. Not defending crap books. Good luck with that one.

Windows 7 clean install with nvidia drivers turns off my lcd every-time that I insert an usb pen drive. So what? To bad that ms doesn't control the hardware or the drivers. They signed an bugged driver.

aussieinjapan
Nov 22, 2010, 08:13 AM
Is the thread starter trying to piss people off ??? So you've had problems with Apple - just buy what you want.

I loved my Sony bravia 32" until the screen went all purple. Sony came and replaced the screen in my house (yes, this is Japan). Now, when it starts up, the screen is flickering...

So Im not going to get a Sony next time. Maybe a Toshiba or even an LG (they just started selling them here in Japan again).

Problem solved

Keebler
Nov 22, 2010, 09:34 AM
Hi MacOsx,

I think you just have had crap luck unfortunately.

You said your post was to inform people what Apple's warranty is really like and unfortunately for you, I can see how you'd be frustrated, but I don't believe your case is the baseline for how their warranty and service performs.

For me, our house has 6 Macs, 1 iPad, 1 iPhone, 2 ipod shuffles and an old 3rd gen iPod (the ol' white brick).

I've had my share of issues - 4 in total and each time, Apple has completely honoured Applecare and/or their warranty to my satisfaction.

I know there will be other people like you and other people like me, sharing similar experiences.

It's too bad you've had those issues, but I just wanted to share a glimmer of hope from my positive ones.

Good luck,
Keebler

blackburn
Nov 22, 2010, 10:12 AM
I can only say that apple service is excellent. Tomorrow I'm going to pick up my macbook with a new bottom plate because the old one warped (and I had the option of keeping the macbook with me while the bottom plate arrives to the store).
mosx is just bashing apple.
Some times we get bad luck with an brand, but that doesn't mean we have to go and bash it.
Some days we get lucky other days we don't. If you think apple service sucks. You should have seen sony with my mp3 player (5 months and they decided they couldn't fixed it and gave my money back).

You can always buy another brand of whatever you want.

czeluff
Nov 22, 2010, 02:15 PM
yeah, sorry you've had bad luck dude. I've had 3 MBP's, a Blackbook, a Macbook Air, every iPhone, an iPad, and a 24" iMac, and I've had a problem or two, but each one was met with a sincere Genius who apologized for my troubles and took excellent care of me.

Maybe you're just better off in the hands of Dell or HP.

mosx
Nov 22, 2010, 04:05 PM
Easily warped current generation MBPs? I want some of what you're smoking. Even if you don't like the components or OS, the build is more solid than any other machine out there.

Built more solid than what? Theres nothing "more solid" about my unibody aluminum MacBook than my plastic HP. Except maybe the fact that if I bump the MacBook into something it will dent while nothing will happen to the HP.

Mr. OP, why don't you rid yourself of all your Apple products? They hold excellent resale value, and as you say, you could pick up much more computing power for your dollar. What's holding you back? The attention you are getting at these forums?

Tried selling them before. My post on the marketplace might still be there. Everyone here wants to use PayPal and I don't use them for my own protection and out of principle. That leaves local sales only, and people around here are too smart to buy Apple products at used prices. So these days I keep the Apple logo on my MacBook covered and mostly run Windows 7 on it.

I get the impression that you are quite a confrontational person.

Only after someone tries to screw me over.

Some people get swollen batteries replaced without problems, others don't. You should look in the mirror and ask yourself why you were in the "others" category.

Maybe you should learn to not post without knowing all of the facts.

When I contacted Apple about my battery I was very polite, very easy going, and not "confrontational" at all until after they had told me multiple times there was nothing they could do about it.

Just have a look at the responses in this thread. The same situation, described in different words, would have got you sympathy, support, perhaps help. Instead you got attacked

Because people around here don't like hearing the truth about Apple.

My hp idled at 70ºC, so my macbook at 37ºC certainly is way cooler than the hp crapbook that I owned before. I've got my warranty voided when I swap the lcd panel that the hp support scratched.

Idled at 70c? I don't think so. You're not being honest there or your fan was dying. I've never had a non-Apple computer reach a temperature that high idling or under load.

As far as your LCD is concerned, blame your countries laws. Here in the US, no company could legally void your warranty because of that.

For instance, if I swapped the LCD on a new 13" MacBook Pro for one of those TechRestore matte displays, Apple would still legally have to honor the warranty on the rest of the system under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. They wouldn't have to honor display issues, but they would absolutely have to honor the warranty on the rest of the system.

Try reinstalling windows a few times. Or office. And not user error. I've had it with pc's. In programming courses they always gave trouble to anyone who tried to use them. And it's not a user error. Go google. Many people share the same people.

I've been running Windows for the better portion of 2 decades now. And OS X for 4 years. I've seen OS X go berserk more in the last 4 years than I ever had problems with Windows. Tiger, 10.4.8, was the first time I had seen a computer fully lock up and become unresponsive since the 90s.

At least in mac os x I can install an combo update and I don't have to loose that much time.

A combo update for OS X is bigger than all current Windows 7 patches combined.

Go call others stupid. But I've been servicing windows machines for years. I get paid to repair the crap that ms does. So don't tell me that's user error.

I get paid to repair computers as well. With the exception of hardware failure, every single software issue I've ever seen in Windows is the result of user error. However, with OS X, all I ever encounter are issues caused by the OS itself. I mean, how stupid is it that your wireless networking can just disappear? That happened to me once and I've seen it happen to others. In OS X my wireless adapter just completely disappeared. It worked in Windows on the same machine. Thats how I was able to get online and find the solution. But in OS X it was gone.

Windows 7 clean install with nvidia drivers turns off my lcd every-time that I insert an usb pen drive. So what? To bad that ms doesn't control the hardware or the drivers. They signed an bugged driver.

Thats a hardware issue. Not drivers. Doesn't happen to me or anyone else I know with Windows 7 and an nvidia GPU running the latest drivers.

Basically, mosx isn't looking for a solution -- he simply enjoys stirring up the pot on MacRumors.

Nope. I point out how Apple really is. And the fans don't like to hear it.

Below is a post from the OP from slightly over THREE YEARS ago. Sound familiar?

I wasn't the only one who had those issues. There were threads at Apple's own support site that were hundreds upon hundreds of pages in length regarding the 3G iPod nano tilted screen as well as Apple screwing people over on iPod games.

I think the kids today call it…

How? He showed that I like to point out the truth about Apple. So what?

I've had my share of issues - 4 in total and each time, Apple has completely honoured Applecare and/or their warranty to my satisfaction.

It depends on your definition of satisfied. Some people are "satisfied" having to send their system in multiple times for repair. I'm not. If I buy something that costs significantly more than it should, like an Apple product, I expect it to be of stellar quality. If something does go wrong, I expect nothing but the best warranty service. If I'm told one thing and another thing happens, thats not satisfactory. At all.

You should have seen sony with my mp3 player (5 months and they decided they couldn't fixed it and gave my money back).

Hows that bad? Sony did the right thing and refunded your money. Apple will continue to push repairs and refurbished replacements until they are legally required to give you a refund.

It's exactly this type of petty childish behaviour that gives some Americans a bad name.

And making such a comment completely destroys any credibility you might have had.

I don't believe for one second half of the alleged complaints from the OP and it seems quite clear that it's just another trolling post about how great PC's are.

You're free to believe whatever you want. I have better things to do than lie about these things.

But for the OP, please never, ever, ever buy another Apple product, we'll all be much happier.

I won't be. And thanks to whats happened and me telling people my HONEST story, Apple has already lost about 50 sales for various items.

Ha, you nailed it; this isn't a customer who had bad luck or was ripped off, it's someone who trolls around on forums trying to stir up an argument

Nope. Its someone telling an honest story painting a real picture of Apple that fans get all upset when they hear it.

I wonder if microsoft would give you a new Zune if the product breaks under warranty.

From what I've read, they do. Let's not forget that Microsoft actually started feature updating the Zune through firmware updates back when Apple was refusing to back-port new features to old hardware, before the iPod touch was released. Apple's excuse was "Accounting" or "if you want new features you need to buy the new product" while Microsoft was giving Zune owners new features with every update.

If a product breaks and the manufacturer rectifies the problem by giving a replacement that is functionally identical, then I don't see that as a big problem.

Its a big problem if its used and I paid for new. I didn't buy used. I bought new.

At this point I would absolutely LOVE for Apple to give me a refund. I don't want this thing any more.

wordoflife
Nov 22, 2010, 05:09 PM
Do I have to repeat myself again?

The Genius, if you can call them that, specifically told me that I would be receiving a new unit in the store. When he started the swap process I asked him if it would be brand new or refurbished. He said brand new. When he saw there was no stock and suggested mail-in or him ordering, I asked if mail-in would still give me a brand new unit, not refurbished, he said yes.



[QUOTE]Again, the person helping me specifically stated I would be getting a brand new replacement. Whether it happened in store or mail-in.

Fair enough, but accept that he made a mistake, and move on with your life. If you want this to hold you back, then fine ... I don't care.



Anything with Apple is not guaranteed to be perfect!

However, I paid for new. I want new.

To be fair, you broke your nano. If you hadn't had touched it, then the button wouldn't have gotten messed up. Obviously, thats not the point, but do you see my point?



I don't care about correcting the employee. I paid $168 for a device, after taxes, that should have been priced more about $75. I want what i paid for or a refund.

If you thought it was worth $75, then you shouldn't have bought it. Your fault for "overpaying"



Look at sales. Macs are still single digits and Android is taking over iOS.

And that describes why people don't buy Macs?



Including COST and the fact that you get significantly less hardware, less capable hardware, and almost no upgrade path.


There are more reasons to why people buy/do not buy Macs. Do you want me to explain?

How? A 2003-2004 iBook would have had a G4 800MHz, 256MB of RAM (limited to just over 1GB upgrade), a 30GB HDD, a CD writer, and a Radeon 9200 32MB. And it would have sold for $1100. A PowerBook from 2003-2004 would have had a G4 1GHz, 256MB of RAM (upgradeable to 2GB), a CD writer with a DVD writer being an extremely expensive upgrade, and a 60GB HDD. And it would have cost $2,000.

The fact that anything from Apple pre-2006 uses PPC architecture means it is obsolete. Apple has abandon support for the architecture and none of their new software releases even support that architecture any more. Before you know it, 3rd party browsers won't even support PPC.

Let's not forget the upgrade paths for those systems. The last generation of iBook was only upgradeable to 1.5GB. Good luck upgrading the HDD, unless you like performing full system surgery on it.

Some people don't value upgrades or higher specs (as you posted) so they may decide to buy a Mac. Some people value specs and upgrades, so they buy accordingly. There is nothing wrong with buying a Windows computer.

What did you get in 2003/2004 from a PC? $1300 would have gotten you an Athlon 64 2GHz or Pentium M 2GHz, Radeon Mobile 9700 with 128MB of RAM, DVD writer standard, 60GB standard, 512GB to 1GB of RAM, etc.


People who love Apple would argue "Look what you didn't get".
In other words, no one cares what you could have gotten, its a personal preference.



Well, you certainly don't buy a Mac for horsepower. Not when a $1500 desktop system comes with a dual core Core i3.

If you value specs, then a Mac isn't for you. If you don't like it, then don't buy it.

I don't care about specs. I care about overall performance ... and the Mac seems to do better in that aspect for me.


Thin? So? Thin also means poor cooling system, which means a hotter system on your lap and lower quality internal components that run cooler.

No, I meant thin as in thin. I couldn't find a thinner laptop for the price, with the same features (or more features) than a Macbook Pro.

And so what about thin? When my laptop leaves the house its in a case. I'm not carrying it by its own body.

I care about thin. Obviously, the preference of thinness matters differently to both you and I ... but for people who value it, a Macbook Pro is a good consideration.



Core 2 Duo and GeForce 320M? Fast in 2006 maybe. $1,000 in the PC world will get you a dedicated GPU faster than anything in any shipping Mac as well as a true quad core 8 thread Core i7.

No one forced you to buy your computer. You saw all of this coming when buying a computer.

Soft metals that scratch, bend, warp, etc. aren't exactly "Sturdy".

Would you please recommend a better laptop to me? (preferably NOT with Windows)


The only positive thing about Apple's systems would be the battery life. However, that comes as a result of having extremely low end hardware, by modern standards. Theres also a lot of shortcuts taken to get to that point, like down clocking the GPU a lot. However, my HP in 2007 had better battery life than my Mac in 2008 thanks to double capacity batteries and user replaceable batteries. I had 10 hours of battery life across two batteries while Macs didn't even have 4 hours real world.

Okay then, go buy an HP. No one here cares what computer you have.
And by the way, who are you kidding with "extremely low end hardware by modern standards". Thats a joke. I know you can get better stuff, but really, what you posted is rubbish.

Longevity? Thats debatable. The batteries on my HP are still original and still reporting 98% capacity. My MacBook's battery was not even a year and a half old when it swelled up and died while supposedly at 98% health itself and less than 200 cycles.

Good for you.



Runs cool? Depends on your definition of cool. My HP has a Merom based Core 2 Duo at 2GHz and my Mac has a Penryn Core 2 Duo at 2GHz. Technically, the Penryn should run cooler and use less energy. Oh the HP has a dedicated nvidia GPU as well. The HP runs an average 30-40F cooler under load and idle and while playing games compared to the Mac, thanks to Apple's poor cooling design and focus on being thin rather than useful.


I don't care how hot my computer is inside. I just don't want it burning my lap after 20 minutes.


I bought my first Mac nearly 4 years ago for OS X. In that four years, going from Tiger to Snow Leopard now, I see absolutely no benefit in OS X compared to Windows. None. I can think of a lot of things that Windows can do that OS X can't, like proper video decoding and blu-ray playback. But I honestly cannot think of a single thing that OS X can do that Windows cannot. I can think of things Windows does better. But I can't think of anything OS X does better.

Some people do value OS X over Windows. If you don't, then okay.. go buy a PC. It doesn't really matter ... its just a computer.


Don't make me laugh. There is NOTHING better about the build quality of a Mac compared to a PC. The plastic Macs have all kinds of issues with cracking, discoloration, and other failures.

Build quality is superior in my opinion. When I pick my Mac off the table, I don't hear creaking and other random noises. Also, it doesn't have 20 different holes in the back for ventilation and what not. I couldn't find something similar to the MBP in the PC market

Go and compare the MacBook "Pro" to the actual professional lines from HP and Dell. Those things are built like tanks. You don't have to worry about setting it down hard denting it, or heat warping it. Or a non-user replaceable battery swelling up.
There is nothing to compare the MBP with an HP or Dell. They are completely different computers ... for completely different computer users.




Explain to me how a $999 plastic MacBook that will crack and discolor and comes with a 4 year old processor architecture, 2GB of RAM, and integrated graphics is somehow priced appropriately against a $999 PC that will have a quad core 8 thread CPU, dedicated graphics, 2-3x the RAM, blu-ray, larger screens, etc.

I'm not sure what you are asking or saying here.


Well, why would you honestly buy a Mac?
I already told you, and people like the actual operating system.


I've owned several notebook PCs. Including that $1300 one I mentioned earlier.

Me too


When I pay 2-3x what a product is actually worth, I expect it to be perfect.
Well, that's your fault.

blackburn
Nov 22, 2010, 05:27 PM
Idled at 70c? I don't think so. You're not being honest there or your fan was dying. I've never had a non-Apple computer reach a temperature that high idling or under load.


The temperature thing was the hp dv5 series in 2008 (google lots of people complaining of it overheating)


As far as your LCD is concerned, blame your countries laws. Here in the US, no company could legally void your warranty because of that.


Well in this country everything is an excuse to void your warranty so apple wins here, got a new bottom plate under warranty.


I've been running Windows for the better portion of 2 decades now. And OS X for 4 years. I've seen OS X go berserk more in the last 4 years than I ever had problems with Windows. Tiger, 10.4.8, was the first time I had seen a computer fully lock up and become unresponsive since the 90s.


Well today I've completely crashed windows 7 and even got a blue screen with it. I've had os x and linux also crash. But once in a blue moon.


A combo update for OS X is bigger than all current Windows 7 patches combined.


Yes their combo updates are big, but they include all languages. And they don't need previous patches installed.


I get paid to repair computers as well. With the exception of hardware failure, every single software issue I've ever seen in Windows is the result of user error. However, with OS X, all I ever encounter are issues caused by the OS itself. I mean, how stupid is it that your wireless networking can just disappear? That happened to me once and I've seen it happen to others. In OS X my wireless adapter just completely disappeared. It worked in Windows on the same machine. Thats how I was able to get online and find the solution. But in OS X it was gone.


Never had an issue with wireless even when running mac os x in the hp laptop with an broadcom card. And in windows in my university printer sharing works so well that I have to configure it every time I want to use it. With mac os x or linux I only need to configure once. (and guess what it uses smb)


Thats a hardware issue. Not drivers. Doesn't happen to me or anyone else I know with Windows 7 and an nvidia GPU running the latest drivers.


And the nvidia thing, it's definitely a bug. Doesn't happen on linux or mac os x. With 258.96 it didn't happen now with 260.xx happens all the time.

mosx
Nov 22, 2010, 07:12 PM
Fair enough, but accept that he made a mistake, and move on with your life. If you want this to hold you back, then fine ... I don't care.

Sure, maybe if the iPod had cost $50 or so. But it cost $163.53 after taxes (looking at the receipt). Thats too much money to accept a mistake.

To be fair, you broke your nano. If you hadn't had touched it, then the button wouldn't have gotten messed up. Obviously, thats not the point, but do you see my point?

Come on, thats flat out stupid. I was using it as it was intended and designed for and it died. Its happened to many others. Google is your friend in this case.

If you thought it was worth $75, then you shouldn't have bought it. Your fault for "overpaying"

Aside from the tilted screen on my 3G nano, I've never had issues with iPods. I have an almost 6 year old iPod mini 2G that still holds a full charge. And I'm a sucker for neat touch screens. It is my fault for buying it. However, Apple should have lived up to its word.

And that describes why people don't buy Macs?

Cost. Low specs for the cost. $1500 for Core i3 iMac? The only place you'll find that in the PC world is in some low-end Black Friday special at Walmart.

There are more reasons to why people buy/do not buy Macs. Do you want me to explain?

OS X? No benefit over Windows. As I said before, I can think of plenty of things Windows can do that OS X cannot. But not the other way around.

Some people don't value upgrades or higher specs (as you posted) so they may decide to buy a Mac. Some people value specs and upgrades, so they buy accordingly. There is nothing wrong with buying a Windows computer.

And what are you going to get by putting software first? Keep in mind that in a real computer, unlike a smartphone or the iPad, software is only HALF of the total equation.

People who love Apple would argue "Look what you didn't get".
In other words, no one cares what you could have gotten, its a personal preference

And I would say "look what you didn't get by buying Apple" right back at them. They got a system that cost more than that PC would have in 2003/2004 and that Mac would not be usable today. However, the PC I pointed out, with a RAM upgrade, would be fully capable of running Windows 7.

In fact, that PC would have features that Apple only made standard recently, like a DVD burner (don't forget that Apple still sold CD writers up until 2008) and card reader.

I don't care about specs. I care about overall performance ... and the Mac seems to do better in that aspect for me.

How so? You get slower processors (sometimes, significantly), slower HDDs, significantly slower GPUs. Not to mention the fact that Snow Leopard is a resource hog.

No, I meant thin as in thin. I couldn't find a thinner laptop for the price, with the same features (or more features) than a Macbook Pro.

Thats because PC manufacturers put functionality before form.

Show me a Mac with USB 3, eSATA, full size ExpressCard, HDMI with full LPCM and "HD Audio" support, modern dedicated graphics, multi-card readers, user changeable batteries, blu-ray readers and writers, proper cooling systems, etc.

I care about thin. Obviously, the preference of thinness matters differently to both you and I ... but for people who value it, a Macbook Pro is a good consideration.

There are "thin" PCs out there that are more feature complete than Macs. They just have a "wedge" shape so they're thicker at the back. But that accommodates proper cooling systems and significantly higher end components.

No one forced you to buy your computer. You saw all of this coming when buying a computer.

When I bought my Mac, I was led to believe everything Apple says about OS X being better and all that nonsense. Problems didn't start until the return window had closed.

Would you please recommend a better laptop to me? (preferably NOT with Windows)

Why not with Windows? You don't want an OS that can do EVERYTHING?

Okay then, go buy an HP. No one here cares what computer you have.
And by the way, who are you kidding with "extremely low end hardware by modern standards". Thats a joke. I know you can get better stuff, but really, what you posted is rubbish.

Core 2 Duo at $1,499 (high end 13" MBP) isn't low-end by modern standards? quad core 8 thread Core i7 have been available in PC notebooks for more than a year and a half now.

I don't care how hot my computer is inside. I just don't want it burning my lap after 20 minutes.

Then you shouldn't be using a Mac. The metal casing can get hot to the touch. If I'm encoding video in Handbrake, my Mac's case gets hot to the point where I can't touch it. My HP case, on the other hand, barely gets warm to the touch even while playing games.

Some people do value OS X over Windows.

But why? Theres no logical reason to. Theres no benefit to running OS X over Windows, except for iOS development.

Build quality is superior in my opinion. When I pick my Mac off the table, I don't hear creaking and other random noises. Also, it doesn't have 20 different holes in the back for ventilation and what not. I couldn't find something similar to the MBP in the PC market

So, lack of ventilation is somehow a good thing? It's good that your computers casing will run hotter? Its good that the internal components will run hotter and shorten their overall lifespan as a result?

I don't hear any random noises from my plastic HP either. And its older than my Mac.

There is nothing to compare the MBP with an HP or Dell. They are completely different computers ... for completely different computer users.

According to Apple, the MacBook Pro is a "Professional" machine meant to be used the same as those from Dell or HP or Lenovo's professional lines.

I'm not sure what you are asking or saying here.

Asking how the Mac is priced appropriately when compared to competitors products. Will post that again: "Explain to me how a $999 plastic MacBook that will crack and discolor and comes with a 4 year old processor architecture, 2GB of RAM, and integrated graphics is somehow priced appropriately against a $999 PC that will have a quad core 8 thread CPU, dedicated graphics, 2-3x the RAM, blu-ray, larger screens, etc."

Well, that's your fault.

So, what, I shouldn't expect my moneys worth?

The temperature thing was the hp dv5 series in 2008 (google lots of people complaining of it overheating)

I've never encountered this problem myself or with others. Sounds, again, like user error.

Well today I've completely crashed windows 7 and even got a blue screen with it. I've had os x and linux also crash. But once in a blue moon.

Bluescreen is a driver problem. I haven't seen a bluescreen since 2001. Somethings wrong with your hardware. If its on your Mac, blame Apple. Apple has terrible Windows support. The glass trackpad in the unibody systems didn't even work right in Windows until Boot Camp 3.0. Apple let that go for a full year.

Yes their combo updates are big, but they include all languages. And they don't need previous patches installed

Not true. When I recently did a fresh install of Snow Leopard there were several additional patches pushed through with the combo update.

And in windows in my university printer sharing works so well that I have to configure it every time I want to use it. With mac os x or linux I only need to configure once. (and guess what it uses smb)

Blame your University. I only had to set up my wireless printer once. It works just fine in Windows and OS X.

And the nvidia thing, it's definitely a bug. Doesn't happen on linux or mac os x. With 258.96 it didn't happen now with 260.xx happens all the time.

Doesn't happen to me. I have nvidia cards in both of my systems. Both running 260.99 on Windows 7 x64 Home Premium.

Funny how Windows 7 x64 isn't even supposed to be supported on my system, according to Apple. But if you run the installer as an admin, everything installs and works beautifully. Windows 7 x64 is faster than Snow Leopard.

Back on topic, now I need to decide what steps to take next against Apple. Even after pointing out California laws and Magnuson-Moss, and my witnesses backing up my statement about the Apple store employee guaranteeing me a new replacement, Apple will not budge on this refurbished unit. So now I need to decide on whether to take Apple to court for breaking those laws. But at the same time, I could keep it and tell people my story about it. Nothing illegal about that as long as I don't slander the company. Anti-SLAPP laws mean I can say anything about what happened as long as its honest. And I've already swayed 5 people from buying one today. So I might just do that.

wordoflife
Nov 22, 2010, 07:30 PM
What don't you get? Not everyone in the market for specs. There is no easier to explain that.

If you are unhappy with Apple, then don't buy from them. It looks like you've been unhappy them for a really long time, so just move on and stop buying their stuff. (looking at a post from you a few years ago)

Stupid if me not to realize this before, but your points are no good. I'm not going to write and comment about everything you're saying because you're just turning this into a giant pissing contest.

Just for your own sake though, and so you don't get a headache with the way Apple does things... stop buying Apple products! (you should know how Apple does things though since you've been using their products for a while)

WOW, you would really consider taking this to court and paying so much more money. Your better using the money you would use in court and the money gained by selling your iPod Nano (just make sure you write that its a refurbished model without any imperfections) and use it towards a new Zune and Dell laptop.

And1ss
Nov 22, 2010, 08:01 PM
OP, I'll agree with you that Apple may not have the perfect record at customer service, but when you use your experience to say this is the real example of Apple's customer service, then that's not fair. --> "Show people what Apple's CS truly is" How do you account for the other good experiences posted all over this site?

And besides, I don't understand the whole concept of having to buy your money's worth. If the buyer is happy with the product, has money, and wants to spend the money, then that's that. End of story.

mosx
Nov 22, 2010, 08:36 PM
What don't you get? Not everyone in the market for specs. There is no easier to explain that.

Like I said, software is only half of the equation when it comes to computers. Hardware plays every bit as important of a role as software.

With a Mac, you get inferior software AND hardware.

If you are unhappy with Apple, then don't buy from them.

I'm not any more. And I will do my best to honestly and in a non-slanderous way discourage others from buying Apple.

Stupid if me not to realize this before, but your points are no good. I'm not going to write and comment about everything you're saying because you're just turning this into a giant pissing contest.

If my points aren't good then you'd be able to counter them.

Just for your own sake though, and so you don't get a headache with the way Apple does things... stop buying Apple products! (you should know how Apple does things though since you've been using their products for a while)

The whole problem here stems from the fact that the Apple store employee told me one thing and Apple delivered another. And they only thing the woman from corporate executive relations could say is "he shouldn't have told you that".

WOW, you would really consider taking this to court and paying so much more money.

Costs about $45 to file small claims suit. And in California and under Magnuson-Moss, I'd get that back and all of my costs related to this incident, including lost wages, gas, etc.

and use it towards a new Zune and Dell laptop.

Why would I want a Dell laptop?

I'm smart enough to build my own system. I don't need a laptop, and when it comes to a personal computer, I want something I can service myself without having to call the manufacturer for support or parts.

"Show people what Apple's CS truly is" How do you account for the other good experiences posted all over this site?

Because different people have different definitions of "good". Some people are perfectly happy with having their products fail multiple times and having them replaced or repaired multiple times.

And besides, I don't understand the whole concept of having to buy your money's worth. If the buyer is happy with the product, has money, and wants to spend the money, then that's that. End of story.

Some people don't know any better, really.

wordoflife
Nov 22, 2010, 08:51 PM
If my points aren't good then you'd be able to counter them.

You clearly don't understand, and it seems you never will, and I don't have time to keep explaining myself. I told you many times, buy what ever makes you happy.


Costs about $45 to file small claims suit. And in California and under Magnuson-Moss, I'd get that back and all of my costs related to this incident, including lost wages, gas, etc.

Go for it

Why would I want a Dell laptop?

I'm smart enough to build my own system. I don't need a laptop, and when it comes to a personal computer, I want something I can service myself without having to call the manufacturer for support or parts.


I assumed you needed a laptop. I'm smart enough to build my own computer too, you can check my sig for specs.

Weepul
Nov 22, 2010, 09:34 PM
I don't know why I'm bothering, but:

I've been running Windows for the better portion of 2 decades now. And OS X for 4 years. I've seen OS X go berserk more in the last 4 years than I ever had problems with Windows. Tiger, 10.4.8, was the first time I had seen a computer fully lock up and become unresponsive since the 90s.
Your experience is nearly opposite of mine. Can I blame "user error" for your OS X troubles, too?

OS X? No benefit over Windows. As I said before, I can think of plenty of things Windows can do that OS X cannot. But not the other way around.
Having used Windows XP for a while, even after installing extensions and modifications to make it more acceptable, I find it still gets in my way and is less compatible with how I want to work, in many ways that I believe are not changeable (awkward keyboard shortcuts, double-click text selection character eating, always sorting folders above files, forgetting folder layout options and yes I have edited the registry setting to increase the count). Fortunately, many programs I use don't follow the Windows paradigm in those aspects and thus are tolerable.

OS X is more fluid and streamlined for me. I have not bothered, but I believe you could experimentally determine that I am less stressed and more productive on a computer running OS X.

Show me a Mac with USB 3, eSATA, full size ExpressCard, HDMI with full LPCM and "HD Audio" support, modern dedicated graphics, multi-card readers, user changeable batteries, blu-ray readers and writers, proper cooling systems, etc.
Of those features, the only ones I personally care about are the GPU and "proper" cooling if it is effective and quiet. Remember, other people may have different priorities than you.

Then you shouldn't be using a Mac. The metal casing can get hot to the touch. If I'm encoding video in Handbrake, my Mac's case gets hot to the point where I can't touch it. My HP case, on the other hand, barely gets warm to the touch even while playing games.
Although I haven't used a Mac laptop for those purposes (my main is a Mac Pro), my experiences with an HP and a Lenovo were that both got unbearably hot on the bottom when playing games. The HP had a very noisy fan even when idle, and worse when the battery was being charged (also computationally idle). From my perspective, your claim seems exceptional and I am skeptical.

Also, both had shorter battery life than a comparable Mac, the Lenovo was less well-equipped for a similar list price (though I found it discounted used), and the HP was heavier, hotter, noisier, with a worse screen and worse tactilely, although cheaper and better specced.

Back on topic, now I need to decide what steps to take next against Apple. Even after pointing out California laws and Magnuson-Moss, and my witnesses backing up my statement about the Apple store employee guaranteeing me a new replacement, Apple will not budge on this refurbished unit. So now I need to decide on whether to take Apple to court for breaking those laws. But at the same time, I could keep it and tell people my story about it.
Go for it. The Apple support rep goofed and if you're not the forgiving sort, you sound like you have a right to your claim. You can tell your story anyway; settling it in court ought to make it even stronger, right?

I won't be. And thanks to whats happened and me telling people my HONEST story, Apple has already lost about 50 sales for various items.
And I've already swayed 5 people from buying one today. So I might just do that.
It's too bad that those people are so easily swayed by one person's anecdotal experience.

flyfish29
Nov 22, 2010, 10:57 PM
You obviously didn't read all of my posts then.

Has ANYONE here actually read all of your posts? I don't think I have that much time in my day!;)

NO really, you should let others decide for themselves if Apple products are for them, clearly they are not for you though!!!

mosx
Nov 23, 2010, 12:25 AM
Your experience is nearly opposite of mine. Can I blame "user error" for your OS X troubles, too?

It's not user error when the OS just comes down crashing for no reason. There was a few times the OS crashed just as I tried to move the mouse cursor. Another when I clicked "Burn" in a "Burn Folder" (Tiger). Another when I emptied the Trash filled with pictures.

Having used Windows XP for a while

The last time Windows XP was relevant was what? 4 years ago?

even after installing extensions and modifications to make it more acceptable, I find it still gets in my way and is less compatible with how I want to work, in many ways that I believe are not changeable

Everything in Windows can be customized to the way you'd like. Everything.

awkward keyboard shortcuts

Compared to OS X's multiple keyboard combinations needed to alt-tab to a specific window? Or the fact that cut and paste STILL isn't directly supported in Finder (not apps, Finder)?

double-click text selection character eating

Never had that problem.

always sorting folders above files

Folders should be above files. It makes a lot more sense from an organization stand point than OS X's mix everything up approach of organizing.

forgetting folder layout options and yes I have edited the registry setting to increase the count

Never had that problem. The only way options like that would get changed is if you actively changed them yourself.

Of those features, the only ones I personally care about are the GPU and "proper" cooling if it is effective and quiet. Remember, other people may have different priorities than you.

So you don't care about things that the rest of the world does? You don't care about expandability? You'd rather your computer be a toy than something that can actually be upgraded and used as time progresses?

Although I haven't used a Mac laptop for those purposes (my main is a Mac Pro), my experiences with an HP and a Lenovo were that both got unbearably hot on the bottom when playing games. The HP had a very noisy fan even when idle, and worse when the battery was being charged (also computationally idle). From my perspective, your claim seems exceptional and I am skeptical.

Find an Apple notebook and try encoding some video. You'll see what "hot" means.

Fan noise doesn't equal running hot. I can hear the soft hum of my HP fan when the system is idle. But also runs several tens of degrees cooler than my Mac.

Also, both had shorter battery life than a comparable Mac, the Lenovo was less well-equipped for a similar list price (though I found it discounted used), and the HP was heavier, hotter, noisier, with a worse screen and worse tactilely, although cheaper and better specced.

Keyboard is subjective. I can't stand Apple's keyboards. It took about a year of use to finally "break in" my MacBook's keyboard and get it to the point where I could type as fast on it as I could on my HP.

I'm not concerned about weight because going from a 5lb system to a 6lb system isn't a big deal.

But theres no way a PC runs hotter than a Mac. Not at all. With Apple's poor cooling system designs, its impossible for a modern PC to run hotter than a modern Mac.

It's too bad that those people are so easily swayed by one person's anecdotal experience.

It's an honest story. Plus I have pictures and video to back it up.

you don't understand business
do you?

they arn't going to launch everything at once

Apple is the only company that gets away with deliberately holding back features to sell them on a next generation device.

Look at iPad competitors. Within weeks of the iPads release we had devices already being released that had all of the specs iPad should have had. Dual cameras, 512MB of RAM, multi-tasking, etc. Look at the iPod touch. The first one had a bone head design of not having any physical volume buttons. They waited for second generation for that. It took two more generations to finally have a half baked camera put in. Sony was selling media players with cameras more than half a decade ago.

your sounding more and more like someone that doesn't own any apple products and is trolling from some windows forum

Would you like pictures? I'll post a picture. iPod nano with the little plastic screen cover on (hence the blue tab) that it comes with when you get it back from warranty service sitting on the lid of my MacBook closed.

Taken with my iPhone 4. But edited to remove GPS data.

I think he is harping about his Nano ... I told him he should have sprung for the Touch

And I said I had an iPhone 4 and just wanted something for active use.

cav23j
Nov 23, 2010, 01:25 AM
Look at iPad competitors. Within weeks of the iPads release we had devices already being released that had all of the specs iPad should have had. Dual cameras, 512MB of RAM, multi-tasking, etc.

the playbook still doesn't have a set release date
RIM rushed out the announcement long before the product was ever coming..they had no hands on demo after the announcement and only had 1 on stage

announce and release are two different things

Apple is the only company that gets away with deliberately holding back features to sell them on a next generation device.


Microsoft has done the same thing with the Zune
Nintendo with the DS
Sony with the PSP

of course they could of on launch have everything they have currently but they didn't to make more money

mosx
Nov 23, 2010, 02:36 AM
the playbook still doesn't have a set release date
RIM rushed out the announcement long before the product was ever coming..they had no hands on demo after the announcement and only had 1 on stage

PlayBook is just one of MANY. It's certainly not the only one.

Microsoft has done the same thing with the Zune
Nintendo with the DS
Sony with the PSP

First, do you realize how long the PSP and DS have been on the market? They're both around 6 years old at this point.

Second, the Zune? What did MS hold back? Don't forget what I said earlier, Microsoft was giving feature updates for the Zune via firmware when Apple was giving excuses as to why they couldn't. When a new Zune came out, the previous Zunes received ALL of the new features through firmware updates. Apple kept saying they couldn't do that because of "accounting" or other times "if you want the new features you need to buy the new product!". Look at the 5.5G iPod and the iPod classic. When Apple debuted movie rentals, the iPod classic got a firmware update to support it. iPod 5.5G was left out in the dust. Why? Because it was a "new feature". The iPod classic didn't ship with that feature but was updated for it. So why couldn't the 5.5G be updated? Zune got new features through firmware updates. iPod did not until the iPod touch. And let's not forget that Apple tried to charge for those until this year. Remember the whole 1.1.4 update for the iPod touch? $20 if you wanted the email, stocks, and a couple of other apps? Then $10 later in the year for the 2.0 update?

What features did Nintendo leave out of the DS at first? When the DS was first released, Nintendo released it as fully featured as it could be for what it was. The DSi, with its digital cameras, wasn't released until 4 years after the fact.

Same goes for the PSP. What features were left out? None.

Now look at Apple. The executives at Apple and those in charge of certain departments knew what was coming for the iPhone 4, iPod touch 4G, and the iPad. Yet, despite having planned the iPhone 4 with dual cameras and 512MB of RAM, they made the decision to make release the iPad with half the memory and no cameras. Why? Profitability. Because if they released the iPad with 512MB of RAM and dual cameras, then people would know what was in store for the iPhone 4 and stop buying iPhone 3G S. If they held these features back, they could continue to sell the iPhone 3G S and then push sales of the iPhone 4, AND get the early adopters of the iPad to rebuy it a year later when iPad 2 comes out with all of the features it should have had from the start.

blackburn
Nov 23, 2010, 04:22 AM
If your in love with windows why the hell did you buy a macbook an iphone and an ipod nano?

Why didn't you bought an professional dell laptop, an htc desire and sony walkman? Better for you, better for us. And for the 5,5Gen ipod there's something called rockbox. It does wonders.

And I don't run windows on my mac. But I run mac os x in my pc.

gnasher729
Nov 23, 2010, 05:02 AM
What don't you get? Not everyone in the market for specs. There is no easier to explain that.

I'd say everyone is looking at specs, but some people have a narrower view of specs, and some have a wider view. When I bought a MacBook Pro, I bought it purely on specs. Part of the specs were: The operating system. The backlit keyboard. The perfect size. The fact that it can stay in the living room without looking ugly. The fact that in my experience MacBooks easily last four years (my previous MacBook is now 4 1/2 years old and still running fine). The fact that I can go to a store that is not filled with (I almost said blathering idiots, but they are mostly really fine young people who unfortunately have no product training :D ). The fact that _I_ have never had any problem with an Apple product that wasn't fixed promptly and without any fuss; which I assume is just my friendly and convincing personality :rolleyes: . The processor speed; same as the top speed of a Rolls Royce: Fast enough. The graphics speed; much faster than I need. RAM: Plenty, easily upgradable to 8GB when the price goes down. Hard drive: Plenty, easily upgradable to 1 TB. No fear of viruses. Very little maintenance. My wife can use it without any problems. Actually, many people who never used a Mac before can use it easily. A trackpad that is intuitive. Easy backup. Connects to a large monitor without any problems. Connects to my TV without any problems. Free professional software development tools. Ten hours battery life, with a battery that lasts 1000 charges.

That is all part of the specs that I consider.

Of course there is a lot of irrationality around. Like people who are in fear of using a Core 2 Duo instead of an i3, even though they will never in their sad live notice any speed difference.

wordoflife
Nov 23, 2010, 05:29 AM
I'd say everyone is looking at specs, but some people have a narrower view of specs, and some have a wider view. When I bought a MacBook Pro, I bought it purely on specs. Part of the specs were: The operating system. The backlit keyboard. The perfect size. The fact that it can stay in the living room without looking ugly. The fact that in my experience MacBooks easily last four years (my previous MacBook is now 4 1/2 years old and still running fine). The fact that I can go to a store that is not filled with (I almost said blathering idiots, but they are mostly really fine young people who unfortunately have no product training :D ). The fact that _I_ have never had any problem with an Apple product that wasn't fixed promptly and without any fuss; which I assume is just my friendly and convincing personality :rolleyes: . The processor speed; same as the top speed of a Rolls Royce: Fast enough. The graphics speed; much faster than I need. RAM: Plenty, easily upgradable to 8GB when the price goes down. Hard drive: Plenty, easily upgradable to 1 TB. No fear of viruses. Very little maintenance. My wife can use it without any problems. Actually, many people who never used a Mac before can use it easily. A trackpad that is intuitive. Easy backup. Connects to a large monitor without any problems. Connects to my TV without any problems. Free professional software development tools. Ten hours battery life, with a battery that lasts 1000 charges.

That is all part of the specs that I consider.

Of course there is a lot of irrationality around. Like people who are in fear of using a Core 2 Duo instead of an i3, even though they will never in their sad live notice any speed difference.
Well, yeah. Everyone account for those things when buying a computer. I'm just saying that from my experiences, my 'poorly specced' Macbook Pro is a bit smoother when, I don't know - checking Facebook, than needing a whole i7 wih 16GB RAM. The actual operating system, OS X, makes the experience smooth, whatever the specs may be.

jamin100
Nov 23, 2010, 05:49 AM
OP - I for one agree with you entirely..

Here's my story:

2 years ago i brought a white macbook, within 2 months i started to get cracking around the keyboard and my screen would flicker every now and again. I phoned apple and asked for a replacement. Because i was out of the 14 day replacement window i was told that the machine needed to be repaired.

So, i sent it off to a apple repair center and it came back 2 weeks later. 2 WEEKS, just to fix some casing and whatever was causing the flicker.. So again i complained to apple and was very politely told where to shove it..

So fastforward a year later. The same macbook screen started to flicker again (why do i keep wanting to type flickr insted of flicker, anyway) SO i call apple again (i had applecare) to get the problem fixed. I was then denied support because they claim that i do not have applecare even though i have all the paper work saying that its registered to my machine, the box and the recipt...

I told myself then, thats it.. I've had enough with apple and i'm never NEVER buying anything from them again. EVER! So many promises, so many lies. It just hurt, real bad.

It got that bad that i contemplated creating a post on macrumors, telling all the people that love macs that they were all wrong and that they should stop buying apple products to teach Mr Jobs a lesson. "We'll get him" i though to myself..

In the end though, i woke up and realised that it was all a bad dream, and that infact my white macbook with the flickering screen HAD been replaced with a new unit, and that my applecare still remained.

Infact, i also remember selling that macbook later that year for almost what i paid for it and then buying a 24" imac. Again, once it had all come back to me i realised that i now own, about 6 apple products and that they all give me a great experience and a warm fuzzy feeling inside when i use them.

I did have to go to church and confess that I had bad thoughts, well dreams about telling everyone to stop buying apple products just to spite Mr Jobs . . .

But God forgave me, and now loves me again.

God uses an ipad.

amen.

iCole
Nov 23, 2010, 06:01 AM
OP - I understand your frustration but looking at the good image the customer service of Apple has... i think you're just having bad luck or you are stuck with a bad customer service in your neighbourhood. Some idiot or newbie must have messed up over there. But remember that you can get that ******** with every other computer manufacturer. Hell, in the case of Acer (to name something) you don't even have a real customer service.

But as I've said: I can understand your frustration :-) It's never fun to get a faulty product and get screwed over it again.

cav23j
Nov 23, 2010, 09:19 AM
What features did Nintendo leave out of the DS at first? When the DS was first released, Nintendo released it as fully featured as it could be for what it was. The DSi, with its digital cameras, wasn't released until 4 years after the fact.


they could of launched the DS Lite on launch if they wanted to
instead they made a slimmer version a few years later
plus they could of put cameras in at launch or on release of the DS Lite

they been holding stuff back to make more money

galstaph
Nov 23, 2010, 10:38 AM
I've actually read all the op's posts...
I can see you are truly frustrated and feel that you have been wronged by Apple. You feel such injustice that you feel that you have grounds to lay a lawsuit on them, for replacing your ipod with a refurbished unit while under the manufacturers warranty.

I took a perusal of the Magnunson-Moss Warranty Act, (MMWA) and the Apple ipod/isight warranty, based on your comments, and these documents, you do not have a legitimate case.

1. Did the apple store employee expressly, in writing, guarantee that you would get a NEW replacement for your used ipod (I say yours was used because once you open the original packaging and turn it on/connect to itunes it has become used)?

2. So we get things straight from the get go, a full warranty, which is what Apple provides for a period of 1 year from the purchase date is defined by the MMWA as:
(6) The term “written warranty” means— (A) any written affirmation of fact or written promise made in connection with the sale of a consumer product by a supplier to a buyer which relates to the nature of the material or workmanship and affirms or promises that such material or workmanship is defect free or will meet a specified level of performance over a specified period of time, or
(B) any undertaking in writing in connection with the sale by a supplier of a consumer product to refund, repair, replace, or take other remedial action with respect to such product in the event that such product fails to meet the specifications set forth in the undertaking,
which written affirmation, promise, or undertaking becomes part of the basis of the bargain between a supplier and a buyer for purposes other than resale of such product.3. OK, so now that we know what a warranty is what does Apple warrant?
Apple’s warranty obligations for this hardware product are limited to the terms set forth herein: Apple, as defined in the table below, warrants this hardware product against defects in materials and workmanship under normal use for a period of ONE (1) YEAR from the date of retail purchase by the original end-user purchaser (“Warranty Period”). If a hardware defect arises and a valid claim is received by Apple within the Warranty Period, at its option and to the extent permitted by law, Apple will either (1) repair the product at no charge, using new parts or refurbished parts that are equivalent to new in performance and reliability, (2) exchange the product with a product that is new or refurbished that is equivalent to new in performance and reliability and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product, or (3) refund the purchase price of the product. Apple may request that you replace defective parts with user-installable new or refurbished parts that Apple provides in fulfillment of its warranty obligation. A replacement product or part, including a user-installable part that has been installed in accordance with instructions provided by Apple, assumes the remaining warranty of the original product or ninety (90) days from the date of replacement or repair, whichever provides longer coverage for you. When a product or part is exchanged, any replacement item becomes your property and the replaced item becomes Apple’s property. Parts provided by Apple in fulfillment of its warranty obligation must be used in products for which warranty service is claimed. When a refund is given, the product for which the refund is provided must be returned to Apple and becomes Apple’s property.So we read here that Apple warrants that in the event the product needs warranty service, at their discretion they can repair OR replace with new or REFURBISHED parts.

4. To Envoke the use of the MMWA Apple must have breached one of the following:

§ 2304. Federal minimum standards for warranties

(a) Remedies under written warranty; duration of implied warranty; exclusion or limitation on consequential damages for breach of written or implied warranty; election of refund or replacement In order for a warrantor warranting a consumer product by means of a written warranty to meet the Federal minimum standards for warranty—


(1) such warrantor must as a minimum remedy such consumer product within a reasonable time and without charge, in the case of a defect, malfunction, or failure to conform with such written warranty;
(2) notwithstanding section 2308 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode15/usc_sec_15_00002308----000-.html) (b) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode15/usc_sec_15_00002308----000-.html#b) of this title, such warrantor may not impose any limitation on the duration of any implied warranty on the product;
(3) such warrantor may not exclude or limit consequential damages for breach of any written or implied warranty on such product, unless such exclusion or limitation conspicuously appears on the face of the warranty; and
(4) if the product (or a component part thereof) contains a defect or malfunction after a reasonable number of attempts by the warrantor to remedy defects or malfunctions in such product, such warrantor must permit the consumer to elect either a refund for, or replacement without charge of, such product or part (as the case may be). The Commission may by rule specify for purposes of this paragraph, what constitutes a reasonable number of attempts to remedy particular kinds of defects or malfunctions under different circumstances. If the warrantor replaces a component part of a consumer product, such replacement shall include installing the part in the product without charge.SO to sum this up tidily, You noticed a problem on your in-warranty ipod. You brought it to Apple, who, replaced it with a new in box model at the store. You noticed a problem with that ipod, you brought it back to the store, they did not have any ipods to replace it with and advised you to send it in for replacement (verbal indication of new is not legally admissable, it must be in writing, besides Apple can replace with new or refurbished at their discretion (or replace the defect part)).Your replacement arrived and happened to be a refurbished unit that 'is equivalent to new in performance and reliability and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product."
OK we've agreed on these facts. So you feel that by replacing your ipod with a refurbished ipod (which is a option that Apple has the legal right to exercise), you have been cheated, therefore you feel that you need to sue Apple for damages that it has caused you (lost wages, travel time, gas, meals between your place and the Apple store, tread ware on your tires, maintenance and insurance costs for said vehicle, loss of device, probably loss of sexual desire for your spouse/partner (really try and sue for this while you're at it, because it is evident that you have been brooding on the issue of Apple providing you with poor service and poor products for a long time and you could conceivably attribute this to making you depressed and angry, leading to sexual and emotional problems and damages, really lawyers love this stuff).
So now you get all you documents together, initial reciept, proof of written confirmation that unit was to be new, proof that he refurbished unit was in a used and inferior condition, recorded discussions with apple customer service, etc.
So now we need another reading of the MMWA to verify that we can go to court:
(d) Civil action by consumer for damages, etc.; jurisdiction; recovery of costs and expenses; cognizable claims (1) Subject to subsections (a)(3) and (e) of this section, a consumer who is damaged by the failure of a supplier, warrantor, or service contractor to comply with any obligation under this chapter, or under a written warranty, implied warranty, or service contract, may bring suit for damages and other legal and equitable relief— (A) in any court of competent jurisdiction in any State or the District of Columbia; or
(B) in an appropriate district court of the United States, subject to paragraph (3) of this subsection.So it seems that you can go to court, if Apple breached their warranty, but for ****** and giggles lets read on a bit shall we?



(2) If a consumer finally prevails in any action brought under paragraph (1) of this subsection, he may be allowed by the court to recover as part of the judgment a sum equal to the aggregate amount of cost and expenses (including attorneys’ fees based on actual time expended) determined by the court to have been reasonably incurred by the plaintiff for or in connection with the commencement and prosecution of such action, unless the court in its discretion shall determine that such an award of attorneys’ fees would be inappropriate.
so far so good, but wait one more thing...

(3) No claim shall be cognizable in a suit brought under paragraph (1)(B) of this subsection— (A) if the amount in controversy of any individual claim is less than the sum or value of $25;
(B) if the amount in controversy is less than the sum or value of $50,000 (exclusive of interests and costs) computed on the basis of all claims to be determined in this suit; or
(C) if the action is brought as a class action, and the number of named plaintiffs is less than one hundred.

(e) Class actions; conditions; procedures applicable No action (other than a class action or an action respecting a warranty to which subsection (a)(3) of this section applies) may be brought under subsection (d) of this section for failure to comply with any obligation under any written or implied warranty or service contract, and a class of consumers may not proceed in a class action under such subsection with respect to such a failure except to the extent the court determines necessary to establish the representative capacity of the named plaintiffs, unless the person obligated under the warranty or service contract is afforded a reasonable opportunity to cure such failure to comply. In the case of such a class action (other than a class action respecting a warranty to which subsection (a)(3) of this section applies) brought under subsection (d) of this section for breach of any written or implied warranty or service contract, such reasonable opportunity will be afforded by the named plaintiffs and they shall at that time notify the defendant that they are acting on behalf of the class. In the case of such a class action which is brought in a district court of the United States, the representative capacity of the named plaintiffs shall be established in the application of rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.So wait... as I read it, to fully punish the Evil Jobs and the Apple Conglomerate you need to bring a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT to trial, a lawsuit based on Apple not providing their warranty to consumers, oh and you need more than 100 people on your side, OR sue for more than $50,000....

Don't forget, while in criminal law the prosecution must prove their case, in civil court the complainant has to prove they were wronged, in other words the onus is on you to make your case airtight.

So to sum up, you received a replacement as per Apple's warranty. You were unhappy that they complied with their warranty as it is expressly defined in writing. You are unhappy because you were promised verbally that it would be a new unit by a store level employee (not a person of authority with the right to act on the company's behalf outside of its warranty policies). You feel that your only recourse is to sue as Apple refuses to do anything to placate you (because they think they have fulfilled their contractual obligation to replace your equipment undoubtedly), and have been alienating you with inferior products for years.

If I have misrepresented you in any way let me know. I am sure you will be able to provide a redress and rebuttal to my statements and reading of the law within the United States of America (What do I know, I'm Canadian, and we use English Common Law here). I was merely wanting to address the areas I saw flawed logic on your end in contrast to the actions by Apple.

I am also not going to get into your discussion of Apple as either good or bad, they are a business and as such, operating in a capitalist free market society, such as the United States, they are allowed to run their affairs as they see fit, within the law. I am reminded that a few years ago a GM VP was quoted as saying "If people want to buy a 12 mpg truck, we will sell them a 12 mpg truck", take that as you will.
Good Day Sir

Indy500fan1977
Nov 23, 2010, 11:01 AM
Does anyone else find it condescending that 'he is smart enough to build his own system?'. I think the majority of us here know how to build our own systems if we chose to do so. Plus, I don't necessarily equate 'smart' with knowing how to build something. There are plenty of smart people who don't know how to build there own system.

Also, OP, have you thought of the possibility of what may happen if you lose your lawsuit against Apple?

polaris20
Nov 24, 2010, 02:43 PM
So my 7 week old iPod nano died. Same stuck sleep/wake button that seems to be affecting a lot of people.

I went to the Apple store to have it replaced. Halfway through the process the guy says they have no stock of it and it can't be swapped. I'd have to mail it in. He assures me that the mail in service would give me a new unit the same as he would have.

So I set up the repair. Send it in. It takes two days longer than it should have because the person at the call center typed the serial number in wrong. Lovely.

I get the replacement. The person thats been helping me informs me its a "service unit" and refurbished, not new. Great.

I paid for a new unit. I specifically bought a new unit because I wanted it new, not refurbished. On top of that, I did mail in service because I was assured that I would get a new replacement. So this is, in a sense, a bait and and switch.

Now I have more fun to deal with getting them to honor their employees word and obey the law regarding bait and switch with merchandise.

After this, the swelling battery in my MacBook they refused to replace even though its a manufacturer defect and a design flaw, and all of the other experiences I've had with Apple, I'm done. No more Apple products for me. I won't even buy apps from the app store any more.

That's interesting. My wife's iPT gen4 was making a clicking sound when recording video. I called AppleCare, so they sent me to the local Apple Store. They looked at it, confirmed, and said:

"sorry, we're all out. We can either A. put you on a list and call you when they come in, B. have one set aside at the AppleStore 30 minutes away, or C. give you a gift card for the full amount so that you can just order a new one online".

I took C. We ordered, it was here in a couple days.

Maybe you should just stop buying Apple products? You seem to have poor luck. Meanwhile, my company is many, many Mac and iOS products in, and no troubles. I've got two Macs, no issues. Several friends have Macs (some for over a decade), and no issues. I guess we're just lucky. :D

You should go back to HP stuff, you seemed to have been really happy with them:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=284713

MsMerryMac
Nov 24, 2010, 02:57 PM
Wow. Just....wow. The OP clearly has A LOT of time on his hands to be continuing the argument and quoting many long excerpts in his posts. I hate to add fuel to the fire, but sheesh, get a life Mosx. You got a replacement (exactly what Apple offers). Also, Frys is notorious for selling refurbished items themselves. I would never buy an Apple product from anywhere other than a Mac Store or online at Apple. For all they know, you could have done something to hose your Nano so for them to replace it at all at least shows they stand behind their products, even if you bought it at a swap meet, with no questions.

malikk
Nov 24, 2010, 03:48 PM
I'm too intelligent to buy a system at a big box store. I can build it myself.


You know there are reasons to buy a computer from a store over building them?

polaris20
Nov 24, 2010, 07:16 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I have an attitude because of all of the run ins I've had with Apple customer support.

I've had to send my MacBook out to AppleCare about 9 times total. Why so many times? Because the repair center sent the system back in worse shape, either cosmetically or functionally, than I sent it out in.

One time I sent out a plastic MacBook because the case had started to crack around the vents and turn yellow around the vent because of Apple's high temperatures and poor cooling system designs. When it came back to me, not only did it look like it had been dragged across asphalt, but the casing around the opening for the optical drive had somehow been warped to the point where I couldn't put a disc in.

Because of their repair center screwing things up all the time, Apple replaced my Mac twice. It wasn't because I was unhappy. It was because of a combination of Apple's poor build quality and their repair center being unable to do the job without screwing things up even worse than they were before.

Even when I finally got my third system, things were only good for a year or so. After about a year, Apple issue a firmware update for the optical drive that killed it. Had to send it out to get the drive replaced. When I got it back the bottom case looked like it had a screw driver pounded almost all the way through. So I had to make the hour long journey to the Apple store for them to replace that piece of the case.

And finally, the battery in my MacBook started to swell up and start cutting off randomly during use. This is a known defect with those batteries. But Apple told me to go pound sand in a more polite way.

So I have every reason to be upset with Apple and have an attitude. Because of them, I spent a combined total of more than two months without a computer. I've had to spend a significant amount of money on gas because of them. And I've been screwed over by them.



No, its not fair. Refurbished units sell cheaper than new. Again, I paid for new. It doesn't matter that it was two months ago. I paid for new, I deserve new. If they want to give me refurbished AFTER assuring me that I would get a new replacement unit then they need to refund me the difference. In cash. No Apple store credit.



Those last two sentences make me laugh. Apple products are NOT built better than the competition. Case in point being my MacBook issues as well as my iPhone 4. I love my iPhone 4, and iPhones are the only Apple product to never give me problems. But I shouldn't have to have it in a case thats built for protection just because Apple chooses style over functionality.

But, getting back on topic, do a google search for the 6th generation iPod nano. The same problem I had, the sleep/wake button dying, is VERY widespread with A LOT of people having this problem. With as many people who have had issues, its easy to say its destined to fail. And whats worse is all of those people were able to go into the Apple store and get it exchanged for a NEW unit.



If you live in the US you can sue Apple under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. You should actually be able to sue them in small claims. I know here in California, thanks to the state consumer protection laws and Magnuson-Moss, I'd be able to sue them in small claims and I'm almost guaranteed a win.

And now that jailbreaking is legal, this would apply to any iOS users who have jailbroken and are denied warranty service. Sue under Magnuson-Moss and your own states consumer protection laws.



When it comes to computers, this sort of statement is just mind boggling. How are competitors products inferior? Aside from battery life, competing brands make far better products. True quad core processors in notebooks, GPUs that are far more powerful than anything offered in any shipping Mac (other than expensive upgrades for the Mac Pro), blu-ray readers, multi-card readers, eSATA, USB 3, etc. And these are all in systems that cost significantly less than Apple products.

In the one case I can think of where Apple costs less, its only by $50. That would be the base Mac mini compared to the Dell Zino HD. The Dell is about the same size as the Mac mini, but taller. And for $50 more you get a blu-ray reader, quad core processor, blu-ray reader, significantly better GPU, etc.

Owning an iPhone, iPad, and various iPods, I can make the same arguments about those products and their competitors as well. After this experience, I'm done buying Apple products. The situation with the iPad helped with that decision too. The iPad should have shipped with iOS 4. It should have had 512MB of RAM instead of 256. It should have had FaceTime with dual cameras. Jobs knew all of that was coming with iPhone 4 but decided to hold it out of the iPad for sake of pushing iPhone 3GS sales up until the iPhone 4 release, pushing sales of the iPhone 4, and attempting to get early adopters to buy a second iPad a year later when it finally shipped with those features.



No, they screwed me over. Again. I paid twice as much for a product as I should have only to have it die due to poor build quality, and now they're trying to push a used product on me when I paid for new.
now tell me why you keep buying apple products??

True. It's not like you need Apple products to troll an Apple-related forum. I especially love the "the iPad needs 512MB, cameras, etc yet I bought it anyway and I'm pissed about it" thought process.

I think I'll go buy a Toyota Prius, even though I need something that can haul 3 kids and a stroller. Then I am going to complain how there's not enough space, and the kids are cramped. After all, I can't read specs either ;)

mosx
Nov 27, 2010, 04:49 PM
If your in love with windows why the hell did you buy a macbook an iphone and an ipod nano?

I love my iPhone, aside from my inability to purchase it unlocked without service. However, because of this experience, I will not be buying another.

I used to like iPods until this episode.

With the Mac, I had believed the hype. I didn't see that the hype was just that, hype, until the return window had closed and I was stuck with the system.

And for the 5,5Gen ipod there's something called rockbox. It does wonders.

I've tried it. I don't really care for it. Unless something drastic has changed since Rockbox 3.5, I don't see too much point in using it.

The fact that I can go to a store that is not filled with (I almost said blathering idiots, but they are mostly really fine young people who unfortunately have no product training

You're saying the Apple store is great? I can't stand that store. The one closest to me is filled with hipster guys in skinny jeans that would make TSA agents blush, with holier than thou attitudes. And the best part is, they talk down to you. Great.

The processor speed; same as the top speed of a Rolls Royce: Fast enough.

So something that hasn't been modern in nearly half a decade is fast enough for you?

The graphics speed; much faster than I need.

You must like choppy UIs.

RAM: Plenty, easily upgradable to 8GB when the price goes down.

Modern PC notebooks and desktops can take 16GB easily.

Hard drive: Plenty, easily upgradable to 1 TB.

Apple regularly includes HDDs that are significantly lower capacity than those found in PCs.

Nobody should be okay with purchasing a system that needs upgrades out of the box. Especially when it costs twice as much as competing products.

No fear of viruses.

Funny, I have no fear of viruses in Windows either. And I don't even run anti-virus software. This argument hasn't been valid since the 90s.

Very little maintenance.

Sure, if you like your Mac getting slower and slower with time.

A trackpad that is intuitive.

And useless in the real world. Have to use a mouse unless I'm portable.

Easy backup.

That has proven unreliable. Google is your friend.

Connects to a large monitor without any problems

Apple's multi-display support is the worst in the industry. It's 2010 and I still can't control display functions in software.

Connects to my TV without any problems.

Thats funny because I was using HDMI to connect to HDTVs without expensive dongles many years ago.

Ten hours battery life, with a battery that lasts 1000 charges.

"Charges"? Now I know you're drinking the Apple Kool-Aid. It's cycles, not charges. And a properly maintained battery will last for years. My 2008 unibody MacBook battery swelled up and died after a year and a half. It only had 170 cycles or so. 99% life still. My HP's original battery is 3 years old now, 98% life reporting. The double capacity battery I have for it is 2 years old now and 99% life.

10 hours? Real world is significantly less. Especially if you start browsing real websites or turn the screen brightness up to a usable level.

Any company is better off without a customer like you. They have to build 3 or 4 of every product every time you buy one. There's no way to make money on you. I'd wager that Apple has seen this trend and has simply given up and hopes you go away.

Thats fine. Because I'm having fun telling people my honest story and swaying people to purchase other products.

they could of launched the DS Lite on launch if they wanted to
instead they made a slimmer version a few years later
plus they could of put cameras in at launch or on release of the DS Lite

The DS lite came out 2 years after the original DS and didn't really have anything better except it weighed less and had better battery life.

Real changes to the DS weren't made until it had already been on the market for 4 years. Unlike Apple. Apple releases one deliberately gimped product to boost sales of another and be able to sell the second generation product to all of those who bought the first generation. Unlike the DS and DSi, the technology currently exists and is cheap for Apple to have made the iPad what it should have been. But they didn't, for the sake of pushing more iPhone 4 sales and iPad 2 sales.

I took a perusal of the Magnunson-Moss Warranty Act, (MMWA) and the Apple ipod/isight warranty, based on your comments, and these documents, you do not have a legitimate case.

According to the attorneys I've consulted, I do.

1. Did the apple store employee expressly, in writing, guarantee that you would get a NEW replacement for your used ipod (I say yours was used because once you open the original packaging and turn it on/connect to itunes it has become used)?

In California, verbal promise holds the same legal standing as written promise. In fact, if, for example, someone borrowed money from you and promised to pay you back verbally, you can sue them with the same effectiveness as if they had signed a promissory note.

So we read here that Apple warrants that in the event the product needs warranty service, at their discretion they can repair OR replace with new or REFURBISHED parts.

Again, the Apple store employee verbally assured me that I would be getting a NEW unit. And I have a witness to testify to the fact. According to the attorneys I have spoken to, some of which were willing to take the case on contingency, I do have a case against Apple if I choose to take it.

SO to sum this up tidily, You noticed a problem on your in-warranty ipod. You brought it to Apple, who, replaced it with a new in box model at the store. You noticed a problem with that ipod, you brought it back to the store

To sum it up, you didn't read my post. Thats not what happened. They didn't replace it in store. They were going to. Then the employee saw they were out of stock. He assured me that mail-in service would provide me with a new unit.

verbal indication of new is not legally admissable, it must be in writing, besides Apple can replace with new or refurbished at their discretion

Again, in the great state of California, verbal assurance is every bit as legally binding as written.

So wait... as I read it, to fully punish the Evil Jobs and the Apple Conglomerate you need to bring a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT to trial, a lawsuit based on Apple not providing their warranty to consumers, oh and you need more than 100 people on your side, OR sue for more than $50,000….

Well, then you need to learn how to read apparently.

As I've said, I've consulted attorneys here in California. Under California state law and federal laws, they did not live up to their end of the bargain because the Apple Store employee assured me I would receive a new unit. Simple as that.

Don't forget, while in criminal law the prosecution must prove their case, in civil court the complainant has to prove they were wronged, in other words the onus is on you to make your case airtight.

Considering I have a witness, not hard at all.

You were unhappy that they complied with their warranty as it is expressly defined in writing. You are unhappy because you were promised verbally that it would be a new unit by a store level employee (not a person of authority with the right to act on the company's behalf outside of its warranty policies).

Again, under California state law, verbal agreements hold as much water in court as written.

The way you've replied to my post, the things you've written show that you did not even fully read what I have posted. Not only that, but you're not an attorney, you're posting from an extremely biased towards Apple view point, and you're talking to someone who has a lot of experience in these matters.

That's interesting. My wife's iPT gen4 was making a clicking sound when recording video. I called AppleCare, so they sent me to the local Apple Store. They looked at it, confirmed, and said:

"sorry, we're all out. We can either A. put you on a list and call you when they come in, B. have one set aside at the AppleStore 30 minutes away, or C. give you a gift card for the full amount so that you can just order a new one online".

I took C. We ordered, it was here in a couple days.

How long had you owned it? Mine was 7 weeks old and NOT purchased from an Apple store. I avoid the Apple store at all costs if possible.

Maybe you should just stop buying Apple products?

Oh I have. I've already covered up the Apple and MacBook logos on my Mac. And I'm taking other steps to Apple-free my life. I'll be selling what I can here in the coming weeks.

Several friends have Macs (some for over a decade), and no issues. I guess we're just lucky.

The last person I've known to own a Mac bought a PC yesterday. The most ardent Mac fanboy I knew recently purchased a PC that puts all MacBook Pros to shame. 18.4" screen, quad core Core i7, GTX 460m, 500GB HDD, 8GB of RAM, blu-ray, 1080p screen. All for $200 less than the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro.

You should go back to HP stuff, you seemed to have been really happy with them

I am actually. The last system HP gave me is now 3 years old. Batteries are still like new and its outlived 3 Macs. When the optical drive in it went bad, I called HP and they sent me a new one. It took less than a minute for me to swap the drive out. When Apple's firmware update killed my MacBook's DVD writer, I had to send the system in and wait a week. When it came back it was scratched on the bottom and I had to take it to the Apple store to have the case replaced.

I especially love the "the iPad needs 512MB, cameras, etc yet I bought it anyway and I'm pissed about it" thought process.

It's funny how you continue to deliberately misread my posts after all the debates we've had.

I bought the iPad on launch day. Had no idea that Apple was deliberately holding back the hardware until the iPhone 4 announcement.

Kristenn
Nov 27, 2010, 11:43 PM
I seriously hate to feed the troll here but I do have ONE BIG question your little brain just might not be able to grasp.

Give me a link to the $999 dollar laptop with Quadcore, dedicated graphics and 4/8GB of RAM.

If such a computer is on the face of the earth... new for that price. How is that battery life serving ya? I mean after all, battery life is what matters in a laptop. Why have a laptop that runs for an hour and a half with so much speed you can't even use on the road when you can have a laptop that lasts 5/8 hours and STILL has more than enough speed to get you by?

mosx
Nov 28, 2010, 01:17 AM
Give me a link to the $999 dollar laptop with Quadcore, dedicated graphics and 4/8GB of RAM.

If such a computer is on the face of the earth... new for that price.

I'll give you 3 links. All quad core. All dedicated graphics. One even has a blu-ray reader. Just because Apple overprices their hardware by 2-3x doesn't mean everyone else does.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146848

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220827

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115868

How is that battery life serving ya? I mean after all, battery life is what matters in a laptop. Why have a laptop that runs for an hour and a half with so much speed you can't even use on the road when you can have a laptop that lasts 5/8 hours and STILL has more than enough speed to get you by?

Depends on your definition of "speed". In 2006, a Core 2 Duo was fast. In 2010, a true quad core Core i7 or Phenom II X4 is fast.

Battery life? Well, three things to address with this argument. First being that I can easily swap batteries out on a PC notebook. Second being that my PC, whether it be my Mac or my HP, gets carried in a backpack along with its power supply. Everywhere I go has plugs, so I'm plugged in far more often than I'm not when I'm away from my desk. Second is that PC batteries tend to charge a lot faster than Macs. My HP 3.5 hour battery can charge from dead to 100% in the same amount of time it takes my Mac battery to recharge 30%, despite the fact that its only rated at "5 hours" (real world being 3.5 or so).

Plus I had a double capacity battery for my HP years ago. I was getting 7 hours on a single charge when Apple was rating their systems at "4.5" hours with real world usage of around 3.

Kristenn
Nov 28, 2010, 05:44 AM
I'll give you 3 links. All quad core. All dedicated graphics. One even has a blu-ray reader. Just because Apple overprices their hardware by 2-3x doesn't mean everyone else does.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146848

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220827

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115868



Depends on your definition of "speed". In 2006, a Core 2 Duo was fast. In 2010, a true quad core Core i7 or Phenom II X4 is fast.

Battery life? Well, three things to address with this argument. First being that I can easily swap batteries out on a PC notebook. Second being that my PC, whether it be my Mac or my HP, gets carried in a backpack along with its power supply. Everywhere I go has plugs, so I'm plugged in far more often than I'm not when I'm away from my desk. Second is that PC batteries tend to charge a lot faster than Macs. My HP 3.5 hour battery can charge from dead to 100% in the same amount of time it takes my Mac battery to recharge 30%, despite the fact that its only rated at "5 hours" (real world being 3.5 or so).

Plus I had a double capacity battery for my HP years ago. I was getting 7 hours on a single charge when Apple was rating their systems at "4.5" hours with real world usage of around 3.

:rolleyes:

Can you get it for that price from the manufacturer? Off their website? I can buy a MBP ($2499 from Apple) for about $1000 if I look hard enough on Ebay. How does posting a link from Newegg prove your point? Or am I missing something here?

3.5 real world? I got 5 hours and 15 minutes out of my MBP when I got it new.

You use the excuse that you can swap batteries and are always sitting by the power outlet most places anyway but, why not pay more just to have a 5 hour battery rather than carry two 2.5 hour batteries?

No, I'm seriously trying to understand. Why did you buy anything Apple in the first place? You are so quick to defend PCs and thrash the Macintosh that I'm truly beginning to think that you have never really owned (or enjoyed) a single product from Apple. I demand pics or it isn't true.

But how powerful was that HP laptop? The one that got 7 hours when Apple was getting 4.5? I hope you aren't comparing a consumer laptop to a Professional laptop because if you are you just need to stop... now. Seriously before I throw up my lovely breakfast.


Just because Ebay and Amazon sell computers for dirt cheap doesn't mean the companies that designed them do.

C wot I did thar?

mosx
Nov 28, 2010, 05:04 PM
Can you get it for that price from the manufacturer? Off their website? I can buy a MBP ($2499 from Apple) for about $1000 if I look hard enough on Ebay. How does posting a link from Newegg prove your point? Or am I missing something here?

Whats wrong with newegg? They sell NEW systems directly from the manufacturer with the manufacturers warranty. In fact, look at the standard warranty on the Asus and find me a Mac with a warranty like that.

A Mac on ebay would be used if discounted that much. And considering Apple's build quality, I'm not going anywhere near USED products.

3.5 real world? I got 5 hours and 15 minutes out of my MBP when I got it new

I get 3.5 out of my 2008 unibody MacBook rated at 5. Thats with wifi on, bluetooth off, and screen at 50%. Anything below 50% is unusable.

You use the excuse that you can swap batteries and are always sitting by the power outlet most places anyway but, why not pay more just to have a 5 hour battery rather than carry two 2.5 hour batteries?

In a real world situation people are using their notebooks plugged in. 2.5-3.5 hours of real world use is plenty of time when most people almost never have their systems unplugged to begin with. And considering that most people use their notebooks as their only system, having one that can last several years, has user serviceable parts, and has a lot of horsepower is far more important than having one with a good battery, thats underpowered, and is more of a fashion accessory toy than a real computer.

No, I'm seriously trying to understand. Why did you buy anything Apple in the first place? You are so quick to defend PCs and thrash the Macintosh that I'm truly beginning to think that you have never really owned (or enjoyed) a single product from Apple. I demand pics or it isn't true.

Good job not reading the entire thread. Already posted a pic of my iPod nano 6G laying on my 2008 unibody MacBook.

Why did I buy anything Apple? Well, I liked iPods up until this incident. I had already sworn off Macs years ago after having terrible customer service experiences and even worse repair service. I only bought a Mac because I was a sucker that believed the false hype about OS X.

But how powerful was that HP laptop? The one that got 7 hours when Apple was getting 4.5? I hope you aren't comparing a consumer laptop to a Professional laptop because if you are you just need to stop... now. Seriously before I throw up my lovely breakfast

Macs? Professional? lmao Sorry, if you want to say the MacBook "Pro" line is actually "professional grade", then you need to compare it to HP, Dell, and Lenovo's professional lines. The MacBook "Pro" won't stand a chance. You're talking about computers that are built like tanks, not soft aluminum, quad core processors, workstation quality GPUs, 3 year standard warranties with on site service standard. I could go on. The MacBook "Pro" is nothing more than a pretty consumer system with "Pro" thrown on the label so Apple can charge more. Oh, and its more fashion accessory than real computer.

My HP laptop compared to the Mac I had at the time? Well, let's see. I got that HP right before Apple replaced my MacBook for the first time thanks to their awful mail-in service. Both had 2GHz Core 2 Duos. The Mac had 1GB of RAM. HP had 2GB. Mac had Intel GMA 950 integrated graphics, HP had 128MB dedicated GeForce 8400M GS. Mac had 2 USB ports and a mini DVI port requiring an adapter to be used with any external display. HP had built-in VGA, S-Video, and HDMI (with audio!), 3 USB, full size express card, 5-in-1 card reader, Firewire 400, and a fingerprint scanner. Oh and both had built-in cameras. Mac was VGA quality, HP was 1.3MP. HP also had a TV tuner with dongle to control any set top box and 40GB more HDD space. Both had DVD writers, though the HP had "Lightscribe". As far as cost goes, the HP was about $500 less than the Mac.

Just because Ebay and Amazon sell computers for dirt cheap doesn't mean the companies that designed them do.

Well, I don't use eBay. But Amazon, unless buying from the Amazon Marketplace, Newegg, TigerDirect, Fry's, etc. all sell directly from the manufacturer with full manufacturer warranty. And if a problem arises, dealing with them is the same as with Apple. If you're within the return window you return the defective unit. If you're not within the return window then you deal with the manufacturer for support. Not everyone lives near an Apple Store.

Kristenn
Nov 28, 2010, 05:29 PM
Whats wrong with Newegg? I'll tell you. Nothing. But you're comparing Apple's direct prices to Newegg's. Not to Lenovo's. The MacBook Pro IS a professional grade laptop even if you don't think it is.

As for discribing a laptop as a tank ummm yeah no comment :rolleyes:

If Apple's built quality is so horrible why is it every time I google for the most reliable PC Apple is always in the list of top 5 on multiple websites? Just because you've had bad luck it doesn't mean everyone else has.

Okay so you DO own Apple products but you sound like a smelly troll to me. No offense.

I got 4 and a half hours with wifi on, bluetooth on, screen %50 but I can use the screen comfortably at %20 I don't see what the problem is.

What kind of work are you doing on your laptop that 3.5 hours of real world use is enough? Forgive me for being confused but 5 hours for me is just barely enough at the end of the day.

False hype around Mac OS X? There isn't any hype that I know of. They tell you about it and people like it or they don't. Mac OS X is fine for me. If it isn't for you that doesn't mean what Apple says about it is false.

Thank you. I hardly ever read the entire thread by angry mob people. There isn't proof that those picturing weren't pulled from google images so of course I was going to ask. Wouldn't you? Or maybe I'm just paranoid?

Macs are hardly fashion accessories. It boots up to the desktop in a little under 20 seconds first rattle out of the bag. Pretty "Pro" in my opinion.

As for the ram statement. Have you ever noticed that Mac OS X uses less ram than Windows? The only reason the standered ram was bumped is because of Vista. The Macs came with enough ram. I bet that Mac with 1GB ran faster than that PC with 2GB did while running Windows Vista. Actually you don't need to answer that because I already tested that a year ago myself. The Mac even had a slower processor.

Apparently buying from Frys was your mistake. If you're buying stuff at a discount you may as well be buying stuff refurbished. Since it seems to be such a problem for you.

I'd best stop feeding the troll now. I should take my own advice on that.

tablo13
Nov 28, 2010, 05:41 PM
Well, try finding a computer manufacturer who would exchange you with a new computer, by using warranty, not returns. :rolleyes: Then would you be happy?

mosx
Nov 28, 2010, 07:00 PM
Whats wrong with Newegg? I'll tell you. Nothing. But you're comparing Apple's direct prices to Newegg's. Not to Lenovo's.

First, whats your point? Are you really trying to nitpick and say that its somehow better to buy directly from the manufacturer versus a different store? With Apple it makes no difference, since they control prices everywhere. In fact, it might be better to buy Apple products from a different retailer so you can get a 30 day return window and no restocking fee. Acer and Asus don't sell directly to customers, they only go through third party retailers. Lenovo only sells custom units on their website, not pre-built ready to go systems. Thats not an uncommon practice.

The MacBook Pro IS a professional grade laptop even if you don't think it is.

How is the MacBook "Pro" a professional grade system? It comes with low-end consumer grade graphics, in some cases integrated graphics. It doesn't have full size ExpressCard, doesn't have eSATA, doesn't have any sort of other card slots, matte screens cost extra, theres no option for RGBLED backlighting, it doesn't come with 3 year warranty standard that also covers damage and on-site service, they can't be upgraded to 16GB of RAM or have dual HDDs without removing the optical drive, theres no option for blu-ray writer, no option for built-in 3G service, no replaceable battery, no option for more rugged casing to with-stand more extreme environments… would you like me to go on? I certainly can.

The worst part is AppleCare. All it is is an extension of a basic one year warranty that Apple will try to void at any cost. Have a little scratch in that soft aluminum case? Void. A little mark on the top of your case by the Apple logo? Oh thats abuse, void. With other PC manufacturers you'll get real warranty support for everything and 3 years is standard. Right now at HP you can get a 3 year accidental warranty with IN HOME service for $165 for their consumer notebooks.

The so-called MacBook "Pro" doesn't even have features that run of the mill consumer notebooks have. Like eSATA, blu-ray readers, modern GPUs that can actually run 3D applications at native resolutions, support for more than one HDD with an optical drive in place, USB 3.0, true quad core CPUs, multi-card readers, replaceable batteries, etc. Again, need I go on?

I got 4 and a half hours with wifi on, bluetooth on, screen %50 but I can use the screen comfortably at %20 I don't see what the problem is.

Good for you. I like being able to see my screen.

What kind of work are you doing on your laptop that 3.5 hours of real world use is enough? Forgive me for being confused but 5 hours for me is just barely enough at the end of the day.

Well, as I said, I'm always around plugs of some kind. So battery life isn't an issue. And if I do need extra battery life, my HP has two batteries. A 3.5 hour battery that still gets about that much in real world use after 3 years and a 7 hour battery that also gets about that much still after all this time.

Plus both batteries recharge extremely fast. As I said before, the 3.5 hour battery can recharge from dead in about the same amount of time it takes my MacBook battery to recharge from 70% remaining.

It's also not a good idea to run your batteries dead all the time. So sitting there using your system all day on battery is less than ideal and a good way to kill the battery fast. Especially with an Apple battery. I know that from experience.

False hype around Mac OS X? There isn't any hype that I know of. They tell you about it and people like it or they don't. Mac OS X is fine for me. If it isn't for you that doesn't mean what Apple says about it is false.

All the nonsense about being more stable than Windows, more capable, etc. I've never had Vista or Windows 7 crash on me, and the last time I had XP crash on me was when I was experimenting with a scanner I knew wouldn't work in XP right after it was released. OS X, however, I have had crash on me randomly for no apparent reason. Just moving the mouse cursor or emptying the trash of picture files.

Plus I can think of many things Windows can do that OS X can't. Like play modern video.

There isn't proof that those picturing weren't pulled from google images so of course I was going to ask. Wouldn't you? Or maybe I'm just paranoid?

Are you really going to stoop that low?

Macs are hardly fashion accessories. It boots up to the desktop in a little under 20 seconds first rattle out of the bag. Pretty "Pro" in my opinion.

Theres no way you have total 20 second boot time. It takes 11-13 seconds just for the Apple logo to appear after pressing the power button. On a fresh install of Snow Leopard without any extra junk like useless printer drivers or language translations, on my 320GB 7200RPM drive I put in myself, it takes about 36 seconds after I have all of my apps installed and music put on. Guess what? Windows 7 on the same hardware also takes about 36 seconds. On my HP with its old 160GB 5400RPM drive it takes Windows 7 about 41 seconds to boot.

As for the ram statement. Have you ever noticed that Mac OS X uses less ram than Windows?

So you demonstrate the fact that you don't understand how Windows works.

On a fresh boot of Snow Leopard, out of 4GB of RAM, I have 3GB free. On Windows 7 on the same system, I have 3GB free. OS X uses less RAM? I don't think so. Plus Windows has SuperFetch and other technologies that cache your most used apps, so they open instantly and run faster, hence the reason it appears Windows uses more RAM, but really does. That "used" memory is freed instantly if another app needs it.

The only reason the standered ram was bumped is because of Vista. The Macs came with enough ram.

No, PCs started shipping with more RAM because of competition and the need for more memory. Did you ever run Leopard on 1GB of RAM? It was dog slow. The OS itself took up half the memory. Open up a browser and iTunes and your RAM was gone.

I bet that Mac with 1GB ran faster than that PC with 2GB did while running Windows Vista. Actually you don't need to answer that because I already tested that a year ago myself. The Mac even had a slower processor.

It's funny you say that because I had the exact opposite experience. I had two white MacBooks that had 1GB of RAM and Intel graphics. I ran Vista on both of them along with Leopard on both of them. Vista ran faster than Leopard on both systems. Tiger (only ran it on the first system) ran faster than Vista, but no faster than XP on that same system.

Apparently buying from Frys was your mistake. If you're buying stuff at a discount you may as well be buying stuff refurbished. Since it seems to be such a problem for you.

What discount did I get from Fry's on my iPod nano 6G? It was 149.00 before taxes and $163.53 after taxes. It was no different there than if I had bought it at the Apple store, except Fry's gave me a 30 day return window I should have taken advantage of.

Well, try finding a computer manufacturer who would exchange you with a new computer, by using warranty, not returns

HP did that for me. And that system has outlasted 3 Macs.

Kristenn
Nov 28, 2010, 07:18 PM
Batteries are meant to be drained completely at least once a month. It's called a full recharge cycle. My battery has 268 cycles and still gets 4 hours of battery life.

As for Mac OS X crashing the way you described, sounds like user error to me. I have Leopard running on a 1Ghz G4 with 1GB of RAM and it isn't "dog slow" at all.

I think you've completed your rant multiple times over and instead of reposting what I already posted to make my point like you have I'm just going to suggest you leave. You've made your choice.

Also, the google images picture thing is something called sarcasm. Commonly used on planet earth. You should look it up.

The point about frys is you are saying Apple charges BLAH BLAH BLAH and comparing Apple to something bought from Frys. My point is I could go to Amazon or Ebay and get a Mac for around that price too. I bet you can't get that lenovo from their website for the price marked on Frys.

I will leave you to your ranting. Maybe someone else will feed you for a while.

BTW Snow leopard is currently using 1.5 GB of my 4GB of ram at the moment.

mosx
Nov 28, 2010, 07:40 PM
Batteries are meant to be drained completely at least once a month. It's called a full recharge cycle. My battery has 268 cycles and still gets 4 hours of battery life.

It's generally every 30 cycles. Not once a month.

Good for you. My MacBook battery had 170 cycles on it and it swelled up like a balloon and died. It's a common problem with the 2008 unibody systems, but Apple doesn't care. The same way governments had to get involve and force action for the iBook G3 and iBook G4 problems years ago. Apple won't do a thing unless they're legally required to do so, and even then they take their own interpretation of the law.

As for Mac OS X crashing the way you described, sounds like user error to me.

User error? Yeah, sure is user error when you go to move the mouse cursor and the entire system comes crashing down. Or the system crashes when you hit "Empty Trash" when the trash is filled with pictures. Or when you click "Burn" in a "Burn Folder" (Tiger) and the system locks up.

I have Leopard running on a 1Ghz G4 with 1GB of RAM and it isn't "dog slow" at all.

Well, if you've only ever used Macs your entire life then you haven't ever experienced a truly "fast" system.

I think you've completed your rant multiple times over and instead of reposting what I already posted to make my point like you have I'm just going to suggest you leave. You've made your choice.

Nah, I want people to hear my HONEST story about what Apple did to me.

The point about frys is you are saying Apple charges BLAH BLAH BLAH and comparing Apple to something bought from Frys. My point is I could go to Amazon or Ebay and get a Mac for around that price too. I bet you can't get that lenovo from their website for the price marked on Frys.

Sigh, doesn't anyone read?

If you buy a heavily discounted Mac from ebay it is used. Apple controls prices on their products. It doesn't matter if you buy it from Amazon, Fry's, Newegg, Best Buy, etc., it will be virtually the same price (maybe different in either way by $5 or so) everywhere and it won't matter what product it is. In fact, when I got my nano, I paid MORE for it by going to Fry's than the closest Apple store because sales taxes are higher in Los Angeles County, where Fry's is located, than San Bernardino County, where the closest Apple store is.

BTW Snow leopard is currently using 1.5 GB of my 4GB of ram at the moment.

Good for you. I have 1.67GB of RAM free out of 4GB on my Mac right now. Safari is eating 362MB of RAM even though I only have one tab open! Talk about memory leaks. iTunes is at 186.7MB. Other than those I have Adium with a couple of chat windows open and Mail. Thats it.

van2010rulz
Nov 28, 2010, 07:54 PM
Nah, I want people to hear my HONEST story about what Apple did to me.

Everybody has heard your honest story. People have given your their honest stories, now move on! I respect your story about what has happened to you. You my friend had some bad luck. Most people I've heard from had been happy with their Apple Products. Please just move on.

hcho3
Nov 28, 2010, 08:57 PM
I don't understand why people always cry about refurbished or new units. Everything is old unit at the moment your unbox and touch it with your dirty hands. There, it's used.

Refurbished model is fine for me as long as they are carefully inspected and they are. Sometimes, there are better than new ones.

galstaph
Nov 28, 2010, 10:03 PM
Macs? Professional? lmao Sorry, if you want to say the MacBook "Pro" line is actually "professional grade", then you need to compare it to HP, Dell, and Lenovo's professional lines. The MacBook "Pro" won't stand a chance. You're talking about computers that are built like tanks, not soft aluminum, quad core processors, workstation quality GPUs, 3 year standard warranties with on site service standard. I could go on. The MacBook "Pro" is nothing more than a pretty consumer system with "Pro" thrown on the label so Apple can charge more. Oh, and its more fashion accessory than real computer.

(I know... I shouldn't feed the troll....)
built like tanks might be a bit of an overstatement. most of the hp/dell/lenovos are plastic. My mbp's aluminium construction is a blessing to me, it may scratch, and dent it hit, but I personally am grateful apple went with it, I've had my mbp deflect a speaker from hitting my toddler after she pulled it down on herself, a small dent on the top of the display that does not affect performance is a great exchange for her not getting hurt. Do I worry about my applecare, yes and no. If I have to I can get it fixed, it still does all I need it to do.

BTW The first laptop that comes to mind as 'built like a tank' is not a dell inspiron or lenovo thinkpad it is a panasonic toughbook, (or an AMREL, or a Dell E6400) and that definitely is NOT a sub $1000 computer nor does it use quad core i7 processors (neither do dell ruggedized laptops). What does that say about a mil-spec computer these days... core 2 duo is still fine for dell for 4K+, panasonic will sell you an i3 or lower level i5 for 4k+... hmmm...
maybe we don't need to have the latest and greatest to just get work done (assuming we're not surfing mac forums all day that is).

Kristenn
Nov 28, 2010, 10:30 PM
Yeah I use Windows every week. I don't hate Windows either. But I'm smart enough to know which one runs faster on slower hardware.

santaliqueur
Nov 29, 2010, 12:45 AM
Yeah, sure is user error when you go to move the mouse cursor and the entire system comes crashing down.


That's my favorite complaint. No basis in reality at all, yet he keeps mentioning it.

Too bad you have an irrational fear of Paypal, you could sell your Apple gear for nearly what you paid for it. Or, you could keep getting all this "attention" from us by complaining. How does it feel to be a source of negativity? People are not interested in what you want to say.

polaris20
Nov 29, 2010, 07:50 AM
How long had you owned it? Mine was 7 weeks old and NOT purchased from an Apple store. I avoid the Apple store at all costs if possible.

Several weeks, and I bought it from an Apple store, because there's no reason not to.

Oh I have. I've already covered up the Apple and MacBook logos on my Mac. And I'm taking other steps to Apple-free my life. I'll be selling what I can here in the coming weeks.

I look forward to it.

The last person I've known to own a Mac bought a PC yesterday. The most ardent Mac fanboy I knew recently purchased a PC that puts all MacBook Pros to shame. 18.4" screen, quad core Core i7, GTX 460m, 500GB HDD, 8GB of RAM, blu-ray, 1080p screen. All for $200 less than the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro.

Working in IT, that machine would be utterly useless to me, because I travel a lot for business, configuring networks and working on virtualization environments and what not. I need a machine that isn't the size of a coffee table, yet still runs several virtual machines reliably. That would be a MacBook Pro 13, or a Thinkpad T410, which cost about the same. I chose the Mac out of preference, but it could be done with either. However the Mac interacts much better with Linux machines that Windows does in my opinion.

You continue to not understand that specs aren't the only factor with a computer. You continue to not comprehend preference, needs, and workflow. I know I'm farting in the wind here with you though, but if the super awesome powerful PC doesn't behave as I like it to and run the apps I want it to (specifically, not an "equivalent") then it's not as productive to me. But seeing as how you don't work in IT, or deal with productivity, you wouldn't understand that.

I am actually. The last system HP gave me is now 3 years old. Batteries are still like new and its outlived 3 Macs. When the optical drive in it went bad, I called HP and they sent me a new one. It took less than a minute for me to swap the drive out. When Apple's firmware update killed my MacBook's DVD writer, I had to send the system in and wait a week. When it came back it was scratched on the bottom and I had to take it to the Apple store to have the case replaced.

Awesome. I've still got a stack of dead HP's just days over their warranty. Pieces of crap, all of them, and these are the $2000 business PC's, not the even crappier consumer junk. Have fun with that! Luckily we're almost entirely switched over to Thinkpads.

It's funny how you continue to deliberately misread my posts after all the debates we've had.

I bought the iPad on launch day. Had no idea that Apple was deliberately holding back the hardware until the iPhone 4 announcement.

Yet you were happy with the specs enough to buy it on release day, and enjoy the product. There was enough speculation about it having a camera, and when it didn't, many people bitched, and didn't buy one. Yet you bought one anyway. Why? What fool buys something that doesn't fit their needs?

You continually amaze me with your total lack of logic. You continually buy stuff from a company you hate (I count at least 3 or 4 since you openly started trolling here). Who does that? It's positively absurd.

I hate HP stuff, because I personally had a lot of issues supporting their laptops, even though their servers were/are decent. So I stopped supporting the company by not continuing to buy their products. I had the authority to do that, so I did.

Just move along, Mosx. Go enjoy your HP's, and stop trolling here.

polaris20
Nov 29, 2010, 09:18 AM
(I know... I shouldn't feed the troll....)
built like tanks might be a bit of an overstatement. most of the hp/dell/lenovos are plastic. My mbp's aluminium construction is a blessing to me, it may scratch, and dent it hit, but I personally am grateful apple went with it, I've had my mbp deflect a speaker from hitting my toddler after she pulled it down on herself, a small dent on the top of the display that does not affect performance is a great exchange for her not getting hurt. Do I worry about my applecare, yes and no. If I have to I can get it fixed, it still does all I need it to do.

BTW The first laptop that comes to mind as 'built like a tank' is not a dell inspiron or lenovo thinkpad it is a panasonic toughbook, (or an AMREL, or a Dell E6400) and that definitely is NOT a sub $1000 computer nor does it use quad core i7 processors (neither do dell ruggedized laptops). What does that say about a mil-spec computer these days... core 2 duo is still fine for dell for 4K+, panasonic will sell you an i3 or lower level i5 for 4k+... hmmm...
maybe we don't need to have the latest and greatest to just get work done (assuming we're not surfing mac forums all day that is).

The HP workstation laptops we've had (we're talking $3000+ here) have been utter garbage, and constantly have been worked on, replaced, etc. Good thing we have that 3 year warranty! They all needed it. The Dell M series workstations were similarly unreliable. The W510's we're now using are pretty darn solid though, and an excellent option if you need that sort of machine.

santaliqueur
Nov 30, 2010, 12:08 PM
PC World just released (http://www.pcworld.com/article/211074/the_tech_brands_you_can_trust.html) their annual reliability survey. Apple on top, HP on the bottom.

polaris20
Nov 30, 2010, 01:17 PM
PC World just released (http://www.pcworld.com/article/211074/the_tech_brands_you_can_trust.html) their annual reliability survey. Apple on top, HP on the bottom.

Here, let me save Mosx some trouble. He'd say that "PCWorld lost its credibility a long time ago", or "the survey had a flawed selection base" or something like that.

It really doesn't matter what he's presented with; his anecdotal evidence >*

santaliqueur
Nov 30, 2010, 01:37 PM
Here, let me save Mosx some trouble. He'd say that "PCWorld lost its credibility a long time ago", or "the survey had a flawed selection base" or something like that.

It really doesn't matter what he's presented with; his anecdotal evidence >*

Polaris, did you consider the possibility that PC World is full of Apple Zealots and blind fanboys? That could have something to do with it.

mosx
Dec 1, 2010, 02:24 AM
Several weeks, and I bought it from an Apple store, because there's no reason not to.

I can think of plenty of reasons to not go to the Apple Store. Including the obnoxious hipster employees who think they know more about everything in general than you do.

Working in IT, that machine would be utterly useless to me, because I travel a lot for business, configuring networks and working on virtualization environments and what not. I need a machine that isn't the size of a coffee table, yet still runs several virtual machines reliably.

The size of a coffee table? Please. As I've pointed out many times in the past, the 13" MacBooks are not much smaller overall than their 15" counterparts or other PCs on the market. They're actually quite large and heavy for 13" systems. Infact…

That would be a MacBook Pro 13, or a Thinkpad T410, which cost about the same. I chose the Mac out of preference, but it could be done with either

That Thinkpad has a larger screen than the MacBook "Pro", significantly better dedicated graphics, and it has a Core i5. And its only slightly larger than the MBP by a hair in either direction. Oh and better yet? It's a lot cheaper!

However the Mac interacts much better with Linux machines that Windows does in my opinion.

Definitely a user issue.

You continue to not understand that specs aren't the only factor with a computer. You continue to not comprehend preference, needs, and workflow.

We've gone over this before. OS X offers no advantage in "work flow". There is nothing that OS X can do that Windows cannot, so the "needs" argument is out of the window. The only reason to choose a Mac over a Windows system is if you want something thats pretty rather than functional. If you care more about style than having a tool actually perform like a tool.

Going back to "workflow", isn't it hilarious that Apple is touting fullscreen apps as the next big thing in OS X? How many decades ago did Windows do that?

That reminds me of how Apple made a big deal out of pre-emptive multi-tasking in OS X. Welcome to half a decade earlier in Windows.

but if the super awesome powerful PC doesn't behave as I like it to and run the apps I want it to (specifically, not an "equivalent") then it's not as productive to me.

Thats your opinion.

However, again, there is nothing that OS X can do that Windows cannot. You'd be hard pressed to find a good OS X app that isn't on Windows or based on a superior Windows version, such as Office.

But seeing as how you don't work in IT, or deal with productivity, you wouldn't understand that.

You still have no idea what I do. I've never told you and theres no need to. Why? Because, unlike some people, I don't need to brag about what I do to people who I will never meet and I couldn't possibly care less about.

However, based on your comments in all of the arguments we've had, I have far more experience in YOUR field than you do.

I've still got a stack of dead HP's just days over their warranty. Pieces of crap, all of them, and these are the $2000 business PC's, not the even crappier consumer junk. Have fun with that! Luckily we're almost entirely switched over to Thinkpads.

HP sells more computers in one quarter than Apple does in a year. HP sells more computers in a year than there are Mac users in total. It's simple math that there will be more failed HP systems more visibly in the world than there will be Macs.

Yet you were happy with the specs enough to buy it on release day, and enjoy the product. There was enough speculation about it having a camera, and when it didn't, many people bitched, and didn't buy one. Yet you bought one anyway. Why? What fool buys something that doesn't fit their needs?

Ask all of the people who spend 2-3x as much on a fashion accessory computer why they do that.

The iPad was great at first. But then Jobs announced the iPhone 4 and it became clear as day to anyone unaffected by the reality distortion field that they had deliberately held back the iPad in favor of selling iPhone 4. Even some of Apple's more rabid fans complained.

You continually amaze me with your total lack of logic. You continually buy stuff from a company you hate (I count at least 3 or 4 since you openly started trolling here). Who does that? It's positively absurd.

Since my first run in with Apple support in 2007 I bought exactly ZERO products until this year. Good job knowing the facts and making more assumptions without knowing, well, reality.

The last Apple product I had purchased was my iPod nano 3G right as I started to experience Apple's "support". I was given an iPod touch as a gift several months later. But the last product I actually bought from Apple until this year was the iPod nano 3G.

Up until the iPad, any new product I had gotten from Apple was a warranty replacement because they royally screwed up warranty service, or the one gift. Thats why I had 2 more Macs after that incident. Because they screwed up bad and replaced those units.

I have not bought another Apple computer and I never will unless some strange twist of fate requires me to. Even if I am given one as a gift I will not open it and I will return it to the store for a refund or store credit.

The iPad was announced and I wanted one. I got it. Other than being short changed on hardware and not knowing it until the iPhone 4 was announced, it's given me no problems.

I bought the iPhone 4 because my original iPhone died after 3 years of very heavy use. I needed a smartphone. Blackberries are absolute junk. Android phones still aren't up to snuff and the market fragmentation and lack of manufacturer updates makes them not reliable enough in my eyes.

With the iPod nano.. well, I hadn't had any issues with the iPhone 4 or iPad, and I've never had any REAL issues with the iPods in the past. The 3G iPod nano screen tilt issue was cosmetic, though Apple should have done something about it. But other than that, the device performed 100% perfectly. My original iPod mini is nearly 6 years old now and still holds a full charge and the HDD still works. After thinking about it, even though I was pissed off (and am again), I considered Apple's position on my Mac's battery and gave them a pass. I thought maybe things would have changed in AppleCare and the way Apple treats customers since they did replace my optical drive out of warranty, even though that was caused by their firmware update killing the drive. I thought "you know, it's been a couple of years since I've had a REAL run in with AppleCare. I'm sure things have changed". Boy was I wrong. Not only had it not changed, it got significantly worse! This iPod nano will be the last Apple product I purchase if I can help it. I will keep my iPhone 4 but get some sort of protection to cover up the Apple logo. I won't even buy apps from the app store if I can't. Theres nothing worth buying anyway. The games leave a lot to be desired and everything else is useless. As soon as an Android device with a good camera and vanilla Android comes along I'll get it.

I hate HP stuff, because I personally had a lot of issues supporting their laptops, even though their servers were/are decent. So I stopped supporting the company by not continuing to buy their products. I had the authority to do that, so I did.

Good for you. I've done the same with Apple products. A family owned small business I work with was interested in switching their entire business over to Mac minis with a Mac mini server. But I told them how Apple treated me in the past and now. They immediately lost interest and I pointed them in the direction of an upgrade path that will cost them several thousand dollars less and last several years longer thanks to better hardware. They'll also be getting better on-site support and years of warranty/support coverage at no additional cost.

Polaris, did you consider the possibility that PC World is full of Apple Zealots and blind fanboys? That could have something to do with it.

Thats basically it right there.

Kristenn
Dec 1, 2010, 04:11 AM
Wow dude. Then leave.

Maybe you should do research on a computer and its OS again before going out and buying it because of "hype" around OS X. If you bought because of hype you DESERVE to be disappointed!

Why did you come back *insert certain amount of days here* and reply just to say basically the same thing you have been saying the whole thread?

Also, I find it hard to believe ANY business would take the word of one person (worker or not) about their next purchase of servers or anything at all.

polaris20
Dec 1, 2010, 09:12 AM
I had a long response, but really, it's a waste of time. Mosx, well done on the trolling. Let me know when you've got an ounce of a clue in IT/Enterprise computing. You don't, and therefore any and all of you OPINIONS are completely irrelevant to me, and as usual, to everyone else.

Tell me, how many Windows NT/2000/2003/2008 AD domains have you set up? How many Exchange 5.5/2003/2007/2010 servers have you deployed? What's your preferred bare metal hypervisor, and why? What method of connection do you prefer for your datastores, iSCSI, fiber channel, or NFS, and why? How many BES servers have you deployed? How many Citrix XenApp servers have you deployed? What DMS do you prefer and why? How many Linux/LAMP stacks have you deployed? What's your preferred distro? What method do you prefer for imaging hundreds of workstations at once? What SSO method for Posix-based OSes do you prefer? How many SQL databases are you responsible for? Do you prefer MSSQL, MySQL, PostgreSQL, or Oracle, and why?

You'll refuse to answer, because you have NO experience in IT. None. Yet you continue to be belligerent and arrogant.

You also do nothing on this site but complain. How about contributing more, besides the whining?

Polaris, did you consider the possibility that PC World is full of Apple Zealots and blind fanboys? That could have something to do with it.

Did you read what you linked? A poll of PCWorld readers. I guess all the PCWorld readers are secretly Apple zealots. :rolleyes:

santaliqueur
Dec 1, 2010, 05:52 PM
Thats basically it right there.

I was being sarcastic. Guess the "reality distortion field" clouded your vision.

Hint to trolls: As soon as you use the term reality distortion field, you lose 100% of your credibility.

mosx is a simple troll who won't give up until the thread is locked. I'm fine with you having your anti-Apple opinions, nobody forced you to buy anything. What is annoying is that you won't take your opinions elsewhere. There are plenty of forums where you can get many more people to agree with you. Where everyone doesn't hate you because you are acting like an arrogant jerk. If that's the attention you want and the attitude to enjoy spreading, I consider myself lucky I don't know you in real life.

The best part is, even though you would never admit it, we all KNOW you will continue to purchase Apple products :o

polaris20
Dec 1, 2010, 07:47 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I must admit I didn't immediately pick up the sarcasm immediately, so apologies for being snarky.

And of course he'll keep buying Apple products. He's already bought $800+ this year alone, despite his previous multipage tirades.

I bought a midi controller from a company. It didn't work as they claimed in terms of sensitivity. Their support sucked. They wouldn't take it back. I sold it on eBay. Months later, they came out with new firmware that supposedly fixed many of the issues. Despite this midi controller being a good fit for my needs, I didn't buy one again. Why? Because I'm not a friggin' sucker like some people apparently are.

santaliqueur
Dec 1, 2010, 08:02 PM
[SIZE=1]
I bought a midi controller from a company. It didn't work as they claimed in terms of sensitivity. Their support sucked. They wouldn't take it back. I sold it on eBay.

But...you sold it on eBay? Sucker! Paypal hackers must have hijacked your account and stolen your CC info. Only suckers use eBay and Paypal. It's only a matter of time before you start having your identity stolen.

*mosx logic was used in the creation of this post, some brain cells may have been destroyed for using this method of thinking*

mosx
Dec 1, 2010, 09:18 PM
Funny how my last post was deleted

You'll refuse to answer, because you have NO experience in IT. None. Yet you continue to be belligerent and arrogant.

As I've said before, I have no one to impress and I couldn't care less what you or others think of me. You're simply resorting to this argument, as you have many times before, because I've proven you wrong again.

You're making assumptions based on your knack for picking and choosing what you want to read and thats that. You don't know reality, so be quiet.

Wow OP, your so stubborn.
You seem to have nothing better to do in life than just troll and intentionally piss people off on this form by making super long posts.
For the billionth time, just move on, and leave.


You really must not understand English too well when people say "Not everyone wants a PC".

No one is dissing you about having a PC yet you continue to endlessly bit** about Macs and how they are terrible and how Mac users are stupid for using a Mac. Just leave.

You obviously didn't read my posts. I DO own a Mac. And I've posted pictures of it on numerous occasions.

someone28624
Dec 1, 2010, 11:04 PM
Don't get me started on that crap.

First, I didn't buy it from Apple. I bought it at Frys. Second, it doesn't say ANYWHERE on the box that this device is subject to those terms and using it means you agree to them. It doesn't even mention the fact that iTunes pops up a license agreement for using the iPod software. The only thing mentioned on the box is that iTunes is subject to a license agreement, nothing else.

And finally, again, the Apple Store employee assured me (and I have a witness willing to testify to that fact) that I would be receiving a new retail unit the same way I would have if they had stock in store that day.

I can understand a refurbished unit if the iPod was close to the end of the warranty period. But it was only 7 weeks old, 3 weeks passed the return window.

I paid for new. I was assured I would get new. I want new or a pro-rated refund for the difference between new and refurbished.

I would prefer to have my money back entirely, seeing as how these things are destined to fail.

As far as other things go, I've actually had the optical drive in my Mac (and PC) die and both Apple and HP replaced them with new parts, judging on the build date, serial numbers, and other factors.

Refurbished would be fine if Apple wants to refund me the difference in cost.

The unit you would have received had Apple had it in stock that day would have been refurbished. I guarantee they had plenty of brand new iPod Nanos at the store they were selling people. They had no refurbished ones to trade you.

Many companies only have 30 day warranties. You'd be SOL then, with no iPod at all.

Refurbs are often better as you know they were tested and work.

Apple cannot sell your 7 week iPod as new once it's fixed. It's not new. So why should they give you a brand new one?

My iPod Nano broke literally 2 days after I got it. I got a refurbished one. I didn't care. It looked brand new. The refurbished one worked. My 2 day old one didn't. Therefore, I benefited.

If you want to say Apple's policies shouldn't matter because you bought it at Fry's, then take it back to Fry's and see what they'll do for you.

someone28624
Dec 2, 2010, 12:05 AM
I'm anxiously awaiting the thread where he's never buying a Honda again, despite owning 2 Civics, an Accord, and a CR-V because the radio is his Civic he drove for 2 months broke and they won't give him a brand new car. Besides, Hondas are overprices, Kias are so much cheaper.

van2010rulz
Dec 2, 2010, 12:13 AM
OMG mosx. Please we have heard your story.

As I've said before, I have no one to impress and I couldn't care less what you or others think of me. You're simply resorting to this argument, as you have many times before, because I've proven you wrong again.

If you couldn't care less about what we have to say then please leave. I am trying to say this nicely. Just because we have our own opinions doesn't mean we are wrong.

You're making assumptions based on your knack for picking and choosing what you want to read and thats that. You don't know reality, so be quiet.


So that's what it is now. You want us all to shut up. This isn't the place for you. If you want us to be quiet, then maybe you should leave.

I went digging around and found a thread you made when you first bought your Mac.

Something you said in that thread was

I had an HP DV5030us notebook. I had so many problems with it. The motherboard finally croaked after not even a year, and it decided to kill external devices that were connected at the time.


Didn't you just say in this thread that:

HP sells more computers in one quarter than Apple does in a year. HP sells more computers in a year than there are Mac users in total. It's simple math that there will be more failed HP systems more visibly in the world than there will be Macs.


Not saying that HP is bad or anything, but you had a crappy HP laptop!

It simply just works and it doesn't come loaded with spyware and adware! I was able to turn it on and start using it! Not like my HP where I had to turn it on, wait half an hour for all the trial software and ads to load, reboot with XP DVD and reformat and not actually use my new PC until 6 hours later.


This was also written in your post about your new Mac and what you didn't like about your HP.


We've gone over this before. OS X offers no advantage in "work flow". There is nothing that OS X can do that Windows cannot, so the "needs" argument is out of the window. The only reason to choose a Mac over a Windows system is if you want something thats pretty rather than functional. If you care more about style than having a tool actually perform like a tool.

Going back to "workflow", isn't it hilarious that Apple is touting fullscreen apps as the next big thing in OS X? How many decades ago did Windows do that?

That reminds me of how Apple made a big deal out of pre-emptive multi-tasking in OS X. Welcome to half a decade earlier in Windows.


This is what you said in this thread.

But honestly, I'm right at home in OS X. It took me not even a full day to feel right at home. Everything works beautifully and I have yet to have any moments where I have found something I couldn't do in Windows. Infact, everything so far has ben better than Windows. It's amazing how ancient Windows XP feels now after using OS X for even just a few days. I mean, I've used it in the past. But you never get a real feel for it until you get it in your home, you know?

This is what you said in your brand new macbook post.

Right here your writing about how you love OSX. How it's better than Windows Xp. I know it's outdated, but you said it's better than Windows.


It's amazing how rude you are right now. In the post about your new macbook people were so nice to you. Congratulating you on your purchase. Now you yell at us because you think were wrong? What is your problem? You were like us at a point in time. Now you just yell at us. You think that you are smarter than us. Wow i would hate to work with you.

I rest my case...

gnasher729
Dec 2, 2010, 03:34 AM
It's amazing how rude you are right now. In the post about your new macbook people were so nice to you. Congratulating you on your purchase. Now you yell at us because you think were wrong? What is your problem? You were like us at a point in time. Now you just yell at us. You think that you are smarter than us. Wow i would hate to work with you.

I rest my case...

The fact that he made you post this does explain why apparently he doesn't get the same kind of service from Apple that other people get. You always interact with people, and in many many cases a store employee can decide to help you (even if it means bending the rules a bit) or can decide not to help you (even if it means bending the rules a bit), and they will do it. They are only human, after all.

SuperCachetes
Dec 2, 2010, 05:32 AM
The fact that he made you post this does explain why apparently he doesn't get the same kind of service from Apple that other people get. You always interact with people, and in many many cases a store employee can decide to help you (even if it means bending the rules a bit) or can decide not to help you (even if it means bending the rules a bit), and they will do it. They are only human, after all.

This.

IMHO they have outstanding customer service and take care of their customers, but if you prance in like a d-bag demanding the moon and stars, I'm sure they can shut you out. ...Not that furnishing a refurbished iPod for a two-month old one is even inappropriate in this case. :rolleyes:

The bottom line is that when it comes to Apple, for every bitter little axe-grinder, there are ten more converts that say "The reason my next computer will be a Mac is because they replaced my ______ free of charge, with no hassle."

cmvsm
Dec 2, 2010, 09:12 AM
As it has been said, if you are unhappy, move on to a Dell, HP, or whatever else, and leave the forum. Nothing that anyone here says is going to change your mind, and vice versa.

The only thing that is a FACT, is that my portfolio began with Apple stock only 5 years ago at $44 per share. It's over $300 now. Do the math genius.

polaris20
Dec 2, 2010, 03:07 PM
As it has been said, if you are unhappy, move on to a Dell, HP, or whatever else, and leave the forum. Nothing that anyone here says is going to change your mind, and vice versa.

The only thing that is a FACT, is that my portfolio began with Apple stock only 5 years ago at $44 per share. It's over $300 now. Do the math genius.

Actually, he'd be better off with a Lenovo or Asus, according to that PCWorld reader survey. Just sayin' ;)

And he won't move on. The trolling just isn't as fulfilling on other boards, apparently.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go shopping for a Chevy. I've had really bad experiences with their cars and their service before, but maybe they've changed! Why not throw more money at them?

wordoflife
Dec 2, 2010, 03:30 PM
You obviously didn't read my posts. I DO own a Mac. And I've posted pictures of it on numerous occasions.

Who are you joking? I didn't ask if you had a Mac in my last post
You obviously didn't read my previous post.

mosx
Dec 2, 2010, 05:13 PM
The unit you would have received had Apple had it in stock that day would have been refurbished. I guarantee they had plenty of brand new iPod Nanos at the store they were selling people. They had no refurbished ones to trade you.

Funny, because there was another woman in there having an issue with a previous generation iPod and they gave her a packaged new unit.

Many companies only have 30 day warranties. You'd be SOL then, with no iPod at all.

Couldn't be further from the truth. A one year warranty is industry standard across the board for electronics.

Refurbs are often better as you know they were tested and work

Press button and screen comes on. Yeah, lots of testing.

Apple cannot sell your 7 week iPod as new once it's fixed. It's not new. So why should they give you a brand new one?

I couldn't care less what Apple can or cannot do with the defective unit. I only care about the fact that I paid for new, I was promised new, and I did not get new.

Why do people put Apple on a pedestal? Acting as if Apple is something more than a company that is out to make money? "Apple can't do this if.." who cares? They certainly don't care about you beyond getting your money and how profitable of a customer you'd be.

So as I said, I couldn't care less about what Apple can do with that old unit. All I care about is the fact that they promised me a new replacement, I paid for a new unit, and I did not get new.

My iPod Nano broke literally 2 days after I got it. I got a refurbished one. I didn't care. It looked brand new. The refurbished one worked. My 2 day old one didn't. Therefore, I benefited.

No, you didn't benefit. You should have done the intelligent thing and returned it for a full refund then bought a new one if you still wanted one after the fact.

If you want to say Apple's policies shouldn't matter because you bought it at Fry's, then take it back to Fry's and see what they'll do for you.

Apple's STORE policies don't apply to me because I didn't purchase it there. On top of that, Apple's warranty policies are not presented prior to purchase or use of the unit.

Third, I was promised by a store employee that I would be getting a new unit. That overrides all policies, as verbal contracts in the state of California hold just as much water as written.

Mosx, the only thing you've successfully proven is your ignorance, arrogance, and utter lack of logic.

When you can actually demonstrate the ability to discern fact versus anecdotal evidence and extraordinarily limited experience, please let us know.

Same old tired argument that never works.

I'm anxiously awaiting the thread where he's never buying a Honda again, despite owning 2 Civics, an Accord, and a CR-V because the radio is his Civic he drove for 2 months broke and they won't give him a brand new car. Besides, Hondas are overprices, Kias are so much cheaper.

Thats just flat out stupid and makes no sense.

If you couldn't care less about what we have to say then please leave. I am trying to say this nicely. Just because we have our own opinions doesn't mean we are wrong.

I have yet to see someone arguing against me who is right ;)

And I'm here so people know what Apple is really like.

Not saying that HP is bad or anything, but you had a crappy HP laptop!

Yup. And they replaced it. And the system I ended up with is now over 3 years old. I never had to send it in for warranty service. However, every single Mac I've ever owned has to be sent out for warranty service and the battery in the one I have now swelled up. Despite that being a known defect and a fire hazard, Apple tells everyone it happens to that does not have AppleCare to pound sand.

This was also written in your post about your new Mac and what you didn't like about your HP.

That was true then. For the first system. Isn't true now. Besides, when you get a new Mac, you have to reinstall OS X to get rid of the several gigabytes worth of printer drivers and language translations that come with the system. Then you have to download several gigabytes worth of OS updates because the concept of small patches seems to allude Apple for all of their devices. Why patch it when you can force a whole OS download?

This is what you said in your brand new macbook post.

Right here your writing about how you love OSX. How it's better than Windows Xp. I know it's outdated, but you said it's better than Windows.

That was written right after I owned the Mac.

You know, its funny how people go and try to bring up these old posts time and time again. You really haven't read all of my posts, have you? Well, you probably have but you like to cherry pick your arguments.

That post was written right after I got the Mac. Right after. Before I noticed how unstable the OS was and how it even lacked hardware video acceleration, something Windows had since the 90s.

And at that point, XP felt ancient no matter what. Vista was out, and later that year, thanks to my MacBook(s) being in Apple's hands for months at a time, I transitioned to Vista and saw how much better it was then than Tiger and Leopard.

The fact that he made you post this does explain why apparently he doesn't get the same kind of service from Apple that other people get. You always interact with people, and in many many cases a store employee can decide to help you (even if it means bending the rules a bit) or can decide not to help you (even if it means bending the rules a bit), and they will do it. They are only human, after all.

Thats the thing. The store employee was great. The conversation basically was me starting it out by jokingly saying "I have the easiest problem you'll have all day". I showed him the iPod and said "The sleep/wake button got stuck". He said "Oh! First I've seen that happen!" Then immediately started the swapping process. Never was there any sort of confrontation or rudeness. We both cracked jokes, laughed. Etc. When he said they were out of stock and mail-in was an option I asked if it'd be new, he said yes. I said I'd do mail-in because I didn't want to drive that far again. Thats it.

Not that furnishing a refurbished iPod for a two-month old one is even inappropriate in this case

In your opinion.

But imagine if Microsoft did something like this. Apple fans would be all over it.

Before people say anything about Microsoft warranties, keep in mind that MS actually extended warranties on products, including the Xbox, BEFORE governments or lawsuits came into the picture. Unlike Apple.

The only thing that is a FACT, is that my portfolio began with Apple stock only 5 years ago at $44 per share. It's over $300 now. Do the math genius.

Good for you. I hope you enjoy the share price when the Apple bubble finally bursts and it all comes crashing down.

Actually, he'd be better off with a Lenovo or Asus, according to that PCWorld reader survey. Just saying'

I'd be better off with my own personally built system. I'm not buying any more systems that I don't build myself. I absolutely NEVER had issues with computers until I started buying systems that I did not build myself. Theres computers I built more than 10 years ago that are still in service and still running flawlessly on the original hardware.

Who are you joking? I didn't ask if you had a Mac in my last post
You obviously didn't read my previous post.

The way you worded your post made it seem as if you were doubting that fact.

But its freaking hilarious that you're here defending Apple when your own signature says your Mac is out being serviced.

wordoflife
Dec 2, 2010, 05:36 PM
But its freaking hilarious that you're here defending Apple when your own signature says your Mac is out being serviced.

I'm not defending Apple, I never was. I was defending my point of view saying that you are being overly anal about this whole situation.

It's freaking hilarious that you still can't seem to read/understand posts properly.

SuperCachetes
Dec 2, 2010, 07:18 PM
In your opinion.

And just about everybody else's. :rolleyes:

You paid for a new iPod, but you took a used one to get fixed. Sounds like you got one back in the same condition you arrived with. End of story.

I hate when employees are misinformed and mislead people, too - but if you quit buying stuff every time that happens to you, you eventually end up not a consumer. Good luck with that.

Twowheelfun
Dec 2, 2010, 10:16 PM
It sounds like you have had a pretty bad experience.

This seems as if it could have been handled much differently by all parties involved.

Fry's is notorious for re-packaging returned non-working merchandise which is why I stopped shopping there a long long time ago. AT&T had issues with selling used and even display iPhones as new as well.

The agent should have never promised you a new product. Almost all tech companies will use refurbished products when replacing and repairing merchandise. It is bad financial business to not do so.

Yes. you paid for a new iPod, you got what I'm assuming was a new iPod, however from you stating that there was no terms of service in the box is suspect. Every new ipod, iphone etc. comes with a fold-out booklet of information.

But assume everything there was ok, well your iPod is seven weeks old, it is now a "used" iPod. So if you get a refurbished one with all new parts in it with the same warranty, what is the problem? what if the only qualification of the refurbished product was that someone bought it, opened the packaging without ever even opening the box, decided they didn't want it and returned it?

Isn't this still a new product? Well Apple will again test it, (no, not by just turning it on, it will go through a full battery of tests) and then send it to a store as a refurbished model although this is essentially a new product. This could easily be the one that you receive as "refurbished"

I'm sorry but I just have to laugh at this one: "All I care about is the fact that they promised me a new replacement, I paid for a new unit, and I did not get new."

this sounds like a child who doesn't get to eat his dessert because he didn't eat his dinner.

Things don't always go as planned. Be flexible.

My mom bought a new Dell desktop, spent 3,000 on it with all the upgrades including their premium in-home service in case something went wrong.

Well she calls me up a couple of weeks later extremely upset. Her hard drive had died. She is a professional photographer and had transferred 10's of thousands of pictures to her "new" computer and the drive crashed before she was able to back them up. She had backups of all her other data, these were just more recent photos.

So after hours on the phone with Dell with someone in a different country who didn't understand what she was saying or what the error message was, they send someone out. He shows up, replaces her drive, tries to take the bad drive that I wouldn't let him do (we will send it back to them later), starts just the Windows install and leaves half way through it.

Needless to say, the windows install didn't complete. She then had a bad drive, a $3,000 2 week old desktop she couldn't use and was out a lot of additional time and money dealing with this issue.

I have been supporting, configuring, repairing and replacing PC's for almost 20 years now and had to spend my whole weekend getting her system back to the original state. So much for their premium service. She then had to spend about 3,000 more for a restore of her data directly off of the hard drive and no Dell wouldn't pay for it.

So what was her solution? Well she never bought a Dell again. She has now been using Apple for a while, has had some questions and issues and they have all gotten resolved. She is extremely happy.
Like you, she has 2 different means of support, drive an hour to the Apple store and speak with someone in person or Call support. She often chooses to call but can also go into the store. This is more than I can say for other companies. You can't go to dell, you can't go to HP or Sony, IBM (lenovo) and have them fix your product. You probably can't even call them for support and speak with anyone who really even understands what you're telling them. What do you do then?

However, with Apple, you can just go to your local store and have them repair it there, locally, in-house or in-the U.S.

Call their support? Oh they're based in the U.S. also and can work with any issue you are having. But you need to be NICE. People are much more willing to work with you when you're not yelling at them.

Me, before I had my first Apple product, built all my systems from the ground up and supported them. I never had any issues with them, they just took up a significant amount of time trying to install drivers, resolving compatibility issues, upgrading, changing, uninstalling, re-installing just to make things work. Again, I NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH IT. It is what I love to do.

Then I bought a Mac. I have multiple Apple systems now, desktops, laptops, time capsules, iPhones and iPads. I have NEVER had a problem with ANY of them at any point. This is one of the many reasons I buy their products.

I drive a Toyota, I have had 3 of them, Over 200,000 miles on each of them and no issues. Why should I get something else?

I then went out and bought a BMW, had some issues with it, expected it to be of a much better quality than my toyota. Was it? you're damn right it was. Did I still have some issues with it? Sure I did, however BMW bent over backwards to make them all right, gave me loaner cars, filled my car with gas when they returned it, picked me up if I needed it, dropped the loaner off to me when I needed it and resolved all the issues, not just because I paid much more than what my toyota cost but because I treated them with respect and was Nice.

My wife however, had a problem with her iPhone, she was nice to the support person, they said they would send her a new phone, they didn't. The refurb one had battery life issues within a week. She called back, was nice again. They assured her this time it would be a new phone. Surprise! It was!

My suggestions to you If you feel that Apple has such an inferior product based on your continued complaints above, don't buy Apple again.

However, if you would like to resolve your iPod issue or even your other laptop battery warping problem, call them, ask to speak with a product specialist. If he or she doesn't satisfactorily resolve the problem, ask to speak with Customer Relations.

They have the ability and the power to resolve almost any Apple issue you have. Believe it or not, Apple does want your business, they do want to make you happy whether or not you will shop with them in the future.

But most importantly, please do not act as I have quoted above. Nobody wants to work with someone who acts like that. BE NICE, be understanding, people make mistakes, explain your side of the issue, be nice and you will most likely get what you want.

van2010rulz
Dec 3, 2010, 12:32 AM
I'm sorry but I just have to laugh at this one: "All I care about is the fact that they promised me a new replacement, I paid for a new unit, and I did not get new."

this sounds like a child who doesn't get to eat his dessert because he didn't eat his dinner.

I have to agree with this one.

But you need to be NICE. People are much more willing to work with you when you're not yelling at them.


Again, I have to agree. If i were to work in a call center for Apple I would not be happy. After reading this ENTIRE thread. (Yes Mosx i have read the entire thread.) I would not be in a position to help you. Why? It's because of how rude you are! The people on the other end of the phone line need to be treated with respect. Why would I want to help someone who thinks that i know nothing?

Something that you should know is that one you open a product it's technically used. Most Macbook Pros that come refurbished are really close to brand new. Why? It's because for whatever reason, they decided to return it and get a 15 inch. Apple now can't sell it as new because it's been open so they sell it refurbished.

When you used your iPod it was technically used. Apple sent you a refurbished product. Sounds fair to me. I know the Apple Store genius told you that you were getting new. I don't give a crap about that. If it a verbal agreement is valid in California, good for you. Go to court like you said. STOP COMPLAINING HERE! At least you got something back. Apple could of just left you with no iPod in the first place.

By the way you cherry pick what you want to respond to too.

mosx
Dec 3, 2010, 02:19 AM
Fry's is notorious for re-packaging returned non-working merchandise which is why I stopped shopping there a long long time ago.

Don't buy open box products. They're clearly labeled.

The agent should have never promised you a new product. Almost all tech companies will use refurbished products when replacing and repairing merchandise. It is bad financial business to not do so.

Don't care. Unlike Apple fans, I couldn't care less about the financial well being of a company. All I care about is me getting what I paid for.

Yes. you paid for a new iPod, you got what I'm assuming was a new iPod, however from you stating that there was no terms of service in the box is suspect. Every new ipod, iphone etc. comes with a fold-out booklet of information.

In box booklet doesn't equal on box warning.

However, as I said, Apple store employee promised new. In California, such a verbal promise overrides everything else.

But assume everything there was ok, well your iPod is seven weeks old, it is now a "used" iPod. So if you get a refurbished one with all new parts in it with the same warranty, what is the problem? what if the only qualification of the refurbished product was that someone bought it, opened the packaging without ever even opening the box, decided they didn't want it and returned it?

I wouldn't want a return either.

I paid for a new product. No refurbished. Seven weeks old isn't long enough to consider a toy like an iPod nano "heavily used". Especially when it spent most of that time unused collecting dust.

And, again, I paid for new. Not refurbished.

I don't care if giving out new replacements would hurt Apple's bottom line. Apple doesn't care about me beyond getting my money and I couldn't care less about the companies financial well being or profit margin. Unlike Apple fans, I know Apple is not my friend that I need to worry about. Apple, ironically, has become the guy in the 1984 ad. So all I care about is getting both what I paid for and what I was promised.

Isn't this still a new product? Well Apple will again test it, (no, not by just turning it on, it will go through a full battery of tests) and then send it to a store as a refurbished model although this is essentially a new product. This could easily be the one that you receive as "refurbished"

Don't care. I was promised new, I paid for new. I did NOT pay for refurbished.

I'm sorry but I just have to laugh at this one: "All I care about is the fact that they promised me a new replacement, I paid for a new unit, and I did not get new."

this sounds like a child who doesn't get to eat his dessert because he didn't eat his dinner.

If you say so buddy. I couldn't care less what you think.

It's the truth. I paid for new. Was promised new. Did not get new. Thats a bait and switch. It's against the law in many ways.

My mom bought a new Dell desktop, spent 3,000 on it with all the upgrades including their premium in-home service in case something went wrong.

Why on Earth would someone spend $3,000 on a computer? You say later in your post that you service systems. You could have built her one significantly better for even more significantly less.

Well she calls me up a couple of weeks later extremely upset. Her hard drive had died.

Could have happened on a Mac. Don't forget that Apple recently issued a recall for 2006-2007 MacBooks with faulty HDDs that were prone to failure.

So after hours on the phone with Dell with someone in a different country who didn't understand what she was saying or what the error message was, they send someone out. He shows up, replaces her drive, tries to take the bad drive that I wouldn't let him do (we will send it back to them later), starts just the Windows install and leaves half way through it.

Apple would have done the same thing. Except she would have had to take the computer into the store, or mail it in for repair, and they would have kept the HDD and never given it back.

Needless to say, the windows install didn't complete. She then had a bad drive, a $3,000 2 week old desktop she couldn't use and was out a lot of additional time and money dealing with this issue.

Why didn't it complete? For Windows 7 All you have to do is answer a couple of questions and wait. Then set a user name, password, and connect to your network. No different than an OS X install, really.

She then had to spend about 3,000 more for a restore of her data directly off of the hard drive and no Dell wouldn't pay for it.

Neither would Apple. I had a friend who was a diehard Mac fan recently turned PC owner. HDD died. One of those recalled MacBooks. Took it in for its third HDD replacement. Lost data. Apple wouldn't give back the drive until a manager was brought into the picture. After that the HDD was returned to the owner. Apple wouldn't pay for data recovery service either.

Moral of the story is that HDD failure can happen regardless of brand. Always back up your stuff. I'm sorry to say but its entirely your mom's fault for losing that data and having to pay for data recovery.

You can't go to dell, you can't go to HP or Sony, IBM (lenovo) and have them fix your product. You probably can't even call them for support and speak with anyone who really even understands what you're telling them. What do you do then?

Well, thankfully, you don't have to call those companies until something is actually wrong with the system.

And, thankfully again, I can build my own system. Family and friends can call me for support instead of any other companies. And I won't talk down to them or act like I know more than they do like the hipster Apple store employees.

However, with Apple, you can just go to your local store and have them repair it there, locally, in-house or in-the U.S.

Because everyone lives near an Apple store? I'm sorry, but driving an hour and taking your entire freaking computer with you is NOT convenient and it is not something I should have to do.

Call their support? Oh they're based in the U.S. also and can work with any issue you are having. But you need to be NICE. People are much more willing to work with you when you're not yelling at them.

I was extremely nice to Apple support until the rude "Executive Customer Relations" woman told me I was SOL in so many somewhat nicer words.

Me, before I had my first Apple product, built all my systems from the ground up and supported them. I never had any issues with them, they just took up a significant amount of time trying to install drivers, resolving compatibility issues, upgrading, changing, uninstalling, re-installing just to make things work. Again, I NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH IT. It is what I love to do.

Sounds like you were doing things wrong.

In all of the systems I've built for myself and for other people, there has NEVER been compatibility issues. There was no "trying to install drivers". Driver installs just worked. No uninstalling or reinstalling or anything like that. Thats user error.

Then I bought a Mac. I have multiple Apple systems now, desktops, laptops, time capsules, iPhones and iPads. I have NEVER had a problem with ANY of them at any point. This is one of the many reasons I buy their products.

Count yourself lucky then, especially on Time Capsules since they seem to die after 18 months. There was a recall for that too.

You WILL have a problem with a Mac at some point. Then you'll see how convenient the Apple store is when you have to haul your 30 pound desktop computer into the Apple Store and leave it there for days while it gets fixed.

I drive a Toyota, I have had 3 of them, Over 200,000 miles on each of them and no issues. Why should I get something else?

Because there are better cars? Especially ones that won't speed up and kill you.

My wife however, had a problem with her iPhone, she was nice to the support person, they said they would send her a new phone, they didn't. The refurb one had battery life issues within a week. She called back, was nice again. They assured her this time it would be a new phone. Surprise! It was!

Good for her. As I said, I was nice to Apple. Especially after I was promised a new product.

My suggestions to you If you feel that Apple has such an inferior product based on your continued complaints above, don't buy Apple again.

I won't. And I've already told my honest story to a lot of people. Thats had more of an impact than Apple just replacing my unit as they promised.

However, if you would like to resolve your iPod issue or even your other laptop battery warping problem, call them, ask to speak with a product specialist. If he or she doesn't satisfactorily resolve the problem, ask to speak with Customer Relations.

Haven't you been reading my posts? "Executive Customer Relations" told me I was out of luck. After I had been nice and polite multiple times.

(Yes Mosx i have read the entire thread.) I would not be in a position to help you. Why? It's because of how rude you are! The people on the other end of the phone line need to be treated with respect. Why would I want to help someone who thinks that i know nothing?

What makes you think I was rude on the phone? Or in person? If you had actually read the entire thread, you'd know I was far from rude. In fact, my polite, positive, and JOKING attitude didn't change until I was told that Apple's official response was that they would NOT replace my unit with a new one as promised under any circumstance.

Something that you should know is that one you open a product it's technically used. Most Macbook Pros that come refurbished are really close to brand new. Why? It's because for whatever reason, they decided to return it and get a 15 inch. Apple now can't sell it as new because it's been open so they sell it refurbished.

Doesn't matter. If someone chose to purchase a refurbished product then they get a refurb. I bought NEW.

When you used your iPod it was technically used. Apple sent you a refurbished product. Sounds fair to me.

Good for you. I have higher standards for you, especially when I pay more for a product than its worth..

Apple could of just left you with no iPod in the first place.

Actually, no they couldn't have. Under California State Law and Magnuson-Moss, since Apple had a warranty program in place, they are legally bound to act upon that warranty in a manner that satisfies the customer. And if they didn't have a warranty in place, with the product being so new, I could still sue them anyway. Magnuson-Moss and California's laws exist because of things like that.


You know what the best part is? Every single day I have multiple people asking me about the iPod nano. I tell them what happened to me. The 100% honest truth with no slandering, no embellishment, nothing like that. Everything I say is the 100% honest truth and, as a result, 100% legal. Every single person I tell my story to says the same thing. "Wow, they should have given you a new one even if they didn't promise it. You bought a new one, you should get a new one". Then they proceed to lose interest in Apple products.

Voondebah
Dec 3, 2010, 10:04 AM
mosx, I think. you need to calm down and realize that your reasons for not wanting to deal with Apple products don't apply to everyone. A lot of us haven't had issues with warranty service, nor many hardware problems at all. I've only had one issue, a hard drive fail, over 5. years and 6 apple devices. It was fixed at my local apple store in 2 days.

So why you may not like apple service and dont live close to an apple store, there are a lot of people have different situations. You've managed to make enough reasons for yourself, but they are not universal to everyone.

And you have mentioned how you can do anything in Windows that you can do in OSX. I dn't think that's why people really want OSX - heck, i understood using OSX meant that I would be able to do some things less! The point is not what it can do, but how it does it! I really like the integrated features lik spotlight, spaces, and hot corners, and more. I like front row and my apple remote. Yes, you can get similar features in windows, but they tend to be 3rd party and can carry they're own price. OSX has been very stable for me and it's interface elements have increased my productivity. I can also reliably run Windows 7 in a virtual machine, so I can make up for software compatibility issues for my work.

Your experience does not change what mine has been.

P.S., i. really love how I can scroll windows that are out of focus on the mac! I always hated having to switch the focus in Windows to do this - always became a hassle when using a laptop with limited screen space. Get the apps overlayed just the right way to see everything, and then would have to scroll an out focus app, then have to get the windows layered correctly again. Arg!

P.P.S.

Ooh, i forgot about growl notifications! So sweet! And free :D

bayareastudent
Dec 3, 2010, 10:32 AM
"I paid for a new product. No refurbished. Seven weeks old isn't long enough to consider a toy like an iPod nano "heavily used". Especially when it spent most of that time unused collecting dust. "

once you opened your box, it's not new. You returned it "used". 1 day or 7 weeks, its used. How about I buy a car from you, come back 7 weeks later, demand a new car from you. "it's barely used." let's just trade. With cars you can obviously tell the mileage, could be only 150miles driven or 10,000 miles driven, over the roughest terrain or just cruising in neighborhood, how would you know? Obviously you brought back a broken ipod. How would they know what happened to it? Obviously the genius bar guys have seen this problem before because there are just as many brutes out there like you who have a fat hand and crush everything they own, but they are nice enough to appease to you brutes by giving you free replacements.

polaris20
Dec 3, 2010, 12:38 PM
I couldn't care less what Apple can or cannot do with the defective unit. I only care about the fact that I paid for new, I was promised new, and I did not get new.

You weren't promised a new unit from Apple upon defect. The warranty promises to fix the unit with new or refurbished parts, provide a new unit, or a refurbished one at Apple's discretion.

So as I said, I couldn't care less about what Apple can do with that old unit. All I care about is the fact that they promised me a new replacement, I paid for a new unit, and I did not get new.

You weren't promised a new new unit from Apple.

Apple's STORE policies don't apply to me because I didn't purchase it there. On top of that, Apple's warranty policies are not presented prior to purchase or use of the unit.

Wrong. If the warranty is so important to you, use your brain and Google it.

http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/

First hit on Google for "Apple warranty". See second paragraph. Both Dell and HP have similar policies in regards to repair on their hardware. I've even received refurbished RAID cards and RAM for Poweredge servers. Guess what? They work.

You claim to have read the warranty, yet are somehow arrogant enough to think it doesn't apply to you. The fact of the matter is that the warranty is freely available on the internet prior to the purchase of the unit. If you do not like the terms, don't buy it. No company I've ever seen puts the entire warranty on the box. Don't be ridiculous.

Third, I was promised by a store employee that I would be getting a new unit. That overrides all policies, as verbal contracts in the state of California hold just as much water as written.

Good luck with that. Go ahead and spend a lot of money in legal fees over a $150 device just because you're acting like an angry, spoiled child. Here, let me help with the outcome:

Mosx: "He promised me a new unit".
Employee: "No I didn't".

Same old tired argument that never works.

You're absolutely right. It doesn't work, because you just don't get it and likely never will. You apparently have some sort of cognitive defect that prevents you from having the ability to discern fact vs. opinion. You also continue to think that your extremely limited experience and anecdotal evidence is somehow more important than everyone else's, which I can't decide is arrogant or just plain insane.

I have yet to see someone arguing against me who is right ;)

As you've been told countless times before, telling yourself that you're right doesn't make it so. I can tell myself I'm 6'2, but alas remain 5'7. At least I'm still good looking. ;)

And I'm here so people know what Apple is really like.

No, you're here to troll. No one could possibly care what experiences you've had with Apple products or their service because you're so positively arrogant and disagreeable to deal with, it's no wonder you received bad service. If you're like this in person, I'd be surprised to hear that you can even hold down a job for more than 90 days.

Yup. And they replaced it. And the system I ended up with is now over 3 years old. I never had to send it in for warranty service. However, every single Mac I've ever owned has to be sent out for warranty service and the battery in the one I have now swelled up. Despite that being a known defect and a fire hazard, Apple tells everyone it happens to that does not have AppleCare to pound sand.

More anecdotal evidence that really means nothing.

That was true then. For the first system. Isn't true now. Besides, when you get a new Mac, you have to reinstall OS X to get rid of the several gigabytes worth of printer drivers and language translations that come with the system. Then you have to download several gigabytes worth of OS updates because the concept of small patches seems to allude Apple for all of their devices. Why patch it when you can force a whole OS download?

It must be rough to be on dial-up.

I'd be better off with my own personally built system. I'm not buying any more systems that I don't build myself. I absolutely NEVER had issues with computers until I started buying systems that I did not build myself. Theres computers I built more than 10 years ago that are still in service and still running flawlessly on the original hardware.

Me too. Do you want a cookie? I've got 500Mhz-1Ghz machines running FTP servers, firewalls, DNS servers, etc. Doesn't make me special, nor does it make you special.

You know Mosx, the funny thing is that I'd actually sympathize with you if you weren't so abrasive. But as everyone else in this thread has seen, you never change.


You know what the best part is? Every single day I have multiple people asking me about the iPod nano. I tell them what happened to me. The 100% honest truth with no slandering, no embellishment, nothing like that. Everything I say is the 100% honest truth and, as a result, 100% legal. Every single person I tell my story to says the same thing. "Wow, they should have given you a new one even if they didn't promise it. You bought a new one, you should get a new one". Then they proceed to lose interest in Apple products.

Wow, we should get you a cape or something. I know you're my hero. :D It's like you're Superman, and Steve Jobs is Lex Luthor.

Ride9650
Dec 3, 2010, 01:59 PM
mosx, I feel for ya, I really do. I can agree with you that Apple's quality has, as of late, been slipping here and there. However, I really think you're being childish about this. Grow up!


... Apple's warranty policies are not presented prior to purchase or use of the unit.

I thought I'd point out an interesting point on this, since it relates to the Magnuson-Moss act you keep referring to.

According to the FTC "First, the Act does not require any business to provide a written warranty."
(http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus01-businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law#Magnuson-Moss)


Also I noticed this interesting tid bit since you keep saying that verbal agreements are as good as written ones. Apparently verbal agreements don't count under this act:

"Second, the Act does not apply to oral warranties. Only written warranties are covered."

This should have been obvious. Without something written down, it just turns into a pissing match of he-said/she-said as polaris pointed out

So whoever told you you had a case with this is mistaken.


Funny, because there was another woman in there having an issue with a previous generation iPod and they gave her a packaged new unit.

BUT... you don't know the circumstances surrounding that replacement. She could have just as easily had 2 prior replacements already, or maybe she had the support of customer relations, who knows? Just because she got a brand new ipod does not entitle you to a new one as well.


With the Mac, I had believed the hype. I didn't see that the hype was just that, hype, until the return window had closed and I was stuck with the system.
I thought this was interesting. For someone that touts specs as the most important aspect of a computer, why did you fall for the hype anyways? You went into the purchase knowing full well about the limited upgrades you were going to make. You sound intelligent enough to use google, why didn't you do a little research first as most people would with a substantial purchase?

Good for you. I have 1.67GB of RAM free out of 4GB on my Mac right now. Safari is eating 362MB of RAM even though I only have one tab open! Talk about memory leaks. iTunes is at 186.7MB. Other than those I have Adium with a couple of chat windows open and Mail. Thats it.

Why are you still using your Mac if you dislike it so much?


Because everyone lives near an Apple store? I'm sorry, but driving an hour and taking your entire freaking computer with you is NOT convenient and it is not something I should have to do.


Lastly, I have to ask, why didn't you just go back to the same store later on, and talk with the same genius instead of sending it in? I don't imagine it's that hard to figure out who was helping you, and just come back in another time when he/she was working and swap it out then. Sure you're not super close to a Apple Store, but as you said it yourself earlier, you barely use the thing, so whats the rush?

Also, there are plenty of Authorized Service providers you could take a Mac to as well.

ZipZilla
Dec 3, 2010, 08:34 PM
you didn't give them a new unit, you didn't get a new unit back.

there's nothing wrong with refurbs. fail.

wordoflife
Dec 3, 2010, 08:39 PM
So Apple just gave me a free, brand new, replacement Macbook Pro.

they told me they would fix my issues, but they didn't ... except I didn't act like a completely jerk, and I walked out with a New macbook Pro

Indy500fan1977
Dec 3, 2010, 08:41 PM
With everything being said in this thread, has mosx's experience swayed anyone's opinion on purchasing another Apple product in the future? I am being 100% sincere and not trying to be snarky. Personally speaking, it hasn't affected my decision in purchasing a new product in the next few weeks. Yeah, it sucks b@lls that he was 'promised' one thing and didn't get the said promise, but life goes on.

santaliqueur
Dec 4, 2010, 12:19 AM
Because there are better cars? Especially ones that won't speed up and kill you.

THIS statement says so much. Every Toyota speeds up and kills people, right?

Since no company is perfect and will fail at something at some point, this guy will come along and blow it way out of proportion. And. Will. Not. Stop.

With everything being said in this thread, has mosx's experience swayed anyone's opinion on purchasing another Apple product in the future? I am being 100% sincere and not trying to be snarky. Personally speaking, it hasn't affected my decision in purchasing a new product in the next few weeks. Yeah, it sucks b@lls that he was 'promised' one thing and didn't get the said promise, but life goes on.

In fact, I will convince MORE people to convert to Mac because of mosx's posts. :) I encourage all of you to do the same.

The funny thing is, instead of taking the time to respond to every little post of ours, if he took that time to work, he could have bought himself a new nano, or whatever it is he's complaining about. I lost track long ago.

polaris20
Dec 4, 2010, 07:35 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

With everything being said in this thread, has mosx's experience swayed anyone's opinion on purchasing another Apple product in the future? I am being 100% sincere and not trying to be snarky. Personally speaking, it hasn't affected my decision in purchasing a new product in the next few weeks. Yeah, it sucks b@lls that he was 'promised' one thing and didn't get the said promise, but life goes on.

In fact, I will convince MORE people to convert to Mac because of mosx's posts. :) I encourage all of you to do the same.

The funny thing is, instead of taking the time to respond to every little post of ours, if he took that time to work, he could have bought himself a new nano, or whatever it is he's complaining about. I lost track long ago.

It would be more productive if people tired of his tirades complain to the moderation staff. People like him hurt the community. He's neither productive, helpful, or pleasant to deal with.
He'll be back to do another mega-quote, because like a moth to flame he can't resist. But it'll be the same rehashed crap as before.

gnasher729
Dec 4, 2010, 11:53 AM
Good luck with that. Go ahead and spend a lot of money in legal fees over a $150 device just because you're acting like an angry, spoiled child. Here, let me help with the outcome:

Mosx: "He promised me a new unit".
Employee: "No I didn't".

Small addition: If an Apple employee causes you damage while acting as an Apple employee, then Apple is responsible. However, even if the employee promised a new iPod which he shouldn't have promised, and didn't keep that promise, the buyer is not damaged, since he didn't have a right to the new iPod in the first place.

So even if there were witnesses that a new unit was promised, this would be a very, very difficult case to win.

galstaph
Dec 5, 2010, 02:45 PM
Well I have thought of the solution for mosx!
Take you're [used POS attempt at a replacement from apple] ipod to walmart (there must be one near you), say it was a gift you just got and you have no reciept and you want to return it. They will credit you full retail price with a walmart gift card (standard practice for return without receipt) and you can then go and buy a zune or whatever you want (tires, lube, groceries, clothing even)!
problem solved and you stop whining about your unfair, unethical and draconian treatment at the hands of apple computer inc.
OR take that gift card and buy a few 'choice' household cleaners and build your own homemade vengeance letter bo... ahem, I mean, 'written response' about your displeasure addressed to: Steve Jobs, C/O Apple Computer, Inc. 1 Infinite Loop Cupertino, CA 95014, please do let us know how that works out for you...

BTW, I just checked, and I can't believe it, my sony vaio did not have a EULA printed on the box:eek: I had to turn it on to be able to accept it! The warranty terms were not listed either.... same for my Windows 7 DVD, my Snow Leopard DVD, my Mac Pro, my macbook pro, or my Blackberry..... Dang maybe I should sue because they are forcing me to turn things on/open them before I can decide to accept or not, that is so unfair I could just kill them! I mean I have to open the cd to accept the terms and then I can't even return it because it is opened... and my blackberry geez, my service provider only covered returns for defect for 15 days or 15 minutes! after that I have to deal with RIM.

Seems everyone is out to screw me.... maybe I should just run off and join the Amish, they won't lie to me and make me accept the evil ways of consumerist corporations, plus they'll take me at my word and be trustworthy and I get to wear one of those awesome black hats!... [/sarcasm]

polaris20
Dec 5, 2010, 04:09 PM
Well I have thought of the solution for mosx!
Take you're [used POS attempt at a replacement from apple] ipod to walmart (there must be one near you), say it was a gift you just got and you have no reciept and you want to return it. They will credit you full retail price with a walmart gift card (standard practice for return without receipt) and you can then go and buy a zune or whatever you want (tires, lube, groceries, clothing even)!
problem solved and you stop whining about your unfair, unethical and draconian treatment at the hands of apple computer inc.
OR take that gift card and buy a few 'choice' household cleaners and build your own homemade vengeance letter bo... ahem, I mean, 'written response' about your displeasure addressed to: Steve Jobs, C/O Apple Computer, Inc. 1 Infinite Loop Cupertino, CA 95014, please do let us know how that works out for you...

BTW, I just checked, and I can't believe it, my sony vaio did not have a EULA printed on the box:eek: I had to turn it on to be able to accept it! The warranty terms were not listed either.... same for my Windows 7 DVD, my Snow Leopard DVD, my Mac Pro, my macbook pro, or my Blackberry..... Dang maybe I should sue because they are forcing me to turn things on/open them before I can decide to accept or not, that is so unfair I could just kill them! I mean I have to open the cd to accept the terms and then I can't even return it because it is opened... and my blackberry geez, my service provider only covered returns for defect for 15 days or 15 minutes! after that I have to deal with RIM.

Seems everyone is out to screw me.... maybe I should just run off and join the Amish, they won't lie to me and make me accept the evil ways of consumerist corporations, plus they'll take me at my word and be trustworthy and I get to wear one of those awesome black hats!... [/sarcasm]

None of the hundreds of Thinkpads, servers, workstations, etc come with the warranty terms on the box either, but somehow we're able to use Google and find what we're looking for, if we're that concerned. Because they are there, easy to find on the company's site for all to see.

galstaph
Dec 5, 2010, 06:32 PM
None of the hundreds of Thinkpads, servers, workstations, etc come with the warranty terms on the box either, but somehow we're able to use Google and find what we're looking for, if we're that concerned. Because they are there, easy to find on the company's site for all to see.
Well we all know mosx couldn't do that because apple sold him a faulty computer;)

Chip NoVaMac
Dec 5, 2010, 11:22 PM
Warranty replacements are usually done with what Apple calls "service" units. These are technically new. You never get a retail version from a warranty service. In this case, your were misinformed, but that's how Apple replaces defective units.

Other than that, may I ask the point of this thread? Just to rant?

Is this so with engraved units?

santaliqueur
Dec 6, 2010, 12:56 AM
Well I have thought of the solution for mosx!
Take you're [used POS attempt at a replacement from apple] ipod to walmart (there must be one near you), say it was a gift you just got and you have no reciept and you want to return it. They will credit you full retail price with a walmart gift card (standard practice for return without receipt) and you can then go and buy a zune or whatever you want (tires, lube, groceries, clothing even)!
problem solved and you stop whining about your unfair, unethical and draconian treatment at the hands of apple computer inc.
OR take that gift card and buy a few 'choice' household cleaners and build your own homemade vengeance letter bo... ahem, I mean, 'written response' about your displeasure addressed to: Steve Jobs, C/O Apple Computer, Inc. 1 Infinite Loop Cupertino, CA 95014, please do let us know how that works out for you...

BTW, I just checked, and I can't believe it, my sony vaio did not have a EULA printed on the box:eek: I had to turn it on to be able to accept it! The warranty terms were not listed either.... same for my Windows 7 DVD, my Snow Leopard DVD, my Mac Pro, my macbook pro, or my Blackberry..... Dang maybe I should sue because they are forcing me to turn things on/open them before I can decide to accept or not, that is so unfair I could just kill them! I mean I have to open the cd to accept the terms and then I can't even return it because it is opened... and my blackberry geez, my service provider only covered returns for defect for 15 days or 15 minutes! after that I have to deal with RIM.

Seems everyone is out to screw me.... maybe I should just run off and join the Amish, they won't lie to me and make me accept the evil ways of consumerist corporations, plus they'll take me at my word and be trustworthy and I get to wear one of those awesome black hats!... [/sarcasm]

He will probably claim that is unethical. He has eliminated every avenue for him to sell his Apple products, because he likes them, though he's not telling us. If someone REALLY wants to sell something, they will. Nobody is stuck with anything if they don't want it. Just put it on Craigslist and meet someone at the mall, and have them bring cash. I sold my entire camera kit for $8,000 at the food court at the mall.

He could sell everything he has, but he CHOOSES not to.

polaris20
Dec 6, 2010, 07:36 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Well I have thought of the solution for mosx!
Take you're [used POS attempt at a replacement from apple] ipod to walmart (there must be one near you), say it was a gift you just got and you have no reciept and you want to return it. They will credit you full retail price with a walmart gift card (standard practice for return without receipt) and you can then go and buy a zune or whatever you want (tires, lube, groceries, clothing even)!
problem solved and you stop whining about your unfair, unethical and draconian treatment at the hands of apple computer inc.
OR take that gift card and buy a few 'choice' household cleaners and build your own homemade vengeance letter bo... ahem, I mean, 'written response' about your displeasure addressed to: Steve Jobs, C/O Apple Computer, Inc. 1 Infinite Loop Cupertino, CA 95014, please do let us know how that works out for you...

BTW, I just checked, and I can't believe it, my sony vaio did not have a EULA printed on the box:eek: I had to turn it on to be able to accept it! The warranty terms were not listed either.... same for my Windows 7 DVD, my Snow Leopard DVD, my Mac Pro, my macbook pro, or my Blackberry..... Dang maybe I should sue because they are forcing me to turn things on/open them before I can decide to accept or not, that is so unfair I could just kill them! I mean I have to open the cd to accept the terms and then I can't even return it because it is opened... and my blackberry geez, my service provider only covered returns for defect for 15 days or 15 minutes! after that I have to deal with RIM.

Seems everyone is out to screw me.... maybe I should just run off and join the Amish, they won't lie to me and make me accept the evil ways of consumerist corporations, plus they'll take me at my word and be trustworthy and I get to wear one of those awesome black hats!... [/sarcasm]

He will probably claim that is unethical. He has eliminated every avenue for him to sell his Apple products, because he likes them, though he's not telling us. If someone REALLY wants to sell something, they will. Nobody is stuck with anything if they don't want it. Just put it on Craigslist and meet someone at the mall, and have them bring cash. I sold my entire camera kit for $8,000 at the food court at the mall.

He could sell everything he has, but he CHOOSES not to.

Yeah, there's really no excuse. I've sold a $4000 guitar to a guy in Florida through eBay, a $2000 guitar to someone in Canada, a MIDI controller to Australia, and a $900 speaker cab to someone locally via Craigslist, meeting up halfway at a gas station. All in all, I've shipped all over the world, and yet to have an issue.

finalcut
Dec 6, 2010, 09:28 AM
Actually, I would say most people feel they don't get what they pay for with Apple products. Thats why worldwide Mac market share is still very low single digits.


hm no sorry, I am not in that most people rank.

You should close that case with Apple itself or/and sue them if it's not enough for you, period

bayareastudent
Dec 6, 2010, 01:42 PM
mosx will refuse to respond for these reasons:

1. Realize that he's wrong about Magnuson-Moss Act and Verbal Binding Contracts and is too embarassed to post a reply.

2. Ran out of creative rants.

Although, he may just reply after all and he will most likely say:

1. I don't have time to monitor these forums and reply due to busy schedule, even though he probably spent hours posting his rants.

2. Tell people to get a life and stop spending time on online forums.

polaris20
Dec 6, 2010, 02:32 PM
mosx will refuse to respond for these reasons:

1. Realize that he's wrong about Magnuson-Moss Act and Verbal Binding Contracts and is too embarassed to post a reply.

He will reply, but sometimes it takes him a month, in order for him to get the last word. He's done that before, which is pretty funny. Like a child, getting the last word is important to him.

2. Ran out of creative rants.

I can be fairly certain that happened a long, long time ago.

Although, he may just reply after all and he will most likely say:

1. I don't have time to monitor these forums and reply due to busy schedule, even though he probably spent hours posting his rants.

2. Tell people to get a life and stop spending time on online forums.

Ding ding! Too busy to monitor forums, except when it's time to post multi-quote posts of doom. Hypocritical, at best.

galstaph
Dec 6, 2010, 03:04 PM
mosx will refuse to respond for these reasons:

1. Realize that he's wrong about Magnuson-Moss Act and Verbal Binding Contracts and is too embarassed to post a reply.
Oh no he's not wrong! he told me when I pointed out his flawed logic (that the warrany was in fact honoured as per apple's warranty terms) that he had lots of experience with this type of law and his lawyer said he can sue. (so what do you think, did he use an online lawyer consulting service?)

2. Ran out of creative rants.where were they to begin with? I just thought his rant logic was that we are all wrong and he is right; I bet he even has a witness to confirm that we are wrong as well;)

Although, he may just reply after all and he will most likely say:

1. I don't have time to monitor these forums and reply due to busy schedule, even though he probably spent hours posting his rants.

2. Tell people to get a life and stop spending time on online forums.lol I bet he'll say something like he was too busy for sure, then he'll go off about how he is an IT/computer god and knows more about everything than we do and that he's already hacked into all our worthless macs and setup a virus to break them so we have to take them into apple for service and then get screwed out of a new machine like him... *diabolical laugh*

Then again, maybe he just cannot come up with a good rebuttal anymore other than, "you didn't read my post" or "you obviously don't know what you're talking about" or "I already sold all my apple stuff [except my ipods, ipad, iphone, lol], I just want to tell people the truth about apple" or my personal favorite "under the Magnuson-Moss Act and Verbal Binding Contracts law I can sue, because apple screwed me by not honouring the employee's verbal promise to give me a new ipod for my old broken one"... so if we miss him enough we can simply take apart people's posts and use these retorts or mix up the wording a bit to give some variety:D